patrick.net

We need to define what "organic farming" is. If we assume that it is farming without artificial pesticides, and without artificial fertilizers, then everyone in the whole damned world practiced it until the advent of guano mining in early 19th century (which may still qualify as organic, depending on definition). Nothing "Vedic" about that and no appropriations anywhere. Furthermore, the advent of non-organic farming, brought on by chemistry discoveries in the evil West, eliminated most of the world hunger and allowed populations to grow to the levels they are now (incl populations of third-world countries).

I gave it a minute. Who cares? Seems like a jealousy thing. Fact remains you either have resources or you don't. Ethnicity, nationality, skin color, etc, none of it matters. It's not plagiarism and to say so is childish. The "original knowledge group" fucked up and didn't do anything with it. Oh well....

rd6B says

by chemistry discoveries in the evil West, eliminated most of the world hunger and allowed populations to grow to the levels they are now (incl populations of third-world countries).

There are many layers in your comment.
West(of past) took from other cultures and plagiarized them. When pointed out it complains "oh I am evil west" we did better than what other did.
China steals IP from west. It becomes Evil China how dare they copy and improve on it.

If chemical induced food is so good why is West switching to organic farming? I agree there is more population than before but weren't people having enough food in Asia, Africa and europe before present history.

Title Vedic was used to show the techniques antiquity. If everyone in 18th century and before was following it why would the english do research and publish a book on it. Start a society that runs to even today based on that book.

OccasionalCortex says

Are you one of those Indians who espouse that Ancient Indians also had flying saucers and plastic surgery?

I have to call you a liberal. You try to equate one which is proven with one which is not proven and say both of them are false. Like trump says you fake news peddler.

Flying machines not proven. Plastic surgery in ancient sense was proven. They were not doing silicon injections into ladies breasts in past.

WookieMan says

I gave it a minute. Who cares? Seems like a jealousy thing. Fact remains you either have resources or you don't. Ethnicity, nationality, skin color, etc, none of it matters. It's not plagiarism and to say so is childish. The "original knowledge group" fucked up and didn't do anything with it. Oh well....

Yes I can see your point. That is the reason I gave the time-stamp of explanation of how this plagiarism works. Maybe you can give those 20sec a try.

www.youtube.com/embed/VL9whwwTK6I

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/consume-cow-urine-cow-dung-to-stop-effect-of-coronavirus-hindu-mahasabha-president/548010

When I saw the thread title, I was expecting it to be about Creepy Joe Biden..

OccasionalCortex says

indc says

If chemical induced food is so good why is West switching to organic farming?

Because we are rich enough that we can now afford to. And part of that is using advanced agricultural techniques that use hydroponics/airponics in pesticide free greenhouses.

So when I equate you to liberal I am attacking you. But when I point out the deficiency of logic in your question I am defensive.

How is eating organic food has anything to do with rich or poor? Wouldn't rich eat chemical induced food if it is good for them?

indc says

West(of past) took from other cultures and plagiarized them.

All cultures do that in one way or another. Difference though is that concept of zero, or gunpowder, or glass, or printing press were not patented, as this type of system did not exist at that time. Now it exists and Chinese want to have their stuff patent protected while plundering other nation's patents. That is not OK and is different from adopting an Indian-invented zero, or Western-isolated acetylsalicylic acid.

indc says

If chemical induced food is so good why is West switching to organic farming?

Because people are chemophobic idiots.

indc says

weren't people having enough food in Asia, Africa and europe before present history.

No, they had periodic famines when crops failed. Now, almost never. And that is a historic fact.

indc says

If everyone in 18th century and before was following it why would the english do research and publish a book on it. Start a society that runs to even today based on that book.

I have no idea. Perhaps English are interested in history?

indc says

West(of past) took from other cultures and plagiarized them. When pointed out it complains "oh I am evil west" we did better than what other did.

Great, so India - give up your Space Program, give up your railroads, give up modern medicine and go back to your pre 19th Century (everywhere) health methods, you know, back when only the lucky (and that only among the upper castes) surpassed age 40. Stop stealing!

This is a retarded argument.

indc says

If chemical induced food is so good why is West switching to organic farming? I agree there is more population than before but weren't people having enough food in Asia, Africa and europe before present history.

True or False: There were reliable and frequent famines in India before modern farming, including before the British or French or Arabs came to India.

