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Billionaires are desperate to keep you from talking about the harm billionaires do, and a tax plan to stop it
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2020 Nov 30, 8:26pm 2,248 views 96 comments
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57
Patrick
2020 Dec 3, 8:37am
Patrick
2020 Dec 3, 8:37am
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/30/940196997/amazon-reportedly-has-pinkerton-agents-surveil-workers-who-try-to-form-unions
According to documents, Amazon reportedly runs a surveillance program to track activism among its workers. NPR's Ari Shapiro talks with Lauren Gurley of Motherboard magazine, who broke the story.
More than a century ago, the titans of industry hired private agents to crack down on labor strikes and union organizers at steel mills and factories in the U.S. Those agents were called Pinkerton detectives. Now the giant of a new industry is using the same approach. A story from Vice magazine's Motherboard reports that leaked documents show that Amazon hired Pinkerton operatives in Europe to surveil workers. The story also reports that Amazon monitors workers who try to form unions or take part in protest movements. We need to note that Amazon is an NPR funder.
58
Patrick
2020 Dec 3, 8:55am
Patrick
2020 Dec 3, 8:55am
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55173063
Gosh, both Amazon and Google squashing attempts at worker unions? Who next? Apple?
Google fired employees for union activity, says US agency
Google unlawfully fired employees for attempting to organise a union, a US federal agency has said.
A complaint filed by the US National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) alleged that Google unlawfully monitored and questioned its employees about their union activity.
It fired a number of staff for violating data security - but the NLRB said the rules were applied only to those engaging in union activity.
Gosh, both Amazon and Google squashing attempts at worker unions? Who next? Apple?
59
Bd6r
2020 Dec 3, 9:42am
Bd6r
2020 Dec 3, 9:42am
Patrick says
but orange man is just like Hitler, hates poor people and minorities.
Gosh, both Amazon and Google squashing attempts at worker unions? Who next? Apple?
but orange man is just like Hitler, hates poor people and minorities.
60
Reality
2020 Dec 3, 9:46am
Perhaps a better solution is not outright taxation but less stringent government enforcement of "intellectual property." The overwhelming majority of Billionaires' wealth come from "intellectual property" (especially the big pharma and the software/internet companies). Reducing government regulation on the enforcibility of "intellectual property" in terms of duration and if something that is really important / extremely profitable yet deductively/intuitively obvious (e.g. people can not patent natural laws and try to profit from the discovery of gravity or quantum tunneling) would go a long way towards promoting competition, which is a better way of whittling away Billionaire concentration in favor of more beneficial entreprenuership for the vast majority of consumers who can benefit from the competition.
Union activity in an industry is indicative of too much market power concentration. Breaking up the firms into smaller competitors so that workers and consumers can both price-shop would be a better solution than either big bosses busting workers (like around 1930) or workers turning out unreliable cars (like in the 1980's, when Japanese cars made a name for their reliability because of the unreliable American cars made by union workers and management catering to those union contracts).
Union activity in an industry is indicative of too much market power concentration. Breaking up the firms into smaller competitors so that workers and consumers can both price-shop would be a better solution than either big bosses busting workers (like around 1930) or workers turning out unreliable cars (like in the 1980's, when Japanese cars made a name for their reliability because of the unreliable American cars made by union workers and management catering to those union contracts).
61
HeadSet
2020 Dec 3, 9:54am
HeadSet
2020 Dec 3, 9:54am
Gosh, both Amazon and Google squashing attempts at worker unions? Who next? Apple?
Not just no unions, no employees. There is no reason Amazon delivery drivers should not be full benefit employees of Amazon, rather than gig workers.
Not just no unions, no employees. There is no reason Amazon delivery drivers should not be full benefit employees of Amazon, rather than gig workers.
62
Bd6r
2020 Dec 3, 10:03am
Bd6r
2020 Dec 3, 10:03am
Reality says
This will be quite difficult, at least in Pharma. Some new drugs, such as newest anticancer antibody type ones, are extremely expensive to develop, so no one in his right mind will do it if they can not reap profits afterwards. After the first one develops (and earns a lot of money), competitors rip the idea off and create clones. Then again there is no reason why drug companies can use basic research from other places basically free, while patenting their own research.
Perhaps a better solution is not outright taxation but less stringent government enforcement of "intellectual property." The overwhelming majority of Billionaires' wealth come from "intellectual property" (especially the big pharma and the software/internet companies). Reducing government regulation on the enforcibility of "intellectual property" in terms of duration and if something that is really important / extremely profitable yet deductively/intuitively obvious (e.g. people can not patent natural laws and try to profit from such discovery) would go a long way towards promoting competition, which is a better way of whittling away Billionaire concentration in favor of more beneficial entreprenuership for the vast majority of consumers who can benefit from the competition.
