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New theme for this site: "Civil Debate"
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2020 Jun 2, 10:00am 3,591 views 169 comments
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38
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:30pm
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:30pm
Playing around with algorithms, affecting that list, might be a little fun for you too.
39
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 1:31pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 1:31pm
ad says
I'm pretty sure it happens all the time that people are civil yet be perceived as offensive by someone with an ax to grind.
Do men and women think differently? Yes, I'm sure they do, but that idea was so "offensive" to Google that idea got James Damore fired, even though he was nice enough in saying it.
And you're right, these are the very ideas that will instantly be labelled racist or pro-fascist. The MSM labels all opposition to illegal immigration as "racist" every day, no matter how carefully reasoned or politely expressed.
How can you simultaneously have civility with freedom to offend ? I thought both would be incompatible or mutually exclusive.
Some view the freedom to offend as being uncivil if not racist or "pro-Fascist". It just seems like you will have an arbitrary label as what is civil and uncivil.
I'm pretty sure it happens all the time that people are civil yet be perceived as offensive by someone with an ax to grind.
Do men and women think differently? Yes, I'm sure they do, but that idea was so "offensive" to Google that idea got James Damore fired, even though he was nice enough in saying it.
And you're right, these are the very ideas that will instantly be labelled racist or pro-fascist. The MSM labels all opposition to illegal immigration as "racist" every day, no matter how carefully reasoned or politely expressed.
40
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:33pm
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:33pm
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richwicks says
You don't understand how Trump is making the neoMarxists and globalists heads metaphorically explode when he goes after the ChiComs on trade, etc.
Just like their heads explode when Trump seals the border and reverses the Obama immigration policies.
You don't understand how much they want to get back to Obama 2.0 with a continuing "fundamental transformation of America". They want open borders, free passes to their ideological allies the ChiComs, gun confiscation, welfare state, a weakened Pentagon that is just a social experiment, etc
Trump is in their way, and his supporters are the American Left's target.
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richwicks says
Everybody is on board for promoting a war - even "liberal" NY Times..
You don't understand how Trump is making the neoMarxists and globalists heads metaphorically explode when he goes after the ChiComs on trade, etc.
Just like their heads explode when Trump seals the border and reverses the Obama immigration policies.
You don't understand how much they want to get back to Obama 2.0 with a continuing "fundamental transformation of America". They want open borders, free passes to their ideological allies the ChiComs, gun confiscation, welfare state, a weakened Pentagon that is just a social experiment, etc
Trump is in their way, and his supporters are the American Left's target.
.
41
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:36pm
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:36pm
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Patrick says
Patrick, look what the Left and its mainstream media did to the Google engineer Damore.
They dragged him through the mud, and then publicly tarred and feathered him. He pointed out that many professions like human resources, nursing, public school teachers, etc. are dominated by females.
So how can you justify having 50% females as engineers when more than 80% of those professions are females ? How is that sexist ?
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Patrick says
And you're right, these are the very ideas that will instantly be labelled racist or pro-fascist. The MSM labels all opposition to illegal immigration as "racist" every day, no matter how carefully reasoned or politely expressed.
Patrick, look what the Left and its mainstream media did to the Google engineer Damore.
They dragged him through the mud, and then publicly tarred and feathered him. He pointed out that many professions like human resources, nursing, public school teachers, etc. are dominated by females.
So how can you justify having 50% females as engineers when more than 80% of those professions are females ? How is that sexist ?
.
42
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:37pm
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:37pm
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jazz_music says
No, you know it is about a war against the Republicans and Trump supporters. That is why the NY Times refuses to criticize or call out AntiFa.
Stop pretending otherwise and being disingenuous.
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jazz_music says
This level of America seems to all be tied into war profiteering at some level.
So pro-war is not so surprising.
No, you know it is about a war against the Republicans and Trump supporters. That is why the NY Times refuses to criticize or call out AntiFa.
Stop pretending otherwise and being disingenuous.
.
