patrick.net

So many Hip And Cool ways to "invest" that are so much more exciting than boring mutual funds.

One thing I really like, about the mutual funds, there's no downside risk. I'm not talking about asset price drop risk. I'm talking about the risk of litigation.

Another thing that I really like about them, is the liquidity. If I change my mind, I can liquidate at no expense on the click of a mouse. If I want to liquidate a small portion of it to fund something small, say, like, - a weekend stay at someone else's airbnb or vrbo or whatever, - I can sell a small portion to get a bit of cash. Maybe even in a savvy way to harvest a tax loss. Difficult to do that with a large all-or-nothing "asset".

A third thing I like, is the maintenance costs. There aren't any.

It's not Hip, it's not Cool, it doesn't make me "smarter (or more savvy) than everyone else". It's boring, like a hipster friend told me, "Lazy and Stupid". Fine. Sticks and Stones.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Another thing that I really like about them, is the liquidity. If I change my mind, I can liquidate at no expense on the click of a mouse. If I want to liquidate a small portion of it to fund something small, say, like, - a weekend stay at someone else's airbnb or vrbo or whatever, - I can sell a small portion to get a bit of cash. Maybe even in a savvy way to harvest a tax loss. Difficult to do that with a large all-or-nothing "asset".

Even better: you can borrow against your holdings very cheeply, like all billionaires
do. Way cheaper than HELOC and doesn't require jumping through all the stupid hoops.

FuckCCP89 says

Even better: you can borrow against your holdings very cheeply

Yep. Maybe I used a margin loan to purchase Tacoma back in the day, as a sort of "bridge loan". The investment interest, deductible against gains, was way less than the tax bill would have been on a sale (not so nowadays with the lower tax brackets).

I'm not advocating one or the other. Our assets are in a mix of funds, real estate, and business. I certainly like having the option of liquid assets at my age, and I prefer the blandest of all - low cost index funds.
The topic at hand, though is the short term rental market. It has some appeal to us as a fun option. Real estate in many markets is safe to use leverage (safer than stocks), and current rates favor that. I do think the short term rental market is going to oversaturate, and there will be many people with dual purpose properties (short term rental / personal use) that end up not renting as well as hoped. Ideally, this won't happen shortly after a purchase.

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

FuckCCP89 says

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

Yep. My Hipster friend is having a difficult time trying to run his Real Estate Empire in San Diego that way with the neighbors and HOA's..

He's the same guy who says people like me who just cost average into mutual funds are Stupid and Lazy.

B.A.C.A.H. says

FuckCCP89 says

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

Yep. My Hipster friend is having a difficult time trying to run his Real Estate Empire in San Diego that way with the neighbors and HOA's..

He's the same guy who says people like me who just cost average into mutual funds are Stupid and Lazy.

They're doing this all over CA, in many counties you can't rent out guest houses anymore, so many live in the guest house of their vacation estate and rent out the main house.

Love Tahoe....go there every summer with the fam.
locals/full timers hate the vacationers but obviously you need the tourists to bring in the money. Would love to buy a vacation home in Tahoe and rent out but its so crazy overvalued right now and the risk of not being able to do short term rentals due to ban/restrictions is too high.

Just how does one upload an mp4 video from their phone?

@patrick

just_passing_through says

Just how does one upload an mp4 video from their phone?

Same as pictures.

413 Request Entity Too Large

413 Request Entity Too Large

---

nginx/1.6.2

Yeah, pics work but not a 20Mb vid..

Anyhow, VRBO, they can't steal your $ like airbnb does. Also an older better crowd usually.

That is the view from mine in Maui tonight.

Flew out to fix the toilet. ;)

YesYNot says

I'm not advocating one or the other. Our assets are in a mix of funds, real estate, and business. I certainly like having the option of liquid assets at my age, and I prefer the blandest of all - low cost index funds.
The topic at hand, though is the short term rental market. It has some appeal to us as a fun option. Real estate in many markets is safe to use leverage (safer than stocks), and current rates favor that. I do think the short term rental market is going to oversaturate, and there will be many people with dual purpose properties (short term rental / personal use) that end up not renting as well as hoped. Ideally, this won't happen shortly after a purchase.

Which is a good low cost index fund?

just_passing_through says

Yeah, pics work but not a 20Mb vid..

If you have an iPhone you can choose between 3 sizes when uploading a pic.

Fuck Airbnb. I would never stay in one. That is what hotels are for.

Thankfully every Airbnb situation that I know about over the last year, has gone down in flames.
The lady friend of my friend, has a huge townhouse, that she chopped up to provide three short term rentals. She even has a HOA, my friend kept telling her, that it was going to turn out bad for her, and that she would have to pay more to knock all of that down and put it back to the townhouse sf state. Her neighbors ratted her out, after seeing 3 or 4 new faces every other night at the place.

