Alternative to bitcoin that even bitcoin haters could like
invite response
2021 May 25, 6:08pm 2,868 views 36 comments
by Zak ➕follow (0) 💰tip ignore
Everyone who sees bitcoin as a giant pyramid scheme, I have an alternative. Gold Coin! No, I'm not just being funny, I don't mean just a plain old gold coin. (That is funny and true tho). I basically mean a digitally transferrable ownership of a physical gold (or silver, platinum, etc) coin. The physical can be stored, audited, insured, and accessed with a proper digitally signed token. Tokens can be exchanged across borders instantly. There would be a transaction fee, and potentially a storage fee. The crypto currency could provide verification that the storage facility is insured. Each coin could be wrapped in an envelope with a key that could confirm digital ownership by the token. By having a wide variety of storage facilities storing your gold or silver, you could de-risk your exposure to total loss in a single facility.
« First « Previous Comments 14 - 36 of 36 Search these comments
14
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 2:02pm
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 2:02pm
theoakman says
You can't have it both ways. Volatility means it is not a good store of value. If I bought a bitcoin for $60k I would not be able to get my $60k back, at least not right away.
Remember, the miners consume the capital input. There is no store of value.
Be honest, you bought some crypto for the same reason I occasionally play the lotto. It's gambling.
The market has clearly opted to Bitcoin as a store of value over the past 5 years, volatility aside.
You can't have it both ways. Volatility means it is not a good store of value. If I bought a bitcoin for $60k I would not be able to get my $60k back, at least not right away.
Remember, the miners consume the capital input. There is no store of value.
Be honest, you bought some crypto for the same reason I occasionally play the lotto. It's gambling.
15
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 2:09pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 2:09pm
theoakman says
Mostly true, but take a look at Weimer Germany, or Venezuela today, things can get pretty nasty. And the bigger the bubble, the nastier the collapse. How big is the US debt bubble? Unprecedented, and this is directly from the mouths of central bankers themselves. So no need for beta's, just look around, or study history.
And for the(hopefully) few months when trade and transport grinds to a halt, you'll need more than digital 1's and 0's to trade for necessities.
Currency collapses don't devolve into mad max. It just wipes people's debts and savings and is a reset button to the economy. But third world countries will see their currencies collapse first, so they'll be the beta.
Mostly true, but take a look at Weimer Germany, or Venezuela today, things can get pretty nasty. And the bigger the bubble, the nastier the collapse. How big is the US debt bubble? Unprecedented, and this is directly from the mouths of central bankers themselves. So no need for beta's, just look around, or study history.
And for the(hopefully) few months when trade and transport grinds to a halt, you'll need more than digital 1's and 0's to trade for necessities.
17
Patrick
2021 May 26, 5:25pm
Patrick
2021 May 26, 5:25pm
Stocks usually compensate for inflation.
The hazard there is that the Fed will raise interest rates to counter inflation, and higher rates are bad for stocks as people move to bonds for those higher rates.
But the stocks are at least backed by a real thing: a business which is supposed to produce profits. After interest rates go back down, they should go back up about in proportion.
The hazard there is that the Fed will raise interest rates to counter inflation, and higher rates are bad for stocks as people move to bonds for those higher rates.
But the stocks are at least backed by a real thing: a business which is supposed to produce profits. After interest rates go back down, they should go back up about in proportion.
18
theoakman
2021 May 26, 6:51pm
NuttBoxer says
I have much more than bitcoin/ethereum. I own land, actively farm it. To put it in perspective, I have 30 fruit trees and 10 large raised bed gardens. I'm locked in at 2.5% on 250k remaining debt. I have solar on my home. I own gold. I own silver. I own dividend paying stocks. I own broad market ETFs. And I own foreign stock ETFs in modernized Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan. These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.
ble, the nastier the collapse. How big is the US debt bubble? Unprecedented, and this is directly from the mouths of central bankers themselves. So no need for beta's, just look around, or study history.
I have much more than bitcoin/ethereum. I own land, actively farm it. To put it in perspective, I have 30 fruit trees and 10 large raised bed gardens. I'm locked in at 2.5% on 250k remaining debt. I have solar on my home. I own gold. I own silver. I own dividend paying stocks. I own broad market ETFs. And I own foreign stock ETFs in modernized Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan. These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.
19
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 7:03pm
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 7:03pm
theoakman says
I hear ya, but I think the fruit trees are a better investment.
I never gambled more than a couple hundred at a time.
These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.
I hear ya, but I think the fruit trees are a better investment.
I never gambled more than a couple hundred at a time.
