patrick.net

I think only a guy in Africa could confuse the logos.
Apple users aren’t morons.
Apple shareholders sure aren’t.
I think I saw a pineapple on a laptop in some cartoon.
“Apple products aren’t expensive, they just cost more than some people can afford” 🤑

I'm not a super techie. That said, Apple just works from my experience. Not that it's better, it just works for the average user. I've had 4 MacBooks, iMacs, mac minis and haven't had one single issue on any of them. I've dropped an older iPhone in the toilet and it worked another 2 years (older model ~2009ish). I can troubleshoot well enough, but no $300 Geeksquad visits that the average PC user has to do annually.

I've spent more time fixing in laws PC's than wiping my own ass over the last decade. Not that you can't create great machines outside of Apple, you can. You're just using the largest platform, windows in most cases, that is the most targeted, hackable OS on the planet. Also not user friendly. It's still set up like you're sitting behind a desk at Microsoft corp or something after just creating it. It's smart but dumb if that makes sense.

All this said, my best techie friend all use non-apple products and shit on it any chance they get. Which is fine. Apple has a role and they've found their market making products that work for people that will fuck them up most likely. Which is probably 90% of the market.

The OP is a riff on Elitist Apple propaganda they started way back in 2010, that Apple users were smarter than Android users.

But that can't be true, if they quibble over the contours of fruit.

I have used DOS, Windows 3, then XP, then 7 or something. I had macs so also Mac os.
XP was almost exactly like Apple 9, so I didn’t have difficulty.
I would put Linux on the XP machine and it would run much better.
Apple OS 10 was UNIX, and robust. It’s become more robust.
My favorite phone os is Android however. I believe Android is derived from Linux somehow, I might be wrong.
I really like my Google Pixel phone, I am not buying an iPhone in the future.

clambo says

I believe Android is derived from Linux somehow, I might be wrong.

It is, it's Linux with some additional modifications to the kernel and removal of key libraries that makes it a true Linux machine.

You can install modules on a Linux box that allows you to run Android apps, however, I don't trust Google with any data, so I will not install those modules to make a seamless Unix/Android interface. They cannot be trusted as a corporation at this point. They dropped their motto of "Don't Be Evil" for a reason. They are evil.

richwicks says

clambo says
I believe Android is derived from Linux somehow, I might be wrong.

It is, it's Linux with some additional modifications to the kernel and removal of key libraries that makes it a true Linux machine.

You can install modules on a Linux box that allows you to run Android apps, however, I don't trust Google with any data, so I will not install those modules to make a seamless Unix/Android interface. They cannot be trusted as a corporation at this point. They dropped their motto of "Don't Be Evil" for a reason. They are evil.

clambo says

I really like my Google Pixel phone, I am not buying an iPhone in the future.

I'm going to a linux phone in about a year. Currently the state of development is atrocious and not usable for anybody other than an engineer but I've seen rapid improvement in support on multiple platforms. It's getting to the point that if you want any semblance of privacy, you are FORCED to move to linux.

WookieMan says

All this said, my best techie friend all use non-apple products and shit on it any chance they get. Which is fine. Apple has a role and they've found their market making products that work for people that will fuck them up most likely. Which is probably 90% of the market.

Let me give you a simple example of a problem I cannot solve with an iPhone.

I'm at work, and I have a tedious document to read that is on my computer, it's confidential and marked sensitive. How do I place that file on my phone so I can go over it in the dead of night in bed reading the contents? How do I put that on my iPad?

The answer is by jumping through a tremendous amounts of hoops. It's possible, but when I plug in my android phone to my computer, it's a disk drive. I just copy the file over. It's that simple.

This idea that "Apple just works" is because you're limited to what you want your machine to do. My phone, with a $20 SD card can contain more information in book form than I can read over a lifetime, but I can't use something as basic as a PHONE to read it unless I do backflips. I commonly have confidential files on my phone for review or specs or whatever.

As a machine sending out information, it's interminable. I send email from my phone when I have NOTHING ELSE to use, a computer is always preferable. People that "do their job" on a phone, don't have real jobs.

richwicks says

How do I place that file on my phone so I can go over it in the dead of night in bed reading the contents? How do I put that on my iPad?

