patrick.net

Let's see if he's right.

(cross posted from another thread because it's a classic example of media spin to make any good news about Trump look bad)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-and-other-autoimmune-drugs-dont-fully-protect-against-coronavirus-early-data-suggest-11587222001 (paywall!)

Hydroxychloroquine and Other Autoimmune Drugs Don’t Fully Protect Against Coronavirus, Early Data Suggest

Dozens of people taking hydroxychloroquine and other treatments for chronic rheumatologic diseases have become infected with Covid-19, according to an analysis of emerging data that is a sign the drugs may not protect people from the new coronavirus.

More than five dozen people with chronic ailments like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis were taking medications such as hydroxychloroquine before being diagnosed with the coronavirus, according to data compiled by the Global Rheumatology Alliance, a coalition of rheumatologists,...

Damn, is that some impressive negative spin or what? Doesn't "Fully" protect.

So that means it does protect to some degree. Why isn't that the title?

Doesn't "Fully" protect.

Neither does a vaccine "fully" protect. In fact, a flu vaccine is only about 1/3 effective. So I guess the author of "Hydroxychloroquine and Other Autoimmune Drugs Don’t Fully Protect Against Coronavirus, Early Data Suggest" would condemn vaccines as well.

HeadSet says

Doesn't "Fully" protect.

Neither does a vaccine "fully" protect. In fact, a flu vaccine is only about 1/3 effective. So I guess the author of "Hydroxychloroquine and Other Autoimmune Drugs Don’t Fully Protect Against Coronavirus, Early Data Suggest" would condemn vaccines as well.

Bingo!!! This isn't going away as a virus. It will probably be with us for decades regardless of a vaccine. A good amount of people pass because of the flu, HAVE been vaccinated. We're at the death count of the average flu roughly right now WITHOUT a vaccine that wouldl likely be 30-40% effective. There's no silver bullet here, it's a god damn virus... nature and all that (maybe manufactured).

We're at the point in this where people are asking a POTUS to stop a fucking hurricane(s) as a weather event. I hope people are seeing how retarded they sound.... The people all negative on this are asking the equivalent of asking one human to stop a hurricane and pretend like that is even possible. Stupidity has no bounds at this point. Open. The. Fuck. UP.

Apparently the new talking point is that the protestors should become victims of Darwinism. If this were Ebola, they might have a point. A biology teacher (yes a high school bio teacher) that I used to work with posted a meme that says:

"If you don't want to quarantine, that's ok" -Charles Darwin

Now...this is stupid on many levels. Given that the fatality rate among people below age 20 is essentially zero...this has nothing to do with survival. I endanger myself more commuting to work everyday in New Jersey down Rt 78 where I've been run off the road at 80 mph. The fatality rate doesn't rise much going all the way up to age 60. And...given that we are finding a ton of evidence of how many people are asymptomatic....those fatality rates are dramatically decreasing. Young people protesting has nothing to do with Darwinism and this is a classic example of a left leaning high school biology teacher not being able to even apply a simple concept that they are paid to teach. The only thing Darwin would say is that this virus does take out the weak and unhealthy.

Darwin might argue that we allow this to run through the population as quickly as possible to establish herd immunity prior to it mutating.



These types of messages should be targeted a few people....overweight people, people with heart disease, blood pressure, or diabetes. And elderly.

This virus is not super deadly. The only reason I am in support of this temporary lockdown is because the virus is rapidly transmissive and it runs through us very fast and reaches those that are susceptible. That being said...our current course is completely unsustainable economically and we will basically have the summer (where transmission is likely to decrease) to get our asses in gear. People will have to resume work with masks on. Susceptible population will have to shelter in place. Social distancing should still be practiced. And once we can vaccinate this (which I believe will be by the winter), this is just going to be another virus on the list.

