Fuck Electric Vehicles, But More Importantly, Fuck Their Sanctimonious Owners.
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2019 May 3, 8:59am 7,113 views 185 comments
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170
socal2
2024 Dec 11, 8:31am
Eric Holder says
Pretty much all EV's that are not Tesla are lame. I believe Tesla only rented out their rear wheel drive cars to Hertz and not the much faster dual motor versions. Renting EV's can be stressful if you are not around your homebase and familiar with the roads or have an easy/convenient place to charge.
One of of my co-workers in Boise rented a Model Y while in LA last year for work and was also meh. It didn't have the data plan enacted so he didn't get all the extra streaming for music, movies and internet. No FSD either. I encouraged him to test drive the same car for a few days in his home town and he came back with a totally different experience and ended up buying one.
Except I drive rental automatics and EVs all the time and still come away with a giant "meh, I prefer my manual jalopies".
Pretty much all EV's that are not Tesla are lame. I believe Tesla only rented out their rear wheel drive cars to Hertz and not the much faster dual motor versions. Renting EV's can be stressful if you are not around your homebase and familiar with the roads or have an easy/convenient place to charge.
One of of my co-workers in Boise rented a Model Y while in LA last year for work and was also meh. It didn't have the data plan enacted so he didn't get all the extra streaming for music, movies and internet. No FSD either. I encouraged him to test drive the same car for a few days in his home town and he came back with a totally different experience and ended up buying one.
171
Reality
2024 Dec 11, 9:47am
HeadSet says
95+% new ICE cars sold in the US are automatics. He/she was pointing out the workload issue with driving a manual as if that were a problem with all ICE cars , and touting the less workload when driving an EV using the "one-pedal-driving" method. 95+% ICE cars sold are automatics (and in the last 5+ years overwhelming majority of which also have ACC, Advanced Cruise Control, which makes touching any foot pedal unnecessary most of the time when following in traffic), over which the EV's have no workload advantage whatsoever.
Reality says
Why would a regular two-pedal automatic car commandeer any additional appendage of the driver at all?
Wasn't he talking about manual shift cars?
95+% new ICE cars sold in the US are automatics. He/she was pointing out the workload issue with driving a manual as if that were a problem with all ICE cars , and touting the less workload when driving an EV using the "one-pedal-driving" method. 95+% ICE cars sold are automatics (and in the last 5+ years overwhelming majority of which also have ACC, Advanced Cruise Control, which makes touching any foot pedal unnecessary most of the time when following in traffic), over which the EV's have no workload advantage whatsoever.
172
ForcedTQ
2024 Dec 11, 12:31pm
Reality says
ACC stands for “Adaptive Cruise Control”, in that it adapts the set vehicle speed to respect the set following distance and speed of the vehicle in front of it.
HeadSet says
Reality says
Why would a regular two-pedal automatic car commandeer any additional appendage of the driver at all?
Wasn't he talking about manual shift cars?
95+% new ICE cars sold in the US are automatics. He/she was pointing out the workload issue with driving a manual as if that were a problem with all ICE cars , and touting the less workload when driving an EV using the "one-pedal-driving" method. 95+% ICE cars sold are automatics (and in the last 5+ years overwhelming majority of which also have ACC, Advanced Cruise Control, which makes touching any foot pedal unnecessary most of the time when following in traffic), over which the EV's have no workload advantage whatsoever.
ACC stands for “Adaptive Cruise Control”, in that it adapts the set vehicle speed to respect the set following distance and speed of the vehicle in front of it.
173
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:38pm
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:38pm
ForcedTQ says
This shit annoys me to no end. It takes one slowpoke to create a long line of ACC-equipped cars to line up behind it and chug along 10mph below speed limit with drivers fingerfucking their phones oblivios to the fact.
ACC stands for “Adaptive Cruise Control”, in that it adapts the set vehicle speed to respect the set following distance and speed of the vehicle in front of it.
This shit annoys me to no end. It takes one slowpoke to create a long line of ACC-equipped cars to line up behind it and chug along 10mph below speed limit with drivers fingerfucking their phones oblivios to the fact.