If Vedic Agriculture was so productive, why didn't the British bring it back to Britain, instead of changing the agriculture in India to grow more Tea and Opium to sell on to China?

The_Weeping_Ayatollah says

I always liked the scene. If he would have said most of the words in english had greek root then he wouldn't have to come up with that convoluted logic. But comedy needs such setup.

The question is: how do they plan to "get that knowledge back"? Make the eeeeevil West forget how to grow veggies using nothing but cow poop for fertilizer? How?

White peoples stole our Algebra and our numbers!
Ok nut job.

Everything modern India has that makes it modern is plagiarized from the West.

All nice comments. I didn't say anything about evil west or stealing knowledge but everyone assumes that. I didn't know plagiarism is same as stealing. I thought it meant not giving due credit. And it is worse when the original contributor has to pay royalty to the plagiarizer.

What an odd post.

India kept having famines until the green revolution in the 50s and 60s which was when we shared chemical fertilizers and agro chemicals with them.

just_dregalicious says

What an odd post.

India kept having famines until the green revolution in the 50s and 60s which was when we shared chemical fertilizers and agro chemicals with them.

That is historically wrong. India started having famines after the british came to India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India

OccasionalCortex says

In India they use human poop. Over 400 million Indians refuse to be potty trained and shit outside.

Guess which country, when adjusted for age, has the highest heart disease in the world?

And which one has the most vegetarians?

https://www.asiaone.com/health/why-are-indians-so-prone-heart-disease

indc says

That is historically wrong. India started having famines after the british came to India.

That's complete rubbish. A trick of "White Man Bad" is to take advantage that the rulers in Pre-British India did not have the fascination for bureaucratic recrods or interest in the lives of peasant scum, so did not keep official records. However, from old journals and historical diaries, there were famines all over India, some of which killed millions, in a country with a fraction of the population it had today.

Because India was factionalized into small states during most of the pre-British era, there was no central authority to collect information anyway.

We do know that several famines were ignored by Mughal Sultans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India#Ancient,_medieval_and_pre-colonial_India

A useful collection of many famines before the Raj with a mix of Indian and non-Indian PRIMARY sources, many famines have multiple sources:

"By order of the true Channa-Basava-Raja-Deva of the ancient place of the great high priest of the Umattur upparige-simhasana, Kala-Mallikarjuna-Deva and parupatyagara Kempina-Liugan-Odeyar-Deva, uniting, had the well repaired. At that time, all grains sold at 7 mana for 1 hana, and men ate men: then they did this."

Introduction pp27-28: "As a mana is half a ser (seer) or measure, and a hana equal to 4 annas 8 pies, the price of grain was apparently 12 seers for the rupee in modern currency; but the different value of money [so many] years ago, and the different capacity of seer measures, must be taken into consideration."

http://www.vinlandmap.info/india-famine/

It's not different than Bantus in South Africa talking about Zulu Magic being superior to Western Science.

No matter. They kept starving and were on the brink again in the 60s until the Ford Foundation stepped in

Now they use that tech to export tons of rice. They are one of the biggest producers.

NoCoupForYou says

OccasionalCortex says

In India they use human poop. Over 400 million Indians refuse to be potty trained and shit outside.

Guess which country, when adjusted for age, has the highest heart disease in the world?

And which one has the most vegetarians?

https://www.asiaone.com/health/why-are-indians-so-prone-heart-disease

That is another stupid comment. There are more vegetarians in India because they are prone to heart disease.

just_dregalicious says

No matter. They kept starving and were on the brink again in the 60s until the Ford Foundation stepped in

Now they use that tech to export tons of rice. They are one of the biggest producers.

Now that is a intelligent comment without facts. They kept starving because they wanted to follow the russia model of communism after independence. Once that prime minister was dead then they started using capitalist model and now have more grains to export.

indc says

That is another stupid comment. There are more vegetarians in India because they are prone to heart disease.

