patrick.net

Feux Follets says

mell says

I'd rather see free speech and metal detectors / security guards on Universities than no security and free speech restrictions

“I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”

Me too. How is guarding public venues more unconstitutional than taking away the basic rights to own guns? It isn't.

Feux Follets says

mell says

How is guarding public venues more unconstitutional than taking away the basic rights to own guns?

Your right to bear arms may interfere with my right to live in a country free from armed security at every turn of the corner, but please - do so answer the question.

"Accept the casualties, live in a police state with armed guards at every turn and have more freedom" ?

I'm pressed for time right now but I can check back later. Hopping from foot to foot in anticipation of this one.

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion. It is not at every turn of the corner, just at mass gatherings which unfortunately are targets. I don't mind walking through security in public buildings, why do you mind? As long as I can have privacy in my home and remote nature it's all good.

Feux Follets says

mell says

without rough fatherly influence

How does that work then when someone turns into a looney tunes and shoots up everything insight and we find out he had one of those hero type rough fathers who used to put the fear of god and every other known entity in the kid ?

Great.

Please point out which one of the past mass murders had a father like that in his life at the time of the shooting.

We'll be waiting.

mell says

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion.

I have lived in or visited for prolonged periods of time (months) many countries - Canada, EU (both west and east), Japan. Among all these countries, the US is the least safe and people have the least personal freedoms. Taking away your guns is your least problem.

DryMap says

mell says

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion.

I have lived in or visited for prolonged periods of time (months) many countries - Canada, EU (both west and east), Japan. Among all these countries, the US is the least safe and people have the least personal freedoms. Taking away your guns is your least problem.

Actually I have lived in the EU as well and your observation seems quite biased. Wrt free speech the US beats the EU hands down where you can get prosecuted for free speech quite easily, same for Canada. Also safety in the US depends heavily on the state, city and hood, same for Europe. No difference really,

One only needs to check the size of the prizon population and the number of police killings to know which country is a police country. And unsafe.

That’s actually very accurate

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

None of these so called FREE!dom indexes measure access to ordnance. In the states, someone somewhere will sell you belt-fed guns to ensure no one fucks with your rights to personal security and mayhem making.

FP says

One only needs to check the size of the prizon population and the number of police killings to know which country is a police country. And unsafe.

One of the main reasons for high incarceration rates are the drug laws. Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe (esp. publicly) in drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, MJ etc.) or drive with an open can of beer in your cup-holder then the US - a nation founded by puritans - is certainly more restrictive. This is going to change significantly though as MJ becomes legal and we will see incarceration rates go down.

jvolstad says

I would have taken out that shooter. Good target practice.



(I am in the upper left-hand corner)

No mustache like Goose in bottom right corner?

I'm simultaneously proud and disappointed in you.

Update: it is now FOUR (4) Broward County Deputies that hung out while the shooting was in Progress.

Let's celebrate instead the Coral Springs Police who got 130 officers to the scene within minutes, probably every last cop they had, and stormed the place.

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

Feux Follets says

anon_cf6c6 says

Please point out which one of the past mass murders had a father like that in his life at the time of the shooting.

We'll be waiting.

Protocol and social etiquette prevents me from answering until I have let other questions previously asked and ignored get answered.

Translation: I got nothing to support the fake liberal narrative and lies being promoted.

Did certain "powers that be" turn a blind eye to this massacre knowing the political implications (i.e., gun control) of such an outcome?

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

Somebody gets it

mell says

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

What are you talking about, imbibing restrictions?

It’s sad that it’s a even a discussion about which other country are more known for Freedom than America

errc says

mell says

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

What are you talking about, imbibing restrictions?

It’s sad that it’s a even a discussion about which other country are more known for Freedom than America

Not at all. Freedom of speech is amongst the best in the US. Also in many European countries you can get sued and ordered to change if your neighbor doesn't want the new color or design, of your house wall, if you have a bathroom airing out to the side etc. Or try running a business elsewhere, think bureaucracy is bad here? Think again. Can't get incorporated faster anywhere else. Some countries prohibit you to even carry a simply knife for self-defense. You can get prison time for extreme opinions solely etc etc. I'd like to be able to have a beer while driving as long as I don't go over the limit, so that I would like to see changed. Even weed laws are still stricter in some European countries than in the US. And you can get admitted to the mental ward against your will quite rapidly (which may not be a bad thing in certain cases), not in the US though. Abortion is illegal in many other countries, and gay marriage. Where do you not feel free (except for the drug laws) here?

That's life.
Welcome to the human race...
jazz_music says

THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH ENFORCEMENT TO MAKE oppressed classes of people NOT REACT to their plight en masse.

jazz_music says

Whole neighborhoods unite to try to overcome these "enforcement" scams.

They come up with "Black Lives Matter" to highlight the wasted lives they experience either by death or imprisonment only to be rubuked by "Blue Lives Matter" as if blue lives, or all lives, have anything to worry about. --except eclipsing the original statement on the part of oppressed classes of people.