People keep saying "this is not like the flu". All indicators are, it is no more deadly. They can't put together that the flu would do the same thing if we didn't have any immunity or vaccinations. They might be more correct in saying that the effect on society and danger exceeds that of the flu right now.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/03/30/twitter-removes-jair-bolsonaros-tweets-about-chinese-virus/

Twitter took down two tweets from Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, citing its policy against misinformation related to the Chinese coronavirus, despite refusing to take down misinformation from Chinese officials about the virus last week.

The deleted videos consist of videos of Bolsonaro discussing the Chinese virus with Brazilian citizens, emphasizing the need to balance concern about the pandemic with economic reality. ...

Responding to a request for comment, a Twitter spokeswoman cited the platform’s new rules against misinformation, which Breitbart News reported on earlier this month. According to the spokeswoman, the rules cover content that “could be against public health information provided by official sources and could put people at greater risk of transmitting COVID-19.”

However, as Breitbart News reported last week, Twitter has not clamped down on misinformation about the virus posted by Chinese officials, even after U.S. lawmakers have brought it to their attention.

Great example of a Chinese Propaganda piece:

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/western-relations-with-china-after-covid19-by-chris-patten-2020-04

Handwave away China concerns as long term, auxiliary concerns, but blame Trump.

All of China has total deaths half that of just the Madrid Area of Spain? BULLSHIT.

death by bullet to the head is NOT corona virus.

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I doubt it, but I understand the cult members such as Adams wanting to defend their loyalty to great leader.

Closer to the truth :

What primarily drives support for Trump is the relentless hate for Trump in the press regardless of what he does.

To effectively oppose Trump instead of increasing and hardening support for him, it would help tremendously to at least try to look impartial and not driven purely by irrational implacable hatred.

It's kinda basic psychology, but all the Trump haters overlook it because they are literally whacking off to hate every day. They are addicted to their daily masturbatory hate. And this is a huge benefit to Trump, who looks much better with this kind of nutty opposition than he would otherwise.

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Patrick says

It's kinda basic psychology, but all the Trump haters overlook it because they are literally whacking off to hate every day

I think you've got it backwards as to where the really toxic hate lives in all of this. It's not like this country wasn't politically polarized before 2016. And it's not as if Trump Cultists didn't vote for a political figure that was 100% guaranteed to take us toward being more polarized. Many centrists and liberals despise Trump for many reasons that were very clear before he was even elected (losing the popular vote).

The idea that Trump Cultists would be less forgiving of everything Trump if their political enemies weren't constantly reminding them of who he is, what he says and what he does? Give me a break. The Trump Cultists would be just as much of a cult of personality, and they would be would be repeating the same nonsense about how great of a President he is 24/7. Some people just have too much pride.

Look, I get it. Trump Cultists have their reasons for undying loyalty to Trump.

They voted for Trump and they want to be right.

Isn't that kinda basic psychology ?

@marcus Please try to keep it about the topic and not about any other user personally.

The point is that the rabidly insane levels of hate for Trump actually garner him a lot of support.

Is that true? That's what we should be debating.

We want the same things, more or less, but we disagree on how to get there, that's all.

Tim, Please try to keep it about the topic and not about any other user personally.

Does the hate for Trump increase his support or not?

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Patrick says

@marcus Please try to keep it about the topic and not about any other user personally.

Patrick says

but all the Trump haters overlook it because they are literally whacking off to hate every day. They are addicted to their daily masturbatory hate.

Okay, deal. You're not talking about me here, and I'm not talking about you when I say Trump cultists above. Or am I ?

Tim Aurora says

What you consider as hate is disdain for his childish and stupid behavior.

No. it's hate.

Tim Aurora says

@Patrick. It's your prerogative to support Trump or any other schmuck. What you consider as hate is disdain for his childish and stupid behavior. and his policies ( or which we differ a lot)

Patrick says

@marcus What primarily drives support for Trump is the relentless hate for Trump in the press regardless of what he does.