Then the people that bought the house across the street, with a quadplex in the back yard,(the previous owner rented to long term leases that he vetted, never had a problem).
The folks the new guy rented through Airbnb, would call Uber for everything, and the Uber drivers don't have the sense God gave Goat Shit, and they would park in neighbor's drive ways, often blocking them them in, and wouldn't move until you got out of your car and got confrontational with them. .The NY scumbag that bought the property finally put it up for sale, as the City is finning the hell out of him. As virtually every neighbor has complained. Now I'll mind you, I never had a single run in or dealing with one single person that ever rented his property through Airbnb. The number one issue that brought his situation to ahead, are the dumb as fuck Uber drivers. They are SHIT!

Booger says

Fuck Airbnb. I would never stay in one. That is what hotels are for.

When you have two or three kids, a hotel room is the opposite of comfortable. Whereas an Airbnb can give you some space to let the kids go to bed early in a separate room or watch their insane shows or whatever.
Idk, we’ve found it to be more convenient and about the same expense.

Shaman says

a hotel room is the opposite of comfortable.

You might be staying at the wrong hotels.

Can you bring a chick back to an airbnb?
I like hotels also; the people working there don’t act like they own the place (they don’t)

just_passing_through says

Anyhow, VRBO, they can't steal your $ like airbnb does. Also an older better crowd usually.

I'd build a website and give the property a name. I search VRBO and Airbnb for the property, but if it has a name I search for it on whatever search service you prefer. I've saved a ton in fees on the renter end.

A basic property website is child's play. I'd think most here could set one up in an hour at the alarming cost of maybe $100-200/yr with photos from your phone. Or you could hire that out if you want top notch stuff.

I don't know the fees for those sites anymore, but you could make a lot more cutting the middle man. Not sure if they filter your description though. Obviously you can't put a personal website, but I'm telling you I search property names and find them at a much better price. I buy travel insurance every trip now so anything VRBO or Airbnb offers is nothing to me. I was close to buying annual travel insurance at one point, but we're going to build and travel less.

WookieMan says

I'd build a website and give the property a name.

Yeah, good luck with that. That's what the people in my building do and staff it full time. I beat the shit out of them. (they use VRBO too, then again I beat most of maui) VRBO is what people use to go to maui. The rentals are much better and cheaper than any of the hotels on island. Hotels look nice on the outside but are shit on the inside - in maui.

Also, I get contract and other protections to smooth out my life. I've tried to deal off the platform with a few people and it was shit. I have other investments, real estate, a full time job, hobbies, chasing women. I don't need that kind of crap.

Not that I like VRBO, they suck, but it's by far the best game in town there. Nobody uses airBNB either.

I'm also raking in cash. Even during this recession. I'm booked out into next year after jacking my rates up after covid.

just_passing_through says

I'm also raking in cash. Even during this recession. I'm booked out into next year after jacking my rates up after covid.

Yeah, 3-4 people that we're close with have all been to HI in the last year or so. My mom and sister are going soon. I have no interest, but that doesn't matter. I can be in Puerto Rico in 3.5hrs versus 9hrs to any of the HI islands from Chicago. No passport/customs as well and same time zone instead of 5hrs different. And I have mediocre Spanish speaking skills.

airBNB seems more directed at really short term rentals. Like a couple days or even a sharing arrangement with the property owner to just have a bed and bath to use. More hipster and young traveling crowd. VRBO seems more for the weekly rentals for families or couples or even monthly rentals.

I still always check though if the owner has a site. On the owner end, the benefit is less likelihood of a negative review if they found you through a personal website. No matter how well managed, you're always going to get a person that never travels that bitches about the most minor of things. Like seeing an ant on the counter or something.

With a personal website you can just post positive testimonials and not deal with the trash that will at some point post a negative review on either of the major vacation rental sites. More management for sure, but if it's just one property, it's not that much time. It's the reason I got out of real estate, I can't deal with people. Glad to hear though you're making bank.

My point was mainly that some renters will search for the property (me) if there's a name and see if they have a website and you save on the fees for the renter and yourself. I've saved up to $500 before doing this and the owner still probably made more and likely spent 10-20 minutes dealing with our booking.

WookieMan says

I still always check though if the owner has a site.

From what I've seen on here (credit card angles etc.,) you're more of an expert traveler. Most people aren't like you.

WookieMan says

On the owner end, the benefit is less likelihood of a negative review if they found you through a personal website.

Not to out myself but I have nearly perfect reviews over several years. I'd guess that there are probably about 100 others there with that. It's not hard. Just be responsive. The company that manages rentals for our building takes up to 24hrs to respond. They are also lazy and don't know how to change prices. In the rare event people don't read my welcome message and don't know their door code - I can literally unlock the door for them with my watch while speaking to them on my watch.

WookieMan says

No matter how well managed, you're always going to get a person that never travels that bitches about the most minor of things.

I'd say about 2% of guests are like that. Perhaps because it's Hawaii, most people are in a great mood on vacation.