The answer is by jumping through a tremendous amounts of hoops. It's possible, but when I plug in my android phone to my computer, it's a disk drive. I just copy the file over. It's that simple

Same here. I have an apk file I load onto cab driver's 8in Android tablets that acts as a terminal for dispatching jobs, GPS tracking, and so on. This apk is not for the general public and I do not want it in any "app store." With Android, I can connect to a PC with a usb cable and transfer the apk to the Android's download folder and install from there. Not possible with Apple.

richwicks says

This idea that "Apple just works" is because you're limited to what you want your machine to do. My phone, with a $20 SD card can contain more information in book form than I can read over a lifetime, but I can't use something as basic as a PHONE to read it unless I do backflips. I commonly have confidential files on my phone for review or specs or whatever.

That's true. But like I said, for 90% of the average users, the iPhone does everything they need. The vast majority of people are doing nothing technical on their phones, even if it's something as simple as you state. It's the most popular phone. Not saying it's the best. But for the masses, it does what they need. I'd guess 20-30% of people who purchase other phones/devices is simply they dislike Apple and never have used it. Which is fine. I won't lose sleep at night. Overall though it's a good product built for the average person.

I'm not going to get into an Apple pissing match. If you don't like it, fine by me. If you like it, I don't really care either. The phones and computers just work for what most people need daily. No need for anti-virus bull shit. Integrated eco-system for movies, music, files, etc. The iMac I'm typing on now hasn't been turned off is 5 years (backup battery for power outages). No need to restart because it's fucked up. 15 years deep in Mac and literally haven't had one issue in all that time. iPad screens are the biggest weakness I deal with. But that's likely because I have two pre-teen boys.

Beating a dead horse:
I can say the the phone hardware of iPhone is very solid, as is the os.
My pixel phone is pretty good, but a lot of the Android phones are chintzy.
I still use an iPhone 5 for my Mexico phone when I travel.

I think both platforms are pretty good nowadays. Apple is definitely better for people who don’t need a lot of tech stuff and just want to integrate their lives with seamless ease. Apple is freaking great for that! The AI anticipates what you’ll want when you’ll want it. If you think about it, the iPhone has replaced so many different helpful technologies from cameras and video recorders to calendars and maps, with a replacement for hard copy books, video playback, movie rentals, radio, streaming podcasts, calculator, flashlight, banking, credit card replacement, web browsing, as well as texts, phone calls, and other communications activities. There’s hundreds of things your iPhone can do. If you have your iPhone, your personal power to do things is increased tremendously.
So what’s the big deal with not being able to do a few techie things? I have been frustrated working with documents on my iPhone, but there’s usually a workaround if you download the right app.
One thing I can’t do is pirate videos and audiobooks to my phone, but honestly I don’t need that.

I’m sure that android users have more options and that’s cool. There SHOULD be options of different things for different people with different needs.

Switched to Samsung a couple years ago when I noticed all the apps I was using had nothing to do with Apple, have never been happier. Still have same phone, same battery life, no annoying itunes, 1/4 the cost.

Many iPhone users I've known over the years, has switched over to Android, and they are happy.
They say everything about it is easier, and they have more control, and access.

WookieMan says

That's true. But like I said, for 90% of the average users, the iPhone does everything they need. The vast majority of people are doing nothing technical on their phones, even if it's something as simple as you state. It's the most popular phone. Not saying it's the best. But for the masses, it does what they need.

I need to take a collection of mp3's from an SD card and place it on my iPhone so I can listen to a bunch of technical audio courses. How do I do that?

The reason that the iPhone is "good enough" for "90% of people" is that they don't know what you CAN do on a standard phone. To me, the iPhone is just missing a ton of basic functionality, and it costs more.

I have this collection of radio shows:

https://archive.org/details/MindWebs_201410

I downloaded it like 2 years ago. I gave a copy to my coworker that is as familiar with the old stories as I am so he could listen to it on his drive home. He placed it on a USB stick and just plugged it into his dashboard to listen to. Try to move an audio file OFF an iPhone. I downloaded it with my computer, and placed it on my phone so I wouldn't use bandwidth and could use a larger selection of audio players. Try to do that with an Apple and an iPhone.

