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It's not looking good for the Texas vigilante killing.
invite response
2020 May 10, 8:58pm 7,361 views 243 comments
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64
WookieMan
2020 May 13, 12:25pm
WookieMan
2020 May 13, 12:25pm
astronut97 says
I don't know what stage this home was in construction or renovation, but it's SOP in IL, especially city, for the builder/owner to make sure the property is secure so the tradespeople can leave their tools on site. You'd lose an hour every day loading and unloading tools with certain trades. Time is money for everyone when building or renovating.
Yes, it's normal for kids to enter a vacant home that are under construction. I've never heard of an adult doing it with no contractors on site. It's trespassing at minimum and most definitely suspicious. White, black, brown, yellow, etc. The only time it's appropriate to even enter someone's yard is to grab a real estate flyer or to knock on the door to present yourself and ask a question if you don't know the owner. Otherwise, just stay on the public easement/sidewalk or the street. Zero reason to enter a random persons property EVER regardless of occupancy. You're only asking for negative outcomes, regardless of who you are.
I'm trying to figure out what planet most of you Patnetters are from because on my planet it's pretty normal to walk through a house that is under construction and look around. My wife and I do it all the time in my neighborhood near downtown Orlando. Also, I've never seen any expensive tools lying around an unsecured construction site just the occasional screwdriver or putty knife. The guys that I know that work construction keep their tools locked in their truck storage compartments.
I don't know what stage this home was in construction or renovation, but it's SOP in IL, especially city, for the builder/owner to make sure the property is secure so the tradespeople can leave their tools on site. You'd lose an hour every day loading and unloading tools with certain trades. Time is money for everyone when building or renovating.
Yes, it's normal for kids to enter a vacant home that are under construction. I've never heard of an adult doing it with no contractors on site. It's trespassing at minimum and most definitely suspicious. White, black, brown, yellow, etc. The only time it's appropriate to even enter someone's yard is to grab a real estate flyer or to knock on the door to present yourself and ask a question if you don't know the owner. Otherwise, just stay on the public easement/sidewalk or the street. Zero reason to enter a random persons property EVER regardless of occupancy. You're only asking for negative outcomes, regardless of who you are.
65
Ceffer
2020 May 13, 12:35pm
Ceffer
2020 May 13, 12:35pm
With the ghetto paratrooper drops, we have had the pleasure of the obvious minority 'casers' who are not exactly subtle in the way they walk around sizing up opportunities.
Can't look directly at them, or they snarl, spit, and give you the prison yard stare. It's one of the routine pleasures of living even in the nice parts of Oakland, now grafted over.
Can't look directly at them, or they snarl, spit, and give you the prison yard stare. It's one of the routine pleasures of living even in the nice parts of Oakland, now grafted over.
66
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 13, 1:10pm
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 13, 1:10pm
NoCoupForYou says
Yes Citizen's arrests are fine unless you botch it, and somebody dies.
What if someone walking or driving past also got some of those three shotgun blasts?
I think man slaughter charges should always be at least investigated in every homicide, where it is clear someone was not at home or on their own property or protecting themselves. If you're going to approach anyone fleeing your area with a gun, then you are the aggressor, all rights to claiming defense is gone. They were the aggressor, trying to defend after the fact. If you're going to play Charles Bronson, then you need to at least be bad ass enough to keep a grip on the situation at all time.
If you're not willing to knock a few teeth down the fleeing suspect's throat with the butt of the weapon, when he charges you for the shotgun. Then you probably should just leave it up to the Police to get caught up in another Race embroiled political snafu killing.
Because you never know when the fleeing suspect is going to chimp out and that's what you'll have to do.
Citizen's Arrests are 100% legal according to Georgia Law, if you catch somebody in the middle of committing a crime.
Yes Citizen's arrests are fine unless you botch it, and somebody dies.
What if someone walking or driving past also got some of those three shotgun blasts?
I think man slaughter charges should always be at least investigated in every homicide, where it is clear someone was not at home or on their own property or protecting themselves. If you're going to approach anyone fleeing your area with a gun, then you are the aggressor, all rights to claiming defense is gone. They were the aggressor, trying to defend after the fact. If you're going to play Charles Bronson, then you need to at least be bad ass enough to keep a grip on the situation at all time.
If you're not willing to knock a few teeth down the fleeing suspect's throat with the butt of the weapon, when he charges you for the shotgun. Then you probably should just leave it up to the Police to get caught up in another Race embroiled political snafu killing.
Because you never know when the fleeing suspect is going to chimp out and that's what you'll have to do.
67
GNL
2020 May 13, 8:34pm
GNL
2020 May 13, 8:34pm
Onvacation says
From what I can see, the gun isn't pointed at him until he grabs it. Sooo, he pointed it at himself. What. An. Idiot.
iWineHorror1 saysCan you show me where a gun was pointed at him please?
You can't shoot someone if the gun isn't pointed at someone.
Why do you suppose Arbery attacked an armed man?
From what I can see, the gun isn't pointed at him until he grabs it. Sooo, he pointed it at himself. What. An. Idiot.
68
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 7:40am
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 7:40am
Ultimately actions have consequences. Even if the dude was legit out for a run, his first action that set off a chain reaction was to trespass on someone else's property, which is a crime albeit a minor one and probably shouldn't result in loss of life. It was a completely unnecessary action/act though.