This will be quite difficult, at least in Pharma. Some new drugs, such as newest anticancer antibody type ones, are extremely expensive to develop, so no one in his right mind will do it if they can not reap profits afterwards. After the first one develops (and earns a lot of money), competitors rip the idea off and create clones. Then again there is no reason why drug companies can use basic research from other places basically free, while patenting their own research.
63
Reality
2020 Dec 3, 10:07am
Dbr6 says
I didn't advocate removing all patent rights. Reducing patent duration and/or the ability to extend drug patent through minor modifications can go a long way towards enabling generic competition. Also, if the basic research is from public funding, then what we need are generic drug companies that have some staff to help the transition from public research results to generics, perhaps a 5-10yr patent profit window for the manufacturing process (i.e. 10-15yr window from original drug discovery), instead of the current massively expensive marketing outfits holding onto exclusive patents for many decades via minor modifications.
Furthermore, this shorter patent window would also induce more research towards cures instead of research towards creating patient dependency (i.e. drugs that don't cure but would put the patients on the expensive drugs for the rest of their lives, decades at taxpayer expense, which is bankrupting the society)
This will be quite difficult, at least in Pharma. Some new drugs, such as newest anticancer antibody type ones, are extremely expensive to develop, so no one in his right mind will do it if they can not reap profits afterwards. After the first one develops (and earns a lot of money), competitors rip the idea off and create clones. Then again there is no reason why drug companies can use basic research from other places basically free, while patenting their own research.
I didn't advocate removing all patent rights. Reducing patent duration and/or the ability to extend drug patent through minor modifications can go a long way towards enabling generic competition. Also, if the basic research is from public funding, then what we need are generic drug companies that have some staff to help the transition from public research results to generics, perhaps a 5-10yr patent profit window for the manufacturing process (i.e. 10-15yr window from original drug discovery), instead of the current massively expensive marketing outfits holding onto exclusive patents for many decades via minor modifications.
Furthermore, this shorter patent window would also induce more research towards cures instead of research towards creating patient dependency (i.e. drugs that don't cure but would put the patients on the expensive drugs for the rest of their lives, decades at taxpayer expense, which is bankrupting the society)
64
Zak
2020 Dec 4, 10:15am
http://paulgraham.com/ace.html
An interesting article about the general hate for billionaires. I think they make a great point about some of these startup founders being focused on the customer, and being motivated and interested in the problem they are solving. It's so much easier to just hate on billionaires and call them evil than to recognize there are 10,000 people just like the bilionaires who are slightly less successful, but still wildly successful, and they are doing it by bringing products to market. It's easier to just focus on targets to hate, and not on the problems in the system, and the individual actions we can take in our own lives to also be successful.
Of course, it's hard to found a startup when you are having trouble paying rent on a one bedroom apartment while working two jobs.
An interesting article about the general hate for billionaires. I think they make a great point about some of these startup founders being focused on the customer, and being motivated and interested in the problem they are solving. It's so much easier to just hate on billionaires and call them evil than to recognize there are 10,000 people just like the bilionaires who are slightly less successful, but still wildly successful, and they are doing it by bringing products to market. It's easier to just focus on targets to hate, and not on the problems in the system, and the individual actions we can take in our own lives to also be successful.
Of course, it's hard to found a startup when you are having trouble paying rent on a one bedroom apartment while working two jobs.
65
just_passing_through
2020 Dec 4, 7:39pm
just_passing_through
2020 Dec 4, 7:39pm
So there was a pdf on the interwebs back in the late 90s. It described government collusion (er, I mean reasons) with tech companies to bring in more foreign labor (h1b). Anyone have a link to that thing? I think I've seen it posted on patnet before. It was some pdf or something.
66
Patrick
2020 Dec 4, 7:50pm
Patrick
2020 Dec 4, 7:50pm
Zak says
There should be no billionaires at all, ever.
No one deserves that much money.
The profit motive is great, but that's beyond mere profit.
Maybe I should clarify that money is servants. To have a billion dollars is to have tens of thousands of personal servants. Does anyone need that many personal servants?
People get confused about this. Money is not gold, or dollars. It's control over labor.
https://patrick.net/post/1336214/2020-10-31-readme#Money
An interesting article about the general hate for billionaires.
There should be no billionaires at all, ever.
No one deserves that much money.
The profit motive is great, but that's beyond mere profit.
Maybe I should clarify that money is servants. To have a billion dollars is to have tens of thousands of personal servants. Does anyone need that many personal servants?
People get confused about this. Money is not gold, or dollars. It's control over labor.
https://patrick.net/post/1336214/2020-10-31-readme#Money
67
Bd6r
2020 Dec 5, 8:11am
Bd6r
2020 Dec 5, 8:11am
Patrick says
I did not think that way, but I am coming around to @Patrick point of view. If too much wealth/power is concentrated, it will be used to sustain wealth and power by unproductive means. Last "election" is a very good example. Top 0.01% bought President they wanted.
