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Fuck Electric Vehicles, But More Importantly, Fuck Their Sanctimonious Owners.
invite response
2019 May 3, 8:59am 6,137 views 87 comments
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2
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 9:57am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 9:57am
clambo says
Your area sounds like the exception. When I looked at energy figures for California a few years ago, the majority still came from coal/oil.
Where I live in N. California, the electricity comes from burning natural gas.
Your area sounds like the exception. When I looked at energy figures for California a few years ago, the majority still came from coal/oil.
3
socal2
2019 May 3, 10:08am
NuttBoxer says
Huh? Coal is about 1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California
- Natural gas - 50%
- Hydroelectric - 16%
- Nuclear - 15%
- Geothermal - 6%
- Wind/Solar/Biomass/Other - 12%
- Coal - 1%
Your area sounds like the exception. When I looked at energy figures for California a few years ago, the majority still came from coal/oil.
Huh? Coal is about 1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California
- Natural gas - 50%
- Hydroelectric - 16%
- Nuclear - 15%
- Geothermal - 6%
- Wind/Solar/Biomass/Other - 12%
- Coal - 1%
4
socal2
2019 May 3, 10:12am
Nice rant by OP.
Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.
My Chevy Bolt is simply the fastest and most fun car I have ever owned. I don't even care about the environmental benefits. I am driving a car that is faster than 95% of the cars on the road, super convenient to charge up in my garage and I am saving over $200 month in gas and maintenance.
I am giving up nothing and gaining loads in terms of performance and cost savings.
Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.
My Chevy Bolt is simply the fastest and most fun car I have ever owned. I don't even care about the environmental benefits. I am driving a car that is faster than 95% of the cars on the road, super convenient to charge up in my garage and I am saving over $200 month in gas and maintenance.
I am giving up nothing and gaining loads in terms of performance and cost savings.
5
Tenpoundbass
2019 May 3, 10:16am
Tenpoundbass
2019 May 3, 10:16am
We're coming to an interesting fork in the road ahead. On one side we have EV's that have failed in virtually every promise they made back in 2009, when Obama swindled American tax payers. Then gave billions to failed start up green companies. Tesla was one of them. The incentives was supposed to be all about how they would get cheaper after 10 years. But here we are they are still need Subsidies.
Now we're seeing Gas cars getting creative with engines and are getting closer to the 50 mpg mark. They are also chocking the car full of high tech innovations and more sensors that want to communicate information back to the Mother ship. Metro PCS is selling a module you plug into a slot for ten bucks. I guess every car manufacture has provided a standard protocol and socket for it. The current generation of vehicles are starting to see the most advanced stuff in their base model cars. This in turn is making new cars un-affordable for most people. new If this trend continues. I don't see myself buying the next generation of Mazda 3 or what ever new model they may come out with.
Everything has been made a premium for buying a car.
Fuel efficient = Premium $
Economical = Premium $
They are so standard and alike. I'm seeing more Luxury car manufacturers copying Mazda and Hyundai designs.
I saw Alpha Romero Mazda CX-9 the other day at the grocery store parking lot. I parked my wife's car next to it. Got the same curves, the lines, the style the back. All the same.
Every car is a luxury car now.
Now we're seeing Gas cars getting creative with engines and are getting closer to the 50 mpg mark. They are also chocking the car full of high tech innovations and more sensors that want to communicate information back to the Mother ship. Metro PCS is selling a module you plug into a slot for ten bucks. I guess every car manufacture has provided a standard protocol and socket for it. The current generation of vehicles are starting to see the most advanced stuff in their base model cars. This in turn is making new cars un-affordable for most people. new If this trend continues. I don't see myself buying the next generation of Mazda 3 or what ever new model they may come out with.
Everything has been made a premium for buying a car.
Fuel efficient = Premium $
Economical = Premium $
They are so standard and alike. I'm seeing more Luxury car manufacturers copying Mazda and Hyundai designs.
I saw Alpha Romero Mazda CX-9 the other day at the grocery store parking lot. I parked my wife's car next to it. Got the same curves, the lines, the style the back. All the same.
Every car is a luxury car now.