174
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:40pm
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:40pm
socal2 says
And you'd be wrong. I rented LR AWD ModelY from them.
Tesla only rented out their rear wheel drive cars to Hertz and not the much faster dual motor versions.
And you'd be wrong. I rented LR AWD ModelY from them.
175
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:42pm
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 12:42pm
Reality says
Yeah, some back braking labor, LOL. What's next: the unberable burden of steering with your hands?... Wait, I think we already starting to hear that.
workload issue with driving a manual
Yeah, some back braking labor, LOL. What's next: the unberable burden of steering with your hands?... Wait, I think we already starting to hear that.
176
socal2
2024 Dec 11, 12:51pm
Eric Holder says
Then you must have it set at "chill" mode or drove it like an old lady.
There is no way you can drive a dual motor Model Y and not be impressed with the acceleration. It is one of the quickest cars on the road.
And you'd be wrong. I rented LR AWD ModelY from them.
Then you must have it set at "chill" mode or drove it like an old lady.
There is no way you can drive a dual motor Model Y and not be impressed with the acceleration. It is one of the quickest cars on the road.
177
socal2
2024 Dec 11, 12:58pm
ForcedTQ says
My wife's Hyundai has ACC which is nice for long freeway drives.
But it is nothing like Tesla's Full Self Driving that can literally drive you door to door through busy city streets and now navigate and park itself in busy COSTCO parking lots.
Basically $99/month to have a full time chauffer. No one in the world is close to what Tesla has already accomplished here. GM just announced they are bailing out of Cruz and Waymo is basically locked into geofenced areas that were heavily mapped by LIDAR.
Hope some of you guys were smart and picked up some TSLA shares before the election.
ACC stands for “Adaptive Cruise Control”, in that it adapts the set vehicle speed to respect the set following distance and speed of the vehicle in front of it.
My wife's Hyundai has ACC which is nice for long freeway drives.
But it is nothing like Tesla's Full Self Driving that can literally drive you door to door through busy city streets and now navigate and park itself in busy COSTCO parking lots.
Basically $99/month to have a full time chauffer. No one in the world is close to what Tesla has already accomplished here. GM just announced they are bailing out of Cruz and Waymo is basically locked into geofenced areas that were heavily mapped by LIDAR.
Hope some of you guys were smart and picked up some TSLA shares before the election.
178
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 1:10pm
Eric Holder
2024 Dec 11, 1:10pm
socal2 says
It accelerates briskly, I give it that. But it is also heavy as fuck and makes you aware of that. It is also underdamped and gets upset where my other cars don't. And that "one pedal driving" thingy? It bored me to death. But it is useful in snow and on ice. Brilliant, actually. People of SFBA in general have no fucking idea how to drive on slick roads so this might save some grief to many occasional travelers to Tahoe area.
Eric Holder says
And you'd be wrong. I rented LR AWD ModelY from them.
Then you must have it set at "chill" mode or drove it like an old lady.
There is no way you can drive a dual motor Model Y and not be impressed with the acceleration. It is one of the quickest cars on the road.
It accelerates briskly, I give it that. But it is also heavy as fuck and makes you aware of that. It is also underdamped and gets upset where my other cars don't. And that "one pedal driving" thingy? It bored me to death. But it is useful in snow and on ice. Brilliant, actually. People of SFBA in general have no fucking idea how to drive on slick roads so this might save some grief to many occasional travelers to Tahoe area.
179
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 5:21pm
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 5:21pm
socal2 says
$1,200/yr? That's gas for the average commuter with sedans. They have 14 gallon tanks tops. That's 2 fill ups and 400-450 miles or just under 1k/mo. That's not including hybrids. All this done in under 5 minutes one time a month.
EV owners don't value time. It's not green. They're fast on acceleration increasing a risk of an accident. Cool. My niece 16 has a Prius and doesn't fill up for 2 months. She spends less than $200/mo on gas. The up front cost of EV's is 1,000% not worth it in the long run. You've got to change my mind Socal besides it's fun to drive. Which I don't disagree with that.