There should be no billionaires at all, ever.
I did not think that way, but I am coming around to @Patrick point of view. If too much wealth/power is concentrated, it will be used to sustain wealth and power by unproductive means. Last "election" is a very good example. Top 0.01% bought President they wanted.
68
HeadSet
2020 Dec 5, 7:03pm
HeadSet
2020 Dec 5, 7:03pm
Top 0.01% bought President they wanted.
Just like what happened when Rockefeller, Carnegie, and J P Morgan banded together and bought the President they wanted, William McKinley in 1897. But McKinley died in office and their worst nightmare, VP Teddy Roosevelt, took over as President. Today the top billionaires have bought Joe Biden, who will likely not last and we will get our worst nightmare, Kamala Harris as President.
Just like what happened when Rockefeller, Carnegie, and J P Morgan banded together and bought the President they wanted, William McKinley in 1897. But McKinley died in office and their worst nightmare, VP Teddy Roosevelt, took over as President. Today the top billionaires have bought Joe Biden, who will likely not last and we will get our worst nightmare, Kamala Harris as President.
69
just_passing_through
2020 Dec 5, 7:46pm
just_passing_through
2020 Dec 5, 7:46pm
just_passing_through says
Bump... It was the 'original' doc that people (engineers) were freaking out about 90s silicon valley. It was a pdf I think but looked like it was written on a type writer. Damn I wish I could find that again.
So there was a pdf on the interwebs back in the late 90s. It described government collusion (er, I mean reasons) with tech companies to bring in more foreign labor (h1b). Anyone have a link to that thing? I think I've seen it posted on patnet before. It was some pdf or something.
Bump... It was the 'original' doc that people (engineers) were freaking out about 90s silicon valley. It was a pdf I think but looked like it was written on a type writer. Damn I wish I could find that again.
70
Patrick
2020 Dec 5, 7:53pm
Patrick
2020 Dec 5, 7:53pm
Dbr6 says
That's a good way to put it. @Dbr6
If too much wealth/power is concentrated, it will be used to sustain wealth and power by unproductive means.
That's a good way to put it. @Dbr6
71
Patrick
2020 Dec 7, 7:57pm
Patrick
2020 Dec 7, 7:57pm
https://news.gab.com/2020/12/07/what-are-populists-fighting-for/
We’re not fighting for the stock market or for the rigged crony capitalist system of the oligarchs. I’m a supporter of real capitalism that has checks and balances against what our current system has become: crony capitalism that overwhelmingly benefits a few at the top at expense of the rest of us.
When billionaires gain $1 trillion in new collective wealth during the pandemic while hundreds of thousands of small businesses are closed for good, we don’t live in a capitalist society anymore.
We live in a crony capitalist oligarchy.
72
Patrick
2021 Feb 6, 2:39am
Patrick
2021 Feb 6, 2:39am
You know, the problem with conservatives is that they are not willing to criticize the billionaires who undermined the last election.
And the problem with leftists is that have allied themselves with the billionaires who undermined the last election.
And the problem with leftists is that have allied themselves with the billionaires who undermined the last election.
73
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 3:34am
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 3:34am
Patrick says
I’m glad you came around Patrick. I’ve been saying these kind of things for over a decade, and was hated by the left (and right, but primarily the left) for it.
https://patrick.net/post/23997/2009-11-12-pfizer-and-kelo-s-ghost-town-government-gone-wild-again#comment-659297
https://patrick.net/post/25923/2009-12-01-this-isn-t-capitalism#comment-660768
The problem I have with your comment above is that wealth in and of itself is not evil, nor is having wealth evidence of evil. But it is evil to violate the 10 commandments, and specifically all commandments can be summed up as this: love God and your neighbor. If people violate other people’s rights using wealth, government or power to do so, that is evil.
You know, the problem with conservatives is that they are not willing to criticize the billionaires who undermined the last election.
And the problem with leftists is that have allied themselves with the billionaires who undermined the last election.
I’m glad you came around Patrick. I’ve been saying these kind of things for over a decade, and was hated by the left (and right, but primarily the left) for it.
https://patrick.net/post/23997/2009-11-12-pfizer-and-kelo-s-ghost-town-government-gone-wild-again#comment-659297
https://patrick.net/post/25923/2009-12-01-this-isn-t-capitalism#comment-660768
The problem I have with your comment above is that wealth in and of itself is not evil, nor is having wealth evidence of evil. But it is evil to violate the 10 commandments, and specifically all commandments can be summed up as this: love God and your neighbor. If people violate other people’s rights using wealth, government or power to do so, that is evil.
74
richwicks
2021 Feb 6, 6:14am
richwicks
2021 Feb 6, 6:14am
PeopleUnited says
Really? Let me remind you what they are.