It's also true of Hindus in Singapore and elsewhere. Lacking good cholesterol from lean meat is probably a major cause:

https://caravandaily.com/fewer-muslim-men-suffer-from-heart-disease-cancer-than-hindus-christians-report/

Srivastava, Ashirbadi Lal "Akbar The Great" (Vol 1, 1962)
p169: "When the military campaign was making a successful progress in the eastern provinces, Gujarat in the west was, in 1574-1575, in the throes of a dreadful famine and epidemic, the like of which had not been seen or heard in living memory. Both lasted for five to six months. The famine was not caused by drought or the failure of occasional rains, but was due to destruction wrought by prolonged wars and rebellions, constant marching and counter marching of troops, to the killings of men on a large scale, and the break-down of administrative machinery and the economic system. The historian Muhammad Arif Qandhari rightly observes that the plague and famine occurred not only on account of the contamination of water and air but also because of the misrule and oppression of the Afghans, the Abyssinians and the Mirzas. The epidemic, which was most probably plague, preceded the famine. The calamity was wide spread and covered the whole of Gujarat, and a large number of inhabitants of all grades left the province. The mortality was so high that on an average one hundred cart loads of dead bodies were every day taken out for burial from the city of Ahmedabad alone, and it was impossible to find for them graves and grave cloths. They were interred in pits with earth thrown over them. The severity was equally felt in the towns and districts of Broach, Pattan and Baroda, and in fact in the whole of Gujarat. On account of scarcity the price of maize (jowar), a coarse grain, rose to 120 brass tankas (equivalent to six rupees) for a maund. Grass and fodder for horses and other animals were not available, and these had to be fed on the bark of trees.
There is nothing on record to show that the government undertook any relief measures. Abul Fazl, the court historian, is silent on the calamity. Had Akbar ordered any kind of relief, he must certainly not have missed the opportunity of praising his royal patron on that account."
[Sources:] M.A.Q. [Muhammad Arif Qandhari, "Tarikh-i-Akbar Shahi"] pp319-321 (detailed account), T.A. Vol. II, p 301, M.T. [Abdul Qadir Badayuni, "Muntakhab-ut-Tawarikh"] Vol II, p186 (3 lines), M.R. [Mulla Abad ul Baqt Mahavandi? (title illegible)] Vol I, p825"
Nizamu-d Din Ahmad (trans. H.M. Elliot) "Tabakat-i Akbari" (in "The History of India, as Told By Its Own Historians" vol. 5, 1873)
p384: [events of the 19th year of Akbar's reign (1574-5 CE)] "In this year a great pestilence (waba) and famine occurred in Gujarat, and lasted for nearly six months. From the severity of these calamities, the inhabitants, rich and poor, fled the country, and were scattered abroad. For all this, grain rose to the price of 120 tankas per man [Footnote: "Jawdri rose to the price of 120 black tankas per man."- Badauni, vol. II, p. 186], and horses and cows had to feed upon the bark of trees."
http://www.vinlandmap.info/india-famine/m1574.htm

Dude. Russians and Brits don't matter. Even the US wouldn't have our millions without that tech much less a billion indians.

It was the American tech.

Why would anybody have to fight to get original knowledge back, unless they lost it in the first place. In that case, anybody who adopts it and improves on it could be regarded as a preservationist.

OccasionalCortex says

just_dregalicious says

What an odd post.

It's been a while but I used to see posts like these all the time over at NextBigFuture. It's a 'thing' by nationalist Hindu Indians who are trying to shore up their crappy collective self-esteem from being a third world shithole.

Hence why I learned long ago how to respond to these trolls. Notice how I went straight for the jugular and he balked?

What do you mean I balked? Only in your imagination. I did not see even 1 intelligent comment is all this discussion other than finger pointing.

One more time, when will this guy realize that there was a United States of the Ancient World. It's named was not Uncle Sam but Uncle Cyrus.

So if you want to say that foreigners stole your knowledge base and distributed it around the globe, then start with the year 559 BC.

https://www.ancient.eu/Achaemenid_Empire



Notice something above, all corners of the known ancient world are connected, the Numidian, the Ethiopian, the Greek side, the Soviet/Russian Steppic Side, China, and yes, India at Ghandhara.

And now, you can then blame your real enemies and those were the Muslims, who terrorized those regions, after the fall of Persia (650 AD), up until the Moghul invasion where Timur's (the 2nd Sword of Islam or perhaps the 3rd or 4th, since ppl lose count of stupid Mullah/Barbarian warlords) lineage attacked India, starting with Babur, and controlled it up until the British Raj.

Here's another question:

If the British got so fat and rich, and that prosperity largely due to controlling Indian Pepper, Tea, and Cotton: Why isn't India after independence, and without having to transfer the wealth from these crops to London, poorer than the UK?

