patrick.net

mell says

it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land

Kind of like lotto tickets. Don't spend more than you can lose.

Onvacation says

mell says

it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.

What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?

Any of the above. Also inflation hedge and a more anonymous, decentralized way of conducting business. Just because it's (partially) deemed criminal now to evade taxes doesn't mean it will stay that way if enough institutions jump into it and lobby. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who currently hide their gains and transactions to save cap gains tax and/or sales/transaction taxes.

mell says

Onvacation says

mell says

it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.

What are the uses of bitcoin?

Onvacation says

mell says

it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.

What are the uses of bitcoin?

Just take a look. Its digital gold. Obviously!

G36 says

Obviously!

How so? Still waiting for a cogent argument.

Onvacation says

G36 says

Obviously!

How so? Still waiting for a cogent argument.

Thats easy

Tell us more about "market cap".

Onvacation says

Tell us more about "market cap".

I don't do ignore, but I think we need to just let this go. Move on. You, myself and others have put out facts and thoughts on crypto, specifically BTC. He's not going to answer because he can't or simply doesn't know. Let him have his circle jerk with whoever wants to receive it.

He threw a $1 corner bet and won... for now. The problem is he thinks sitting at the casino all night is a good idea instead of taking gains. That's why most gamblers are losers. He's likely 27, got sold on crypto by Uncle Ralph at Christmas 2017 and has been holding dead money until now. Throws up screen shots from accounts that look like they're from a pixelated 1990's computer screen. I mean come on, can't even take some gains and buy a decent PC, Mac or phone?

I'm convinced he's paid to do this and has done it under other usernames here. Not a knock on patnet, I know there are tons of lurkers, but I'm not sure the end goal. I don't really understand what paid pumping gets you at patnet. Doesn't understand what a troll is either. Thought the youngster were smarter with the web...

WookieMan says

a good idea

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/89533/anthony-scaramuccis-skybridge-has-invested-182-million-into-bitcoin-according-to-deck

Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!

G36 says

Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!

Lol. There's zero proof they invested a dime. You don't have any proof besides what they say because it's anonymous, right? It's okay to say yes when someone is right. This round might be the pump that kills BTC. The fake trust in it will be tested after this run. I hope you're taking gains, because the fall is going to be dramatic.

personal

BTC has better ecosystem for now. If any other crypro(s) can do that, can immediately challenge BTC. Search for "How to Get Started on Creating Your Own Cryptocurrency". Any high school drop out can do it.

@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!

G36 says

@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!

As I mentioned BTC is one ecosystem away. Like others mentioned, folks who are in, they try to pump up even more for now. My point was, there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.

Blue says

there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.

But there is, the blockchain.

Think about this. Bitcoin won against hundreds if not thousands of cryptos! Institutions are pouring millions and millions of USD into Bitcoin. The price is headed towards 30k and the market cap is bigger than Berkshire Hathaway. We are in ultra bullish conditions for Bitcoin (digital gold).

Other than the criminals that use bitcoin to launder money, there are two types of crypto users, traders and holders.

The "traders" of crypto are hoping they can time the market and sell to a greater fool before the greatest fools are left holding flash drives of bits that nobody wants. They hope to get lucky.

Then there are the holders. The pathetic part about crypto holders is the fact that many of them don't recognize the contradiction of owning the "currency of the future" that will "someday" be worth hundreds of thousand or even millions of dollars per coin. As if when government fiat fails crypto will take over. Some even have holdings in multiple different crypto system "coins". Holders (HODLer's) think they own gold or currency.

G36 says

the market cap is bigger

When It comes to crypto, how would you define market cap?

For stocks (from Investopedia):

"Market capitalization refers to the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares of stock. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying the total number of a company's outstanding shares by the current market price of one share."

Market capitalization of Toyota (TM) Market cap: $209.03 B As of December 2020 Toyota has a market cap of $209.03 B.This makes Toyota the world's 38th most valuable company. If you own a share of Toyota you own a piece of Toyota's assets.

What do you own when you own a bitcoin?