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”
Religion and common morality unites us, but it's not within religion. Tell me - where is pedophilia condemned in the bible? I condemn it, but the Bible never did. I'm sure you do as well. I expect your heart is in the right place, but you depend on a foundation of sand and not of rock. I didn't forget all my religious teaching.
You make yourself a moral person, God doesn't. We must have a moral society regardless if there is an afterlife or not. This is our duty. We must be a moral species. Even if there is nothing after this, we must be moral. Our fight is "what is moral?"
But it is evil to violate the 10 commandments
Really? Let me remind you what they are.
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”
Religion and common morality unites us, but it's not within religion. Tell me - where is pedophilia condemned in the bible? I condemn it, but the Bible never did. I'm sure you do as well. I expect your heart is in the right place, but you depend on a foundation of sand and not of rock. I didn't forget all my religious teaching.
You make yourself a moral person, God doesn't. We must have a moral society regardless if there is an afterlife or not. This is our duty. We must be a moral species. Even if there is nothing after this, we must be moral. Our fight is "what is moral?"
75
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 6:32am
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 6:32am
richwicks says
See commandments 7 and 10.
richwicks says
This is where most people err. The 10 commandments were not written to give us the ability to be moral. They were written to prove to us that we are all immoral. In fact if you examine the 10 commandments you will realize that you are immoral just as I have realized the same. The only solution is forgiveness. That can only be found in Jesus. And He can give you the ability to want to avoid sin, though you will never be perfect nor will I.
Tell me - where is pedophilia condemned in the bible
See commandments 7 and 10.
richwicks says
You make yourself a moral person
This is where most people err. The 10 commandments were not written to give us the ability to be moral. They were written to prove to us that we are all immoral. In fact if you examine the 10 commandments you will realize that you are immoral just as I have realized the same. The only solution is forgiveness. That can only be found in Jesus. And He can give you the ability to want to avoid sin, though you will never be perfect nor will I.
76
Booger
2021 Feb 6, 6:49am
Booger
2021 Feb 6, 6:49am
Patrick says
Nope. After they acquire a billion, they leave the US. That's assuming they even stayed past 100M under this proposal. And these numbers would need to be adjusted for real inflation as well, since there is going to be a lot of upper middle class soon enough with 100M with the hyperinflation we are going to get with all the new welfare programs the Democrats are going to enact.
So there would be a limit on how rich you can get in America: one billion dollars in assets. After that level, billionaires stop hogging everything and let others have a chance too.
Nope. After they acquire a billion, they leave the US. That's assuming they even stayed past 100M under this proposal. And these numbers would need to be adjusted for real inflation as well, since there is going to be a lot of upper middle class soon enough with 100M with the hyperinflation we are going to get with all the new welfare programs the Democrats are going to enact.
77
mell
2021 Feb 6, 8:34am
Booger says
Not that easy. Many have multi million dollar mansions across the US and after all it's their homeland, family etc. Until the US turns into a 2nd world shithole they will likely live in the US at least partly. Plus taxes follow you even as an expat, you'd have to give up your citizenship. It's easier for corporations to move abroad than for
individuals. But yes, capital flight always needs to be taken into account.
Patrick saysSo there would be a limit on how rich you can get in America: one billion dollars in assets. After that level, billionaires stop hogging everything and let others have a chance too.
Nope. After they acquire a billion, they leave the US. That's assuming they even stayed past 100M under this proposal. And these numbers would need to be adjusted for real inflation as well, since there is going to be a lot of upper middle class soon enough with 100M with the hyperinflation we are going to get with all the new welfare programs the Democrats are going to enact.
Not that easy. Many have multi million dollar mansions across the US and after all it's their homeland, family etc. Until the US turns into a 2nd world shithole they will likely live in the US at least partly. Plus taxes follow you even as an expat, you'd have to give up your citizenship. It's easier for corporations to move abroad than for
individuals. But yes, capital flight always needs to be taken into account.
78
Patrick
2021 Feb 6, 10:38am
Patrick
2021 Feb 6, 10:38am
PeopleUnited says
@PeopleUnited
I read the whole bible about 20 years ago, and I distinctly remember prohibitions on touching children too much, somewhere in Leviticus, I think.
So it's in there. Also a line on men not wearing women's clothing and vice versa, if I remember right.
richwicks saysTell me - where is pedophilia condemned in the bible
See commandments 7 and 10.
@PeopleUnited
I read the whole bible about 20 years ago, and I distinctly remember prohibitions on touching children too much, somewhere in Leviticus, I think.
So it's in there. Also a line on men not wearing women's clothing and vice versa, if I remember right.
79
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 1:46pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 1:46pm
For sure there is reference to men dressing like men, and not women.
“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.”
Deuteronomy 22:5 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/deu.22.5.kjv
Others that condemn pedos would include: “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”
Ephesians 5:3-12 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/eph.5.3-12.kjv
And
“And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”
Mark 9:42 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/mrk.9.42.kjv
“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.”