43
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:37pm
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:37pm
Patrick says
IF reflects VERY VERY VERY strong belief among a huge segment of the country that this guy is by far the all time worst President. You can't relate, but is it even remotely possible that it really is a cult, and you're "all in." At least it must have something to do with the fact that you like him. You defend him. That is your dislike of the phrase. It's not that far out. He's a gifted con artist. There are some good articles on this forum presenting legitimate analyses of why it really is a cult.
You can blame liberals for the divisiveness, but A LOT of very smart people see it plain as day Very much trumps fault. The increasing polarization that is .
I agree with you about civil debate, and the benefits of fighting for things we agree on. Donald Trump WILL NOT be a person that brings us together. How can anyone not see that ? He was never intended to.
By the way, plenty of people that voted for Trump aren't in the cult.
Lacks good will
IF reflects VERY VERY VERY strong belief among a huge segment of the country that this guy is by far the all time worst President. You can't relate, but is it even remotely possible that it really is a cult, and you're "all in." At least it must have something to do with the fact that you like him. You defend him. That is your dislike of the phrase. It's not that far out. He's a gifted con artist. There are some good articles on this forum presenting legitimate analyses of why it really is a cult.
You can blame liberals for the divisiveness, but A LOT of very smart people see it plain as day Very much trumps fault. The increasing polarization that is .
I agree with you about civil debate, and the benefits of fighting for things we agree on. Donald Trump WILL NOT be a person that brings us together. How can anyone not see that ? He was never intended to.
By the way, plenty of people that voted for Trump aren't in the cult.
44
RWSGFY
2020 Jun 2, 1:39pm
RWSGFY
2020 Jun 2, 1:39pm
jazz_music says
I'll play: what kind of "activism" you propose we do together, united?
Oligarchy keeps winning by keeping us from activism, divided.
I'll play: what kind of "activism" you propose we do together, united?
45
Bd6r
2020 Jun 2, 1:42pm
Bd6r
2020 Jun 2, 1:42pm
Patrick says
I don't think those are equivalent. For few people, Trump is a God-like personality who can do no wrong with his 6905325 dimensional chess (so there is a small number of individuals where Trump cult is an accurate expression), while libtard is just a term meant to offend 100% of time.
My attraction to patnet is that it is a relatively low tech site without bells and whistles, that there is little if any censorship, and that it is small with respect to number of users so I have an approximate idea whom I am talking to. If we start color coding everything, hiding posts under warnings, or deleting posts because of nebulous "good will", then site will change for worse, I think.
marcus saysTrump Cult
That's the kind of phrase I'm hoping to remove from the site. Lacks good will, stops all debate dead in its tracks. "Libtard" is about the same from the other side.
I don't think those are equivalent. For few people, Trump is a God-like personality who can do no wrong with his 6905325 dimensional chess (so there is a small number of individuals where Trump cult is an accurate expression), while libtard is just a term meant to offend 100% of time.
My attraction to patnet is that it is a relatively low tech site without bells and whistles, that there is little if any censorship, and that it is small with respect to number of users so I have an approximate idea whom I am talking to. If we start color coding everything, hiding posts under warnings, or deleting posts because of nebulous "good will", then site will change for worse, I think.
46
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 1:44pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 1:44pm
Fortwaynemobile says
There's a big difference between an argument and a discussion.
I think what @Patrick is aiming for is a discussion.
There are times when I explain, in detail, my position and my reasoning to get to my position expecting to get a response of "well, here's where your logic is failed what information you don't know and here's where your reasoning doesn't add up" because I went through all the effort to lay out how I formed my conclusion.
Instead I'll get a response along the lines of "you're dum" or "what a lot of nonsense!"
That doesn't give me ANY ability to figure out where I'm wrong, or give me the possibility to rethink my position. It's simply PUSHING me into a position by ridiculing me. I can accept when I'm wrong and when I don't have full information and when my reasoning is faulty - but I'm not just going to take somebody else's word for it that "I'm wrong".
Some people (too many people) seem to enjoy this type of combative argument but I hate it. I always walk away thinking more than ever I'm correct, and I ran into somebody who couldn't get over their cognitive dissonance and admit they were in error, so they insulted me instead - but I don't know!
Well, back to work.
Freedom is not always civil. Don’t know if it’ll work.
There's a big difference between an argument and a discussion.