Basically $99/month to have a full time chauffer. No one in the world is close to what Tesla has already accomplished here. GM just announced they are bailing out of Cruz and Waymo is basically locked into geofenced areas that were heavily mapped by LIDAR.
$1,200/yr? That's gas for the average commuter with sedans. They have 14 gallon tanks tops. That's 2 fill ups and 400-450 miles or just under 1k/mo. That's not including hybrids. All this done in under 5 minutes one time a month.
EV owners don't value time. It's not green. They're fast on acceleration increasing a risk of an accident. Cool. My niece 16 has a Prius and doesn't fill up for 2 months. She spends less than $200/mo on gas. The up front cost of EV's is 1,000% not worth it in the long run. You've got to change my mind Socal besides it's fun to drive. Which I don't disagree with that.
180
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 6:40pm
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 6:40pm
Eric Holder says
I loved it for sure and it wasn't hard for me. You learn a lot about driving doing it. Mine was a POS 4 cylinder. 205k miles and no new clutch. One brake change. 1/8th the cost of a Tesla out the door. Not sure how that's not winning. My gas and maintenance was covered before I dumped the car. Spent probably a 1/2 at least overall on what a Tesla sedan costs.
Just because the market "seems" to be changing doesn't mean it is. Power supply is a massive factor that hasn't hit yet. Give it 3-5 years. Our grid is in a bad place and it's at the brink. Especially in CA. Put this in the predictions thread. The fan is spinning the shit just hasn't hit it yet.
Reality says
workload issue with driving a manual
Yeah, some back braking labor, LOL. What's next: the unberable burden of steering with your hands?... Wait, I think we already starting to hear that.
I loved it for sure and it wasn't hard for me. You learn a lot about driving doing it. Mine was a POS 4 cylinder. 205k miles and no new clutch. One brake change. 1/8th the cost of a Tesla out the door. Not sure how that's not winning. My gas and maintenance was covered before I dumped the car. Spent probably a 1/2 at least overall on what a Tesla sedan costs.
Just because the market "seems" to be changing doesn't mean it is. Power supply is a massive factor that hasn't hit yet. Give it 3-5 years. Our grid is in a bad place and it's at the brink. Especially in CA. Put this in the predictions thread. The fan is spinning the shit just hasn't hit it yet.
181
socal2
2024 Dec 11, 7:01pm
WookieMan says
I absolutely value time. Tesla's Full Self Driving is going to free up millions of hours for commuters all over the world to be doing more productive things then hanging onto a steering wheel and driving in grinding traffic.
EV owners don't value time.
I absolutely value time. Tesla's Full Self Driving is going to free up millions of hours for commuters all over the world to be doing more productive things then hanging onto a steering wheel and driving in grinding traffic.
182
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 7:50pm
WookieMan
2024 Dec 11, 7:50pm
socal2 says
Because you live somewhere with traffic and high cost of living? I can live in the country for 1/5 the cost. No traffic. And have access to the same things. I can drive with my knee. I don't operate electronics or anything when driving. I don't want to kill myself or another human based on electronic sensors. My eye work pretty damn well.
How many speeding tickets and accidents you have? I've yet to meet a single human that's NOT been in an accident or had a speeding ticket.
WookieMan says
EV owners don't value time.
I absolutely value time. Tesla's Full Self Driving is going to free up millions of hours for commuters all over the world to be doing more productive things then hanging onto a steering wheel and driving in grinding traffic.
Because you live somewhere with traffic and high cost of living? I can live in the country for 1/5 the cost. No traffic. And have access to the same things. I can drive with my knee. I don't operate electronics or anything when driving. I don't want to kill myself or another human based on electronic sensors. My eye work pretty damn well.
How many speeding tickets and accidents you have? I've yet to meet a single human that's NOT been in an accident or had a speeding ticket.
