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A similar thing happens in Android smartphones, which use wifi as part of their location services. Switching wifi off prevents it from connecting to wifi access points, but allows it to continue periodically scanning for access point names to help pinpoint its location.
They don't bother to use triangulation (I think) to determine your location - why bother, most of you never turn off GPS.
Wifi identifies where wifi is available based on GPS, not the other way around. GPS should always be off, and using network services, just costs you money. Wifi should always be turned on, network services and GPS should always be off until you need it. You don't need Wifi turned on when you leave your home, when you have it on and GPS on, it's connecting location to Wifi. It's mapping open Wifi services based off from GPS. They don't bother to use triangulation (I think) to determine your location - why bother, most of you never turn off GPS.
They don't bother to use triangulation (I think) to determine your location
Wifi identifies where wifi is available based on GPS, not the other way around
richwicks says
Wifi identifies where wifi is available based on GPS, not the other way around
That does not make any sense. There is no GPS database of all home and business WiFi locations, and every Android or IPhone I used would list any WiFi that they sensed was in range. If a close enough neighbor just now switches a new router with WiFi, I will see it appear on my phones WiFi list. Nothing to do with GPS.
Cell phones can determine your location using Wi-Fi through a process known as Wi-Fi Positioning System (WPS). Here’s a simplified explanation of how it works:
Scanning Wi-Fi Access Points: Your device scans for nearby Wi-Fi access points and records their signal strength.
Creating a List: It creates a list of these Wi-Fi access points along with their signal strength at your current location.
Contacting Location Servers: Your device then contacts online servers that have a database of Wi-Fi access points and their geographical locations.
Determining Your Location: By comparing the list of Wi-Fi access points your device has detected with the database, the system can pinpoint your precise physical location.
This method is particularly useful when GPS is unavailable or unreliable, such as indoors where GPS signals may be weak or blocked. The Wi-Fi positioning system leverages the extensive Wi-Fi infrastructure in urban areas to provide accurate location information12.
It’s important to note that while this system can be very accurate, it also raises privacy concerns, as it means your location could potentially be tracked by businesses or other third parties if you’ve given them permission to do so2
Your device then contacts online servers that have a database of Wi-Fi access points and their geographical locations.
RWSGFY says
Your device then contacts online servers that have a database of Wi-Fi access points and their geographical locations.
So there is a database of WiFi locations? Is this just for some predetermined and registered commercial spots? I do not see how home and business WiFi devices would automatically be added.
That does not make any sense. There is no GPS database of all home and business
HeadSet says
That does not make any sense. There is no GPS database of all home and business
Of course there is. Google maps is the most obvious example.
Traditional addresses are basically obsolete. They are used for mail, and that's it.
Provider knows.
My complete sentence was "There is no GPS database of all home and business WiFi locations"
If routers had a feature that allowed them to read and write digital phone signals, you could do away with cell towers.
When you are moving around with your phone with GPS and Wi-Fi on, your phone is collecting which location and wifi signals it can connect to.
richwicks says
If routers had a feature that allowed them to read and write digital phone signals, you could do away with cell towers.
Are you really an engineer? That would require home/business WiFi routers to have huge antennas and an effective radiated power of around 100 watts.
richwicks says
When you are moving around with your phone with GPS and Wi-Fi on, your phone is collecting which location and wifi signals it can connect to.
Do you actually know this, or are you just guessing?
A 100 watts? Really? Really, you think it takes that much energy?
Do you actually know this, or are you just guessing?
Listen to me.
Google is an information collection agency. That's what they do. That's their MAIN PURPOSE and always has been. It has the side effect of allowing you to find information, and but their main job is surveillance.
Yes, I do. The fact that my phone can see lots of WiFi spots in a housing development is irrelevant. Why do cell tower antennas have 100 watt amps feeding them?
Why does the tower need 100 watts power when the phone answering back only needs well under a watt?
So you are guessing.
Even turning all the crap off doesn't stop police and first responders from tracking you. Unless your phone has legit dead battery, even off, you're trackable.
I don't think people understand this. If you want privacy you shouldn't have a phone. That's really all there is to it.
One of these days, I'll compare battery drawdown between unshielded and shielded phones. I expect the shielded phone to discharge 10X faster than the unshielded one.
stereotomy says
One of these days, I'll compare battery drawdown between unshielded and shielded phones. I expect the shielded phone to discharge 10X faster than the unshielded one.
If your phone is on and cannot reach a cell tower, it will expend a lot of power trying to find one. I've had this happen to me once, so I'm in the habit now when I'm in an area without good cell coverage, I just turn the phone off. Seems like a bad design, but I don't know the specifics of how modern phones work.
HeadSet says
So you are guessing.
Dude, believe whatever you fucking like. Fuck all of you, you want to be slaves, be fucking slaves then. I'm DONE trying to explain to you motherfuckers what can and WILL be done to you.
I suspect that even off, the phone is probably spying, or could be periodically woken up by the NSA to eavesdrop, who knows?
HeadSet says
Why does the tower need 100 watts power when the phone answering back only needs well under a watt?
Well, it's been a while since I've worked on anything remotely connected to cell phone communication, like 20 years, but it was because it wasn't a shaped waveform at all. You broadcast completely non directional. That's changed.
I should clarify: I would turn the phone off, then measure charge after about a week. I suspect that even off, the phone is probably spying, or could be periodically woken up by the NSA to eavesdrop, who knows?
Whoa, calm down. We were talking about a specific - that you said When you are moving around with your phone with GPS and Wi-Fi on, your phone is collecting which location and wifi signals it can connect to.
Just admit that you do not know if this is true instead of launching into your Special Theory of GoogleEvilty.
If your phone is on and cannot reach a cell tower, it will expend a lot of power trying to find one. I've had this happen to me once, so I'm in the habit now when I'm in an area without good cell coverage, I just turn the phone off. Seems like a bad design, but I don't know the specifics of how modern phones work.
Well, beam formed a little since there was no point in a tower broadcasting upward. But the mobile phones are not beamed formed at all, so the question remains - Why does the tower need 100 watts power when the phone answering back only needs well under a watt?
Voice data isn't large in comparison to most of what we do on the Internet now, which is video.
The future of the internet in many areas will be from cell towers.
The_Deplorable says
This seriously happens. If you have an Alexa or a Google Home, or possibly even Siri - fake a discussion about a pet you'd never own with your family, and see what ads you start getting.
They are 24/7 listening devices. This is a simple test. I've gotten a FEW people to try it, but not with Siri. It's the 1984's telescreen. I'm giving you a test so you can verify it's true, if you don't do the test, whatever. We've been trying to warn you for years.
A growing number of people are ditching their smartphones for 'dumbphones' that only call and text to avoid being in 'zombie mode.'
The simple devices have skyrocketed in popularity, as 2.8 million were sold in the US last year with people proclaiming they feel calmer and more present in their ordinary lives.
A California woman told DailyMail.com that she made the switch after realizing she spent the entire summer on her smartphone, saying she barely remembered the time - she even forgot where she walked her dog.
Caroline Cadwell explained that switching to a dumbphone was impractical at first, but then became freeing.
'Space and time, is how I'd describe it. It's amazing how much your relationships can gain from giving it up,' she said.
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Many others have attempted Open Source phones and failed. I hope this one works, especially since I just discovered that you cannot turn off wifi or Bluetooth on Android or iOS. "Turning it off" in the controls on those phones merely disconnects you from current access points, but leaves them on so they can spy on your location with great precision and open you up to various exploits:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/21/ios-11-apple-toggling-wifi-bluetooth-control-centre-doesnt-turn-them-off