patrick.net

It's not just the Dems who are upset about this move

Evan F. says

It's not just the Dems who are upset about this move

Anyone against this is against logic.

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Looks like Mattis is leaving at the end of Feb., one of the few competent people he had. I would guess, it is only a guess for now, the selling out of our allies in Syria to the fascist in Turkey is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Yeah, we're really going to defeat Russia and Iran by fighting a false flag war in Syria.

Ceffer says

Yeah, we're really going to defeat Russia and Iran by fighting a false flag war in Syria.

Right?

When did Democrats fall in love with war. Wasn't their entire opposition to Dubya based on his war hawk tendencies?

Democrats should send their sons over to Syria.

I've never fully understood what's going on in Syria. I'm glad Trump has figured it out.

We shouldn't be involved in no win situations. Only the industrial military complex and its political stooges want to keep it going.

rdm says

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Does supporting the kurds require troops on the ground in Syria?

Goran_K says

Does supporting the kurds require troops on the ground in Syria?

Nope. A-10s are quite capable of BRRRRRRTing Turkish Armored Vehicles. ;)

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Nope. A-10s are quite capable of BRRRRRRTing Turkish Armored Vehicles. ;)

Also crates of M4's and .223 ammunition can be air dropped in. Stinger missiles.

We practically destroyed the USSR by a proxy war that involved very few troops on the ground in Afghanistan.

I think Democrats will literally sacrifice American lives to be contrarian to Trump.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Does supporting the kurds require troops on the ground in Syria?

It may as they act as a line not to cross. And if you think Trump will protect them from with airpower from a member of NATO whose dictator he loves, that isn't going to happen. This is not a simple black and white situation. But to me when you forge an alliance with people you don't abandon them. Should we be there in the first place is another question.

rdm says

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Kurds are the only force in Middle East (other than Israel) who are reasonable and so far secular. If the world allows Turks to fuck Kurds over a few more times, we will get another ISIS in shape of Kurdish guerillas. An example of this type is Chechens - in middle 1990's they were secular rebels, but since only Islamists supported them against Russians, now they are raging ISIS supporters and very often best ISIS commanders and troops. If tens of millions of Kurds see that only Islamists would help them against Turks or Iranians...results will be much worse than in case of a million Chechens.

Goran_K says

Democrat Party: The new War Hawks

Who are the most prominent republicans in the house, the senate, or the military establishment that support this pull out from Syria. And if so, can you point me to a good explanation as to why now ?

Is Jim Mathis a republican ?

I know I'm guilty of reading the mainstream media that only mentions the congressional republican leaders that are strongly speaking out against this. That's why I'm hoping you can tell me about the republicans that Brietbart or Fox have found that are explaining clearly why this is an awesome idea.

d6rB says

rdm says

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Kurds are the only force in Middle East (other than Israel) who are reasonable and so far secular. If the world allows Turks to fuck Kurds over a few more times, we will get another ISIS in shape of Kurdish guerillas. An example of this type is Chechens - in middle 1990's they were secular rebels, but since only Islamists supported them against Russians, now they are raging ISIS supporters and very often best ISIS commanders and troops. If tens of millions of Kurds see that only Islamists would help them against Turks or Iranians...results will be much worse than in case of a million Chechens.

I’ll be honest. As long as they stay over there, I don’t give a fuck. That may sound cold but we’ve got enough to deal with here and every proxy war in the past 100 years has lead to dead Americans for dubious returns.

I'm sure Goran or twoscoops can tell me why this is a great idea, but I would like to hear some government leaders or foiegn policy experts (you know people that have put at least a few hundred hours into understanding this in the past couple years). Why do they think its a good idea ?

I would think that even military analysts that think it's bad idea, know both sides and can explain the point of view of people that think it's a good idea. Can someone point me to some written analysis, so I can learn ?

(don't get me wrong - I enjoy people talking out their ass about things they know almost nothing about as much as the next guy. But surely someone out there is capable of explaining this. A summary of the background and the reason for the decision. )

I'm open to the idea that it's wise. I just haven't heard a good explanation of why it is. That is, other than Trump cucks that automatically defend what Trump does, before even thinking about it.

Goran_K says

Anyone against this is against logic.

Very good chance (almost 100%) they aren't TrumpCucks too.

rdm says

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Virtue signaling is hard...Can some tell me again why I'm supposed to support Kurds?

TRump says we can't be the policeman for the middle east. That makes some sense. But it begs the question why now ? After what we've done in Iraq, and what we've done fighting ISIS recently, why pull out so abruptly /

MY guess as to the answer ?

Because working to do it slowly, that is working with congress and working with our allies, doing it collaboratively, and in a way that's less harmful, means he doesn't get as much credit in the history books. The way he's doing this, it's all him !

This may even be an indication that he doesn't think he has much more time to get the things he promised he would do, done.

Sad.

komputodo says

Can some tell me again why I'm supposed to support Kurds?

In this specific instance they were acting as our ground force in Syria ( and also to some extent Iraq) in the battle against ISIS. Remember them? The terrorists that took over large parts of Syria and Iraq butchering and enslaving as they conquered the infidels. That task mostly done Tump is giving them a fuck you, Trumpian SOP. But that is how he operates. Mattis apparently has different standards.

Goran_K says

I’ll be honest. As long as they stay over there, I don’t give a fuck. That may sound cold but we’ve got enough to deal with here and every proxy war in the past 100 years has lead to dead Americans for dubious returns.

In principle I agree. In this particular case, not. Kurds were US ground troops against ISIS. If we would not have got into this mess, then it would be none of our business. We did, and our very few allies need to be treated like allies.

I don't understand why in war we would ever ally ourselves with others. OR for that matter why it is that once we do, we should hold up our end of the deal we made with them.

What's wrong with just walking away and saying, "sorry, we gotta go, best of luck, go get'em tiger !."

komputodo says

rdm says

Let's fuck over the Kurds...again. sickening

Virtue signaling is hard...Can some tell me again why I'm supposed to support Kurds?

Because they are supposedly our “allies”.

d6rB says

Goran_K says

I’ll be honest. As long as they stay over there, I don’t give a fuck. That may sound cold but we’ve got enough to deal with here and every proxy war in the past 100 years has lead to dead Americans for dubious returns.

In principle I agree. In this particular case, not. Kurds were US ground troops against ISIS. If we would not have got into this mess, then it would be none of our business. We did, and our very few allies need to be treated like allies.

They can still fight against ISIS with our bullets, guns and even air strikes.

Just not our ground troops.

Goran_K says

They can still fight against ISIS with our bullets, guns and even air strikes.

Just not our ground troops.

At this point, ISIS is not an issue since Kurds did what was asked of them - defeated ISIS. Issue is our "ally" Turkey who has been supporting assorted Islamists.

They'll oppose anything Trump does.

Reminds me of that meme where Trump says he loves oxygen and liberals suffocate themselves in protest of oxygen.

My wild guess -

Trump will use the Syria military money saved to pay for the wall. He may even use the now-more-idle military directly to build it.

This Syria pull out seemed to coincide with the same day that he decided not to pursue the shutdown to get wall funding. He also recently floated the idea of using the military to build the wall, and recently mentioned he has "other ways" to get money for the wall.