patrick.net

My property taxes at least go to my local county to keeps roads safe, firefighters on the job and police fighting local crime. My Federal taxes? They pay for absurdities like "Head Start" and "no child left behind."

My property taxes at least go to my local county to keeps roads safe, firefighters on the job and police fighting local crime

In most localities, property taxes go mostly for schools.

rocketjoe79 says

My property taxes at least go to my local county to keeps roads safe, firefighters on the job and police fighting local crime.

I think most (at least a lot) of local taxes go to police and firepersons pensions so that they can retire at 45 after 20 yrs in force and be paid 80% salary for next 40 years. Another big chunk of expenses is the support of mayor-friendly businesses for public works aka I give you city contract and you give me a kickback, and so on.
I read somewhere that in IL 97% of all recent tax increases have gone to state/municipal workers pensions.

d6rB says

I read somewhere that in IL 97% of all recent tax increases have gone to state/municipal workers pensions.

97% sounds low. Are you sure its not 125%

zzyzzx says

d6rB says

I read somewhere that in IL 97% of all recent tax increases have gone to state/municipal workers pensions.

97% sounds low. Are you sure its not 125%

Retiring at 55 with full salary/benefits for life is pretty sweet deal these days. That's why they never have money to provide actual services we are paying for, they spent it all on sweetheart deals for their friends and family.

FortWayneIndiana says

Retiring at 55 with full salary/benefits for life

My dear young friend, your naivety is so charming. It was much, much worse than you think. Until recently, police and firepersons could retire here after 20 years of service, no matter how young they are. Which means enter force at 22 after few yrs of police academy and retire at 42 with 80% of salary...I think I have chosen the wrong profession.
Edit: and in this case, one can also blame not only "libruls" who will support any public worker, but also so-called "law and order" conservatives, who support police unconditionally.

HeadSet says

In most localities, property taxes go mostly for schools.

PUBLIC schools...

d6rB says

I think most (at least a lot) of local taxes go to police and firepersons pensions so that they can retire at 45 after 20 yrs in force and be paid 80% salary for next 40 years.

The majority of Phoenix city budget is Police.

NuttBoxer says

The majority of Phoenix city budget is Police.

Investment in Phoenix donut shops would bring oversized returns...also shows that schools are not the worst culprit by far.
I wonder what is % of expenses on police/other pensions in these budgets, and why do these highly privileged individuals are not on SS like the rest of us.

When you side with the state against the people, the state rewards you. Just make sure no one remembers you when the people rebel and the tumbril's start rolling.

d6rB says

My dear young friend, your naivety is so charming. It was much, much worse than you think. Until recently, police and firepersons could retire here after 20 years of service, no matter how young they are. Which means enter force at 22 after few yrs of police academy and retire at 42 with 80% of salary...I think I have chosen the wrong profession.

Oh I know, we have that here too. Just most government staff here is not police so they all go at 55. But yeah fire and police here are treated like royalties, they retire with more money than most wealthy people.

d6rB says

I think most (at least a lot) of local taxes go to police and firepersons pensions so that they can retire at 45 after 20 yrs in force and be paid 80% salary for next 40 years.

I've wondered why firefighters get such high compensation. I'm not trying to down play the job and say its easy, or they sit around all day, but I do know that at least locally, it's very difficult to get a job as one because so many people want to be firefighters. That should drive the wages down, but, it remains very high when you consider OT and benefits.

Maybe it's the benefits package. I think someone on here once told me the reason why so many govt / municipal jobs allow employees to work overtime at 1.5x salary rate, is because its often cheaper than hiring another employee when you consider the cost of adding another benefits package to the payroll. That tells me things are just wayyyy too cushy for them... I want private industry firefighting.

Hircus says

That tells me things are just wayyyy too cushy for them...

I'd say this is 100% true. The EMT's at the department are the one's doing real life saving work. I'd guess 90% of the time firefighters show up, it's an empty house that is on fire and they just spray a hose at it (I know there's more to it). And maybe they run in and safe someone 3 out of 100 times. It just seems more common because those are the house fire stories you hear about. The town I live in has about 800 homes and there hasn't been a house fire call in the 6 years I've lived here.

Fact is my house is insured. As long as no one is in it, fucking let it burn to the ground for all I care. Repairing a half burned house, just sprayed everywhere with water, could be more difficult to repair or more $$$ versus rebuilding off the existing foundation.

Repairing a half burned house, just sprayed everywhere with water, could be more difficult to repair or more $$$ versus rebuilding off the existing foundation.

True, but putting out one house fire stops the spread to other houses.

HeadSet says

Repairing a half burned house, just sprayed everywhere with water, could be more difficult to repair or more $$$ versus rebuilding off the existing foundation.