No to beleaguer this issue, but I just look at Apple as a bunch of assholes that keep breaking existing shit. You can't even do a fucking file transfer on iOS - and that's fucking UNIX - everything is a file under Unix. Even your audio device is treated as a file - it's a pipe. People don't transfer files on their phone to other phones? You know why they don't? It's because they CAN'T. You're accepting lower functionality at a higher cost, because you've been told it's "better". To me, it's going from something that actually does work to something that doesn't "just work". Apple only "just works" if you give up a bunch of things you want to do, or are content to be stuck doing only a very small subset of things.

You just import it. I'm confused. You can import any MP3 file onto an iPhone. Almost 80% of my audio/music library is from my CD's growing up and as a young adult. Even ripped some vinyl into my library. Apple recognizes the file and grabs the album graphic and info. Sure you have to deal with iTunes on a PC or Mac, but don't most phones rely on a desktop interface or cloud to get data on your phone? Either way, it's a trivial process that takes minutes.

richwicks says

Let me give you a simple example of a problem I cannot solve with an iPhone.

I'm at work, and I have a tedious document to read that is on my computer, it's confidential and marked sensitive. How do I place that file on my phone so I can go over it in the dead of night in bed reading the contents? How do I put that on my iPad?

The answer is by jumping through a tremendous amounts of hoops. It's possible, but when I plug in my android phone to my computer, it's a disk drive. I just copy the file over. It's that simple.

Screen sharing app and access the PC or Mac directly. Sure you might have to pay for an app, but it's nominal. With 2-3 taps and a password you're accessing your computer directly. Hardly hoops. There's only like a 5% chance (probably less) that you won't have cell or wifi access to reach it remotely. Also, if it's a pretty standard document, they can all be transferred over through the app. I did this personally for close to a decade at my previous real estate work. As the saying used to go, there's an app for that. I've grabbed files off my mac driving to Nashville and got the task done in under 10 min, again while driving.

I can access every Mac in my house in a minute. This obviously can be done with PC as well. Assuming a buried cable doesn't snap, I have back up batteries on my modem, wifi and computers in case of a power outage. My phone is for calls, emails, texting and horsing around. I would never want to rely on it. It's number 2 or 3 down the chain. Important for sure, but it cannot handle what I've done in the past and present. You need a PC or any desktop if you want to truly be productive. iPhone, Samsung, etc. cannot replace real computers.

We just got a new Xbox for my kid. Microsoft. A complete and utter shit show setting it up. I get the techie/coding types are drawn to that, but Apple just works without having to get all techie. I can when needed, but why? I like the ecosystem and can put my info in and set up a new device in minutes. I can be sitting at my TV and access my photo library and show family and friends photos from a trip we just went on. It's super easy.

I don't know, why over complicate something that is simple. I've had none of the issues others have listed with Apple. It hasn't failed me yet. No fan boy here. Don't own stock or anything. But it is just a product that works.

WookieMan says

We just got a new Xbox for my kid. Microsoft. A complete and utter shit show setting it up.

You plug in the cord to the wall, you plug in the HDMI to the television, and if you want WIFI, you hit the WPS button on your router and your xbox. How can you make this simpler?

WookieMan says

I don't know, why over complicate something that is simple

Precisely. Why do I have to buy a 3rd party project, to get what was innately in Unix 30 years ago? Why do I need to get a 3rd party app, to store data on my wifi phone that can run an SFTP server on it? That's been around since 1995 - this is also an innate part of Unix now.

I mount my disk drive at home, from work through SSHFS - is that even possible to do a remote mount through the Internet? That's been around since 2005.

Apple just took BSD, stripped out a TON of useful features, put a bunch of proprietary bullshit on it, and made a very expensive paperweight.

There's NOTHING I can't do on a Linux/Android device that I can do on a Mac/iPhone device, the reverse is not true. That's my point.

WookieMan says

I'm not going to get into an Apple pissing match.

richwicks says

There's NOTHING I can't do on a Linux/Android device that I can do on a Mac/iPhone device, the reverse is not true. That's my point.