20
ThatGuy
2021 May 26, 7:17pm
Zak says
Sounds like https://kinesis.money/money/
Onvacation says
This is why I don't hold Kenisis, and I ever so slightly distrust my PSLV holdings
The physical can be stored, audited, insured, and accessed with a proper digitally signed token. Tokens can be exchanged across borders instantly. There would be a transaction fee, and potentially a storage fee. The crypto currency could provide verification that the storage facility is insured.
Sounds like https://kinesis.money/money/
Onvacation says
If you don't hold it you don't own it.
This is why I don't hold Kenisis, and I ever so slightly distrust my PSLV holdings
21
Tenpoundbass
2021 May 26, 8:31pm
Tenpoundbass
2021 May 26, 8:31pm
So here's a crazy question.
What if there's a run on the banks, there's hyper inflation, the dollar becomes worthless or for what ever reason, the money stops flowing?
What will digital currency be worth then? If you answered that question honestly, then you've assured yourself, they are nothing more than tokens in an video game, in hopes to convert them into real US dollars. You're playing an elaborate Coin Pusher.
What if there's a run on the banks, there's hyper inflation, the dollar becomes worthless or for what ever reason, the money stops flowing?
What will digital currency be worth then? If you answered that question honestly, then you've assured yourself, they are nothing more than tokens in an video game, in hopes to convert them into real US dollars. You're playing an elaborate Coin Pusher.
22
ThatGuy
2021 May 26, 8:39pm
Tenpoundbass says
Whatever value people place in it.
Its worthless garbage, really.
Everyone and their brother can mint a bajillion cryptocoins
Its worse than fiat in that regard...
If it gets shitty, can you eat it? or trade it for food?
I expect an epic dismissal of the dollar
Then crypto
and falling back to precious metals
I'm buying silver, only because I'm too poor to own gold
What will digital currency be worth
Whatever value people place in it.
Its worthless garbage, really.
Everyone and their brother can mint a bajillion cryptocoins
Its worse than fiat in that regard...
If it gets shitty, can you eat it? or trade it for food?
I expect an epic dismissal of the dollar
Then crypto
and falling back to precious metals
I'm buying silver, only because I'm too poor to own gold
23
Tenpoundbass
2021 May 26, 8:45pm
Tenpoundbass
2021 May 26, 8:45pm
To add to that, the Dollar fluctuates what it is worth based on the GDP. A digital coin value does not account for the dollar fluctuation.
So if a digital coin has a great run when the dollar is strong. Then when the Dollar gets weak and loses 25% to 50% of it's value. Coin Bulls say digital currency will go through the roof. I say it would also lose 50% of the total when all was factored in. People would be buying in, while the value would be in free fall.
So if a digital coin has a great run when the dollar is strong. Then when the Dollar gets weak and loses 25% to 50% of it's value. Coin Bulls say digital currency will go through the roof. I say it would also lose 50% of the total when all was factored in. People would be buying in, while the value would be in free fall.
24
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 26, 8:52pm
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 26, 8:52pm
ThatGuy says
I haven't even considered it because I've heard one can't get delivery. Or can they?
I'm buying silver, only because I'm too poor to own gold
I haven't even considered it because I've heard one can't get delivery. Or can they?
25
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 9:07pm
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 9:07pm
Check prices at
https://online.kitco.com/silver?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_content=submenu-buy-silver&utm_campaign=patrick.net
Then call local coin/gold/silver dealers and pawn shops. The shops price should be around kitcos. If significantly more; pass. If significantly less you MIGHT have a bargain.
If everybody bought silver instead of crypto they would truly have a store of value but silver can't be programmed or stored on a flashdrive.
https://online.kitco.com/silver?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_content=submenu-buy-silver&utm_campaign=patrick.net
Then call local coin/gold/silver dealers and pawn shops. The shops price should be around kitcos. If significantly more; pass. If significantly less you MIGHT have a bargain.
If everybody bought silver instead of crypto they would truly have a store of value but silver can't be programmed or stored on a flashdrive.
26
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 9:14pm
Onvacation
2021 May 26, 9:14pm
It looks like Kitco will sell you a 63 pound (thousand ounce) bar for $30,950 and send it to you right away.
https://online.kitco.com/buy/1008/1000-oz-Silver-Good-Delivery-List-Bar-999-1008
Smaller sizes carry higher premiums.
https://online.kitco.com/buy/1008/1000-oz-Silver-Good-Delivery-List-Bar-999-1008
Smaller sizes carry higher premiums.
27
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 26, 9:18pm
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 26, 9:18pm
I'd probably get the silver eagles. Bars are hard to spend during cannibal anarchy but doable.