I think what @Patrick is aiming for is a discussion.
There are times when I explain, in detail, my position and my reasoning to get to my position expecting to get a response of "well, here's where your logic is failed what information you don't know and here's where your reasoning doesn't add up" because I went through all the effort to lay out how I formed my conclusion.
Instead I'll get a response along the lines of "you're dum" or "what a lot of nonsense!"
That doesn't give me ANY ability to figure out where I'm wrong, or give me the possibility to rethink my position. It's simply PUSHING me into a position by ridiculing me. I can accept when I'm wrong and when I don't have full information and when my reasoning is faulty - but I'm not just going to take somebody else's word for it that "I'm wrong".
Some people (too many people) seem to enjoy this type of combative argument but I hate it. I always walk away thinking more than ever I'm correct, and I ran into somebody who couldn't get over their cognitive dissonance and admit they were in error, so they insulted me instead - but I don't know!
Well, back to work.
47
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 1:46pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 1:46pm
Y'all know I'm a huge fan of Slapback, because the problem when about half of people are for civil discourse and the other half is win by any means, it doesn't end well for the civil discourse folks.
Remember one of Alinsky's rules: Force the Enemy to live up to his own standards. So one side has to fight with one hand behind their back and not punch below the belt while the other is free to do whatever they please, eventually the constant kick in the nuts against one-handed fighter will bring his ass down unless he lands some lucky repeat hooks to the face.
I think no outright personal insults is fine.
That said, I prefer civil discourse, because while I'll like the occasional Zing like anybody else, it quickly degenerates into an insult slug like the old Captain vs. Dan threats about meetups at the Ft Lauderdale Gay Bar.
Remember one of Alinsky's rules: Force the Enemy to live up to his own standards. So one side has to fight with one hand behind their back and not punch below the belt while the other is free to do whatever they please, eventually the constant kick in the nuts against one-handed fighter will bring his ass down unless he lands some lucky repeat hooks to the face.
I think no outright personal insults is fine.
That said, I prefer civil discourse, because while I'll like the occasional Zing like anybody else, it quickly degenerates into an insult slug like the old Captain vs. Dan threats about meetups at the Ft Lauderdale Gay Bar.
48
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 1:51pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 1:51pm
Oh boy, do I have a suggestion for you @Patrick
Allow downvotes in two modes:
1) just the way they are
2) the downvotes only count if there's a response from the person who downvoted it.
Also controlled by an option button.
Upvotes are easy - I read something I agree with, yeah, not much to say.
But a downvote - if I disagree with it, I won't very often downvote it unless I explain WHY I disagree with it. If somebody got 30 downvotes but all the responses were trivial arguments like "you don't know what you're talking about" - you can see that the people downvoting it really isn't putting any effort into thinking about what was said.
I'll sometimes downvote a post I just consider "stupid", like somebody calling people Redumblicans or Demonrats. It's my way of telling them I wish they'd go away.
This is also not patented - but perhaps could be.
Allow downvotes in two modes:
1) just the way they are
2) the downvotes only count if there's a response from the person who downvoted it.
Also controlled by an option button.
Upvotes are easy - I read something I agree with, yeah, not much to say.
But a downvote - if I disagree with it, I won't very often downvote it unless I explain WHY I disagree with it. If somebody got 30 downvotes but all the responses were trivial arguments like "you don't know what you're talking about" - you can see that the people downvoting it really isn't putting any effort into thinking about what was said.
I'll sometimes downvote a post I just consider "stupid", like somebody calling people Redumblicans or Demonrats. It's my way of telling them I wish they'd go away.
This is also not patented - but perhaps could be.
49
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:55pm
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 1:55pm
rd6B says
Agreed
rd6B says
I know what you mean about it being small. But wouldn't it be fun to see it grow ? Maybe Patrick finally cashes in a little ?
The color coding was just for some page with a list of articles. And the reason was to counter the affect of up and down voting if the political unbalance of the site made the list too right wing. Because liberal perspectives get down voted so far that the whole point of providing popular points of view is lost. ) That goes against the idea of growing the site and also the idea of even having it be a site for for good civil discourse. More balance would improve the site.