I liken it to a personal story that doesn't involve people dying or crimes. Just a thought exercise based on a real life incident.
My wife was baking some shit up with one of my sons. She had set a stick of butter out to let it soften. My son thought he was being helpful and moved it to the table they were going to be mixing on (lower to the ground). We did some other stuff in the meantime outside. One of my dogs was able to reach the butter on the table and ate the entire stick. Shortly after he found the one rug in our house on the main level and hurled up the butter. My other dog said I need to get in on this action and literally ate huge chunks out of the rug to get every last bit of butter, destroying the rug.
Who is at fault here? Why did the rug get destroyed? Was it my sons fault or the dogs? I know the answer but would be interested to see what others think as this has no political or race bias'. One wrong action can fuck up the rest of your life, especially illegal ones.
I liken it to a personal story that doesn't involve people dying or crimes. Just a thought exercise based on a real life incident.
My wife was baking some shit up with one of my sons. She had set a stick of butter out to let it soften. My son thought he was being helpful and moved it to the table they were going to be mixing on (lower to the ground). We did some other stuff in the meantime outside. One of my dogs was able to reach the butter on the table and ate the entire stick. Shortly after he found the one rug in our house on the main level and hurled up the butter. My other dog said I need to get in on this action and literally ate huge chunks out of the rug to get every last bit of butter, destroying the rug.
Who is at fault here? Why did the rug get destroyed? Was it my sons fault or the dogs? I know the answer but would be interested to see what others think as this has no political or race bias'. One wrong action can fuck up the rest of your life, especially illegal ones.
69
elliemae
2020 May 14, 7:57am
elliemae
2020 May 14, 7:57am
WookieMan says
The owner of the house had no problem with his being there.
WookieMan says
Always blame it on the dog.
WookieMan says
See answer #1
WookieMan says
A talking dog? Put that dog in the movies, that dog should be a STAR! All mine can say is "roof" when I ask where her ball is.
Even if the dude was legit out for a run, his first action that set off a chain reaction was to trespass on someone else's property, which is a crime albeit a minor one and probably shouldn't result in loss of life.
The owner of the house had no problem with his being there.
WookieMan says
Who is at fault here
Always blame it on the dog.
WookieMan says
Why did the rug get destroyed?
See answer #1
WookieMan says
My other dog said I need to get in on this action
A talking dog? Put that dog in the movies, that dog should be a STAR! All mine can say is "roof" when I ask where her ball is.
70
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 8:27am
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 8:27am
elliemae says
Trespassing is trespassing though. If the owner didn't explicitly invite Ahmaud, then it's trespassing regardless of whether or not the owner wants/would press charges. Anytime you enter someone else's property, regardless of condition or open doors, there's always a risk. He got confronted by concerned neighbors and he made a bad decision, because he was likely planning something in the future and was worried he'd was caught. His reaction was not normal by any stretch.
You can argue the hillbilly's reaction was just as dumb, the problem is, it would have never happened if he just didn't enter a random house under construction. If people think they just gunned him down because he was black walking down the street, you've been spun. None of this happens if he was legit out for a walk or run.
Also, it was my sons fault. Rug would still be here today if he never had moved the butter. The dogs were the hillbilly shooters. Give them an opportunity and they'll take it.
The owner of the house had no problem with his being there.
Trespassing is trespassing though. If the owner didn't explicitly invite Ahmaud, then it's trespassing regardless of whether or not the owner wants/would press charges. Anytime you enter someone else's property, regardless of condition or open doors, there's always a risk. He got confronted by concerned neighbors and he made a bad decision, because he was likely planning something in the future and was worried he'd was caught. His reaction was not normal by any stretch.
You can argue the hillbilly's reaction was just as dumb, the problem is, it would have never happened if he just didn't enter a random house under construction. If people think they just gunned him down because he was black walking down the street, you've been spun. None of this happens if he was legit out for a walk or run.
Also, it was my sons fault. Rug would still be here today if he never had moved the butter. The dogs were the hillbilly shooters. Give them an opportunity and they'll take it.
71
Bd6r
2020 May 14, 9:46am
Bd6r
2020 May 14, 9:46am
If owner would have shot him, that is one thing. If a random other person shoots, then it becomes very different. Just call the damned police and/or owner, if you know him. If you do not know the owner, then how do you know that guy snooping about the house is a criminal and not owner's son-in-law?
In our neck of woods, it is OK to walk through house being built in your neighborhood. I would not do it in a place I am not familiar with, but in our block or neighboring ones I have done it myself.
In our neck of woods, it is OK to walk through house being built in your neighborhood. I would not do it in a place I am not familiar with, but in our block or neighboring ones I have done it myself.
72
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 14, 9:55am
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 14, 9:55am
WineHorror1 says
Agreed most botched endeavors are unplanned reactions from others.
From what I can see, the gun isn't pointed at him until he grabs it. Sooo, he pointed it at himself. What. An. Idiot.
Agreed most botched endeavors are unplanned reactions from others.
73
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 14, 9:58am
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 14, 9:58am
In many places, entering construction sites has a long tradition of being met with violence. For concern over the tools & material, much less the property itself.