6
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:25am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:25am
socal2 says
I didn't use wikipedia for my numbers, but as I mentioned, has been a while since I checked. But fact is California, the poster-child for alternative energy, still relies on oil.
Huh? Coal is about 1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California
- Natural gas - 50%
- Hydroelectric - 16%
- Nuclear - 15%
- Geothermal - 6%
- Wind/Solar/Biomass/Other - 12%
- Coal - 1%
I didn't use wikipedia for my numbers, but as I mentioned, has been a while since I checked. But fact is California, the poster-child for alternative energy, still relies on oil.
7
socal2
2019 May 3, 10:27am
Tenpoundbass says
Huge failure!
*Tesla becomes best selling premium automaker in US, topping BMW and Lexus*
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-number-1-premium-automaker-q4-2018-us-bmw-lexus/
*Tesla = #1 in Luxury Cars in USA, #4 in Luxury Vehicles*
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/09/tesla-1-in-luxury-cars-in-usa-4-in-luxury-vehicles-possibly-5-cleantechnica-charts/
*Tesla Outsells Mercedes-Benz In America And BMW Is Next To Be Toppled*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/09/tesla-outsells-mercedes-benz-in-america-and-bmw-is-next/#2d3aca997562
How much money did Obama give GM?
On one side we have EV's that have failed in virtually every promise they made back in 2009, when Obama swindled American tax payers. Then gave billions to failed start up green companies. Tesla was one of them.
Huge failure!
*Tesla becomes best selling premium automaker in US, topping BMW and Lexus*
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-number-1-premium-automaker-q4-2018-us-bmw-lexus/
*Tesla = #1 in Luxury Cars in USA, #4 in Luxury Vehicles*
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/09/tesla-1-in-luxury-cars-in-usa-4-in-luxury-vehicles-possibly-5-cleantechnica-charts/
*Tesla Outsells Mercedes-Benz In America And BMW Is Next To Be Toppled*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/09/tesla-outsells-mercedes-benz-in-america-and-bmw-is-next/#2d3aca997562
How much money did Obama give GM?
8
socal2
2019 May 3, 10:29am
NuttBoxer says
I thought we were just talking about electricity generation? I believe your graph includes transportation.
If the Green morons in California didn't decommission 2 of our nuke plants, we would be relying on less natural gas too. But natural gas is a good bridge energy to help reduce our emissions while improve the alternatives.
I didn't use wikipedia for my numbers, but as I mentioned, has been a while since I checked. But fact is California, the poster-child for alternative energy, still relies on oil.
I thought we were just talking about electricity generation? I believe your graph includes transportation.
If the Green morons in California didn't decommission 2 of our nuke plants, we would be relying on less natural gas too. But natural gas is a good bridge energy to help reduce our emissions while improve the alternatives.
9
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:35am
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:35am
clambo says
Nah, the range sucked and the filling stations were few and far between. If filling up at home was allowed that would be the whole 'nother story.
PS. And it's still a fucking Civic.
he best idea was a natural gas Honda Civic
Nah, the range sucked and the filling stations were few and far between. If filling up at home was allowed that would be the whole 'nother story.
PS. And it's still a fucking Civic.
10
Shaman
2019 May 3, 10:39am
Shaman
2019 May 3, 10:39am
Now I’m interested in the Chevy Bolt!
I’m all about economics, and I understand where the energy comes from.
Electric motors are just super great for fast acceleration and reliability, as well as being far less on maintenance, and cheaper to operate.
I’m all about economics, and I understand where the energy comes from.
Electric motors are just super great for fast acceleration and reliability, as well as being far less on maintenance, and cheaper to operate.
11
clambo
2019 May 3, 10:40am
Duke Power in Moss Landing makes the electricity where I live in N. California.
There are a several reasons I like the idea of an electric car, socal2 owns one and likes driving it.
Electric cars can be useful for most driving use of cars; most trips are well within the range of 50 miles round trip. But, the Bolt can handle an actual "road trip" somewhere also with a 238 mile range.
An electric motor driving the wheels is efficient because it means you don't need a gearbox or transmission and clutch; this is a heavy complex piece of equipment in a car.
The cost of electricity at night can drop and of course the power plants are not as busy at night so this is maybe a good use of them anyway.