Your own life becomes more unsafe the more those around you keep getting systematically shafted. Liberals think about things like that.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH ENFORCEMENT TO MAKE oppressed classes of people NOT REACT to their plight en masse.

Dude, it’s a small price to pay to save us from the Communist Socialists and Hilary Clinton!

jazz_music says

They come up with "Black Lives Matter" to highlight the wasted lives they experience either by death or imprisonment only to be rubuked by "Blue Lives Matter" as if blue lives, or all lives, have anything to worry about. --except eclipsing the original statement on the part of oppressed classes of people.

Black Lives Matter is bullshit because far, far, far, far more Blacks are killed by Other Blacks than police officers. Welfare Hos Jill Off watching their Thugs gun each other down.

jazz_music says

especially the undercover nazi skin head types that use the job as carte blanche

Provide one example. When you can't, let's all admit this is a leftist fantasy. It is a lie fed to you by CNN so that you feel superior to anyone who disagrees w you, w/o ever actually listening to their opinions. It's brainwashing so that you shut your brain off, and it appears to be working beautifully.

jazz_music says

Their opposition actually makes concessions to BLM

Who? What?

mell says

Not at all. Freedom of speech is amongst the best in the US. Also in many European countries you can get sued and ordered to change if your neighbor doesn't want the new color or design, of your house wall, if you have a bathroom airing out to the side etc. Or try running a business elsewhere, think bureaucracy is bad here? Think again. Can't get incorporated faster anywhere else. Some countries prohibit you to even carry a simply knife for self-defense. You can get prison time for extreme opinions solely etc etc. I'd like to be able to have a beer while driving as long as I don't go over the limit, so that I would like to see changed. Even weed laws are still stricter in some European countries than in the US. And you can get admitted to the mental ward against your will quite rapidly (which may not be a bad thing in certain cases), not in the US though. Abortion is illegal in many other countries, and gay marriage. Where do you not feel free (except for the drug laws) here?

Pure garbage. I've lived overseas for years in a number of different countries. Not a week in Paris now I know all about France. ,Like moved there, gotten bank accounts, bought or rented, got Dl etc. You can find individual examples of specific items country by country. Oh yes this country does this or that country does that. But America is not the shining beacon of individual freedoms or rights that you have been brainwashed to believe. It's actually a pretty good example of a the boiling frog. Losing rights little by little without noticing. The phrase land of the free has become a bit of a running joke around the world.

Go ahead, make your case.

How many first world countries can your neighbor sue and force you to change your house (you've obviously never lived with an HOA or historic district commision).

Tell me how bad the bureaucracy for business is in Ireland, Norway, or Singapore or even the UK compared to CA or NY. The US is ranked 8th in the world for ease of doing business.

How many first world countries can you be jailed for extreme opinions? You mean like this? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution That kind of freedom of speech?

Fastest to incorporate? NZ,Hong Kong, Singapore, UK, Ireland, Denmark are all just as fast. Plus they actually do due diligence. The US is one of the best and easiest countries to set up an anonymous corporation (provided you aren't a US citizen) or to set up a bank account. Which is why so much dirty money is laundered through the US. International criminals love the security of having their dirty money in the US.

Weed? Very few first world countries have stricter laws than the US. Decriminalized stares are still subject to federal law. Some of the more sensible ones like Portugal and Switzerland are decriminalized all drugs and use the money they spent on enforcement for treatment. Very successfully. The US has the highest prison rate for drugs pretty much anywhere..

What countries can you be committed "quite rapidly"? All that i know of require going through the court system. There are any number of states where you can be committed just as rapidly. The only european countries that ban abortion outright are Ireland, Malta, Poland, and San Marino. There are a number of states where abortion is effectively banned. Only the eastern europe former soviet block countries prohibit gay marriage. There were 14 states that banned gay marriage until the supreme court knocked it down in 2015.

https://www.theroot.com/is-racist-law-enforcement-hunting-black-people-1821393072

"The most chilling part of the entire interview, however, was when Picciolini said this:
You know 30 years ago, we were skinheads. We wore swastikas and shaved heads, and you could identify us pretty easily. So we decided at that time to grow our hair out, to trade in our boots for suits, and we encouraged people to get jobs in law enforcement, to go to the military and get training and to recruit there.

Repeat last line: “We encouraged people to get jobs in law enforcement, to go to the military and get training and to recruit there.” Shoot and recruit. Sounds about Nazi."

CBOEtrader says

jazz_music says

especially the undercover nazi skin head types that use the job as carte blanche

Provide one example. When you can't, let's all admit this is a leftist fantasy. It is a lie fed to you by CNN so that you feel superior to anyone who disagrees w you, w/o ever actually listening to their opinions. It's brainwashing so that you shut your brain off, and it appears to be working beautifully.