Never made that claim. 98% of people don't need to use a phone the way you do. It's not a big deal. You use equipment that works for you. I never said you shouldn't.

WookieMan says

Never made that claim. 98% of people don't need to use a phone the way you do

Again, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You wouldn't even THINK to move an MP3 file, or a data file to a phone, if you didn't believe it was possible.

That is your typical Apple user. They see something that they've never seen before, and think Apple just invented this new cool idea, that's been around for 30 years. Why would you even think to use a keyfob, when you have a phone that acts as one yet I see all these Apple users at work, using keyfobs to move data around.

It's just backward is all. That's what I'm pointing out. What is the logistical reason to prevent an iPhone from acting as a general storage device? Why would you remove that functionality from BSD? Any, technical, reason to impose this limitation?

Apple is just Unix with all the nice tools that have been around for 30+ years, removed them. When I can't do something on my $1,000 iPhone, but I can on my $150 MotoX, guess what I would feel? Ripped off. Guess what I think when somebody insinuates they are smarter and more technically literate than I am because they use a $1,000 phone when mine is $150? I think they are a walking example of the Peter principle.

People say "Well Apple just works" - so does an Android piece of junk. So does a rasbperry pi. So does a linux machine. I've been running the same hardware at work for 9 years now, with one OS update. Think that doesn't "just work"? It doesn't just work, it's got more options than anything else does. I've used Unix for 30 years, and there's still stuff I find on it that surprises me. Do you know email is still built into the system? Gopher still works. Ytalk still functions.

richwicks says

It doesn't just work, it's got more options than anything else does.

Average users don't need more options. Not sure how much clearer I can he about my point. Most people don't even know how to change a car tire. Just because you give additional functionality, doesn't mean they'll use it or know how to. The market has spoken in all honesty. Not going to change your mind and I've said I have no interest in getting a debate over this. You're talking about getting from point A to B and you're pointing out if a bike or scooter gets you there. They both do.

WookieMan says

Average users don't need more options. Not sure how much clearer I can he about my point.

Do "average users" pay a premium for fewer options?

Yes, they do. They are OPTIONS, you're not forced to use them, but without these "options" I have a paperweight. What is the ENGINEERING rationale in removing options that have been used for 30 years and have been tested for that length of time? These aren't experimental components to an operating system at this point - so why the FUCK would they be removed?

WookieMan says

Just because you give additional functionality, doesn't mean they'll use it or know how to.

I agree, but why are options removed at all?

This is my fundamental complaint about Apple. It's really my complaint about Windows too. Standard, well tested protocols and tools that have been around FOREVER are just removed from the operating systems, for no engineering reason at all. It's marketing. They can sell the same fucking product again, 20 years later, by just INCLUDING a fundamental piece of functionality that's been around for 30.

Microsoft made a ton of money NOT by making the best OS in the world, but by making one of the worst, and getting IBM to market it for them. Microsoft then made MINOR improvements year after year, so that when the OS became available, people were DESPERATE to get it, because it was certainly better.

Apple flamed out. So did Amiga. The BBC Acorn did as well. Those machines, were all 10 years ahead of Microsoft. As a result of this lesson, we have slowly drawn out progress by intentionally holding back functionality for years. That's Apple's business model. Can't wait until they "invent" file transfers between a computer and their phone.

I want to say around 2002 or 2003, I downloaded itunes for the first time. Then, I went in for a conference with my boss and he was like, your Limewire music came up on my itunes. Right then, I saw it was sniffing through the network and I didn't like it. I immediately uninstalled it and went back to the original winamp. Still to this day, I run winamp on my PC for my mp3s. What I can't figure out it that all my friends spent all kinds of time downloading crap on Napster, limewire, and eventually bittorrent...and fast forward to today, they've purchased all the same music from apple. I still have the same mp3 collection from the day napster came online. I guess I'm frozen in time.

theoakman says

I still have the same mp3 collection from the day napster came online.

Mp3s were something I realized aren't worth collecting. Every single song or album is easily found everywhere on the internet no matter how obscure. The music industry basically considers music that is older than a year to be absolutely worthless unless it's for rights to play in some film or television show.