But, the other is the "fuel" cost of driving the car can be as low as 4 cents/mile ($0.04). Some cars can get higher mileage than my car which gets 30 mpg on the freeway but only about 20 mpg around town.
20 mpg with $4.00 gasoline in California=20 cents ($0.20) per mile which is a lot more than 4 cents per mile.
Electric cars have smooth acceleration and torque. But, you will use your battery up if you stomp on the pedal because it costs energy to accelerate any mass.
F=MA Both the rate of acceleration and the mass of the car will affect the energy you use up in city driving.
RE: Honda Civic is a good car and the range was not so bad; unfortunately there were few places to fill up and it wasn't popular enough.
I would buy a Chevy Bolt in a heartbeat but I own a Volvo S60 T5 with an engine made in Sweden and assembled in Belgium so I may die before the car does.
I drove up to San Francisco the other day and I had to stop counting the Bolts after a while; those cars are kicking Tesla's ass with good reason.
There are a several reasons I like the idea of an electric car, socal2 owns one and likes driving it.
Electric cars can be useful for most driving use of cars; most trips are well within the range of 50 miles round trip. But, the Bolt can handle an actual "road trip" somewhere also with a 238 mile range.
An electric motor driving the wheels is efficient because it means you don't need a gearbox or transmission and clutch; this is a heavy complex piece of equipment in a car.
The cost of electricity at night can drop and of course the power plants are not as busy at night so this is maybe a good use of them anyway.
But, the other is the "fuel" cost of driving the car can be as low as 4 cents/mile ($0.04). Some cars can get higher mileage than my car which gets 30 mpg on the freeway but only about 20 mpg around town.
20 mpg with $4.00 gasoline in California=20 cents ($0.20) per mile which is a lot more than 4 cents per mile.
Electric cars have smooth acceleration and torque. But, you will use your battery up if you stomp on the pedal because it costs energy to accelerate any mass.
F=MA Both the rate of acceleration and the mass of the car will affect the energy you use up in city driving.
RE: Honda Civic is a good car and the range was not so bad; unfortunately there were few places to fill up and it wasn't popular enough.
I would buy a Chevy Bolt in a heartbeat but I own a Volvo S60 T5 with an engine made in Sweden and assembled in Belgium so I may die before the car does.
I drove up to San Francisco the other day and I had to stop counting the Bolts after a while; those cars are kicking Tesla's ass with good reason.
12
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:42am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:42am
socal2 says
You are right on the graph, not apples to apples, but I think it still proves my point. And yes, shutting down SanO because of some easily planned for and replaced pipping was assinine.
I've heard some bad things about fracking, do we get natural gas using non-destructive means?
If the Green morons in California didn't decommission 2 of our nuke plants, we would be relying on less natural gas too. But natural gas is a good bridge energy to help reduce our emissions while improve the alternatives.
You are right on the graph, not apples to apples, but I think it still proves my point. And yes, shutting down SanO because of some easily planned for and replaced pipping was assinine.
I've heard some bad things about fracking, do we get natural gas using non-destructive means?
13
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:47am
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:47am
NuttBoxer says
It's more about its Fukusima-like location, I believe. Building it on the beach was the original assinine act.
And yes, shutting down SanO because of some easily planned for and replaced pipping was assinine.
It's more about its Fukusima-like location, I believe. Building it on the beach was the original assinine act.
14
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:48am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2019 May 3, 10:48am
Hugolas_Madurez says
Ok, but Tsunami's are far more common on Japan, and nuclear energy is one of the safest forms of energy production in the world.
It's more about its Fukusima-like location, I believe. Building it on the beach was the original assinine act.
Ok, but Tsunami's are far more common on Japan, and nuclear energy is one of the safest forms of energy production in the world.
15
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:55am
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 10:55am
NuttBoxer says
It takes just one tsunami similar to one which devastated Crescent City in 1964 to make nuclear shit hit the fan in the middle of very densely populated area. The possible downside exceeds any imaginable upside from "carbon-free energy" by order of magnitude.
but Tsunami's are far more common on Japan
It takes just one tsunami similar to one which devastated Crescent City in 1964 to make nuclear shit hit the fan in the middle of very densely populated area. The possible downside exceeds any imaginable upside from "carbon-free energy" by order of magnitude.