"You robbed our agriculture and all your wealth came from it.
Okay, well, we're gone now and been gone almost a century- how come you ain't rich now?"

You can pretty much ask this question of any post-colonial country.

just_dregalicious says

Dude. Russians and Brits don't matter. Even the US wouldn't have our millions without that tech much less a billion indians.

It was the American tech.

What do you mean by American tech. Fertilizer? Different types of grains?

Why is US looking to not use their own tech now?

Ceffer says

Why would anybody have to fight to get original knowledge back, unless they lost it in the first place. In that case, anybody who adopts it and improves on it could be regarded as a preservationist.

That is a good point. British were good at brain washing Indians. No worries in another 15 years this will happen.

NoCoupForYou says

If the British got so fat and rich, and that prosperity largely due to controlling Indian Pepper, Tea, and Cotton: Why isn't India after independence, and without having to transfer the wealth from these crops to London, poorer than the UK?

"You robbed our agriculture and all your wealth came from it.
Okay, well, we're gone now and been gone almost a century- how come you ain't rich now?"

You can pretty much ask this question of any post-colonial country.

To be fair, Mountbatten relinquished the Viceroy for the Nehru dynasty. The one which ended with both assassinations of Indira Gandhi and her successor son.

And yes, she was one of the worse PMs for a non-communist, free, modern society running it like a banana republic.

So in defense of the OP but at the same time, being real, I'd say that India's true independence was in 1991 and so it's a nascent republic.

I'll tell you one idea they took from India. San Fran went full on to shitting in public....just like they do in the Ganges.

But where I depart from this guy is that know of a lot of Indians in Malaysia and none of them want to go back to India as they've made a new homeland for themselves and just like India, Malaysia and its neighbor, Singapore, were also under the British flag but they don't say that their societies and cultures were destroyed by the Empire. And the same goes for Bahrain, which believe it or not, is the freer of the loser Arab archipelago of UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia. Yemen, & Oman.

Rin says

To be fair, Mountbatten relinquished the Viceroy for the Nehru dynasty. The one which ended with both assassinations of Indira Gandhi and her successor son.

And yes, she was one of the worse PMs for a non-communist, free, modern society running it like a banana republic.

So in defense of the OP but at the same time, being real, I'd say that India's true independence was in 1991 and so it's a nascent republic.

Yes, also Congress Party gave themselves hugeass loans for agraculture and industry, then defaulted on them and stuck the default on the state.

They also used the free loan to buy up lots of independent farmland.

NoCoupForYou says

Here's another question:

If the British got so fat and rich, and that prosperity largely due to controlling Indian Pepper, Tea, and Cotton: Why isn't India after independence, and without having to transfer the wealth from these crops to London, poorer than the UK?

"You robbed our agriculture and all your wealth came from it.
Okay, well, we're gone now and been gone almost a century- how come you ain't rich now?"

You can pretty much ask this question of any post-colonial country.

India will do it once they realize the knowledge they had. Right now they have 2 enemies on their border so have to spend major part of their GDP on defense. And also the west doesn't impose extra taxes like royalties on using their own knowledge and carbon tax.

Rin says

But where I depart from this guy is that know of a lot of Indians in Malaysia and none of them want to go back to India as they've made a new homeland for themselves and just like India, Malaysia and its neighbor, Singapore, were also under the British flag but they don't say that their societies and cultures were destroyed by the Empire. And the same goes for Bahrain, which believe it or not, is the freer of the loser Arab archipelago of UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia. Yemen, & Oman.

Malaysian-Indians are all transplants because of british rule. What native culture will they have in malaysia? Once you move people they will not have any affinity to their culture.

With my thesis statement and that's that the free, modern India started with the death of Rajiv Gandhi, post 1991 ...

how about formulating a strategy so that India can became a super economy, not too distinct from let's say a South Korea, within the next generation, without blaming the modern west (see Cold War NATO members), the ancient (see Cyrus the Great) west, the Moghuls (see medieval barbarians), and anyone else, who may have stolen the treasuries of India's past?

I just don't get the hate. Most westerners like people with Indian heritage. Go back far enough and we're all indo-european.

just_dregalicious says

I just don't get the hate. Most westerners like people with Indian heritage. Go back far enough and we're all indo-european.

There is no hate or malice in my comment. It is the powers to be that dont want India reach its full potential. I said west i.e people in power. Not ordinary people most of whom don't even have complete truth.