I don't think those are equivalent
Agreed
rd6B says
If we start color coding everything, hiding posts under warnings
I know what you mean about it being small. But wouldn't it be fun to see it grow ? Maybe Patrick finally cashes in a little ?
The color coding was just for some page with a list of articles. And the reason was to counter the affect of up and down voting if the political unbalance of the site made the list too right wing. Because liberal perspectives get down voted so far that the whole point of providing popular points of view is lost. ) That goes against the idea of growing the site and also the idea of even having it be a site for for good civil discourse. More balance would improve the site.
50
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:59pm
AD
2020 Jun 2, 1:59pm
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jazz_music says
What do you mean by activism ?
Did you not witness NY Times, Washington Post, MSNBC, etc. all gush over Obama from 2008 to 2016 ?
Don't tell me he did not achieve the goals of activism. Look at his coal policies for example, as well as support for renewable energy.
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jazz_music says
Oligarchy keeps winning by keeping us from activism, divided.
What do you mean by activism ?
Did you not witness NY Times, Washington Post, MSNBC, etc. all gush over Obama from 2008 to 2016 ?
Don't tell me he did not achieve the goals of activism. Look at his coal policies for example, as well as support for renewable energy.
.
51
AD
2020 Jun 2, 2:01pm
AD
2020 Jun 2, 2:01pm
richwicks says
I'll automatically downvote the reply someone makes to justify their downvote of my original post.
Allow downvotes in two modes:
I'll automatically downvote the reply someone makes to justify their downvote of my original post.
52
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 2:14pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 2:14pm
The Left is trying to undermine everything about America. They spread lies like "I can see Russia from my House" "White Supremacists are Fine People" and the Media repeats them, suddenly "forgetting" to Fact Check.
Let me know when Polifact/WaPo fact checks Biden saying You can't be Black if you don't vote for me.
Let me know when Polifact/WaPo fact checks Biden saying You can't be Black if you don't vote for me.
53
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:17pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:17pm
HEYYOU says
Technically, yes. The word "freedom" is no longer there. It was abused.
You're still totally free to civilly advocate any idea you want. Just don't for example openly wish for the deaths of all Republicans. That's not civil. It's hostile and doesn't help anyone debate anything. It divides us.
So Freedom has been removed from the theme.
Technically, yes. The word "freedom" is no longer there. It was abused.
You're still totally free to civilly advocate any idea you want. Just don't for example openly wish for the deaths of all Republicans. That's not civil. It's hostile and doesn't help anyone debate anything. It divides us.
54
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:19pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:19pm
rd6B says
Well, let's see what happens.
It's something I just have to try. The riots convinced me that we are getting nowhere with the partisan tribalism fomented by the media.
hiding posts under warnings, or deleting posts because of nebulous "good will", then site will change for worse, I think.
Well, let's see what happens.
It's something I just have to try. The riots convinced me that we are getting nowhere with the partisan tribalism fomented by the media.
55
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:23pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:23pm
NoCoupForYou says
I'm not sure. Being civil lends some weight to any argument.
Hostility betrays insecurity, and undermines an argument.
the problem when about half of people are for civil discourse and the other half is win by any means, it doesn't end well for the civil discourse folks.
I'm not sure. Being civil lends some weight to any argument.
Hostility betrays insecurity, and undermines an argument.
56
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:27pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:27pm
jazz_music says
Maybe online petitions which spread virally as you ask your friends to sign. And then the exact names of our Congressmen who vote for or against them, resulting in voter guides on fundamental issues.
If the petitions are very simply worded and clearly in the public interest, then Congressmen who vote against them could have some serious headwind against getting re-elected.
But sure, there are many possibilities.
covid_shmovid sayswhat kind of "activism" you propose we do together, united?Whatever it takes.
Maybe online petitions which spread virally as you ask your friends to sign. And then the exact names of our Congressmen who vote for or against them, resulting in voter guides on fundamental issues.
If the petitions are very simply worded and clearly in the public interest, then Congressmen who vote against them could have some serious headwind against getting re-elected.
But sure, there are many possibilities.