Onvacation says

Market capitalization of Toyota (TM) Market cap: $209.03 B As of December 2020 Toyota has a market cap of $209.03 B.This makes Toyota the world's 38th most valuable company. If you own a share of Toyota you own a piece of Toyota's assets.

What do you own when you own a bitcoin?

Lol. Here, I'll respond for him. G36 says

Given its "market cap" this will likely go down as the biggest fraud in world history outside of wars. Lol... market cap. Never thought one could get dumber after receiving facts. You think one would stop posting after so many times being incorrect about what one is "investing" in.

Onvacation says

What do you own when you own a bitcoin?

just scroll up. Onvacation already answered that question:

"Holders (HODLer's) own gold."

Its almost correct. Say digital gold or gold 2.0 next time.

Wookie posted the chart that shows the traits of money. Bitcoin is much better than the old gold.

G36 says

Onvacation says

What do you own when you own a bitcoin?

just scroll up. Onvacation already answered that question:

"Holders (HODLer's) own gold."

Its almost correct. Say digital gold or gold 2.0 next time.

Wookie posted the chart that shows the traits of money. Bitcoin is much better than the old gold.

You (we) are beating a dead horse here onvacation. He won't answer a question and we're just pushing this shit back to the top of Patnet everyday. At some point it is legit spam and we should just flag it as such. I can handle the personal insults as I'm a bigger man, but I'll just start flagging it as spam when it is. Which most of it is. I've been a part of penny stock forums and this is classic spam/pump behavior. No point in torturing other users any longer and drowning out other topics. Just flag it.

personal

G36 says

Sry wooki, i dont interact with trolls

@G36

How big do you think the biggest fool holding crypto will be?

personal

Again G, if you think it is such a great investment why don't you answer questions?

Not expecting a cogent answer.

What questions havent I answered?? Bitcoin is digital gold.

G36 says

Bitcoin is digital gold.

Why do you think that? Your own words not charts. What do you think makes bitcoin "digital gold"? Is it shiny? Does it store the value of the labor used to mine it? can you efficiently trade it for useful stuff?

I just don't see crypto as anything more than a vehicle for shady people to move money and trick rubes.

Onvacation says

What do you own when you own a bitcoin?

G36 says

What questions havent I answered??

Saying digital gold isn't an answer....

Sry i dont interact with trolls.

G36 says

Sry i dont interact with trolls.

Who is a troll? You keep saying that.

After recent price spike, bitcoin requires enough power for a country of more than 200 million people

At 92.8 terawatt hours annualized, bitcoin’s power consumption is slightly ahead of Pakistan’s consumption in 2016, and not wildly away from the Netherlands’ consumption that year. Put a different way, the electricity consumed by minting bitcoin could power all the tea kettles in Britain for 21 years.

Two-thirds of bitcoin production is done out of China. More than half of China’s energy output comes from coal, so the bitcoin production is likely to be particularly dirty.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-recent-price-spike-the-energy-to-produce-bitcoin-could-power-a-country-of-more-than-200-million-people-11609244670

It's unsustainable. Just sayin'

Onvacation says

It's unsustainable. Just sayin'

You're not wrong. Hence why you'll never get an answer and just be called a troll. You'll just get the same graph again and "blahhg, digital gold!" This is why his comments and OP's should just be marked as spam. No different than someone posting X company is all you should buy, with links and contributes nothing else. That's spam.

I just started this thread to point out the flaws of using blockchain as a "currency" and to point out the flaws in the thinking of the people that think it is a legitimate investment and not just for money laundering or gambling.

The fact that the crypto pumpers can't or refuse to give cogent answers to valid questions reflects poorly on them.

I'm purging a bunch now. Including my own personal comments. This all has turned into bullshit because of one spammer. Conversation isn't happening and it is just spamming the forum at this point, including my responses. This isn't a crypto forum or penny stock forum. These topics are fine, but it has gotten out of hand and no discussion happening, just pumping a product. Patrick should at least get paid for that.

Why Warren Buffett will never own bitcoin.