Deuteronomy 22:5 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/deu.22.5.kjv
Others that condemn pedos would include: “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”
Ephesians 5:3-12 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/eph.5.3-12.kjv
And
“And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”
Mark 9:42 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/mrk.9.42.kjv
80
Bd6r
2021 Feb 6, 2:05pm
Bd6r
2021 Feb 6, 2:05pm
My issue with Christian religion is that its adepts killed off half of my ancestors a while ago in Northern Crusades because they were pagans. One branch of my ancestors were basically wiped off the face of Earth. So, it seems that just like socialism, which is good on paper, religion is also mostly good on paper.
Non parum animus noster
Non parum animus noster
81
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
2021 Feb 6, 7:11pm
Rb6d says
I think it’s like anything else, let ruling class have no consequences and they go around murdering people. Religion or not, people in charge call the shots. Establishment is cancelling Americans now, next step is throwing people in prison.
My issue with Christian religion is that its adepts killed off half of my ancestors a while ago in Northern Crusades because they were pagans. One branch of my ancestors were basically wiped off the face of Earth. So, it seems that just like socialism, which is good on paper, religion is also mostly good on paper.
Non parum animus noster
I think it’s like anything else, let ruling class have no consequences and they go around murdering people. Religion or not, people in charge call the shots. Establishment is cancelling Americans now, next step is throwing people in prison.
82
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 8:42pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 6, 8:42pm
Rb6d says
I can never be a Trump supporter because some people claiming to be Trump supporters/wearing Trump swag passed through barricades and into the Capitol building, causing he certification process to be delayed. There were no anarchists or posers there either, they were all legitimate Trumpers. Therefore all people who support Trump, or question election integrity are violent insurrectionists.
Do you see how silly that sounds?
By that rationale, a Native American could say that all Europeans are evil because some of them slaughtered Native Americans. And therefore the descendants of Europeans are evil for the next 1000 years right?
I’m sorry some conquering army committed crimes of brutality against some of your ancestors. That being said the conquest though it may have had the “blessing” of religious people was not in the spirit of the founder of Christianity. Jesus did not send his followers out to conquer lands and kill unbelievers. Jesus would condemn this in no uncertain terms.
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/jhn.18.36.kjv
A Christian can be identified by their actions. The conquest of another country or tribe has nothing to do with Christianity, even if you want to believe the lie and hold Christians accountable for what “Christians” have done.
My issue with Christian religion is that its adepts killed off half of my ancestors a while ago in Northern Crusades because they were pagans. One branch of my ancestors were basically wiped off the face of Earth. So, it seems that just like socialism, which is good on paper, religion is also mostly good on paper.
Non parum animus noster
I can never be a Trump supporter because some people claiming to be Trump supporters/wearing Trump swag passed through barricades and into the Capitol building, causing he certification process to be delayed. There were no anarchists or posers there either, they were all legitimate Trumpers. Therefore all people who support Trump, or question election integrity are violent insurrectionists.
Do you see how silly that sounds?
By that rationale, a Native American could say that all Europeans are evil because some of them slaughtered Native Americans. And therefore the descendants of Europeans are evil for the next 1000 years right?
I’m sorry some conquering army committed crimes of brutality against some of your ancestors. That being said the conquest though it may have had the “blessing” of religious people was not in the spirit of the founder of Christianity. Jesus did not send his followers out to conquer lands and kill unbelievers. Jesus would condemn this in no uncertain terms.
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
https://www.bible.com/1/jhn.18.36.kjv
A Christian can be identified by their actions. The conquest of another country or tribe has nothing to do with Christianity, even if you want to believe the lie and hold Christians accountable for what “Christians” have done.
83
Bd6r
2021 Feb 6, 9:14pm
Bd6r
2021 Feb 6, 9:14pm
PeopleUnited says
I get your idea, but thats kinda similar to "this is not real socialism" logic.
Also, no Trump supporters have harmed me or my relatives in any way.
A Christian can be identified by their actions. The conquest of another country or tribe has nothing to do with Christianity, even if you want to believe the lie and hold Christians accountable for what “Christians” have done.
I get your idea, but thats kinda similar to "this is not real socialism" logic.
Also, no Trump supporters have harmed me or my relatives in any way.
84
richwicks
2021 Feb 6, 9:49pm
richwicks
2021 Feb 6, 9:49pm
PeopleUnited says
The guy in a Viking horned helmet with facepaint has refused to eat non organic food. Do you really think he was a Trump supporter? I don't. Do you seriously think this person is an ardent Trump supporter? He was one of the people that broke into the capital.
PeopleUnited says
No True Scottsman...
Ideology is the disease. I used to think religion could make good man evil, but that's not true. It's adherence to ideology, and I think, possibly, truly good men don't adhere to ideology but rather principles.
