patrick.net

Everything is supply and demand. Nothing against college educations, but they may not prepare you to start any sort of work in the real world. You can graduate and be competing against people with high school educations for jobs that actually take some kind skills.

Meanwhile, although not glamorous, an apprenticeship as an electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Quigley says

electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life

And can't be offshored.

Quigley says

Meanwhile, although not glamorous, an apprenticeship as an electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life.

It's far easier to be a self-employed electrician than a self-employed Historian or Teacher.

Who needs a manual trade job when one can live in a tent on Market St.?

Are we really talking about $55K jobs here? I mean, with everybody on this site being a (multi-)millionaire and ready to retire at 32...

When people get bachelors in useless crap, or don’t have the brain to do a job their degree teaches...

I know people, masters degrees, no brain to do a job.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Quigley says

Meanwhile, although not glamorous, an apprenticeship as an electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life.

It's far easier to be a self-employed electrician than a self-employed Historian or Teacher.

And you don't have all the management headaches. My brother made over +$100k per year, and always declined the longer hours, for no pay, that management required.

rocketjoe79 says

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Quigley says

Meanwhile, although not glamorous, an apprenticeship as an electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life.

It's far easier to be a self-employed electrician than a self-employed Historian or Teacher.

And you don't have all the management headaches. My brother made over +$100k per year, and always declined the longer hours, for no pay, that management required.

Yeah but a tenured teacher is still a very decent gig. Job security and pension wise.

mell says

Job security and pension wise.

Just ask Dr. Amy Bishop.

Quigley says

Meanwhile, although not glamorous, an apprenticeship as an electrician or pipe fitter will guarantee one a high paying job for life.

An electrician/pipe fitter can still get a degree part-time, if he later wants to segue into construction management or some other adjacent white collar role related to his blue collar field.

The difference here is that he's blending 5-7 years of work experience, with a subsequent bachelor's degree, than in starting with a degree (w/ debt) and having nothing else to show for it.

I love how my daughters high school teachers tried to tell her "Go to a 4 year for the experience". Maybe they'd like the experience of helping us pay for all that unnecessary debt? Fortunately for her we said no on hocking up all that dinero, and she's going to community at least her first year.

NuttBoxer says

"Go to a 4 year for the experience"

Code word for banging around and wasting time.

Do keep in mind that trade jobs tend to have a shorter lifespan simply due to physical demands. I know an electrician that does very well, but now getting into his late 40s simply can't do the job of getting in attics, pulling wires, etc... He is trying to bring in apprentices to do grunt work and do more commercial work, etc... but he has the intelligence to make his business work. If you are in a trade, better own it and then be prepared to manage it in the future as your physical skills decline. Same with plumbing. Commercial / city jobs can be tough, though the benefits are good and the pay decent.

White collar jobs - unless you burn out - can be done into your 60s/70s/80s. Which is actually a problem as these older folks should retire to give opportunity to the next generation. But they can hang on with "accommodations" like tele-work, etc...

Not to say there isn't a good future in the labor./trades. But, I am sure that we will figure out how to "import" those skills in short order (much as we already legally provide visas for ag workers - pickers, etc...).

krc says

Not to say there isn't a good future in the labor./trades.

Especially if you combine it with white collar. Think IT certs. Or better yet, don't go to any school at all. Just teach yourself how to program and start out making $60k+ a year, then get your jobs to pay for any classes/certs you need to move up. Every family member and friend I know who works in computers has zero college education. I have 4 years, but for a BA in History, super useful in my SW testing career.

Live at home, get certs, volunteer/work P/T or temp for IT jobs.

You can start real early, no need to wait until graduating HS.

Nothing replaces real world experience. It's worth 5x any course or class.

mell says

Yeah but a tenured teacher is still a very decent gig. Job security and pension wise.

It really is. My wife is a college professor with that sort of job. Not only does she make good money, benefits, and pension, she gets more than 3 months off every year! I’d trade her jobs if I could, although I don’t think i could handle the SJW sensitivity seminars she has to attend every year. I’d definitely melt a few snowflakes!

It’s all good, until diversity enforcement comes in demanding you hire their retarded friend/relative/neighbor or you are racist, bigot, etc...

krc says

White collar jobs - unless you burn out - can be done into your 60s/70s/80s. Which is actually a problem as these older folks should retire to give opportunity to the next generation.

A lack of pensions is why people are working in old age.

Quigley says

she gets more than 3 months off every year

She must not be at a research university or she is teaching in humanities. Unfortunately for me, I have to do research all summer + in our field hiring is dependent on research money overhead we bring in + tenure decisions depend on research $$$ and not teaching.

Just teaching at university does not usually pay much, and yes, SJW talking points can bring a rational person to a boiling point. Nonsense about Fucking White Males and How They Oppress Womyn and Minorities slowly turns me into a Trumpkin.

The other consideration is that many highly-paid, white-collar jobs require you to live in an expensive area (or have hour-long commute each direction). A skilled electrician can choose to live in a high-priced area and make $100k/year or choose to live in a moderately priced area and still make $65k/year. Affording a decent house on $65k/year is possible when houses cost $150k. Affording a decent house on $200k/year isn't really possible in areas where basic houses cost well north of $1MM.

drB6 says

Just teaching at university does not usually pay much,

This is sadly true. She adjuncted at a local university (sciences) for years making relatively low wages, but moving to a full time gig at a community college brought her wage over even the full time faculty at the university! Better union I guess.

mell says

Yeah but a tenured teacher is still a very decent gig. Job security and pension wise.

Not to mention the typical teacher is contracted to work 190 days a year versus 240 for other professions.

Onvacation says

Not to mention the typical teacher is contracted to work 190 days a year versus 240 for other professions.

True, as typical public school teacher gets at least 2 months off during summer, and then 2 weeks for Christmas and 1 week for spring.

ad says

Onvacation says

Not to mention the typical teacher is contracted to work 190 days a year versus 240 for other professions.

True, as typical public school teacher gets at least 2 months off during summer, and then 2 weeks for Christmas and 1 week for spring.

If you like travel you're absolutely fucked though. It looks good on paper. You CAN'T take days off unless it's legit. My mom was a teacher and my SIL is currently. You can only travel at the most expensive times of the year. We've had parent teacher conferences at Trunk and Maho Bays on St. John USVI during covid. The teachers were fucking pissed/jealous.

So you're stuck with road trips during the summer. I can go to the Caribbean in late October, missing tail end hurricane season and have the islands to myself practically. Pay sucks too. Pension and health care is the biggie if you want to teach at the end. If you're smart though you can make a fuck ton more money than a teacher. It's the safe route for people with no confidence.

Just got back from a long weekend in Door County, WI. Lots of cheese and beer. A teacher can't do that. MLK weekend we usually take a 5-6 day trip and that pisses the teachers off because they can't do it.

Live life once. Being a teacher to have security 30 years down the road and not living it up when you're young sounds like a miserable existence.