183
Reality
2024 Dec 11, 8:54pm
Eric Holder says
You are correct on both. The lane-keeping-assist feature is getting quite good too. ACC+LKAS combined can be quite handy when driving long distance on highways: enabling the driver to drive much longer because the constant micro-adjustment to steering wheel (to keep the car centered in the lane despite small bumps in the road surface) would become unnecessary; I used to get tired after a couple hours of driving before getting the MDX a decade ago, one of the first implementations of both (only available on the top trim level that model year, as part of a $15k package, when average new car price was $32k); with those features, I became capable of driving 8+ hours at a time. Also handy in stop-and-go rush hour traffic: not having to touch any foot pedal at all. After having that car for a couple months, I predicted the combination would become available on every newly released car within 5 years simply because the (combined) feature is so great! Toyota and Honda beat my prediction by 1-2 years, and making it free! The sensors are also much much cheaper now thanks to mass production scaling.
A line of ACC-activated cars lining up actually makes passing them easier: they are predictable, and no asshole would suddenly speed up to prevent you from passing when you are on the other side of the dotted median.
Yeah, some back braking labor, LOL. What's next: the unberable burden of steering with your hands?... Wait, I think we already starting to hear that.
This shit annoys me to no end. It takes one slowpoke to create a long line of ACC-equipped cars to line up behind it and chug along 10mph below speed limit with drivers fingerfucking their phones oblivios to the fact.
You are correct on both. The lane-keeping-assist feature is getting quite good too. ACC+LKAS combined can be quite handy when driving long distance on highways: enabling the driver to drive much longer because the constant micro-adjustment to steering wheel (to keep the car centered in the lane despite small bumps in the road surface) would become unnecessary; I used to get tired after a couple hours of driving before getting the MDX a decade ago, one of the first implementations of both (only available on the top trim level that model year, as part of a $15k package, when average new car price was $32k); with those features, I became capable of driving 8+ hours at a time. Also handy in stop-and-go rush hour traffic: not having to touch any foot pedal at all. After having that car for a couple months, I predicted the combination would become available on every newly released car within 5 years simply because the (combined) feature is so great! Toyota and Honda beat my prediction by 1-2 years, and making it free! The sensors are also much much cheaper now thanks to mass production scaling.
A line of ACC-activated cars lining up actually makes passing them easier: they are predictable, and no asshole would suddenly speed up to prevent you from passing when you are on the other side of the dotted median.
184
Reality
2024 Dec 11, 9:01pm
socal2 says
LOL! No. Costco has some of the largest parking spaces: each space is double-lined between cars/spaces. Tesla's FSD even in its latest version would easily crash a car multiple times each week. It's not a full-time-chauffer any more than you can ride in a pink jeep driven by a 5yo girl who has had the toy for a few weeks: yes, she can go around obstacles in the yard and you can praise her driving skills. She is not quite even at a learner's permit holder's level in terms of driving on real streets with a supervising adult sitting in the passenger seat. Tesla makes it quite clear: it doesn't allow the owner/driver to sit in the passenger seat while letting FSD drive the car solely on its own. Maybe Tesla should install a duplicate brake pedal on the passenger side, so each driver can be a driver's ed teacher being able to stop the car on the passenger side just to prove FSD can drive at least as good as a beginner driver's ed student.
Waymo's approach is far more responsible than Tesla's.
But it is nothing like Tesla's Full Self Driving that can literally drive you door to door through busy city streets and now navigate and park itself in busy COSTCO parking lots.
Basically $99/month to have a full time chauffer. No one in the world is close to what Tesla has already accomplished here. GM just announced they are bailing out of Cruz and Waymo is basically locked into geofenced areas that were heavily mapped by LIDAR.
LOL! No. Costco has some of the largest parking spaces: each space is double-lined between cars/spaces. Tesla's FSD even in its latest version would easily crash a car multiple times each week. It's not a full-time-chauffer any more than you can ride in a pink jeep driven by a 5yo girl who has had the toy for a few weeks: yes, she can go around obstacles in the yard and you can praise her driving skills. She is not quite even at a learner's permit holder's level in terms of driving on real streets with a supervising adult sitting in the passenger seat. Tesla makes it quite clear: it doesn't allow the owner/driver to sit in the passenger seat while letting FSD drive the car solely on its own. Maybe Tesla should install a duplicate brake pedal on the passenger side, so each driver can be a driver's ed teacher being able to stop the car on the passenger side just to prove FSD can drive at least as good as a beginner driver's ed student.
