patrick.net

I was making this point in the thread where people were talking about the costs of socialized health care. Thanks for the numbers.

Goran_K says

I was making this point in the thread where people were talking about the costs of socialized health care. Thanks for the numbers.

Need to enter the new tax scenario in the USA.

Well no kidding.

Of course taxes will be higher if you're no longer paying $25K+ to insurance companies, hospitals, Drs. offices, etc.

Not to mention that those other countries offer far more services paid by tax dollars that we have to pay separately for here.

LeonDurham says

Not to mention that those other countries offer far more services paid by tax dollars that we have to pay separately for here.

Says who?

LeonDurham says

Well no kidding.

Of course taxes will be higher if you're no longer paying $25K+ to insurance companies, hospitals, Drs. offices, etc.

Not to mention that those other countries offer far more services paid by tax dollars that we have to pay separately for here.

Keep in mind most employees have insurance paid for by the employer. We are clearly better off in the USA. All our other costs like housing, food and transportation are much lower than Europe.

Strategist says

Keep in mind most employees have insurance paid for by the employer. We are clearly better off in the USA. All our other costs like housing, food and transportation are much lower than Europe.

No, the company sends the check, but it's your money that is being paid.

LeonDurham says

Of course taxes will be higher if you're no longer paying $25K+ to insurance companies, hospitals, Drs. offices, etc.

Except it's not $25k. $5,000 for your health insurance for an average family insured through an employer plus $1,000-$4,000 additional out-of-pocket.

"Workers now pay an average of $1,318 out of pocket before health insurance coverage begins to cover part of their bills, up from $584 a decade ago, according to a new report out from the Kaiser Family Foundation. That’s after paying an average of $89 each month for health insurance premiums." http://time.com/money/4044394/average-health-deductible-premium/

Another way to look at it:

Current average costs for an average family insured by employer:

$5,000 employee contribution for plan plus $1,318 out-of-pocket. You are suggesting that it become the equivalent of $25,000 under socialized medicine is not a great argument for adoption.

LeonDurham says

Strategist says

Keep in mind most employees have insurance paid for by the employer. We are clearly better off in the USA. All our other costs like housing, food and transportation are much lower than Europe.

No, the company sends the check, but it's your money that is being paid.

The stats are based on average earnings. Benefits not deducted from average earnings.

MisterLefty says

"Workers now pay an average of $1,318 out of pocket before health insurance coverage begins to cover part of their bills, up from $584 a decade ago, according to a new report out from the Kaiser Family Foundation. That’s after paying an average of $89 each month for health insurance premiums." http://time.com/money/4044394/average-health-deductible-premium/

Another way to look at it:

Current average costs for an average family insured by employer:

$5,000 employee contribution for plan for family plus $1,318 out-of-pocket. You are suggesting that it become the equivalent of $25,000 under socialized medicine is not a great argument for adoption.

lol--are you pretending I haven't shown you why you must include the employer contribution? It's YOUR money.

Hassan_Rouhani says

Says who?

Certainly not Alfie.

NHS wouldn't even allow the parents to take him to Italy for free treatment, with the transportation provided by Italian Civil Society Groups.

That's because they blew his parents off 3x. NHS is packed with relatives of Pakistanis visiting for Free Care.

Who wouldn't want to pay higher taxes for a pitchfork in the chest?

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says

NHS is packed with relatives of Pakistanis visiting for Free Care.

Pakistanis have disproportionately high cases of disabilities due to cousin marriages. 70% of Pakistanis are married to their first cousins. 50% of Iraqis and a similar percent of Saudis are married to their first cousins.
Fucking cousin fuckers.

LeonDurham says

lol--are you pretending I haven't shown you why you must include the employer contribution? It's YOUR money.

lol because you have made no case for it except your own opinion.

LeonDurham says

lol--are you pretending I haven't shown you why you must include the employer contribution? It's YOUR money.

Same goes for other countries too.

MisterLefty says

lol because you have made no case for it except your own opinion.

Yes, I forgot. The law of supply and demand is a pseudo theory.

MisterLefty says

2009: Comparison is between a single individual and a married couple with two children.

France: 50.1% and 41.7%
UK: 33.5% and 27.1%
Canada: 31.6% and 21.5%

What a total fucking joke. A 1 paragraph post on a blog? Nothing else? It's true because I say it's true.

MisterLefty says

$5,000 employee contribution for plan plus $1,318 out-of-pocket. You are suggesting that it become the equivalent of $25,000 under socialized medicine is not a great argument for adoption.

Average employer premium last year was 18,000 according to NCSL. That's money you don't get paid. You contribution isn't the total cost of the plan. plus you kick in on top of that out of pocket.

Strategist says

The stats are based on average earnings. Benefits not deducted from average earnings.

What stats, it's someone's blog that is totally meaningless. No source no methodology, not nothing.

Hassan_Rouhani says

LeonDurham says

Not to mention that those other countries offer far more services paid by tax dollars that we have to pay separately for here.

Says who?

Like schools, fire, police paid out of income taxes not property taxes. I am willing to bet US property taxes didn't get included in taxes. But we don't know since there isn't anything about how the numbers were calculated. Want to tack the average whatever it is property tax (including what renters pay) onto the average earner and see the numbers?

How about $500 a year or free college tuition? Not a benefit?

Here are some real oecd numbers and 11% tax paid is not on the menu or even close. https://taxfoundation.org/comparison-tax-burden-labor-oecd-2016/

bob2356 says

Average employer premium last year was 18,000 according to NCSL. That's money you don't get paid. You contribution isn't the total cost of the plan. plus you kick in on top of that out of pocket.

It is an opinion that the money would be paid to employees if the company no longer paid it.

LeonDurham says

Yes, I forgot. The law of supply and demand is a pseudo theory.

The way you apply it is nonsensical. And economics is not at all science.

bob2356 says

What a total fucking joke. A 1 paragraph post on a blog? Nothing else? It's true because I say it's true.

Tax rates in other countries are no secret. But instead of whining, post a link with contrary information.

MisterLefty says

It is an opinion that the money would be paid to employees if the company no longer paid it.

That's why it's called compensation package not salary.

bob2356 says

That's why it's called compensation package not salary.

But now Uncle Sam pays the benefit. Poof!

Uncle Sam: The new single payer plan signed into law by President Sanders provides a boost to both consumers, in the form of an average $5,000 raise, but also to employers, who see a more improved bottom line.