30
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 10:18pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 10:18pm
theoakman says
You left out an important piece, do you own guns? And how far are you from the nearest city?
I have much more than bitcoin/ethereum. I own land, actively farm it. To put it in perspective, I have 30 fruit trees and 10 large raised bed gardens. I'm locked in at 2.5% on 250k remaining debt. I have solar on my home. I own gold. I own silver. I own dividend paying stocks. I own broad market ETFs. And I own foreign stock ETFs in modernized Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan. These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.
You left out an important piece, do you own guns? And how far are you from the nearest city?
31
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 10:20pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 26, 10:20pm
just_passing_through says
DO NOT buy Eagles right now. Premium is too high. Better to buy silver rounds. At the top, or in a crises, no one gives a shit about what coins you have, just how much silver is in them.
I'd probably get the silver eagles. Bars are hard to spend during cannibal anarchy but doable.
DO NOT buy Eagles right now. Premium is too high. Better to buy silver rounds. At the top, or in a crises, no one gives a shit about what coins you have, just how much silver is in them.
32
stereotomy
2021 May 27, 8:27am
stereotomy
2021 May 27, 8:27am
bullionvault.com
Recommended by iTulip back in the day.
Bear in mind, any bullion transactions conducted outside the USA is subject to FATCA reporting requirements. Any profits are subject to 30% collectibles tax.
Recommended by iTulip back in the day.
Bear in mind, any bullion transactions conducted outside the USA is subject to FATCA reporting requirements. Any profits are subject to 30% collectibles tax.
33
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 27, 10:45pm
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 27, 10:45pm
NuttBoxer says
I'm not. That's just what I'd buy in an ideal situation. That way if no anarchy they trade well and if anarchy I have some silver. I have a pal who started stacking silver 3 years ago. I probably should have purchased back then.
I'll tell ya what else I'm not going to do: drive around / call around to coin dealers an pawn shops.
Not right now when everyone and their mother is doing it.
edit: gold was a great buy a few years ago as well.
DO NOT buy Eagles right now. Premium is too high. Better to buy silver rounds. At the top, or in a crises, no one gives a shit about what coins you have, just how much silver is in them.
I'm not. That's just what I'd buy in an ideal situation. That way if no anarchy they trade well and if anarchy I have some silver. I have a pal who started stacking silver 3 years ago. I probably should have purchased back then.
I'll tell ya what else I'm not going to do: drive around / call around to coin dealers an pawn shops.
Not right now when everyone and their mother is doing it.
edit: gold was a great buy a few years ago as well.
34
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 27, 10:49pm
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2021 May 27, 10:49pm
Onvacation says
Lol yeah, I noticed that. From the dates and descriptions, I didn't realize silver was being minted by US and Canada this century. I have some eagles and other somewhat large silver dollars my grandparents gave me as a kid. They would stick them in those plastic Easter egg hunt eggs. I got some $2 bills that way as well.
Enough silver to eat for a few days but not enough to get by on.
WOW! $42 a piece when you buy 500!
Lol yeah, I noticed that. From the dates and descriptions, I didn't realize silver was being minted by US and Canada this century. I have some eagles and other somewhat large silver dollars my grandparents gave me as a kid. They would stick them in those plastic Easter egg hunt eggs. I got some $2 bills that way as well.
Enough silver to eat for a few days but not enough to get by on.
35
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 28, 12:08pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 May 28, 12:08pm
just_passing_through says
Having a community of people you can depend on is maybe the most important part of survival. But silver/gold, guns, ammo, rations, and a water filter certainly don't hurt.
Enough silver to eat for a few days but not enough to get by on.
Having a community of people you can depend on is maybe the most important part of survival. But silver/gold, guns, ammo, rations, and a water filter certainly don't hurt.
36
Hircus
2021 Jun 7, 5:10pm
Hircus
2021 Jun 7, 5:10pm
clambo says
I was surprised to see FLSW didn't go down on the news of the G7 deal to have a 15% minimum tax, which might take some of the competitiveness away from the swiss tax haven.
Maybe the market expects the swiss to make other compensatory adjustments that make it a new positive for business, just in other ways.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/switzerland-must-adjust-remain-business-144428861.html
I plan on adding a few bucks to FLSW as soon as my shitty WFC gets a little bit higher.
I was surprised to see FLSW didn't go down on the news of the G7 deal to have a 15% minimum tax, which might take some of the competitiveness away from the swiss tax haven.
Maybe the market expects the swiss to make other compensatory adjustments that make it a new positive for business, just in other ways.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/switzerland-must-adjust-remain-business-144428861.html
patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,260,172 comments by 15,050 users - desertguy, GNL, krc online now