74
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 10:00am
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 10:00am
rd6B says
Sure you can do it, most builders/rehabbers would go ballistic by me if they had people walking through a construction site without permission. Construction workers are generally licensed, bonded and insured. A random citizen walks through and falls down stairs with no railing or a balcony area with no railing and dies or severely injures themselves, it's a massive lawsuit regardless of trespassing.
Had a builder show one of their homes under construction to a prospective buyer, with a broker. Woman/client broke her ankle. $700k later and increased insurance premiums and you can guess the builder and broker were not too thrilled. Ultimately it's up to the owner/builder to secure a property, but I'm kind of shocked about the "no big deal" attitude here from adults walking on construction sites that aren't their property. It's illegal and secondly a lot more dangerous than most people think. You have zero idea what has and hasn't been safely secured before workers left.
Now if there is a crew or owner on site, that's a different story. Clearly no one was there in this case.
In our neck of woods, it is OK to walk through house being built in your neighborhood. I would not do it in a place I am not familiar with, but in our block or neighboring ones I have done it myself.
Sure you can do it, most builders/rehabbers would go ballistic by me if they had people walking through a construction site without permission. Construction workers are generally licensed, bonded and insured. A random citizen walks through and falls down stairs with no railing or a balcony area with no railing and dies or severely injures themselves, it's a massive lawsuit regardless of trespassing.
Had a builder show one of their homes under construction to a prospective buyer, with a broker. Woman/client broke her ankle. $700k later and increased insurance premiums and you can guess the builder and broker were not too thrilled. Ultimately it's up to the owner/builder to secure a property, but I'm kind of shocked about the "no big deal" attitude here from adults walking on construction sites that aren't their property. It's illegal and secondly a lot more dangerous than most people think. You have zero idea what has and hasn't been safely secured before workers left.
Now if there is a crew or owner on site, that's a different story. Clearly no one was there in this case.
75
Bd6r
2020 May 14, 10:16am
Bd6r
2020 May 14, 10:16am
WookieMan says
IL must have a different reality from TX
Construction workers are picked up under Highway 59 in Houston, where illegals congregate looking for work. Only a few qualified ones actually work for the builder.
Construction workers are generally licensed, bonded and insured.
IL must have a different reality from TX
Construction workers are picked up under Highway 59 in Houston, where illegals congregate looking for work. Only a few qualified ones actually work for the builder.
76
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 10:22am
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 10:22am
OccasionalCortex says
Exactly, I admitted as much in an earlier comment. 25 is not a kid though. Kids shouldn't do it either as well, but that's harder to stop unless you're going to be a hover parent 24/7. Adults should know better.
rd6B says
This happens in IL as well, but it's usually just day labor. Very few quality construction guys will keep those guys on if they're illegal. Whoever hires them still would generally be on the hook for any issues that happened on site.
If you've been building for 2+ years and haven't been sued, you're doing it wrong. lol. It's a very litigious business from defects to injuries. If I was building, and your aren't working on the house or the client, you ain't stepping foot in the place. Any builder that doesn't care about random trespassers is looking to go out of business from just one fall/death.
Especially when we were kids.
Exactly, I admitted as much in an earlier comment. 25 is not a kid though. Kids shouldn't do it either as well, but that's harder to stop unless you're going to be a hover parent 24/7. Adults should know better.
rd6B says
IL must have a different reality from TX
the construction workers are picked up under Highway 59 in Houston, where illegals congregate looking for work. Only a few qualified ones actually work for the builder.
This happens in IL as well, but it's usually just day labor. Very few quality construction guys will keep those guys on if they're illegal. Whoever hires them still would generally be on the hook for any issues that happened on site.
If you've been building for 2+ years and haven't been sued, you're doing it wrong. lol. It's a very litigious business from defects to injuries. If I was building, and your aren't working on the house or the client, you ain't stepping foot in the place. Any builder that doesn't care about random trespassers is looking to go out of business from just one fall/death.
77
justme
2020 May 14, 10:29am
justme
2020 May 14, 10:29am
Relevant information has come to light:
Ex-detective charged in death of Ahmaud Arbery lost power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training
The former police detective whose actions in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia were defended as a citizen's arrest was stripped of his law enforcement certification and power to arrest a year before the deadly encounter, according to personnel records acquired by The Washington Post.
Gregory McMichael's certification was suspended in February 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to documents from the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's Office, including a warning in 2014 that McMichael had neglected to finish mandatory firearms and use-of-force courses.
...
...
A February 2019 memo signed by McMichael and other officials in the district attorney's office stated he "will not engage in any activity that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature."
"To that end, Mr. McMichael will not carry a firearm or badge, nor will he operate any vehicle in the motor pool outfitted with lights, siren or police radio equipment," the memo stated.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ex-detective-charged-in-death-of-Ahmaud-Arbery-15269309.php
Ex-detective charged in death of Ahmaud Arbery lost power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training
The former police detective whose actions in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia were defended as a citizen's arrest was stripped of his law enforcement certification and power to arrest a year before the deadly encounter, according to personnel records acquired by The Washington Post.
Gregory McMichael's certification was suspended in February 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to documents from the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's Office, including a warning in 2014 that McMichael had neglected to finish mandatory firearms and use-of-force courses.
...
...