If there is a true religion, I don't think we can know what it is but we must adhere to principles. With no principles, our society disintegrates. This is the hypothesis of evolutionary psychology. I currently think this is correct but given more information I may conclude it is incorrect.
Our government operates with no principles currently. Justice must be blind, and it must be equally applied. If that is not done, it invites criminal behavior.
I can never be a Trump supporter because some people claiming to be Trump supporters/wearing Trump swag passed through barricades and into the Capitol building, causing he certification process to be delayed. There were no anarchists or posers there either, they were all legitimate Trumpers. Therefore all people who support Trump, or question election integrity are violent insurrectionists.
The guy in a Viking horned helmet with facepaint has refused to eat non organic food. Do you really think he was a Trump supporter? I don't. Do you seriously think this person is an ardent Trump supporter? He was one of the people that broke into the capital.
PeopleUnited says
I’m sorry some conquering army committed crimes of brutality against some of your ancestors. That being said the conquest though it may have had the “blessing” of religious people was not in the spirit of the founder of Christianity. Jesus did not send his followers out to conquer lands and kill unbelievers. Jesus would condemn this in no uncertain terms.
No True Scottsman...
Ideology is the disease. I used to think religion could make good man evil, but that's not true. It's adherence to ideology, and I think, possibly, truly good men don't adhere to ideology but rather principles.
If there is a true religion, I don't think we can know what it is but we must adhere to principles. With no principles, our society disintegrates. This is the hypothesis of evolutionary psychology. I currently think this is correct but given more information I may conclude it is incorrect.
Our government operates with no principles currently. Justice must be blind, and it must be equally applied. If that is not done, it invites criminal behavior.
85
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 5:56am
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 5:56am
richwicks says
No, I don’t. He clearly is not a Trump conservative.
Neither are crusaders servants of Christ.
Do you really think he was a Trump supporter? I don't. Do you seriously think this person is an ardent Trump supporter? He was one of the people that broke into the capital.
No, I don’t. He clearly is not a Trump conservative.
Neither are crusaders servants of Christ.
86
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 6:03am
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 6:03am
richwicks says
Sound like semantics.
The term “ideology” has been envoked by leftists and others seeking to redefine their enemies as evil. When the new world order is established and the great leader comes on the scene, he no doubt will condemn “ideology” that does not support his regime. In fact ideology is a term to discredit the principles that your enemies live by.
Ideology is the disease. I used to think religion could make good man evil, but that's not true. It's adherence to ideology, and I think, possibly, truly good men don't adhere to ideology but rather principles.
Sound like semantics.
The term “ideology” has been envoked by leftists and others seeking to redefine their enemies as evil. When the new world order is established and the great leader comes on the scene, he no doubt will condemn “ideology” that does not support his regime. In fact ideology is a term to discredit the principles that your enemies live by.
88
mell
2021 Feb 7, 8:37am
PeopleUnited says
But you have to defend yourself from attackers / invaders. If you're proposing no Christian should ever raise a hand or weapon in self defense you're playing into those people's hands who want to abolish Christianity from the earth and install leftoid dystopias. Christians as all other religions used to defend themselves and even conquer as a result throughout history. There's nothing wrong with it. If you want to take the pain and fall for somebody by offering your other cheek to actually save them, fine, but letting everyone you love die or being pushed into a worse situation is not Christian. Keep in mind that translations also changed over centuries. I have no problems with a Christian army. Christianity with all of its faults and trials and tribulations and its dark ages overall has done much more good for humanity then most if not all other religions and atheists.
A Christian can be identified by their actions. The conquest of another country or tribe has nothing to do with Christianity, even if you want to believe the lie and hold Christians accountable for what “Christians” have done.
But you have to defend yourself from attackers / invaders. If you're proposing no Christian should ever raise a hand or weapon in self defense you're playing into those people's hands who want to abolish Christianity from the earth and install leftoid dystopias. Christians as all other religions used to defend themselves and even conquer as a result throughout history. There's nothing wrong with it. If you want to take the pain and fall for somebody by offering your other cheek to actually save them, fine, but letting everyone you love die or being pushed into a worse situation is not Christian. Keep in mind that translations also changed over centuries. I have no problems with a Christian army. Christianity with all of its faults and trials and tribulations and its dark ages overall has done much more good for humanity then most if not all other religions and atheists.
90
richwicks
2021 Feb 7, 4:01pm
richwicks
2021 Feb 7, 4:01pm
PeopleUnited says
No, it's taking an idea to an extreme - that's an ideology. Take any concept that seems on the surface to be "good" - for example "I will not kill". Sounds good right? Well, I could refuse to kill animals, that's OK - just means I don't eat meat. Well, maybe I shouldn't kill plants, that's alright, I can still harvest portions of plants (the Jain religion has this restriction). Well, maybe I shouldn't kill bacteria. Maybe I have to prevent YOU from killing plants and animals so I have to use force to stop you.