To me it sounds like jazz is talking about agent provocateurs

http://www.offthegridnews.com/self-defense/how-to-identify-an-agent-provocateur/

there are examples in that article. I guess we all have to admit it's not a leftist fantasy.

Well, one thing the Broward Cowards Proved:

You can't "just call the police"

But he was following protocol! Don't you people know protocol is GOD!?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Well, one thing the Broward Cowards Proved:

You can't "just call the police"

Do you think any internet chat forum mods would have been braver and rushed in and stopped the shooter? Lol lmao

bob2356 says

How many first world countries can you be jailed for extreme opinions? You mean like this? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution That kind of freedom of speech?

WTF? He made a violent threat! Of course he should be prosecuted. Freedom of speech means you can have any opinion and talk about it except for making violent threats or encouraging others to engage in violence against others. Period. Freedom of speech is def. most protected in the US.

bob2356 says

Tell me how bad the bureaucracy for business is in Ireland, Norway, or Singapore or even the UK compared to CA or NY. The US is ranked 8th in the world for ease of doing business.

That's a great ranking.


All the other stuff you're listing is roughly on par, give or take.bob2356 says

How many first world countries can your neighbor sue and force you to change your house (you've obviously never lived with an HOA or historic district commision).

HOAs are very common in Germany and you can get kicked out or fined for less. If you want total freedom, buy a free-standing home and even then you have more rules than in the US to follow.

All the other stuff is roughly on par. Nobody said it's a shining beacon but it compares pretty well.

I've noticed a difference between my kids and myself when I was a kid. They have grown up in the US and are very timid, always expecting/assuming that things are not allowed. I don't think this a generational issue, it's rather cultural.

Not surprising given that they are not even allowed to run in the school yard. Similarly, I am not allowed even to move my desk on my own at work.

A couple of months ago a few friends and I decided to play some soccer after dark, in the basketball court in the park. We brought some lights. Houses are far away, we were not noisy. Nevertheless, 15 min later a cop came and stopped the game; somebody had called to report us.

Last summer, on a Greek island, taking my kids to a secluded beach. To get to the beach, have to go down a very steep, sleepery path. Quite scary but fun. One has to hold on to a rope. Down at the beach, a few couples, some half or fully naked. We started swimming, from the shore, around the rocks, into the next cove, and so on, and so on, exploring caves, resting on rocks, for several hours. Kids keep asking me: "is thIs allowed? Is this allowed?"

The next day hired a boat. The "captan" took us to the other side of the island dropped the anchor 100m from shore and said :"here's a good place, jump and swim." No life jackets, no signing wavers, hell, he didn't even ask us if we can swim.

"Are we allowed to leave our kids home alone." "Are they allowed to travel alone on the bus, train, taxi, whatever?" "Are they allowed to play unsupervised in the park?" "Is it safe?"

These are all questions that we have been asking ourselves at one time or another in the US. But never in our home countries or other places where we have lived. My 10 year old spending the afternoon alone on the beach? No problem. 12 year going alone with friends on the train in Tokyo? No problem. Using public transportation alone in a EU capital? Sure.

I can go on and on with examples.

Folks wanting to cary weapons for "personal defense?" Only in the US! Well, maybe in Afghanistan too.

Trump says he would have rushed in unarmed and stopped the shooter himself

Seriously, he actually said that while criticizing the police. Trump and his Republican Governors are so brave!

FP says

Folks wanting to cary weapons for "personal defense?" Only in the US! Well, maybe in Afghanistan too.

In Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Geogia, Germany, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, and Serbia all have systems to allow private citizens to get a carry permit, some are harder to get than others.

Our neighbors to the north, Canada, you can get a permit to carry if you show cause.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, possibly other middle eastern countries also allow firearms for citizens and certain classes of foreigners.

Don't forget Israel.

anon_cf6c6 says

In Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Geogia, Germany, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, and Serbia all have systems to allow private citizens to get a carry permit, some are harder to get than others.

1) System there is is very different than the US.

2) I don't know of regular folks there carrying of feeling the need to carry, or even having at home weapons (only actual hunters). Policemen are too less weapojized compared to the US.

3) what is your point?

FP says

what is your point?

Are people's lives worth less in Europe than here?

anon_cf6c6 says

FP says

what is your point?

Are people's lives worth less in Europe than here?

What??

FP says

anon_cf6c6 says

FP says

what is your point?

Are people's lives worth less in Europe than here?

What??

Exactly,

The fear of guns blocks the ability to understand reason and logic.

jazz_music says

I met a student who says that he and most kids in Palestine sleep with a machine gun next to their pillow.

You met somebody from a region in the defunct Roman Empire?

Did you ever meet somebody from Pappenburg or the Kingdom of Connacht?

anon_cf6c6 says

FP says

anon_cf6c6 says

FP says

what is your point?

Are people's lives worth less in Europe than here?

What??

Exactly,

The fear of guns blocks the ability to understand reason and logic.

LOL You are funny. Are you using a random word generator?

missing says

I don't know of regular folks there carrying

Concealed means concealed.