A February 2019 memo signed by McMichael and other officials in the district attorney's office stated he "will not engage in any activity that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature."
"To that end, Mr. McMichael will not carry a firearm or badge, nor will he operate any vehicle in the motor pool outfitted with lights, siren or police radio equipment," the memo stated.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ex-detective-charged-in-death-of-Ahmaud-Arbery-15269309.php
78
RC2006
2020 May 14, 11:20am
RC2006
2020 May 14, 11:20am
LOL at arguing motives. Black guy going into strangers house wasn’t just “looking around”. Then somehow running from the scene not in his neighborhood, now he is a “jogger”. Then when confronted by two guys with guns he runs towards them and attacks guy holding a shotgun. Are we going to call every criminal that runs away a jogger now?
If the two guys with guns motive was just to kill the guy there would have never been a struggle the guy would have been shot before he even got close. They had the right to do a citizens arrest and they had the right to have a gun, wither it was a stupid idea or not.
The two guys are not what put everything in motion.
We all know if a white cop showed and got rushed by him, we would have had the same outcome except the officer would have had more legal protections.
Only thing I agree with anyone on is that the two guys were stupid for trying to stop a criminal.
If the two guys with guns motive was just to kill the guy there would have never been a struggle the guy would have been shot before he even got close. They had the right to do a citizens arrest and they had the right to have a gun, wither it was a stupid idea or not.
The two guys are not what put everything in motion.
We all know if a white cop showed and got rushed by him, we would have had the same outcome except the officer would have had more legal protections.
Only thing I agree with anyone on is that the two guys were stupid for trying to stop a criminal.
79
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 12:32pm
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 12:32pm
RC2006 says
That was kind of my point. If he just kept walking down the street there would have been zero problem. Even if he just stopped and was like shit, those guys got guns. Let me just explain what I was doing. Or just make up some shit, the cops come, you have nothing stolen on you so you explain you were just checking out a vacant house. You get hit with a small fine and move on with your life.
I've been confronted by neighbors and cops a couple dozen times breaking into foreclosed properties at the direction of the bank. Some situations got tense. Never once did I ever think of going after the people confronting me or talking shit back to someone. You deescalate the situation if you're there on legal grounds. If you're not, apparently you run and try to grab a guys gun.
Am I taking crazy pills or something? The weapon was legal. If Georgia allows citizen arrests, then the confrontation was legal. The person that was visibly seen entering a property was confronted and decided to go after the people thinking he was there illegally. What am I missing here?
The two guys are not what put everything in motion.
That was kind of my point. If he just kept walking down the street there would have been zero problem. Even if he just stopped and was like shit, those guys got guns. Let me just explain what I was doing. Or just make up some shit, the cops come, you have nothing stolen on you so you explain you were just checking out a vacant house. You get hit with a small fine and move on with your life.
I've been confronted by neighbors and cops a couple dozen times breaking into foreclosed properties at the direction of the bank. Some situations got tense. Never once did I ever think of going after the people confronting me or talking shit back to someone. You deescalate the situation if you're there on legal grounds. If you're not, apparently you run and try to grab a guys gun.
Am I taking crazy pills or something? The weapon was legal. If Georgia allows citizen arrests, then the confrontation was legal. The person that was visibly seen entering a property was confronted and decided to go after the people thinking he was there illegally. What am I missing here?
81
steverbeaver
2020 May 14, 12:41pm
steverbeaver
2020 May 14, 12:41pm
" the two guys were stupid for trying to stop a criminal."
That's the core reason for societal decay though, at least to me. It's not like they were Covid snitchers, they were attempting to maintain civility by enforcing property laws they thought were broken.
That's the core reason for societal decay though, at least to me. It's not like they were Covid snitchers, they were attempting to maintain civility by enforcing property laws they thought were broken.
82
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 12:43pm
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 12:43pm
steverbeaver says
Amen. Doesn't matter how often you/we did it as kids or even adults. It's still an illegal act without permission. There's really not much else to discuss. A chain reaction happened because of the mans decision to enter the property illegally.
they were attempting to maintain civility by enforcing property laws they thought were broken.
Amen. Doesn't matter how often you/we did it as kids or even adults. It's still an illegal act without permission. There's really not much else to discuss. A chain reaction happened because of the mans decision to enter the property illegally.
83
justme
2020 May 14, 1:07pm
justme
2020 May 14, 1:07pm
More from the sfgate article:
>>He (the neighbor Mr. English who was building a house) met Gregory McMichael after Arbery was killed, when McMichael approached him on the property and asked about the video from the day of the killing, according to the statement.
Ghosh, I bet Gregory McMichael is pretty happy that Mr. English did not threaten and chase said Mr. McMichael with a gun and then shoot him (for trespassing onto the construction site and/or for trying to defend himself against a threatening person with a gun). That would have been some real juicy poetic justice, would it not?
>>He (the neighbor Mr. English who was building a house) met Gregory McMichael after Arbery was killed, when McMichael approached him on the property and asked about the video from the day of the killing, according to the statement.
Ghosh, I bet Gregory McMichael is pretty happy that Mr. English did not threaten and chase said Mr. McMichael with a gun and then shoot him (for trespassing onto the construction site and/or for trying to defend himself against a threatening person with a gun). That would have been some real juicy poetic justice, would it not?