Christians in the past have imposed their moral viewpoint on other people by force before.
In fact ideology is a term to discredit the principles that your enemies live by.
No, it's taking an idea to an extreme - that's an ideology. Take any concept that seems on the surface to be "good" - for example "I will not kill". Sounds good right? Well, I could refuse to kill animals, that's OK - just means I don't eat meat. Well, maybe I shouldn't kill plants, that's alright, I can still harvest portions of plants (the Jain religion has this restriction). Well, maybe I shouldn't kill bacteria. Maybe I have to prevent YOU from killing plants and animals so I have to use force to stop you.
Christians in the past have imposed their moral viewpoint on other people by force before.
91
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 9:01pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 7, 9:01pm
richwicks says
Christian hating Globalists in the present day are imposing their moral viewpoints on Americans by force.
Christians in the past have imposed their moral viewpoint on other people by force before.
Christian hating Globalists in the present day are imposing their moral viewpoints on Americans by force.
92
Patrick
2021 Feb 7, 11:02pm
Patrick
2021 Feb 7, 11:02pm
PeopleUnited says
We certainly have no vote on the issue.
We have no democracy at all anymore.
The election was clearly fraudulent in the swing states, and deliberately in those states. Not in California, for example, because there was no point.
Biden is a criminal, not the legitimate president.
When a million people tried to protest in DC, they were goaded into, and even invited into the capitol exactly so that they could be fraudulently accused of "insurrection".
And now people protesting the fraudulent vote are being classified as terrorists and hunted by the FBI.
Holy Fuck.
Christian hating Globalists in the present day are imposing their moral viewpoints on Americans by force.
We certainly have no vote on the issue.
We have no democracy at all anymore.
The election was clearly fraudulent in the swing states, and deliberately in those states. Not in California, for example, because there was no point.
Biden is a criminal, not the legitimate president.
When a million people tried to protest in DC, they were goaded into, and even invited into the capitol exactly so that they could be fraudulently accused of "insurrection".
And now people protesting the fraudulent vote are being classified as terrorists and hunted by the FBI.
Holy Fuck.
93
richwicks
2021 Feb 8, 12:17am
richwicks
2021 Feb 8, 12:17am
PeopleUnited says
Do you understand why the US goes to war? To take over the governments and regions. The reason they threaten Russian and repeatedly frame Putin for crimes is because they are trying to take over that government and region. Governments that have ALREADY been taken over, and suck, introduce horrific policies intentionally JUST to get the population to fight one another.
That's why we have all this crap about drag queen story hour, transgendered children, transgendered bathrooms, etc. This is just to keep conflict within a population ongoing.
You know who your friends REALLY are? They're the people of Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc that just want the US to get the fuck out of their country but this is naturally prevented because MOST of the time, they aren't Christian, they are Muslims.
richwicks saysChristians in the past have imposed their moral viewpoint on other people by force before.
Christian hating Globalists in the present day are imposing their moral viewpoints on Americans by force.
Do you understand why the US goes to war? To take over the governments and regions. The reason they threaten Russian and repeatedly frame Putin for crimes is because they are trying to take over that government and region. Governments that have ALREADY been taken over, and suck, introduce horrific policies intentionally JUST to get the population to fight one another.
That's why we have all this crap about drag queen story hour, transgendered children, transgendered bathrooms, etc. This is just to keep conflict within a population ongoing.
You know who your friends REALLY are? They're the people of Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc that just want the US to get the fuck out of their country but this is naturally prevented because MOST of the time, they aren't Christian, they are Muslims.
94
MisdemeanorRebel
2021 Feb 8, 12:37am
MisdemeanorRebel
2021 Feb 8, 12:37am
Every society has the right to defend itself.
The problem with Christian Liberals (in the broad sense), is they were so intimidated by the thought of having to decide between conflicting principles, they did nothing, which had they effect of giving the keys to Postmarxist Wokists, who took over Culture. And politics is downstream from culture.
The same 60s Radicals who demanded Free Speech now demand total compliance with their Religion of No Name, or you'll be unpersoned. And they brought a huge chunk of Yuppiespawn with them to enforce their rules.
Moderate Liberals (again, broad sense of the term) made a choice to balk in the 60s and 70s and not to totally crush Postmarxist Insurgents due to conflict with Liberal Principles, and now are paying the price.
We've gone long past "problematic" figures being removed from history, to the total scapegoating of the greatest, most humane civilization in History, Western Civ.
The problem with Christian Liberals (in the broad sense), is they were so intimidated by the thought of having to decide between conflicting principles, they did nothing, which had they effect of giving the keys to Postmarxist Wokists, who took over Culture. And politics is downstream from culture.