Waymo's approach is far more responsible than Tesla's.
185
Reality
2024 Dec 11, 9:18pm
socal2 says
"FSD will be able to fully drive itself next year" has been the mantra for almost a decade! and it's still "next year." If/when the technology finally arrives, self-driving will be available on ICE cars, just like ICE cars can also accelerate fast enough to be fun. My ICE car has quicker 0-60 and quarter mile times than Tesla Model Y LR dual-motor, and cost about the same when I bought it despite having far better interior, far better UI, far better ride quality and better architecture. Now it's quite clear battery EV's can be made very cheaply, in the range of $15k USD for making an econobox similar to Tesla Model Y. That may indeed have its appeals in markets like China, India and Mexico. However, battery EV's can not deliver energy density (range + quick refill), collision/puncture safety or low-temperature environment operability anywhere near what ICE cars can deliver. Then there is the issue of service longevity. Will Chinese, Indians or Mexicans pay for another battery EV in 8 years after their first one's battery dies of old age? quite unlike an ICE car that can keep operating for at least 2x to 3x as many years. Is a brand new battery EV car comparable to the Model Y at $15k and 8yr service life really price competitive to a 3-5yo ICE car that has 10-20 years of service life left? Seems to me the utter disappearance of cheap cars in the US already answered the question: people would rather have a used Lexus or Toyota instead of a brand new POS.
Tesla's Full Self Driving is going to free up millions of hours for commuters all over the world to be doing more productive things then hanging onto a steering wheel and driving in grinding traffic.
"FSD will be able to fully drive itself next year" has been the mantra for almost a decade! and it's still "next year." If/when the technology finally arrives, self-driving will be available on ICE cars, just like ICE cars can also accelerate fast enough to be fun. My ICE car has quicker 0-60 and quarter mile times than Tesla Model Y LR dual-motor, and cost about the same when I bought it despite having far better interior, far better UI, far better ride quality and better architecture. Now it's quite clear battery EV's can be made very cheaply, in the range of $15k USD for making an econobox similar to Tesla Model Y. That may indeed have its appeals in markets like China, India and Mexico. However, battery EV's can not deliver energy density (range + quick refill), collision/puncture safety or low-temperature environment operability anywhere near what ICE cars can deliver. Then there is the issue of service longevity. Will Chinese, Indians or Mexicans pay for another battery EV in 8 years after their first one's battery dies of old age? quite unlike an ICE car that can keep operating for at least 2x to 3x as many years. Is a brand new battery EV car comparable to the Model Y at $15k and 8yr service life really price competitive to a 3-5yo ICE car that has 10-20 years of service life left? Seems to me the utter disappearance of cheap cars in the US already answered the question: people would rather have a used Lexus or Toyota instead of a brand new POS.
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Electricity for much of the US and world is powered through coal, its just a switch to another equal pollutant. The batteries and materials used in EVs are full of heavy metals, not to mention that when the batteries in an EV combust they fill the air with pollutants, burning heavy metals that fire departments cant extinguish. Lastly, theres not enough data on current EVs to determine their shelf life, given the materials and amount of electronics, i imagine the shelf life of an EV will be significantly shorter than that of an ICE vehicle.
Given all of that, you will still be subject to the bitching and moaning of bugmen and babies who have never changed their oil in their life. The sheer panic that these people attempt to spread and their ever changing timeline of ecological destruction is obnoxious. These arent folks who attempt to clean up India or China(our leading polluters) but they want to concentrate on stripping you of your ability to choose.
The government is only too happy to comply too. The more that bloodsucking government can entangle themselves in transportation, the more control they have over you and your movement. The government gives companies like Tesla "Credits" that they can sell to ICE manufacturers who dont develop EVs, or dont develop them to the point that the government wants. This allows failing EV companies, like Tesla, to stay afloat even though they cant run a business efficiently. Honestly this type of behavior is more akin to a villain from an Ayn Rand novel, both with the governments overreach and with the behavior of many EV owners in general.