16
socal2
2019 May 3, 11:29am
Quigley says
You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.
A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.
Now I’m interested in the Chevy Bolt!
You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.
A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.
17
clambo
2019 May 3, 2:54pm
Today driving into Santa Cruz I saw 4 Bolts within a few minutes of each other, those are evidently popular here.
18
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 May 3, 2:55pm
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 May 3, 2:55pm
I've seen two kinds of EV owners. Average people who just bought it because it saves them from buying gas and they got solar panels already (Prius). And young liberal kids who think they are saving a planet... completely unaware of world around them.
19
HeadSet
2019 May 3, 3:02pm
HeadSet
2019 May 3, 3:02pm
clambo says
Were they waiting in line at a charging station?
Today driving into Santa Cruz I saw 4 Bolts within a few minutes of each other, those are evidently popular here.
Were they waiting in line at a charging station?
20
clambo
2019 May 3, 3:30pm
headset, the Bolts are all over the place here. They weren't charging probably because they have a 238 mile range.
In S. Florida I was averaging about 200 miles per week but I didn't have to commute anywhere. I could have driven a Bolt and charged it once or twice per week and gotten along fine.
I'm not interested in the car for environmental reasons, rather economic, practicality and esthetic reasons.
I would never own a Tesla for example; I think they're ugly and so expensive and etc.
In S. Florida I was averaging about 200 miles per week but I didn't have to commute anywhere. I could have driven a Bolt and charged it once or twice per week and gotten along fine.
I'm not interested in the car for environmental reasons, rather economic, practicality and esthetic reasons.
I would never own a Tesla for example; I think they're ugly and so expensive and etc.
21
Hand_Of_Glory
2019 May 3, 3:36pm
Hand_Of_Glory
2019 May 3, 3:36pm
Tim Aurora says
Like I said above, if you like it, good on you.
As an aside, anyone contemplating buying an EV should be aware of the full value. The cost is always come down as the industry scales.
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electric-car.html
http://patrick.net/post/1323735/2019-04-07-evs-are-cheaper-to-operate-and-much-cleaner-than-ice
I am on my third EV, it is so fun to drive I am not going back to that 20th Century ICE
Like I said above, if you like it, good on you.
As an aside, anyone contemplating buying an EV should be aware of the full value. The cost is always come down as the industry scales.
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electric-car.html
22
Heraclitusstudent
2019 May 3, 4:03pm
Heraclitusstudent
2019 May 3, 4:03pm
The thing to consider is that solar and batteries prices are not static: they are collapsing.
And they are collapsing because there are people who buy these technologies now.
The people who buy early super expensive Teslas paid for investments that will allow one day electric vehicles to be by far cheaper than gas cars (they are simpler).
And - given that solar power prices are also collapsing - electric vehicles are going to be clearly the greenest.
So the rant above amount to conservative nay saying in the face of progress - progress from which everyone benefits.
The willing, fates guide them.
The others, they drag.
And they are collapsing because there are people who buy these technologies now.
The people who buy early super expensive Teslas paid for investments that will allow one day electric vehicles to be by far cheaper than gas cars (they are simpler).
And - given that solar power prices are also collapsing - electric vehicles are going to be clearly the greenest.
So the rant above amount to conservative nay saying in the face of progress - progress from which everyone benefits.
The willing, fates guide them.
The others, they drag.
23
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 May 3, 4:10pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 May 3, 4:10pm
How do you store all that Solar Power after 5PM on a January in Washington or Massachusetts?
Molten Salt.
Molten Salt.
24
Hand_Of_Glory
2019 May 3, 5:31pm
Hand_Of_Glory
2019 May 3, 5:31pm
Heraclitusstudent says
Not a conservative breh. Thanks for your opinion.
The thing to consider is that solar and batteries prices are not static: they are collapsing.
And they are collapsing because there are people who buy these technologies now.
The people who buy early super expensive Teslas paid for investments that will allow one day electric vehicles to be by far cheaper than gas cars (they are simpler).