The same 60s Radicals who demanded Free Speech now demand total compliance with their Religion of No Name, or you'll be unpersoned. And they brought a huge chunk of Yuppiespawn with them to enforce their rules.
Moderate Liberals (again, broad sense of the term) made a choice to balk in the 60s and 70s and not to totally crush Postmarxist Insurgents due to conflict with Liberal Principles, and now are paying the price.
We've gone long past "problematic" figures being removed from history, to the total scapegoating of the greatest, most humane civilization in History, Western Civ.
95
MisdemeanorRebel
2021 Feb 8, 12:44am
MisdemeanorRebel
2021 Feb 8, 12:44am
mell says
Brilliant.
Matthew 24:9-11
Matthew 10:34-36
John 15:18
But you have to defend yourself from attackers / invaders. If you're proposing no Christian should ever raise a hand or weapon in self defense you're playing into those people's hands who want to abolish Christianity from the earth and install leftoid dystopias. Christians as all other religions used to defend themselves and even conquer as a result throughout history. There's nothing wrong with it. If you want to take the pain and fall for somebody by offering your other cheek to actually save them, fine, but letting everyone you love die or being pushed into a worse situation is not Christian. Keep in mind that translations also changed over centuries. I have no problems with a Christian army. Christianity with all of its faults and trials and tribulations and its dark ages overall has done much more good for humanity then most if not all other religions and atheists.
Brilliant.
Matthew 24:9-11
Matthew 10:34-36
John 15:18
96
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 8, 3:34pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Feb 8, 3:34pm
richwicks says
My friends are the Patrick Henry’s, the Martin Luther’s, the men and women who stood for truth and liberty even risking their lives, careers and safety to do so. Those are my friends. Who are yours?
You know who your friends REALLY are?
My friends are the Patrick Henry’s, the Martin Luther’s, the men and women who stood for truth and liberty even risking their lives, careers and safety to do so. Those are my friends. Who are yours?
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Sure, there are fawning fellating articles that go on and on about how generous billionaires are when funding programs that divide us further so we can't unify against them, but nowhere ever in the press will you find an article which flat-out states the truth that the billionaires are the problem, and in no way the solution.
This is why the news is nothing but deliberate divisiveness. It would be fun to catch the billionaires pulling the strings of the media, telling the nominal "editors" that divisive stories get top billing every night. Their slimy trail can't be that well hidden because it's all day every day in all the mainstream media.
And Americans in particular do not want to hear the nasty fact that wealth at that level is in no way a good thing for the country or for 99.9998% of its residents (literally). The American national religion worships billionaires as examples of what we should all want to be. Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. Fuck the little people. "Taxes are for the little people." The US tax system is nuts. Why are capital gains taxed at a lower rate than income from actual work?
Who wants to hear about the lifestyles of the two hundred million people between the coasts impoverished by Bezos, who has pretty much wiped out US retail and US manufacturing by selling us all cheap shit from China? Or about how the 5 billionaires of the Walton family killed Main Street with Walmart, also selling cheap shit from China? Or about how Bill Gates set the computer industry back decades by selectively murdering the competition by giving away their products until they died? Or how Larry and Sergei at Google and Mark at Facebook wiped out all real journalism by wiping out the ads that supported it, and now manipulate our elections, spy on us, and sell that data to the highest bidder, or to the government. Those stories are not as much fun as hagiographies. They do not get printed.
Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett collectively have more wealth than the bottom 160 million Americans.
Three people.
Three.
They are all Democrats.
Behind every billionaire is a long trail of bodies, ruined small businesses, ruined lives, and extreme political corruption. It was not "hard work". Nobody ever did enough work to earn a billion dollars themselves.
It would be so fucking justified to limit maximum wealth per person to one billion dollars, and the economy would surge as smaller competitors would finally have a chance. All of us would be far better off, except for the 800 US billionaires.
And don't bother calling me a communist. I'm all for getting rich, rich enough to retire nicely, but a billion? "Behind every great fortune is an equally great crime."
Billionaires made an extra $600 billion or so from the pandemic by wiping out small businesses.
Here's my tax plan:
0% wealth tax on wealth less than $100M.
10% wealth tax annually on wealth between $100M and $200M
20% wealth tax annually on wealth between $200M and $300M
....
100% wealth tax annually on wealth over $1B
This tax plan would affect only the 5,000 Americans with assets of more than $100M.
So there would be a limit on how rich you can get in America: one billion dollars in assets. After that level, billionaires stop hogging everything and let others have a chance too. Does anyone really need more than a billion? Why? Certainly nobody ever earned that much money through their own efforts. At that level, it's all monopolies preventing the free market from working. If you like free markets, you can't like billionaires. They are opposites.
The biggest bonus: if we keep the limit at one billion dollars, the rich will have a huge incentive to keep inflation at zero. So the saving of the rest of us would be preserved against confiscation by the Fed's printing press.