84
GNL
2020 May 14, 2:35pm
GNL
2020 May 14, 2:35pm
rd6B says
So, people aren't able to protect their own neighborhood?
If owner would have shot him, that is one thing. If a random other person shoots, then it becomes very different. Just call the damned police and/or owner, if you know him. If you do not know the owner, then how do you know that guy snooping about the house is a criminal and not owner's son-in-law?
In our neck of woods, it is OK to walk through house being built in your neighborhood. I would not do it in a place I am not familiar with, but in our block or neighboring ones I have done it myself.
So, people aren't able to protect their own neighborhood?
85
GNL
2020 May 14, 2:41pm
GNL
2020 May 14, 2:41pm
WookieMan says
Nothing. Don't let assholes gaslight you.
RC2006 saysThe two guys are not what put everything in motion.
That was kind of my point. If he just kept walking down the street there would have been zero problem. Even if he just stopped and was like shit, those guys got guns. Let me just explain what I was doing. Or just make up some shit, the cops come, you have nothing stolen on you so you explain you were just checking out a vacant house. You get hit with a small fine and move on with your life.
I've been confronted by neighbors and cops a couple dozen times breaking into foreclosed properties at the direction of the bank. Some situations got tense. Never once did I ever think of going after the people confronting me or talking shit back to someone. You deescalate the situation if you're there on legal grounds. If you're not, apparently you run and try to grab a guys gun.
Am I taking crazy pills or something? The w...
Nothing. Don't let assholes gaslight you.
86
marcus
2020 May 14, 2:49pm
marcus
2020 May 14, 2:49pm
RC2006 says
You have no idea whether he was running before visiting that house under construction or not. If you were ever a runner you would know it's not unusual to slow down for a walk in the middle of a run.
We know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal. That, and that he started running out of the neighborhood after that. Maybe he had been out for a walk (something a lot of people do these days when your cooped up the rest of the time), and then it changed to a run when he got dirty looks for, you know, being black in the wrong place.
That and the one other thing we know is that a couple of assholes chose to stop him armed to the hilt guns drawn. I don't think we know how that feels in that situation. Maybe he resisted becasue he's heard of people going to prison for less.
We just don't know all that much. My claim is more about what we don't know than what we do know. You guys are the ones coming up with the narrative that somehow justifies those guys stopping him with guns drawn.
There simply is no justification. Period !
Then somehow running from the scene not in his neighborhood, now he is a “jogger”.
You have no idea whether he was running before visiting that house under construction or not. If you were ever a runner you would know it's not unusual to slow down for a walk in the middle of a run.
We know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal. That, and that he started running out of the neighborhood after that. Maybe he had been out for a walk (something a lot of people do these days when your cooped up the rest of the time), and then it changed to a run when he got dirty looks for, you know, being black in the wrong place.
That and the one other thing we know is that a couple of assholes chose to stop him armed to the hilt guns drawn. I don't think we know how that feels in that situation. Maybe he resisted becasue he's heard of people going to prison for less.
We just don't know all that much. My claim is more about what we don't know than what we do know. You guys are the ones coming up with the narrative that somehow justifies those guys stopping him with guns drawn.
There simply is no justification. Period !
87
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 5:46pm
WookieMan
2020 May 14, 5:46pm
marcus says
It's illegal if uninvited. There's not even an argument to be had at this point. You and anyone disagreeing are 100% wrong. Flat out wrong. He committed a crime regardless of how minor anyone thinks it is, which I do. It was illegal.
We know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal
It's illegal if uninvited. There's not even an argument to be had at this point. You and anyone disagreeing are 100% wrong. Flat out wrong. He committed a crime regardless of how minor anyone thinks it is, which I do. It was illegal.
88
GNL
2020 May 14, 5:49pm
GNL
2020 May 14, 5:49pm
marcus says
Marcus,
Get the law changed if you don't like it. Maybe even run for office. Your tagline could be...
"Private property is for trespassing." or some other ridiculousness like that.
RC2006 saysThen somehow running from the scene not in his neighborhood, now he is a “jogger”.
You have no idea whether he was running before visiting that house under construction or not. If you were ever a runner you would know it's not unusual to slow down for a walk in the middle of a run.
We know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal. That, and that he started running out of the neighborhood after that. Maybe he had been out for a walk (something a lot of people do these days when your cooped up the rest of the time), and then it changed to a run when he got dirty looks for, you know, being black in the wrong place.
That and the one other thing we know is that a couple of assholes chose to stop him armed to the hilt guns drawn. I don't think we know how that feels in that situation. Maybe he resis...
Marcus,
Get the law changed if you don't like it. Maybe even run for office. Your tagline could be...
"Private property is for trespassing." or some other ridiculousness like that.
89
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 14, 6:02pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 14, 6:02pm
It's amazing how Black Males shrink in age when they fall victim to self-defense.
They showed Trayvon Martin's 8th Grade Pic, and they're trying to say a 26-year old with prior gun violations is also a "Kid".
They showed Trayvon Martin's 8th Grade Pic, and they're trying to say a 26-year old with prior gun violations is also a "Kid".
90
Onvacation
2020 May 14, 6:40pm
Onvacation
2020 May 14, 6:40pm
marcus says
Come on!
