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Covid Killed His Father. Then Came $1 Million in Medical Bills.
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2021 May 25, 1:51pm 634 views 8 comments
Comments 1 - 8 of 8 Search these comments
1
Hircus
2021 May 25, 2:34pm
Hircus
2021 May 25, 2:34pm
farmer2021 says
I'm not surprised.
Many insurance policies have upper limits that aren't very high. And, of course, the way hospitals work, you don't always get to know this stuff - payment, and prices, are not available beforehand to customers - that's something they "work out" and "negotiate" later, which does a great job of putting a legal bear trap on your leg.
Bullshit ass system.
I don't understand How this is happening?
Isn't everything covered after your "yearly maximum"?
I'm not surprised.
Many insurance policies have upper limits that aren't very high. And, of course, the way hospitals work, you don't always get to know this stuff - payment, and prices, are not available beforehand to customers - that's something they "work out" and "negotiate" later, which does a great job of putting a legal bear trap on your leg.
Bullshit ass system.
2
TechBrosWon
2021 May 25, 2:45pm
TechBrosWon
2021 May 25, 2:45pm
Hircus says
There is cardiologist son who is fighting 100s k bill.. How does this happen if it crosses "yearly maximum"?
This is bit concerning.
farmer2021 saysI don't understand How this is happening?
Isn't everything covered after your "yearly maximum"?
I'm not surprised.
Many insurance policies have upper limits that aren't very high. And, of course, the way hospitals work, you don't always get to know this stuff - payment, and prices, are not available beforehand to customers - that's something they "work out" and "negotiate" later, which does a great job of putting a legal bear trap on your leg.
Bullshit ass system.
There is cardiologist son who is fighting 100s k bill.. How does this happen if it crosses "yearly maximum"?
This is bit concerning.
3
Shaman
2021 May 25, 3:07pm
Shaman
2021 May 25, 3:07pm
Why is the son responsible for the debt of his father? That’s not supposed to happen in the USA.
4
Zak
2021 May 25, 3:13pm
Shaman says
He's not. The wife/mother may be with regards to community property, but the son is off the hook. It's just that his inheritance will be eaten away by the medical bills if the estate is not protected in a trust. Even then, I'm not an estate lawyer, and I don't know what level of liability an estate in trust of a person incurs against any of their liabilities in the event of end of life bills.
This is just an un-nuanced (or intentionally biased) story designed to make you think we need socialized medicine... aka propaganda :)
Why is the son responsible for the debt of his father? That’s not supposed to happen in the USA.
He's not. The wife/mother may be with regards to community property, but the son is off the hook. It's just that his inheritance will be eaten away by the medical bills if the estate is not protected in a trust. Even then, I'm not an estate lawyer, and I don't know what level of liability an estate in trust of a person incurs against any of their liabilities in the event of end of life bills.
This is just an un-nuanced (or intentionally biased) story designed to make you think we need socialized medicine... aka propaganda :)
5
TechBrosWon
2021 May 25, 3:23pm
TechBrosWon
2021 May 25, 3:23pm
Zak says
Why would his estate of family have to pay more than "yearly maximum"?
Was cardiologist uninsured or under insured?
I heard that their are no lifetime maximum after Obama Care.
Story definitely is fishy.
Shaman saysWhy is the son responsible for the debt of his father? That’s not supposed to happen in the USA.
He's not. The wife/mother may be with regards to community property, but the son is off the hook. It's just that his inheritance will be eaten away by the medical bills if the estate is not protected in a trust. Even then, I'm not an estate lawyer, and I don't know what level of liability an estate in trust of a person incurs against any of their liabilities in the event of end of life bills.
This is just an un-nuanced (or intentionally biased) story designed to make you think we need socialized medicine... aka propaganda :)
Why would his estate of family have to pay more than "yearly maximum"?
Was cardiologist uninsured or under insured?
I heard that their are no lifetime maximum after Obama Care.
Story definitely is fishy.
6
WookieMan
2021 May 25, 3:36pm
WookieMan
2021 May 25, 3:36pm
Hircus says
Just don't pay. Not too complicated. There's not much they can do beside report it to credit agencies and have a debt collector call you 10x's a day. Just don't answer unknown numbers and NEVER say your name or reply that "yes, this is John Doe." Alway ask why they want your name if you answer on accident.
I saw the game in action during the housing bust with short sales. In all honesty we kind of gave some shady, but not illegal advice to clients. Either way, the debt collector likely paid the actual value of the medical bills. So if they can't corner you, they're out the money. It's expensive to garnish wages and easy to fight if you have the will to do so and if it gets to that level.
I'd venture to guess 20-30% of the population is scamming creditors their whole lives. It's easy to get credit dings removed too. Creditors don't have the manpower to follow up with invalid claims even if they're accurate.
Many insurance policies have upper limits that aren't very high. And, of course, the way hospitals work, you don't always get to know this stuff - payment, and prices, are not available beforehand to customers - that's something they "work out" and "negotiate" later, which does a great job of putting a legal bear trap on your leg.
Just don't pay. Not too complicated. There's not much they can do beside report it to credit agencies and have a debt collector call you 10x's a day. Just don't answer unknown numbers and NEVER say your name or reply that "yes, this is John Doe." Alway ask why they want your name if you answer on accident.