57
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:29pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:29pm
richwicks says
Yes, with civility rules this could be good. Maybe "dislike" should require a comment to explain why. So you click dislike, and it puts a quote of that comment in the comment box starting with: "Patrick disliked: ..."
2) the downvotes only count if there's a response from the person who downvoted it.
Yes, with civility rules this could be good. Maybe "dislike" should require a comment to explain why. So you click dislike, and it puts a quote of that comment in the comment box starting with: "Patrick disliked: ..."
58
WookieMan
2020 Jun 2, 2:30pm
WookieMan
2020 Jun 2, 2:30pm
jazz_music says
Serious question. Where has this happened? Think about it.
You get to beef up enforcement and eliminate laws that bar defacto acts of martial law and unconstitutional use of the American military power against Americans.
Serious question. Where has this happened? Think about it.
59
mell
2020 Jun 2, 2:31pm
WookieMan says
Mostly only in leftoid states and counties. Regressive Left = modern brownshirts
jazz_music saysYou get to beef up enforcement and eliminate laws that bar defacto acts of martial law and unconstitutional use of the American military power against Americans.
Serious question. Where has this happened? Think about it.
Mostly only in leftoid states and counties. Regressive Left = modern brownshirts
60
Tenpoundbass
2020 Jun 2, 2:33pm
Tenpoundbass
2020 Jun 2, 2:33pm
Why don't you weigh people's comments?
Starting from the post, if it's vitriolic then it gets a low weighing score.
Based on words you want to limit now. If a thread with a negative score, only and idiot would argue in such a thread.
Then you could have a Scale in each users profile they can adjust the lowest score they want to see in their feed.
Starting from the post, if it's vitriolic then it gets a low weighing score.
Based on words you want to limit now. If a thread with a negative score, only and idiot would argue in such a thread.
Then you could have a Scale in each users profile they can adjust the lowest score they want to see in their feed.
61
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:33pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:33pm
marcus says
Maybe with a toggle so you don't have your opinion of a link literally "colored" before you read it.
First, I think I can automatically create that list of links without too much effort. Then I'll work on colorization and other things. It's kinda hard being employed full time and adding features here. I have to concentrate all day on technical problems for work, and then at 5pm, all I really want is a glass of wine, which is not conducive to getting any personal projects done.
The color coding was just for some page with a list of articles.
Maybe with a toggle so you don't have your opinion of a link literally "colored" before you read it.
First, I think I can automatically create that list of links without too much effort. Then I'll work on colorization and other things. It's kinda hard being employed full time and adding features here. I have to concentrate all day on technical problems for work, and then at 5pm, all I really want is a glass of wine, which is not conducive to getting any personal projects done.
62
WookieMan
2020 Jun 2, 2:36pm
WookieMan
2020 Jun 2, 2:36pm
jazz_music says
Then strike it down? Not sure your point. Trump is not a dictator and you might want to start giving shit to your legislators. They pass the bills that the POTUS signs. Crocodile tears should start there.
Emergency powers act needs to be struck down because it provides a framework for those things I mentioned and even worse.
Then strike it down? Not sure your point. Trump is not a dictator and you might want to start giving shit to your legislators. They pass the bills that the POTUS signs. Crocodile tears should start there.
63
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:36pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:36pm
HEYYOU says
We're not communicating very well.
I'm trying to avoid exactly that kind of partisan division.
We should be unified against our common enemy, The People's Front of Judea!
(Life of Brian, lots of good points about politics and division.)
Is that possible with RepCons?
We're not communicating very well.
I'm trying to avoid exactly that kind of partisan division.
We should be unified against our common enemy, The People's Front of Judea!
(Life of Brian, lots of good points about politics and division.)
64
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 2:39pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 2:39pm
ad says
Never forget, we've been fooled before.
Talk is cheap. Remember Hope and Change, after the last asshole lied us into a war over a non existent weapons of mass destruction program? Most people interpreted Hope and Change to hold Bush accountable, end these stupid wars, and start dealing with the problems in the United States.
What did we get?
Well, it became illegal not to carry health insurance whether you could pay for it or not, we had a national discussion on transgendered bathrooms, and we began to bomb Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.
And we got a national discussion on transgendered bathrooms!
