patrick.net

Gold, silver, copper and pretty shells have been money forever. They are intrinsically valuable.

Dollars, and other world currencies, used to be valued in silver and gold but are now valuable only because governments say so (by fiat).

Bitcoin and other crypto "currencies" are valued in fiat.

Nobody knows how many bitcoins have been lost forever.

OV, how come you never knew about a recovery key when researching Bitcoin?

Money is a believe system. Gold and Fiat dont have intrinsic value. "Shiny" doesnt really count for Gold, many people would say that isnt intrinsic value at all.
A 100 dollar bill has a cost to produce of 14 cents. I dont call this intrinsic value either.
Amazon stock has intrinsic value of maybe 500 dollars but trades for over 3k.
If you only look at intrinsic value in order to make investment decisions you might as well collect silver coins and invest in food and entertainment. Wait, you do! :)

Bitcoin actually has a lot of value. Sure, it trades for roughly 19k at the moment but I mean the traits (in comparison to gold and fiat). Take a look at this chart. Bet you missed this in your Bitcoin research, didnt you :)

G36 says

invest in food and entertainment.

And tools! I was a mechanic in a former life and love to have tools No matter how many tools you collect their is always the one you need that you don't have. When all that you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Last time I counted I had 22 hammers. Sometimes you need a ballpeen other times a claw.

I love tinkering. I do all my own maintenance on my sailboat, motorcycle, and sports car. I want to buy a little hydraulic lift for my shop; I tell the wife it will pay for itself in 2000 oil changes, but she won't go for it.

Alas, there is no scarcity of tools. If we run short some new company will make more, probably in China.

physical gold is heavily overvalued. 9 trillion market cap. Bitcoin is a baby in comparison. Lots, lots and lots of upside ahead of us!

www.youtube.com/embed/nJeddv1QbeQ

G36 says

Money is a believe system.

Jesus is a believe system! Bitcoin is a scam.

G36 says

Gold and Fiat dont have intrinsic value.

If you don't think gold has intrinsic value, what do you think does?

Onvacation says

G36 says

Gold and Fiat dont have intrinsic value.

If you don't think gold has intrinsic value, what do you think does?

lots of things, stocks, my real estate, food, entertainment, medicine, tools, love, marriage, a great relationship with your neighbor.

G36 says

Onvacation says

G36 says

Gold and Fiat dont have intrinsic value.

If you don't think gold has intrinsic value, what do you think does?

lots of things, stocks, my real estate, food, entertainment, medicine, tools, love, marriage, a great relationship with your neighbor.

But not bitcoin?

Bitcoin has great value.



right now, its trading above 18k. Citibank believes it will go to 318k a coin next year.

This thread is to counter all of the misinformation about bitcoin. If you have FOMO about crypto, go to one of the other threads.

Bitcoin is a scam.

Onvacation says

This thread is to counter all of the misinformation about bitcoin. .

exactly. remember when you spread misinformation about Bitcoin and I corrected you?

"last bitcoin will be mined in 2040". No, its actually 100 years later. 2140.

Gold is valued in fiat. Fiat used to be valued in gold and they called it money. US paper used to be valued in silver and gold but no more.

Not only does bitcoin have no intrinsic value it costs money to maintain. It requires new money just to pay the power bill.

I will be really surprised if bitcoin, in it's current programming, lasts until 2030.

agree, gold and a paper dollar bill have no intrinsic value. Maybe buy real estate or food if you are looking to put your money in intrinsic value. I would recommend Bitcoin. Excellent inflation hedge and best performing asset.

G36 says

remember when you spread misinformation about Bitcoin and I corrected you?

"last bitcoin will be mined in 2040". No, its actually 100 years later. 2140.

2030

Maybe 2025

G36 says

gold and a paper dollar bill have no intrinsic value.

gold actually has a lot of industrial uses so it has inherent value at least to tune of 8%. Electronics, catalysts, some medical use, etc. If one wants a precious metal with a lot of industrial use, take a look at palladium, rhodium, or platinum.
I am kinda skeptical about crypto's because they seem to be 0's and 1's stored in Russian hackers computer, similar to fiat which is now mostly 0's and 1's stored in New York Fed's bank computer, and I do not know which of them is more crooked, probably the Fed. On the other hand, at this point State is not involved with crypto's, which is a huge plus.

Dbr6 says

On the other hand, at this point State is not involved with crypto's, which is a huge plus.

They are. I promise you. Hence one of the many reasons I won't touch the stuff. The people that think some random Asian guy made this up and government is not involved is hysterical. Don't have a claim to which government, but most the worlds governments are now involved. It's cute to think it's decentralized, but it's not. That's the downfall of it as a "currency" so to speak. This trust in it, when there's literally nothing to trust about it. Everyone is welcome to do what they like, but I think anyone would be crazy to touch the stuff outside of principled trading techniques. It's not an investment. Never will be.

Crypto is going to take off. Probably mind-blowing to some.

"In their “Flows & Liquidity” report, JPMorgan analysts say institutions are piling into bitcoin at a stronger pace this quarter than they were in Q3, and may have a bigger role in price movement than commodity trading advisors, or CTA."

https://www.coindesk.com/jpmorgan-analysts-bitcoin-institutional-buyers

There hasnt been a single day of us not receiving bullish news of institutional FOMO. Bitcoin transitioned from speculation to a pretty sure longer term investment asset. Exciting times ahead.

G36 says

institutions are piling into bitcoin at a stronger pace this quarter than they were in Q3,

Why? What are the fundamentals that make bitcoin such a good investment? Beside FOMO.

OV, does that mean you havent bought Bitcoin yet???

G36 says

There hasnt been a single day of us not receiving bullish news of institutional FOMO. Bitcoin transitioned from speculation to a pretty sure longer term investment asset. Exciting times ahead.