And - given that solar power prices are also collapsing - electric vehicles are going to be clearly the greenest.
So the rant above amount to conservative nay saying in the face of progress - progress from which everyone benefits.
The willing, fates guide them.
The others, they drag.
Not a conservative breh. Thanks for your opinion.
25
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 5:46pm
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 5:46pm
socal2 says
Sorry, but there is no way shape or form Bolt/Volt/Leaf or whatever other tall FWD electric econobox is more fun to drive than Tesla3. The latter handles beautifully, on par with the best RWD sports sedans out there, the former are all firmly on the scale between horrible and simply meh. Of course, there is nothing wrong in choosing an electric econobox if one doesn't care about handling and the whole "fun to drive" thing is limited by "0-40 acceleration from a stop light" for them.
You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.
A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.
Sorry, but there is no way shape or form Bolt/Volt/Leaf or whatever other tall FWD electric econobox is more fun to drive than Tesla3. The latter handles beautifully, on par with the best RWD sports sedans out there, the former are all firmly on the scale between horrible and simply meh. Of course, there is nothing wrong in choosing an electric econobox if one doesn't care about handling and the whole "fun to drive" thing is limited by "0-40 acceleration from a stop light" for them.
26
clambo
2019 May 3, 6:23pm
The height of the car matters less if the center of gravity is low with the weight of the batteries and motors down low.
The Bolt has the equivalent of 200 HP which is a lot for a small car. My Volvo hauls ass with 250 HP but it's a heavier car.
Everyone who drives it says it's fun, and for $30,000 less money than Tesla you can spend the extra dough on having other kinds of fun.
They must be selling a lot of them in some places, I see them all over the area I'm in.
The Bolt has the equivalent of 200 HP which is a lot for a small car. My Volvo hauls ass with 250 HP but it's a heavier car.
Everyone who drives it says it's fun, and for $30,000 less money than Tesla you can spend the extra dough on having other kinds of fun.
They must be selling a lot of them in some places, I see them all over the area I'm in.
28
clambo
2019 May 3, 6:31pm
The Bolt is about $30,000
I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive. I bet most 3s actually end up being $45,000.
I can't just go buy a Model 3 rather I must pay $ then wait for months and I guess people do that too but I sure won't.
I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive. I bet most 3s actually end up being $45,000.
I can't just go buy a Model 3 rather I must pay $ then wait for months and I guess people do that too but I sure won't.
29
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 6:43pm
RWSGFY
2019 May 3, 6:43pm
clambo says
You don't have to add anything. RWD and great handling comes standard.
I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive.
You don't have to add anything. RWD and great handling comes standard.
30
komputodo
2019 May 3, 7:55pm
komputodo
2019 May 3, 7:55pm
socal2 says
Umm, I don't think you have to be able to afford a Tesla to test drive one...I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.
Umm, I don't think you have to be able to afford a Tesla to test drive one...I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
31
BayArea
2019 May 3, 8:47pm
BayArea
2019 May 3, 8:47pm
Comment I heard from a coworker this week upon laying eyes on a Chevy Volt...
“I’d be embarrassed to be seen in that” LOL
How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars on the road today? It blows my mind that this is still true post federal bailout.
“I’d be embarrassed to be seen in that” LOL
How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars on the road today? It blows my mind that this is still true post federal bailout.
32
Ceffer
2019 May 3, 8:56pm
Ceffer
2019 May 3, 8:56pm
BayArea says
They use a senile old Russian designer who used to design Lada's and Yugo's.
Actually, I have heard a lot of good things about the Volt from end users.
How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars
They use a senile old Russian designer who used to design Lada's and Yugo's.
Actually, I have heard a lot of good things about the Volt from end users.
34
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 May 3, 9:12pm
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 May 3, 9:12pm
Civic/Corolla can't be beat. Cheaper to start, cheap on gas. EV's are expensive and unreliable toys. No one knows how long they last, Teslas I hear are junk that breaks a lot. Prius seems to last longer, but again (battery life is unknown).
35
mell
2019 May 3, 9:38pm
Agree if EVs work for you that's great but there's no credible data that they have a better pollution footprint than modern ICEs. Best is a competition of both models as it brings out the best on both sides.