I saw the game in action during the housing bust with short sales. In all honesty we kind of gave some shady, but not illegal advice to clients. Either way, the debt collector likely paid the actual value of the medical bills. So if they can't corner you, they're out the money. It's expensive to garnish wages and easy to fight if you have the will to do so and if it gets to that level.
I'd venture to guess 20-30% of the population is scamming creditors their whole lives. It's easy to get credit dings removed too. Creditors don't have the manpower to follow up with invalid claims even if they're accurate.
7
Patrick
2021 May 25, 3:44pm
Patrick
2021 May 25, 3:44pm
Hircus says
This bullshit system is perhaps the clearest example of corruption in the US.
Congressmen are paid bribes (called "donations") by the AMA, the hospital lobbyists, and pharmaceutical lobbyists to make laws in the opposite interest of the public, for the profit of those industries.
This is a good argument for publicly funded Congressional campaigns - so that Congressmen are not forced to take bribes to get in or stay in office.
And, of course, the way hospitals work, you don't always get to know this stuff - payment, and prices, are not available beforehand to customers - that's something they "work out" and "negotiate" later, which does a great job of putting a legal bear trap on your leg.
Bullshit ass system.
This bullshit system is perhaps the clearest example of corruption in the US.
Congressmen are paid bribes (called "donations") by the AMA, the hospital lobbyists, and pharmaceutical lobbyists to make laws in the opposite interest of the public, for the profit of those industries.
This is a good argument for publicly funded Congressional campaigns - so that Congressmen are not forced to take bribes to get in or stay in office.
8
Zak
2021 May 26, 12:25am
I've discussed this before, but the root of the problem is the personal income tax.
Since actual wages paid increase the taxable portion taken out of an employee paycheck, employers found ways to pay employees while skipping 30% of the cost of the raise by giving them pre-tax wages. This is in the form of insurance, cafeteria plans, 401k, etc.
In order to skip the income tax, employer healthcare plans have to remain in place. Since a bunch of HR people are in charge of picking the health plan, they only need to do a middling fair job for most of the employees, in a few prepackaged sizes. They run as much as possible of the healthcare expense thru the plan so that employee expenses can be pre-tax.. This means your regular checkups, urgent care visits when you get a cold or break a bone or need stitches, minor maladies, and other low cost operations all run through your health plan. You accept and don't attempt to shop because you just pay a $20 co-pay and let insurance and billing run up the overhead on your care even further. You are a sheep in the shepherded flock. But for the most part, it's still a better deal than getting paid the 5-15k extra and eating 30% + in income tax. And its especially a better deal for your employer.
Now the true part of the scam is this: health insurance companies are regulated to have a maximum profit margin. So in order for an insurance company to make more money , they actually have to ensure that prices are HIGH!!!!!! If they collect premiums and don't spend 95% of them on care, they have to return that money, AND a portion of what would otherwise be their profits!! This is why healthcare increases are running 10% plus per year.
Simple solution: abolish the income tax. People get their wages and spend them the way they want to. If the insurance price is high, they shop for better insurance.
As a side note, there is a HUGE benefit to this current stupidity. I had to get a foot xray a while ago. I literally signed my name at an outpatient facility and walked(crutches) into the x-ray room within 5 minutes. Super expensive machine sitting idle and ready to go. I had a surgery scheduled within 2 days. I saw the bill, it was $14,000 . I paid like $1500.
They don't want to kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs, or even ruffle its feathers.
Since actual wages paid increase the taxable portion taken out of an employee paycheck, employers found ways to pay employees while skipping 30% of the cost of the raise by giving them pre-tax wages. This is in the form of insurance, cafeteria plans, 401k, etc.
In order to skip the income tax, employer healthcare plans have to remain in place. Since a bunch of HR people are in charge of picking the health plan, they only need to do a middling fair job for most of the employees, in a few prepackaged sizes. They run as much as possible of the healthcare expense thru the plan so that employee expenses can be pre-tax.. This means your regular checkups, urgent care visits when you get a cold or break a bone or need stitches, minor maladies, and other low cost operations all run through your health plan. You accept and don't attempt to shop because you just pay a $20 co-pay and let insurance and billing run up the overhead on your care even further. You are a sheep in the shepherded flock. But for the most part, it's still a better deal than getting paid the 5-15k extra and eating 30% + in income tax. And its especially a better deal for your employer.
Now the true part of the scam is this: health insurance companies are regulated to have a maximum profit margin. So in order for an insurance company to make more money , they actually have to ensure that prices are HIGH!!!!!! If they collect premiums and don't spend 95% of them on care, they have to return that money, AND a portion of what would otherwise be their profits!! This is why healthcare increases are running 10% plus per year.
Simple solution: abolish the income tax. People get their wages and spend them the way they want to. If the insurance price is high, they shop for better insurance.
As a side note, there is a HUGE benefit to this current stupidity. I had to get a foot xray a while ago. I literally signed my name at an outpatient facility and walked(crutches) into the x-ray room within 5 minutes. Super expensive machine sitting idle and ready to go. I had a surgery scheduled within 2 days. I saw the bill, it was $14,000 . I paid like $1500.
They don't want to kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs, or even ruffle its feathers.
Isn't everything covered after your "yearly maximum"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/upshot/covid-bills-financial-long-haulers.html
Insurers and Congress wrote rules to protect coronavirus patients, but the bills came anyway, leaving some mired in debt.