Disdain is everyone's prerogative, but would you rather take the bus with a bus driver you have disdain for due to his lack of intellect or class in your pov but who drives pretty well, or take the bus with an intellectual class act who doesn't have a driver's license? The policies matter not whether Trump could be your best buddy or not.

Furthermore more I'd argue despite his brash behavior sometimes and overachiever talk Trump is still more honest that the mainstream cabal on both sides of the aisle. I'd take an honest simpleton over a deceiving politician who is polished on the outside anytime.

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I fixed it Patrick.

marcus says

:
I fixed it Patrick.

Thank you @marcus

Sorry, trying to fix the moderation system to prevent people from easily evading it. It had everything new by you flagged for a few minutes, but shouldn't do that anymore.

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So how do you like 105 and 109 now ?

marcus says

:
So how do you like 105 and 109 now ?

Yes, @marcus that is better, thanks.

Seriously, just trying to keep it about points we all have an interest in debating, and not about the other users personally.

mell says

Tim Aurora says

What you consider as hate is disdain for his childish and stupid behavior. and his policies ( or which we differ a lot)

OK, let's debate Trump's policies!

That would be fantastic, a huge step toward everyone benefiting from debate.

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Patrick says

not about the other users personally.

But you're original point was addressed to me @marcus and referred to whacking off to Trump hate.

dude.

Anyway, I'm kind of proud of #109 above. I guess I'm easily amused.

Didn't say you do that.

Complaining about the Trump haters in general, and the media in particular.

Will remove the quote and @ sign. Thanks.

OK, https://patrick.net/post/1331299?80#comment-1665105 is edited now.

Not claiming to be a saint, but am making a serious effort to keep it about points and not the other users personally.

It is a difficult thing.

marcus says

Okay, deal. You're not talking about me here, and I'm not talking about you when I say Trump cultists above. Or am I ?

Right, let's not do that. Let's get far away from personal accusations and talk about Trump's policies.

How about Trump's opposition to illegals? That seems like an excellent thing for poor working Americans, especially black Americans, who will see their wages rise in exact proportion to the number of illegals deported and kept out.

House builders, slaughterhouse, and restaurants all hate the idea, because it would cause their cost of labor to rise. But it is the right and just thing to do, and in addition greatly benefits the economy overall simply because poor US citizens spend what they get and don't send it to Mexico or Guatemala.

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I didn't mind. And I also thought you shouldn't have minded my interpretation of where you were coming from with your comment, even if I suggested that your pride or ego was involved in the opinion you had just expressed.

Which isn't that much different than what you said, about masturbatory hate.

Turns out that even when one thinks they are being patriotic, sometimes it's more ego and desire to be right than it is grounded in reality. And that can be said of both sides. Although it's going to be true of one side more than the other.

One problem is even simply the word "you" or "your".

That immediately makes things personal. Maybe it actually was a good idea to highlight "you" and "your" in red.

The Trump haters do indeed seem to get a weird almost sexual pleasure out of hating him. (No use of "you" or "your" there, not talking about you. Trying to be general.)

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Truth is that "you" and "i" were going to be what we were talking about anyway in that exchange. Sometimes the avoiding it being personal goes to far, but then again, I know the rule is necessary, becasue otherwise things break down. I get that.

marcus says

sometimes it's more ego and desire to be right than it is grounded in reality

Totally agree. Who wants to be wrong? No one.

One useful technique: if you have to say "you" when addressing what someone actually said, it's psychologically less painful to say "perhaps you overlooked X" than to directly accuse them of being wrong. Everyone overlooks things now and then.

It's valid to say "you said" because that's central to debate. People say things and it's necessary to quote them. And "perhaps you overlooked" is very different from "you're wrong, fucker."

Patrick says

The Trump haters do indeed seem to get a weird almost sexual pleasure out of hating him. (No use of "you" or "your" there, not talking about you. Trying to be general.)