Buffett believes that Bitcoin has no underlying value. As a value investor, Buffett invests in companies that are undervalued, produce stable and recurring cash flow and have the ability to increase in book value. To Buffett, Bitcoin doesn’t produce earnings or dividends. Rather, the value of Bitcoin is simply what one person is willing to pay for it. In this regard, Bitcoin is no different than the tulip craze of 1637. Therefore, Buffett believes that Bitcoin has no inherent value.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/01/03/bitcoin-hit-34000-but-heres-why-warren-buffett-will-never-own-it/?sh=5f5d271e42bb

There is no there there.

Buffett only invests in things he understands
This may sound obvious to some: only invest in things you understand. However, too many investors, especially retail investors, chase investments based on headlines and stock tips from friends. They don’t do their research or conduct due diligence before investing. Rather, they hear about this “hot technology” and simply buy the stock. Or, they hear about that stock that soared 20% and automatically conclude it will jump another 20%. Sometimes, stocks go up for all kinds of reasons, and this “strategy” may work. Over time, and across an entire investment portfolio, however, it won’t work. In contrast, Buffett has a set of investment principles that he follows. He prefers to invest in stable consumer goods companies like Coca-Cola and financial services companies like American Express AXP +0.8%. If a potential investment falls outside his area of expertise, he rarely, if ever, buys it. Sometimes, there are exceptions, but mostly Buffett invests only in sectors and business models that he understands.

Should you buy Bitcoin: Do you have a set of investment principles? Or, do you simply buy what you read or hear about it without conducting any independent research? Couldn’t you simply buy Bitcoin to own it even if it doesn’t fit your typical investment criteria? Sure. When you think about portfolio strategy, however, you should understand why you own every position (and if you’re comfortable buying a position that you may not fully understand).

Crypto is not gold. It's a game of musical chairs. Don't be left standing when the music stops.

Bitcoin is a highly speculative investment
For some, Bitcoin is the single greatest investment in their lifetime. For others, it’s a speculative bubble that will crash to zero. Buffett doesn’t play in this sandbox. Why? Buffett isn’t a speculative investor; instead, he invests in companies that have a wide economic moat. While all investing involves some degree of speculation, Buffett’s background is in insurance and risk mitigation. Buffett doesn’t invest in “high fliers”—that’s not his game. His game is “buy and hold”—forever. He invests in companies that grow over time, steadily and consistently.

Should you buy Bitcoin: Here is a helpful way to approach a potentially speculative investment. The upside is easy: you make a lot of money. As I explain in The Lemonade Life, focus on the downside. Are you comfortable with Bitcoin being worth zero? Are you willing to lose 100% of your investment?

Should you buy Bitcoin?
You need to decide for yourself, and with the help of your financial advisor, if Bitcoin is right for you. Warren Buffett is only one investor. Critics say he doesn’t understand cryptocurrency or blockchain technology, and he’s already missed some of Bitcoin’s meteoric rise. After all, regardless of the underlying reason, each Bitcoin is now worth about $34,000. Isn’t that proof enough that it’s a good investment? Maybe. It’s possible, although unlikely, that Buffett ultimately changes his mind. Buffett said for years he wouldn’t buy technology stocks, only later to buy Apple AAPL +0.9%. Until then, however, Buffett is not a fan of Bitcoin and says he never will be.

It's gambling.

Why Cryptocurrency Market Cap Doesn’t Matter

If you were to ask the average person in the cryptocurrency community where they go to find the success of a specific digital currency, they’ll likely point to sites like World Coin Index, Coin Market Cap, or some other market cap platform. Based on the rankings these lists provide, users believe they can garner further insight into the valuation of a currency. Basically, the higher a coin ranks, the better it is performing.

The sad reality is that there isn’t much value in these types of list, and using them doesn’t make a lot of sense...

If you’re unfamiliar with market capitalization, it is measured as the total value each share of a company based on its current market price. You can calculate market capitalization by multiplying the amount of outstanding shared times the market price. For instance, if your company has 100,000 shares outstanding, and the price of one share is $2.50, then your market capitalization comes to $250,000.