Remember, what you are TOLD has been accomplished is just what you've been told. Have you personally seen a reduction in illegal immigration? Are we really ending our trade partnership with China? Is the 2nd amendment really secure?
Everybody got nice big checks - sure we didn't just get Universal Basic Income?
Don't get me wrong, I have HOPE - but I have no faith. I hope you're right but better have plan B, C, D, E, F.
Trump is in their way, and his supporters are the American Left's target.
Never forget, we've been fooled before.
Talk is cheap. Remember Hope and Change, after the last asshole lied us into a war over a non existent weapons of mass destruction program? Most people interpreted Hope and Change to hold Bush accountable, end these stupid wars, and start dealing with the problems in the United States.
What did we get?
Well, it became illegal not to carry health insurance whether you could pay for it or not, we had a national discussion on transgendered bathrooms, and we began to bomb Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.
And we got a national discussion on transgendered bathrooms!
Remember, what you are TOLD has been accomplished is just what you've been told. Have you personally seen a reduction in illegal immigration? Are we really ending our trade partnership with China? Is the 2nd amendment really secure?
Everybody got nice big checks - sure we didn't just get Universal Basic Income?
Don't get me wrong, I have HOPE - but I have no faith. I hope you're right but better have plan B, C, D, E, F.
65
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 2:40pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 2:40pm
Patrick says
www.youtube.com/embed/NUHk2RSMCS8
We should be unified against our common enemy, The People's Front of Judea!
www.youtube.com/embed/NUHk2RSMCS8
66
mell
2020 Jun 2, 2:43pm
Patrick says
The problem is that the people out protesting and exhibiting TDS are in reality protesting that life isn't fair. Everything that happens to them, be it because they're ugly or unsuccessful is somebody else's fault. You will hardly ever find good looking or successful people protesting nonsense except for some womyn who are attention whores and get even more attention when protesting that just for their good looks or success. 90% of social media is attention whoring and fake claims of leading a better and more meaningful life than others, and if you get pwned it's somebody else's fault. They externalize everything and are hollow and angry inside. Despite all the robber barons and fatcats people had never had it better wrt standard of living than ever since the dawn of mankind. I try not to but somewhat despise these virtue sniveling protesters. The cops will be brought to justice but at the end of the day it was a totally insignificant event. Despite the world being safer than ever for everyone there are risks every day from viruses to bad cops to cars that are so insignificant risks for everyone that the vast majority dies of heart attack or cancer after living a life with all the (too much) food they ever needed, shelter and a safety net better than ever. These protests are utter bullshit and so is TDS. I don't care if there's incivility I just ignore useless debates and bait. Not worth the time
rd6B sayshiding posts under warnings, or deleting posts because of nebulous "good will", then site will change for worse, I think.
Well, let's see what happens.
It's something I just have to try. The riots convinced me that we are getting nowhere with the partisan tribalism fomented by the media.
The problem is that the people out protesting and exhibiting TDS are in reality protesting that life isn't fair. Everything that happens to them, be it because they're ugly or unsuccessful is somebody else's fault. You will hardly ever find good looking or successful people protesting nonsense except for some womyn who are attention whores and get even more attention when protesting that just for their good looks or success. 90% of social media is attention whoring and fake claims of leading a better and more meaningful life than others, and if you get pwned it's somebody else's fault. They externalize everything and are hollow and angry inside. Despite all the robber barons and fatcats people had never had it better wrt standard of living than ever since the dawn of mankind. I try not to but somewhat despise these virtue sniveling protesters. The cops will be brought to justice but at the end of the day it was a totally insignificant event. Despite the world being safer than ever for everyone there are risks every day from viruses to bad cops to cars that are so insignificant risks for everyone that the vast majority dies of heart attack or cancer after living a life with all the (too much) food they ever needed, shelter and a safety net better than ever. These protests are utter bullshit and so is TDS. I don't care if there's incivility I just ignore useless debates and bait. Not worth the time
67
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:44pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:44pm
HEYYOU says
That's right.
Maybe you can come up with something unifying instead of divisive.
Can I no longer say Fuck Scum RepCons in this new site of no Freedom.
That's right.
Maybe you can come up with something unifying instead of divisive.