Either that, or he really is a terrible and dangerous President that is worse than any President in my lifetime, and they simply want him out of there. I know that in your view that's impossible.

Maybe what liberals really do hate is the "fuck you" aspect Trump supporters repeatedly admitted to having when electing a President becasue going to do a lot (even some really bad stuff - such as with the environment) but they like it specifically becasue it pisses off liberals. That alone is a bonus to a lot of Trump voters. So tell me who are the real haters ?

Patrick says

It's kinda basic psychology, but all the Trump haters overlook it because they are literally whacking off to hate every day. They are addicted to their daily masturbatory hate. And this is a huge benefit to Trump, who looks much better with this kind of nutty opposition than he would otherwise.

Leftists hate Genetics, owning up to the legacy of the New Society, and the effectiveness of 3-strikes Criminal Policy, the failure of closing down public mental health facilities, among other things.

Their answer is to always double down. If Welfare didn't work, the answer is better benefits and less restrictions. They forgot the 90s era Community Policing and 3-strikes was in response to the wave of Criminal Terror the Dems unleashed in the 60s-80s by weakening enforcement, doing away with the death penalty, and expanding parole and early release.

This is why they eventually lose, they moved from decriminalizing gay behavior which most supported, to allowing gay marriage which only a plurality supported, now they want to force all K-12 to have unisex bathrooms and accept all claims of 13-year old M2F Trans, and the teen girls and their parents will just have to "Suck It". Then they pressure companies and states to boycott other states that require official recorded sex use of bathrooms, rather than the person's perceived gender of that day.

They always cross a line.

marcus says

Democrats 1960-2008: Question Authority. The CIA, the Corporations, and Academics and especially the Media are all looking out for each other, and the Man, not you, man. Don't trust 'em, man.
Democrats 2008- : If you question the Authorities, you're a dangerous Populist. The CIA, the Corporations, and Academics and especially the Media are all looking out for your best interest, man. Trust them utterly, man.

Or in pithy meme form:



Again, Trump's most vital purpose is exposing the Anti-American Oikophobes for their end goals. When they were at odds with most of society, their goal was to question and undermine every part of society. Now that they dominate the Media, Academia, Large Corps, Silicon Valley, etc. - the Clerisy - they demand total obedience in the name of social cohesion, while their real goal is to "radically transform America" using those institutions they now control.

The historical example would be the Jesuits: When Princes became Protestant, sometimes ruling Catholic majorities, like Queen Elizabeth I, the Jesuits pushed the Unjust Ruler mentality, that a Catholic should seek to undermine Protestant rulers regardless of their secular legitimacy. When many Catholic Princes came to rule over Protestant Heavy areas, like James II of Great Britain or Phillip II, they did a complete 180 and demanded all Catholics obey their Monarchs, chosen by God, to the nth Degree without question.

marcus says

he really is a terrible and dangerous President

Let's talk about specific Trump policies. Which of his policies are you opposed to?

marcus says

Maybe what liberals really do hate is the "fuck you" aspect Trump supporters repeatedly admitted to having when electing a President becasue going to do a lot (even some really bad stuff - such as with the environment)

I, for one, Voted against Hillary. Sad that we had to choose between a sociopath and a reality show playboy.

Trump's message was, "Make America Great Again". Hillary's message was "You're are deplorable if you vote against ME and for that racist, sexist, womanizing, homopho...".

Many voted against Hillary or for Trump. More voted for Hillary or against Trump. Trump just had the smarter game plan.

Onvacation says

we had to choose between a sociopath and a reality show playboy

Yup. But a reality show playboy with a plan for America to escape dependency on China and to stem the flood of illegals.

Trump's policies are generally very good for the country.

This one should blow your mind.

UV Treatment of Blood was used fairly extensively in the past; a NY Writer got this companies Product Demo Video removed from Youtube for "Violating Community Guidelines", and he's proud of it.



That's right, the media is now targeting Biotech startups if their product seems to support an offhand Trump remark.