CoinMarketCapitalization and similar sites use this system with cryptocurrencies and base their lists on the same basis that the stock market used. The market cap of a specific digital currency is stated as the number of coins on the market (or the circulating supply) multiplied by the price of the coin.

Determining Value
The more coins that are in circulation or the higher the price of a given cryptocurrency, then the higher it will rank on the CoinMarketCap site. The problem here is that many people place a lot of value on a coin’s market cap ranking, which is questionable at best. CoinMarketCap’s value is nonsensical, something that a lot of folks simply don’t realize.

Hypothetical Situation
Let’s say you decide you want to start a cryptocurrency. You set up your blockchain with 100 million coins at the outset. Once you’re all set up, you then go to your friend and ask that they buy one of your coins for $10. If you use the same calculations as CoinMarketCap, your new coin now has a market capitalization of $1 Billion.

Congratulations! You now own a cryptocurrency that ranked in the top ten on CoinMarketCap. This despite the fact that only $10 have been invested into a coin which is now valued at $1 billion USD...

Many believe that market cap is the amount of investment a cryptocurrency has received. This is not the case and can be shown by using a simple calculation. Let’s use Bitcoin for instance:

As recently as December of 2018, the first coin had a market capitalization of $100B on CoinMarketCap. However, just 12 months earlier, Bitcoin was listed with a market cap of three times the amount at $300B.

Before we get too far, let’s first calculate the amount actually invested in Bitcoin. There are on average, 1800 Bitcoins mined each and every day. Up until July of 2016, there were double that amount, or 3600 Bitcoins mined per day. Prior to that, there were 7200 Bitcoins mined each day.

Now, let’s assume that every BTC mined was traded by the miners as a means to pay for expenses such as hardware, electricity, and so on. That means there were buyers for their Bitcoin and that the mined BTC was sold for the market price the same day it was mined.

The remaining volume traded each day moves back and forth by Bitcoin based on the amount invested, which doesn’t add up to much. At that point, you’ll see increases, except those times when a trader takes a loss on their Bitcoin.

Based on daily growth, and ignoring the daily rate, the calculations tell us that there might have been a little over $10B investing in Bitcoin as of December 2018. But don’t forget that miners may not sell all their Bitcoin and that there are reports that Bitcoins have been lost or misplaced as well. That means that CoinMarketCap is valuing Bitcoin at more than 10 times the actual amount invested in the coin itself...

Wrapping Up
Using market cap to evaluate cryptocurrencies is nonsense. It is a number that assigns a fabricated value to a coin based manipulating the way said value is calculated. This means market cap is an unsuitable method to measure and rank coin value or importance.

This value does not give insight into how much capital has been invested into a coin, nor does it give any indication of the quality of the cryptocurrency itself. It only shows that there are some clever marketing folks in the industry who are creative in how they manipulate the supply of coins in circulation.

https://toshitimes.com/why-cryptocurrency-market-cap-doesnt-matter/

scam

Onvacation says

Why Warren Buffett will never own bitcoin.

Buffett believes that Bitcoin has no underlying value. As a value investor, Buffett invests in companies that are undervalued, produce stable and recurring cash flow and have the ability to increase in book value. To Buffett, Bitcoin doesn’t produce earnings or dividends. Rather, the value of Bitcoin is simply what one person is willing to pay for it. In this regard, Bitcoin is no different than the tulip craze of 1637. Therefore, Buffett believes that Bitcoin has no inherent value.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/01/03/bitcoin-hit-34000-but-heres-why-warren-buffett-will-never-own-it/?sh=5f5d271e42bb

There is no there there.

Don't idolize buffet he hasn't been doing that great lately and made most of his recent wins via backdoor taxpayer secured deals from the 2008 crisis. It's easy when you have a direct line to the secretary of the treasury and the government. He is a great investor but has mostly stepped down anyways, it's not his world anymore. And I think it's wrong to say it has no value. There is a middle ground between worthless and 100k