They had a shotgun and a revolver. Not even semi with extra clips. The minimal patnet standard of armed to the hilt is belt-fed with a thousand rounds.
armed to the hilt guns drawn.
Come on!
They had a shotgun and a revolver. Not even semi with extra clips. The minimal patnet standard of armed to the hilt is belt-fed with a thousand rounds.
92
mell
2020 May 14, 7:38pm
WookieMan says
I agree but there's always the principle of a response relative to the threat or crime. One may be able to argue a citizens arrest with arms drawn is not an appropriate response since there was no immediate threat and the extent of the crimes of any was also not established. However 99% would have come out alive of such a situation by not attacking/assaulting the person wanting to talk to you. So I'd call it tragic but mostly self inflicted. Certainly no grounds for any murder or hate crime charges, even lesser manslaughter is very likely too much. This is Trayvon Martin reloaded and the leftoid race baiters and their lamestream media accomplices will lose this fight once again.
marcus saysWe know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal
It's illegal if uninvited. There's not even an argument to be had at this point. You and anyone disagreeing are 100% wrong. Flat out wrong. He committed a crime regardless of how minor anyone thinks it is, which I do. It was illegal.
I agree but there's always the principle of a response relative to the threat or crime. One may be able to argue a citizens arrest with arms drawn is not an appropriate response since there was no immediate threat and the extent of the crimes of any was also not established. However 99% would have come out alive of such a situation by not attacking/assaulting the person wanting to talk to you. So I'd call it tragic but mostly self inflicted. Certainly no grounds for any murder or hate crime charges, even lesser manslaughter is very likely too much. This is Trayvon Martin reloaded and the leftoid race baiters and their lamestream media accomplices will lose this fight once again.
93
GNL
2020 May 14, 8:14pm
GNL
2020 May 14, 8:14pm
mell says
They likely want to lose so they can say, "see, systemic racism is alive".
WookieMan saysmarcus saysWe know very little, other than that he checked out a home under construction, which in some peoples books is not a big deal
It's illegal if uninvited. There's not even an argument to be had at this point. You and anyone disagreeing are 100% wrong. Flat out wrong. He committed a crime regardless of how minor anyone thinks it is, which I do. It was illegal.
I agree but there's always the principle of a response relative to the threat or crime. One may be able to argue a citizens arrest with arms drawn is not an appropriate response since there was no immediate threat and the extent of the crimes of any was also not established. However 99% would have come out alive of such a situation by not attacking/assaulting the person wanting to talk to you. So I'd call it tragic but mostly ...
They likely want to lose so they can say, "see, systemic racism is alive".
94
Patrick
2020 May 14, 9:21pm
Patrick
2020 May 14, 9:21pm
Almost all violent racism is assault and murder of white people by black people.
Almost never the other way around.
Almost never the other way around.
95
alpo
2020 May 14, 10:18pm
WookieMan says
Visibly entering a construction site doesn't mean anything. I am 40+ year old and I have interest in house construction, whenever there is construction going on in my neighborhood, I stop by and look around multiple times, I talk to construction workers, and sometimes go and in one particular property that was under construction for many months, I often used to stop by and look around at the quality of work. They even had cameras installed and not once was I stopped. My white neighbor has a habit of going around the neighborhood, opening peoples gates, taking their trash cans, and then returning them later. When you live in a community some curious eyes and curious behavior is expected. That doesn't mean you take out your gun and start chasing the first black guy you see that is acting curious.
Am I taking crazy pills or something? The weapon was legal. If Georgia allows citizen arrests, then the confrontation was legal. The person that was visibly seen entering a property was confronted and decided to go after the people thinking he was there illegally. What am I missing here?
Visibly entering a construction site doesn't mean anything. I am 40+ year old and I have interest in house construction, whenever there is construction going on in my neighborhood, I stop by and look around multiple times, I talk to construction workers, and sometimes go and in one particular property that was under construction for many months, I often used to stop by and look around at the quality of work. They even had cameras installed and not once was I stopped. My white neighbor has a habit of going around the neighborhood, opening peoples gates, taking their trash cans, and then returning them later. When you live in a community some curious eyes and curious behavior is expected. That doesn't mean you take out your gun and start chasing the first black guy you see that is acting curious.
96
PeopleUnited
2020 May 15, 3:50am
PeopleUnited
2020 May 15, 3:50am
alpo says
And if someone does, the correct response is to try to take their gun away right?
alpo says
So when you are snooping around a vacant construction site you might expect to gather some curiosity and maybe some of the curious people in the neighborhood might want to know what you are doing and stop to talk to you right? So the correct response is to run away and if that doesn’t work, attack the people who out of curiosity wanted to talk to you?
That doesn't mean you take out your gun and start chasing the first black guy you see that is acting curious.
And if someone does, the correct response is to try to take their gun away right?
alpo says
When you live in a community some curious eyes and curious behavior is expected.
So when you are snooping around a vacant construction site you might expect to gather some curiosity and maybe some of the curious people in the neighborhood might want to know what you are doing and stop to talk to you right? So the correct response is to run away and if that doesn’t work, attack the people who out of curiosity wanted to talk to you?
97
GNL
2020 May 15, 6:49am
GNL
2020 May 15, 6:49am
alpo says
You're not comparing apples to apples. If I see my NEIGHBOR doing something, and I know him/her, it's not NEARLY as CURIOUS as a stranger. You're being racist.