36
Automan Empire
2019 May 3, 10:24pm
Automan Empire
2019 May 3, 10:24pm
The car in the OP appears to have run over an open manhole cover or larger road hazard.
37
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Apr 6, 2:15pm
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Apr 6, 2:15pm
https://x.com/sashayanshin/status/1776552388704227421
Why I will never switch from my EV to one of these new gas cars.
1. Range anxiety - I am used to being on 100% every morning. With a gas car, I might not have enough gas to get to work and have to waste time going to recharge it.
2. Big maintenance problem - After 100k-200k miles you have to swap or rebuild the engine. That’s $10-20k on an old car. This is crazy!
3. Risk of fire - Gas cars have ~100x the likelihood of catching fire compared to EVs. You literally have a full tank of explosive liquid right underneath your back seats. No thank you!
4. Underdeveloped charging infrastructure - Every home has a power outlet. Every AirBnb has one too. No matter how remote. With a gas car, you have to go find special charging stations instead of charging while you sleep. Sometimes, the nearest one could be 50 miles away!
5. Environmental impact - Did you know it takes about 10x as much mining and pumping to get the oil needed to fuel a gas car over its lifetime than the materials needed to build an electric battery? Insane!
6. Range issues - Did you know that if you turn on aircon, charge your devices in the car and blast the infotainment system, your gas car range can go down by 20% or more?!
7. Cost - The average gas car costs 20% more than a Tesla. It’s just too expensive for mass adoption.
You have to be a real nutcase fan boy to switch to a gas car! [socal2, Eman]
38
WookieMan
2024 Apr 6, 2:33pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 6, 2:33pm
Lol... The thickest sarcasm/troll I've seen in a while. Spot on though. Molasses is what comes to mind.
EV owners enjoy it. It's not cheaper. Not green. I just zipped around town in the cart. Fun. I also sometimes need to tow up to 9k lbs more than 400 meters. Can it tow it, sure, but again will you literally get more than a 1/4 miles out of it? Not happening with a EV. Get a golf cart and drive that to work. In CA you're likely not getting above 30-40mph on a good traffic day. Golf carts can go that fast easy. 1/3 the cost for a nice one. 1/10th for a fixer upper.
EV owners enjoy it. It's not cheaper. Not green. I just zipped around town in the cart. Fun. I also sometimes need to tow up to 9k lbs more than 400 meters. Can it tow it, sure, but again will you literally get more than a 1/4 miles out of it? Not happening with a EV. Get a golf cart and drive that to work. In CA you're likely not getting above 30-40mph on a good traffic day. Golf carts can go that fast easy. 1/3 the cost for a nice one. 1/10th for a fixer upper.
40
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
rocketjoe79 says
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
This is what I like.
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
41
clambo
2024 Apr 7, 6:58am
The only guy I know who owns a Tesla was bragging about how he got a tax credit for it. He's the epitome of a smug owner.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
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Electricity for much of the US and world is powered through coal, its just a switch to another equal pollutant. The batteries and materials used in EVs are full of heavy metals, not to mention that when the batteries in an EV combust they fill the air with pollutants, burning heavy metals that fire departments cant extinguish. Lastly, theres not enough data on current EVs to determine their shelf life, given the materials and amount of electronics, i imagine the shelf life of an EV will be significantly shorter than that of an ICE vehicle.
Given all of that, you will still be subject to the bitching and moaning of bugmen and babies who have never changed their oil in their life. The sheer panic that these people attempt to spread and their ever changing timeline of ecological destruction is obnoxious. These arent folks who attempt to clean up India or China(our leading polluters) but they want to concentrate on stripping you of your ability to choose.
The government is only too happy to comply too. The more that bloodsucking government can entangle themselves in transportation, the more control they have over you and your movement. The government gives companies like Tesla "Credits" that they can sell to ICE manufacturers who dont develop EVs, or dont develop them to the point that the government wants. This allows failing EV companies, like Tesla, to stay afloat even though they cant run a business efficiently. Honestly this type of behavior is more akin to a villain from an Ayn Rand novel, both with the governments overreach and with the behavior of many EV owners in general.