The size of an album is so tiny (funny to think that now?) that it cannot be controlled I suspect. For example:

https://tinyurl.com/y7pdjdg7

Nobody cares any more, not even the artists.

I've noticed that a lot of people who comment about how expensive Iphone are then go ahead and buy an overpriced Samsung phone. Like $600-$750. What's the point of doing that?

I think a lot of people use Apple phones because they are easier for them to use. They probably aren't easier for any of US to use, I'm referring to most people (I.E.- stupid people).
there is a value to dumbing it down for the masses.

That and as far as I can tell, the phones do work better. The GF has one and is on the same plan with me and even in the same room the sound quality, connection, etc just plain works better then my much cheaper Mororola phone. Not that matters to me since I hardly ever use it for talking. Either that or I just need to make sure that my next phone has HD voice. Didn't know about that when I bought my phone, or maybe it only does it when doing wifi phone calls. I am not sure.

zzyzzx says

I've noticed that a lot of people who comment about how expensive Iphone are then go ahead and buy an overpriced Samsung phone. Like $600-$750. What's the point of doing that?

Savy people buy a generational or two old Samsung for nothing. Andriod/battery life, etc. all work great. Quality better than iPhones. It's like a Windows PC bought wiped from Dell, it'll work for a decade.

If you buy a generation or two old Apple, it becomes an instant paperweight because Apple nerfs all of its old phones with "updates".

I bought my Samsung S7 for $250 3 years ago and that thing has been workhorse.

Dholliday126 says

zzyzzx says

I've noticed that a lot of people who comment about how expensive Iphone are then go ahead and buy an overpriced Samsung phone. Like $600-$750. What's the point of doing that?

Savy people buy a generational or two old Samsung for nothing. Andriod/battery life, etc. all work great. Quality better than iPhones. It's like a Windows PC bought wiped from Dell, it'll work for a decade.

If you buy a generation or two old Apple, it becomes an instant paperweight because Apple nerfs all of its old phones with "updates".

I bought my Samsung S7 for $250 3 years ago and that thing has been workhorse.

I think Samsung is fine. Who really cares? Most people text, call, email and do social media on their phone. That's all they do. Apple does that. So does Samsung. As with most debates we get dragged into the fringes/minority. 90-95% of users of Samsung or Apple products don't need advanced features. I don't care if Apple is top dog in the phone industry, but the market has spoken by demand. People can dislike that because they need a functionality that almost no else needs, but Apple is top dog. It's not a big deal for almost anyone.

Anyway, who really cares if what you have works for you? Why I said no need to get in a pissing match. My iPhone works better for me than a Samsung would. That has zilch to do with another brand that would completely fuck me up for probably dozens of hours to get adapted to that ecosystem. For what $200 every 3-4 years? We're talking about $5/mo. over the life of a phone between Samsung and Apple. It's negligible unless you're broke. Enjoy your phone and move on.

It wasn't the money, it was the fact that Apple created a paperweight after a couple years for like a decade. I have so many paperweight Apple products around my house, it's like a stack of books.

iPhone users are literally taking it up the ass from Apple

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/breaking-directions-dc-advance-massive-trump-stop-steal-rally-suddenly-not-available-apple-maps/

Tenpoundbass says

iPhone users are literally taking it up the ass from Apple

Eh, if I'm going to a new area I haven't been, I'll usually print the directions on paper before leaving or at least have a detailed print out of the area. Especially if I'm flying into the area. Remember too that most rental cars will have mapping functions, unless you're getting a super shitty eco sized car.

If you're within driving distance (4 hours or less), it's highly probably you've been to DC and have some idea of where everything is if you have visited as an adult. It's an easy layout to remember once you've looked at it on a map if you have to park and walk.

You'll also likely have to park outside DC and Uber/Cab it in if there will be a ton of people.

Either way, just checked Apple Maps and it gets me directions. So not sure if that article was in error or what. If someone cannot figure out how to get somewhere without a phone, might have some other issues too.

Dholliday126 says

It wasn't the money, it was the fact that Apple created a paperweight after a couple years for like a decade. I have so many paperweight Apple products around my house, it's like a stack of books.

It seems Apple's obsolescence strategy is a win, since it caused you to be a repeat customer.