True, but putting out one house fire stops the spread to other houses.

For sure in urban environments, definitely correct on that. Most suburban and rural homes could burn to the ground and it wouldn't hurt the neighbors house at all though. And there's very rarely fires in those areas because most are post 1960's or so built with better wiring and HVAC systems (outside of human error, the two systems most likely to cause a random fire in a home).

A neighboring community by me has I think 18 full time firefighters and have had 3 house fires in the last decade. You're already paying insurance, then you're paying for the firefighters in the extremely rare, fluke event your house starts on fire. It's kind of silly. Also, if you're building new, most higher end homes have sprinkler systems in them now. On a bigger house the initial investment will pay for itself relatively quickly in insurance savings. But you're still paying the FD when you have an automated FD built into your home.

Big city fire departments do serve a purpose as there are more fires and frankly more stupid people that start them. Small to medium sized fire departments are just responding to accidents most of the time, opening up a crushed car and handing off the patients to the EMT's who actually save the life if they can. Half the time the fire department is called out because some neighbor is burning leafs and they have some dispute with each other and call the FD to get back at their neighbor.

Most Baby Boomers I know struggle from day to day just to make ends meet. The last week of the month until they get their SS or retirement check. They are on involuntary diets.

The whole notion that Boomers have all the wealth and should be the object of everyone's scorn is more Commie talk designed to deflect and divide and conquer.

What amazes me most is people like

Bernie Sanders
Warren Buffet
Bill Gates and other unsavory cock suckers that were greedy fucks since the 60's, are the one's leading the rally charge.

These are the same people that most Boomers despised all throughout the 80's and called them Yuppies.

The Hatred of the Yuppies was NOT a generational thing. It was their own peers that resented that the Yuppies were destroying their Jobs and were attempting to Globalize American's finances and send everyone to the poor house. Now that they are there fully in the poor house. Those Sons of Bitches that caused most all of America's wealth gap and divide. Savage all Boomers as the cause of Millennials useless state of affairs.


The Millennials bitching the loudest about breaks that Boomers get, will be the most vocal fuckers in the world when they hit 50-60 demanding all taxation against them stops.

It fucking amazes me.

In CA government employees bitch about being underpaid while collecting 2 pensions that are higher than private sector salaries. Not really boomer specific.

FortWayneIndiana says

In CA government employees bitch about being underpaid while collecting 2 pensions that are higher than private sector salaries. Not really boomer specific.

You generally are a boomer or older if you're collecting a pension already.

Not in CA. There’s some sweetheart deals here.

WookieMan says

FortWayneIndiana says

In CA government employees bitch about being underpaid while collecting 2 pensions that are higher than private sector salaries. Not really boomer specific.

You generally are a boomer or older if you're collecting a pension already.

FortWayneIndiana says

Not in CA. There’s some sweetheart deals here.

Sure, there always is. But as a percentage, most people collecting a pension in CA are probably 80-90% boomer aged or older. Young boomers are 55 right now. Statistically there are not that many people below the age of 55 already collecting a pension. Most of them will work the extra years to boost the pension so they get more sitting on their ass. And those last years are probably filled with vacations and paid time off they've collected while still doing the "job" so to speak.

In meanwhile CA is moving to remove residents over 65 and under 65 who aren't willing to pay higher taxes

Destructo!

Hircus says

I want private industry firefighting.

That used to be a thing a couple hundred years ago. But the private companies sold “fire insurance” and didn’t service structures whose owners didn’t buy a policy. That became an obvious flaw when entire neighborhoods burned down because of out of control blazes that weren’t being “serviced.”
It’s been publically managed ever since.

Quigley says

Hircus says

I want private industry firefighting.

That used to be a thing a couple hundred years ago. But the private companies sold “fire insurance” and didn’t service structures whose owners didn’t buy a policy. That became an obvious flaw when entire neighborhoods burned down because of out of control blazes that weren’t being “serviced.”
It’s been publically managed ever since.

Ha, that's really interesting to hear.

I suppose a successful modern private venture would need carefully designed regulations and incentive systems.

Hircus says

I suppose a successful modern private venture would need carefully designed regulations and incentive systems.

It would only work under an Obamacare type tax system where you were required to purchase a policy or otherwise taxed for the money, then the government gave the money to the private fire fighter company as a contractor like they do trash services in most cities. That would probably be the most efficient system since they would offer the contracts for bidding, and thus keep costs down.

We had a volunteer fire department where I grew up in Texas. We had an over supply of real men though vs. what we have in coastal CA. We also had much better services, i.e., police, schools, etc., vs. CA without and income tax.

I went to Orlando for the first time a couple of weeks ago. The roads were so nice, just like TX. I can't get that out of my head as I bounce my way into work on the 805 each morning here in SD lately.