There are many ideas that we will never agree on. The left and the right have different ways of approaching governance, based on contrasting philosophies. But many of the ultimate goals — economic prosperity, better health care and education, etc. — are the same. We just don’t share the same vision of how to achieve them.- Dan Crenshaw
68
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:45pm
Patrick
2020 Jun 2, 2:45pm
Maybe the main thing should be unifying vs divisive. That may be even more important than civility.
69
mell
2020 Jun 2, 2:55pm
Agreed but we need to also establish ideas to discuss that are worth everyone's time and input. For example discussing mandatory body cameras on cops and protocols for other officers witnessing malpractice without even mentioning race as it is neither part of the problem nor the solution would be a thread that could be discussed rationally and without unscientific distractions.
70
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 3:00pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 2, 3:00pm
Patrick says
Sorry Pat, that can't happen until at a minimum, we get control back of education from Intersectionals.
K-12 literally teaches that unity is Evil Whiteness and that every non-White group must be encouraged not to assimiliate, but all Whites must endorse (but not culturally appropriate or ignore)
Maybe the main thing should be unifying vs divisive. That may be even more important than civility.
Sorry Pat, that can't happen until at a minimum, we get control back of education from Intersectionals.
K-12 literally teaches that unity is Evil Whiteness and that every non-White group must be encouraged not to assimiliate, but all Whites must endorse (but not culturally appropriate or ignore)
71
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:07pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:07pm
ad says
That's silly - what if they are correct and you were wrong?
If they are incorrect, you have to explain it, in order to do a downvote - in that mode. Maybe have 2 downvote counts.
If a post has 100 downvotes but no responses to it explaining why they are wrong, that tells me somebody is right over target. It doesn't convince me they are wrong. This is true of many people, and why downvotes were eliminated on many sites - like youtube (t least for comments). Now I can't tell where the average population is just outright wrong about something on youtube in a comment.
A thousand downvotes and one upvote and no explanation of why what was said is wrong, tells me it was right over the mark, and it just blew 1000 minds and they are upset and angry. It tells me one person had the courage to agree despite it being very unpopular.
That's why both counts should be kept.
richwicks saysAllow downvotes in two modes:
I'll automatically downvote the reply someone makes to justify their downvote of my original post.
That's silly - what if they are correct and you were wrong?
If they are incorrect, you have to explain it, in order to do a downvote - in that mode. Maybe have 2 downvote counts.
If a post has 100 downvotes but no responses to it explaining why they are wrong, that tells me somebody is right over target. It doesn't convince me they are wrong. This is true of many people, and why downvotes were eliminated on many sites - like youtube (t least for comments). Now I can't tell where the average population is just outright wrong about something on youtube in a comment.
A thousand downvotes and one upvote and no explanation of why what was said is wrong, tells me it was right over the mark, and it just blew 1000 minds and they are upset and angry. It tells me one person had the courage to agree despite it being very unpopular.
That's why both counts should be kept.
72
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 3:07pm
marcus
2020 Jun 2, 3:07pm
marcus says
Another option might be letting people post links directly to that list, where it could be voted up or down. The interesting thing is that ones that both sides agree on would go to the top of the list, becasue neither side is downvoting it much. Achieving one of your goals - impacting politics and the world with ideas we can agree on.
Hence anonymously posting to the list is good so that it doesn't get downvoted just becasue of the source. Who knows, maybe some reads I give more of a chance if I don't know who the asshole is that posted it (just kidding).
More balance would improve the site.
Another option might be letting people post links directly to that list, where it could be voted up or down. The interesting thing is that ones that both sides agree on would go to the top of the list, becasue neither side is downvoting it much. Achieving one of your goals - impacting politics and the world with ideas we can agree on.
Hence anonymously posting to the list is good so that it doesn't get downvoted just becasue of the source. Who knows, maybe some reads I give more of a chance if I don't know who the asshole is that posted it (just kidding).
73
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:10pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:10pm
jazz_music says
How is this constructive communication?
You're making an assumption that it's a cult, and people would follow Tump into the gates of hell. If Trump bombs Iran, he's dead to me, and a lot of other people.