WookieMan saysAm I taking crazy pills or something? The weapon was legal. If Georgia allows citizen arrests, then the confrontation was legal. The person that was visibly seen entering a property was confronted and decided to go after the people thinking he was there illegally. What am I missing here?
Visibly entering a construction site doesn't mean anything. I am 40+ year old and I have interest in house construction, whenever there is construction going on in my neighborhood, I stop by and look around multiple times, I talk to construction workers, and sometimes go and in one particular property that was under construction for many months, I often used to stop by and look around at the quality of work. They even had cameras installed and not once was I stopped. My white neighbor has a habit of going around the neighborhood, opening peoples gates, taking their trash cans, and then returni...
You're not comparing apples to apples. If I see my NEIGHBOR doing something, and I know him/her, it's not NEARLY as CURIOUS as a stranger. You're being racist.
98
GNL
2020 May 15, 6:51am
GNL
2020 May 15, 6:51am
Knowing many of the facts, calling these white dudes racist is racist. Why are you a racist? Why do you hate white people for protecting their neighbors?
We are not going to accept your racist comments anymore. Lines are being drawn. If I was on the jury, at this point, I would vote NOT GUILTY.
We are not going to accept your racist comments anymore. Lines are being drawn. If I was on the jury, at this point, I would vote NOT GUILTY.
99
WookieMan
2020 May 15, 6:58am
WookieMan
2020 May 15, 6:58am
alpo says
If there are workers there I've already mentioned no biggie. They can tell you to leave or let you walk around. I can promise you, not one intelligent builder would want someone walking around their site unaccompanied. Hence why they put cameras and alarms on site. If they make a decision if they get an alert via camera and choose to not do anything, that's their choice. You have a choice to enter another persons property, but that doesn't take away that it's still illegal to do so.
There's always a potential negative out come when you commit an illegal act. The two guys went over the top for sure. I haven't downplayed that. The chain reaction that commenced after Ahmaud committed an illegal act is all on him though. From entering the property and then rush dudes with guns? Was is necessary for them to draw guns, no. But that really doesn't matter as it was all legal in the state of Georgia. The only illegal act was performed by Ahmaud in this circumstance.
I am 40+ year old and I have interest in house construction, whenever there is construction going on in my neighborhood, I stop by and look around multiple times, I talk to construction workers, and sometimes go and in one particular property that was under construction for many months, I often used to stop by and look around at the quality of work.
If there are workers there I've already mentioned no biggie. They can tell you to leave or let you walk around. I can promise you, not one intelligent builder would want someone walking around their site unaccompanied. Hence why they put cameras and alarms on site. If they make a decision if they get an alert via camera and choose to not do anything, that's their choice. You have a choice to enter another persons property, but that doesn't take away that it's still illegal to do so.
There's always a potential negative out come when you commit an illegal act. The two guys went over the top for sure. I haven't downplayed that. The chain reaction that commenced after Ahmaud committed an illegal act is all on him though. From entering the property and then rush dudes with guns? Was is necessary for them to draw guns, no. But that really doesn't matter as it was all legal in the state of Georgia. The only illegal act was performed by Ahmaud in this circumstance.
100
elliemae
2020 May 15, 7:51am
elliemae
2020 May 15, 7:51am
1. The guy stopped and walked through a house under construction. The owner of the home has no problem with his presence.
2. The "men" who followed him, then confronted him, shot and killed him.
Seems like many of you live in the Bay Area, where houses are crammed together and construction sites are pillaged. I'm from the rural west, where a house under construction can be walked through with no problem. It's only an illegal act if the "injured party" claims it to be one. HE DID NOT.
My son has had a couple of run-ins with the law - starting with a pocket-rocket that broke a window when he and his friends were nine. He's a white man, employed, with a college degree. He jogs. If he were to stop and look at a house, it's doubtful the situation would end in his murder by two non-related people who have no claim to the property and are acting on their own hysteria. Most certainly, they wouldn't bring up the pocket-rocket incident, and probably not the ticket for smoking dope.
They didn't own the property. They didn't have a claim to it. There was no active threat. They weren't protecting themselves, they weren't protecting their own property. If they felt that there was a problem with a man walking onto a construction site, they could have called 911. By taking their version of the law into their own hands, IMHO they deserve life in prison at the very least.
--------------------------------------
WookieMan says
Call the cops, I did it last Sunday.
WookieMan says
Ya might want to brush up on your trespass laws. I'll wait.
WookieMan says
Agreed. and yet, you're spouting what you believe to be salient facts.
WineHorror1 says
You don't know "many of the facts." You know the teeny bit that has been released.
GEORGIA LAW:
"(a) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person.
(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;
(2) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or
(3) Remains upon the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant to depart."
Your buddies were not acting on the behalf of the owner. They weren't authorized representatives. And they didn't confront him on the property, he was committing no crime before or during the altercation that caused his death.
2. The "men" who followed him, then confronted him, shot and killed him.
Seems like many of you live in the Bay Area, where houses are crammed together and construction sites are pillaged. I'm from the rural west, where a house under construction can be walked through with no problem. It's only an illegal act if the "injured party" claims it to be one. HE DID NOT.