Already happened once. Be cautious. It's going to plummet again. This time will likely be worse and take longer to get back into the current phase. At some point there will be a cross roads where no one trusts it anymore and your money is worthless and it won't get back up to current valuation. This is a when, not an if. I'm not going to predict a timeline with pumpers, but it's coming, hence your activity here and probably other sites to keep it afloat. The bilge pump can only keep up with so many holes in the boat. At some point it's overwhelmed and sinks.

wookie, you disagree with the Citibank price target of 318K by 2021 for Bitcoin?
Whats your target range? 250k?

G36 says

OV, does that mean you havent bought Bitcoin yet???

Nope! but as soon as I get some investors I'm gonna mine me some
https://patrick.net/post/1314087/2018-02-28-getrichquickcoins

I'm starting a new cryptocurrency. I am selling them at a discount while I set up the blockchain (a free open source technology where a continuously growing list of records, called blocks, are linked and secured using cryptography).

If you send me a dollar now I will send you a unique (kinda) sequence of bits (0s and 1s) when I start mining the blockchain.
GetRichQuickCoins, the currency of the future!

Wanna buy some?

G36 says

the Citibank price target of 318K by 2021 for Bitcoin?

THIS! is why we never should have bailed out those bankers.

They get FREE MONEY to loan at interest and still can't keep their books balanced.

OV, calm down.
And maybe take an economics class. With failing banks you have a depression like never seen before. never heard: too big to fail?
You start to sound like these occupy wall street nutjobs.

lol

Hey G,
I see you got yourself an ignore. Work harder, you'll catch up to my 6.

The way I see it crypto is kind of a musical chair kind of investment. As long as more people keep on giving the miners money to produce (currently about 900 coins a day) they will keep on mining. They spend ALL of this money on electricity, new hardware, construction, housing, food, blow, hookers, etc. and this money is GONE!

The only thing that keeps the party going is if someone is willing to pay for the bitcoin.

Someday the whole world is going to realize there is no there there.

Good luck on your investment. Just make sure you get out before the miners can't make enough money to support the ever-increasing cost of the "decentralized" system.

Still have not addressed the "scarcity" gimmick of the "currency of the future"

Stay tuned.

G36 says

wookie, you disagree with the Citibank price target of 318K by 2021 for Bitcoin?
Whats your target range? 250k?

By when in 2021? It's about 40 days away. It will go back into 4 figure territory at some point in my opinion and could stay there for longer than it did after the last pump 3 years ago. You might want to question why a big bank would itself be pumping price targets of $318k. You're playing with people that can destroy you and not blink if they lose $50M. That's all I'll keep saying. It's an unregulated stock and not a currency. Know what you're playing with.

probably not Jan1 is my guess. Maybe towards the end of the year we will see the 318k per Bitcoin. Due to scarcity and decentralization, I believe its doable.
Institutional FOMO is strong....and thats big money.

G36 says

and thats big money.

Works both ways. Big money can get sucked out as fast as it came in. And it will at some point as there's nothing of value with crypto. It's literally no different than a video game. Except the players with money to buy advantages have many more zeros in their account than you do and can afford to lose more.

WookieMan says

It's literally no different than a video game.

No. Video games are entertaining.

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

It's literally no different than a video game.

No. Video games are entertaining.

So is crypto though. It's like watching Nolan Ryan pitch to a 12 year old. We all know who is going to win, regardless of the blind swing occasionally making contact. Most are swings and misses. I fear for the hit by pitch though with a lot of these crypto "investors."

https://news.bitcoin.com/us-cryptocurrency-regulation-sec-chairman-jay-clayton-bitcoin/

SEC Chairman Jay Clayton Explains US Crypto Regulation, Calls Bitcoin a Store of Value

Very bullish news. I think the 9Trillion market cap for Gold and the 400B market cap for Bitcoin will soon shift dramatically. Institutional investors see a multi trillion market cap for Bitcoin. Gold will still play a small role in the future.

G36 says

Gold will still play a small role in the future.

Gold will always be valuable. A tremendous amount of work and energy is required to mine and refine it into the shiny, non corroding, malleable, extremely conductive and non reactive metal that real gold is. All the work is preserved in the metal which has uncountable uses in industry and fashion. It has been money, real money, since time immemorial. Hold it, own it.

The pseudo gold, or digital "gold" called bitcoin is "mined" using tremendous amounts of work and energy. When done the "miner" earns some "coins" which get sold to pay for expenses. All the work used to "mine" these "coins" must constantly be redone in order to preserve the "anonymous" ledger that keeps track of "coin" ownership.

The price of the "coins" MUST go up as the bitcoin puzzles to be solved get harder and require more work and energy to earn less "coins". As long as new buyers keep on adding money to the system the "miners" can continue to run their "mines" and feed their families. Most of the money put into bitcoin is consumed to keep bitcoin running.

WHEN the plug is pulled the coins are gone.

WOW

"I joined in April this year, at that time our assets, institutional assets under custody were $6 billion, today we stand at over $20 billion, so more than a three time increase."
“We have had an explosion of activity,”

https://news.bitcoin.com/coinbase-20-billion-cryptocurrency-custody-institutional-investors/

There are only 21 million Bitcoins. There are 2 billion working people in the world. Final Bitcoin value = (average individual economic productivity) × (number of productive people) ÷ (21 million). A GROSS simplification, but the answers is in the tens of billions $ per coin. — John McAfee (@officialmcafee) November 30, 2017

bitcoin going to the moon
the currency of the future
buy now or be priced out forever
they're not making any more
$317,000 per coin next year
buy now at bargain price of $20,000
1600% profit if you get in now