What makes you certain that all people who oppose Trump are "non cultists" - certainly some seem to qualify. They complain about his racism, his misogyny, his hair, his skin color - who cares? Complain about a policy, or I don't care.
And demigod? The only thing I think that he's done that is really useful is that he's discredited our horrible, poor, propaganda system. If anything, he's a preacher waking them up from the false religion of "mainstream media". Find that weapons of mass destruction program? It's the same place where the Russian Collusion is.
You're projecting a lot of venom on people. The main reason I like Trump, for example, is he's not started a new war. I'm not hard to please, but the last time we had a president that didn't start a new war in his first term was Jimmy Carter. I was 9 when he left office. I get tired of people calling me a "fanatic" or something similar just because I'm overjoyed about not starting up another war to steal shit in my name, with my tax money. Tired of this murderous government keeping us in endless wars.
How does following a cult make you qualified to diagnose all non-cultists as deranged as soon as you criticize the demigod leader?
How is this constructive communication?
You're making an assumption that it's a cult, and people would follow Tump into the gates of hell. If Trump bombs Iran, he's dead to me, and a lot of other people.
What makes you certain that all people who oppose Trump are "non cultists" - certainly some seem to qualify. They complain about his racism, his misogyny, his hair, his skin color - who cares? Complain about a policy, or I don't care.
And demigod? The only thing I think that he's done that is really useful is that he's discredited our horrible, poor, propaganda system. If anything, he's a preacher waking them up from the false religion of "mainstream media". Find that weapons of mass destruction program? It's the same place where the Russian Collusion is.
You're projecting a lot of venom on people. The main reason I like Trump, for example, is he's not started a new war. I'm not hard to please, but the last time we had a president that didn't start a new war in his first term was Jimmy Carter. I was 9 when he left office. I get tired of people calling me a "fanatic" or something similar just because I'm overjoyed about not starting up another war to steal shit in my name, with my tax money. Tired of this murderous government keeping us in endless wars.
74
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:14pm
richwicks
2020 Jun 2, 3:14pm
jazz_music says
What does that have to do with the topic? Why are you posting it in this thread?
From the same article in Quora
https://www.quora.com/Has-the-US-ever-used-military-power-against-its-citizens
What does that have to do with the topic? Why are you posting it in this thread?
75
mell
2020 Jun 2, 3:16pm
richwicks says
Agreed nothing to do with it
jazz_music saysFrom the same article in Quora
https://www.quora.com/Has-the-US-ever-used-military-power-against-its-citizens
What does that have to do with the topic? Why are you posting it in this thread?
Agreed nothing to do with it
76
GNL
2020 Jun 2, 3:18pm
GNL
2020 Jun 2, 3:18pm
I vote to moderate VERY CAREFULLY.
Have a line that people can't cross (I suggest to block anyone who consistently denigrates the Constitution and/or the Bill of Rights), give X number of warnings and then block their IP address.
Have a line that people can't cross (I suggest to block anyone who consistently denigrates the Constitution and/or the Bill of Rights), give X number of warnings and then block their IP address.
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So no more pictures of Trump as an insane clown or talk of his being raped by Putin. That does not address his policies specifically and helps nothing. It just divides us.
And no more phrases like "liberals". That immediately eliminates the possibility of a liberal wanting to have a polite discussion of his point of view here. Again, it just divides us.
We need unity, not more division. E pluribus unum.
I'm just going to flag posts and comments I find to be stirring up hate and division. Don't worry, you'll know what that means, and the author will be able to click the "edit" button to see just what it was that got the post or comment flagged. It will be clear and fair.
Yes, it's a kind of censorship, but my hope is that it will make this site more useful to people of good will who really want to understand their fellow citizens and improve life. While the MSM routinely censors "offensive" ideas like the Red Pill theory, or our innate differences by sex and race, I'm not going to do that. All ideas are still open for discussion in a civil manner. The tag-line "Freedom to Offend" was not being understood as I intended. It seemed to be generating posts that were deliberately and angrily offensive.
Sorry if it seems like the food-fight is over. Everyone is still very welcome to have their say, just treat others as you would wish to be treated, including other political parties and public figures, and you'll still be able to make any point you want.