My son has had a couple of run-ins with the law - starting with a pocket-rocket that broke a window when he and his friends were nine. He's a white man, employed, with a college degree. He jogs. If he were to stop and look at a house, it's doubtful the situation would end in his murder by two non-related people who have no claim to the property and are acting on their own hysteria. Most certainly, they wouldn't bring up the pocket-rocket incident, and probably not the ticket for smoking dope.
They didn't own the property. They didn't have a claim to it. There was no active threat. They weren't protecting themselves, they weren't protecting their own property. If they felt that there was a problem with a man walking onto a construction site, they could have called 911. By taking their version of the law into their own hands, IMHO they deserve life in prison at the very least.
--------------------------------------
WookieMan says
I've never heard of an adult doing it with no contractors on site. It's trespassing at minimum and most definitely suspicious. White, black, brown, yellow, etc. The only time it's appropriate to even enter someone's yard is to grab a real estate flyer or to knock on the door to present yourself and ask a question if you don't know the owner. Otherwise, just stay on the public easement/sidewalk or the street. Zero reason to enter a random persons property EVER regardless of occupancy. You're only asking for negative outcomes, regardless of who you are.
Call the cops, I did it last Sunday.
WookieMan says
Trespassing is trespassing though. If the owner didn't explicitly invite Ahmaud, then it's trespassing regardless of whether or not the owner wants/would press charges.
Ya might want to brush up on your trespass laws. I'll wait.
WookieMan says
There's really not much else to discuss.
Agreed. and yet, you're spouting what you believe to be salient facts.
WineHorror1 says
Knowing many of the facts, calling these white dudes racist is racist
You don't know "many of the facts." You know the teeny bit that has been released.
GEORGIA LAW:
"(a) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person.
(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;
(2) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or
(3) Remains upon the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant to depart."
Your buddies were not acting on the behalf of the owner. They weren't authorized representatives. And they didn't confront him on the property, he was committing no crime before or during the altercation that caused his death.
101
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 15, 8:00am
Tenpoundbass
2020 May 15, 8:00am
WineHorror1 says
Yes there was nothing racist about the botched citizens arrest, and it is most certain. The Liberal scumbags there are going to taint this cut and dry case, with their race baiting bullshit. The duo will be tried on being racists, and the evidence will show they weren't racist. Just liable and reckless with their pursuit to citizen arrest him.
They'll beat the racist rap in court and never be tried for their negligence.
Democrats are always stapling their Dicks to their foreheads, what else is new.
Knowing many of the facts, calling these white dudes racist is racist. Why are you a racist? Why do you hate white people for protecting their neighbors?
We are not going to accept your racist comments anymore. Lines are being drawn. If I was on the jury, at this point, I would vote NOT GUILTY.
Yes there was nothing racist about the botched citizens arrest, and it is most certain. The Liberal scumbags there are going to taint this cut and dry case, with their race baiting bullshit. The duo will be tried on being racists, and the evidence will show they weren't racist. Just liable and reckless with their pursuit to citizen arrest him.
They'll beat the racist rap in court and never be tried for their negligence.
Democrats are always stapling their Dicks to their foreheads, what else is new.
102
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 15, 8:22am
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 May 15, 8:22am
The only one who botched the legal citizen's arrest is Arbery.
He was to stay there until the police arrived.
Instead of standing or running away, he actively engaged the citizens by charging them while they were holding firearms.
He was to stay there until the police arrived.
Instead of standing or running away, he actively engaged the citizens by charging them while they were holding firearms.
103
marcus
2020 May 15, 8:22am
marcus
2020 May 15, 8:22am
Tenpoundbass says
No they will be tried for murder. And just like in this thread, Trump cultists will be defending that those idiots had good reason to make a citizens arrest with guns drawn.
The fact that Trump cultists are arguing in that direction, and that the guy was black is strictly a coincidence.
The duo will be tried on being racists, and the evidence will show they weren't racist.
No they will be tried for murder. And just like in this thread, Trump cultists will be defending that those idiots had good reason to make a citizens arrest with guns drawn.
The fact that Trump cultists are arguing in that direction, and that the guy was black is strictly a coincidence.
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There's not a stand your ground law in the US that will back you, if things get out of hand at that point. In almost every scenario, you'll be the aggressor.
Why did Ahmaud Arbery, grab their gun, the video would have cleared him and he could have sued them later.
It's been rumored he was in boots, and was carrying a hammer, though it's clear he wasn't doing either. The video, shows Ahmaud enter the under construction property. But IMHO, it doesn't look like he's casing the place. Now they don't show the whole video, he could have looked innocent until the video stops. Then he could have been snooping and prowling looking for tools, and scoping out any copper wire. Speculation of course, but why release the video and not show the entire three minutes. What was he doing when he noticed the neighbor across the street calling 9-11 before he bolted out the door?
If he was doing nothing more than what it looked like, it could be argued he was stopping by looking for work. That's how I used to get construction work way way on back in the day. Just show up on the job, and ask if they need help.
It's not looking good for the Good Ole Boys, what's in the rest of the video, and why is Ahmaud so brazen to try to take the gun, rather than the prospect of waiting for the police?
Especially given the lack of will to prosecute these days by Liberal judges, Mayors and DA's.
www.youtube.com/embed/rg8CaecNJI8