WookieMan says

airBNB seems more directed at really short term rentals. Like a couple days or even a sharing arrangement with the property owner to just have a bed and bath to use. More hipster and young traveling crowd. VRBO seems more for the weekly rentals for families or couples or even monthly rentals.

Correct.

WookieMan says

My point was mainly that some renters will search for the property (me) if there's a name and see if they have a website and you save on the fees for the renter and yourself. I've saved up to $500 before doing this and the owner still probably made more and likely spent 10-20 minutes dealing with our booking.

You could do that in my building but not for my unit. I'm independent but most units are rentals and most on VRBO through a leasing agency with a custom website for our building. I've remodeled mine much nicer than the others. Many still have popcorn ceiling. Then again, so do the nice hotels at Whalers Village.

just_passing_through says

You could do that in my building but not for my unit. I'm independent but most units are rentals and most on VRBO through a leasing agency with a custom website for our building. I've remodeled mine much nicer than the others. Many still have popcorn ceiling. Then again, so do the nice hotels at Whalers Village.

I get what you're saying. Don't disagree as the marketing is way more hands off and scheduling likely with VRBO. Kind of set and forget. Management is only a shit show if you have a renter trash the place but that can happen regardless. All I'm saying is one rental covers a website that you can manage from your phone and every other management aspects would be the same as VRBO minus the fees they charge. People do search property names, it's more common than you'd think.

There's a house on St. John, USVI I've been eyeing for a group trip. It would save $1,090 on the VRBO service fee going through their private site. Assume the cleaning fee is still $500. Win/win situation. Owner likely gets more, I get it cheaper and it's all the same photos and description you'd put on VRBO (which they did). $150-200/yr a max to host a basic site.

Don't know your nightly rate, but I ALWAYS search if they have a private site. It's ALWAYS cheaper for me and sometimes the owner will just cut the service fee in half and make more on their end. I am a unicorn, but we do exist and for $150/yr you could pull in more money depending on your rate which I presume is decent in HI. Just a suggestion. You do you. I won't lose sleep over it. It's not my realm either on the owner end (yet) so maybe there's more to it.

https://www.vrbo.com/1815492?adultsCount=12&arrival=2022-11-13&departure=2022-11-20&unitId=2377001

https://villalunablu.com/booking-page/

Just an example. Maybe not worth it at lower rates, but I'd take that savings if priced out. Taxes would be lower too "if" the owner paid them. I can tell you in the Caribbean they ain't tracking occupancy of houses. HI might be different.

WookieMan says

Management is only a shit show if you have a renter trash the place but that can happen regardless.

Insurance would cover that but I've had hundreds of bookings and probably over 1000 guests so far and nobody has messed stuff up. Except for that person who somehow bent a cheap frying pan into the shape of a taco. I'm the one who gets drunk and walks through the screen door lol.

WookieMan says

All I'm saying is one rental covers a website that you can manage from your phone and every other management aspects would be the same as VRBO minus the fees they charge. People do search property names, it's more common than you'd think.

Well maybe they do but it's a hellava lot more work. I review the prices of the competition and I charge top dollar and always have the place booked out solid 4 months with many going out a year. I didn't start out that way. I had to build up a reputation with reviews and remodeling/improvements. Now it's smooth sailing. I mainly just accept reservations, send welcome messages and do taxes at the end of each month. Once in a while answer a question or two.

In other words, I don't need to do anything to get more guest interest or money. Ain't broke don't fix it.

I don't like AirBnB since one of them cancelled on us at the last minute, leaving us without a place to stay. And AirBnB did not help at all with finding us another place.

At least hotels never cancel on you.

Also, AirBnB is an extreme leftist organization, promoting the usual society-destroying vices and lies.

Patrick says

At least hotels never cancel on you.

OR if there is a booking conflict they will go above and beyond. Often putting you up in nicer accommodations.

Right, the listed prices are FRAUD.

There should be a per-night charge like hotels.

One nice thing about Britain was that tax was included in everything, so you didn't get surprised.

https://www.reddit.com/r/airbnb_hosts/comments/wix3i6/airbnb_bookings_dropped_off_exponentially/

I have an AirBnB in Southern Pines, NC that I have rented out for the past year. I was receiving $3k-$5k in bookings per month and all of a sudden it dropped off with zero bookings for the next two months (August-September).

zzyzzx says

https://www.reddit.com/r/airbnb_hosts/comments/wix3i6/airbnb_bookings_dropped_off_exponentially/

I have an AirBnB in Southern Pines, NC that I have rented out for the past year. I was receiving $3k-$5k in bookings per month and all of a sudden it dropped off with zero bookings for the next two months (August-September).

The economy?

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/10/aspen-subsidized-housing-airbnb/

Woman booted from subsidized Aspen apartment after listing her place on Airbnb

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/08/23/steamboat-springs-short-term-rentals-housing-crisis/

Amid housing crisis, vacation towns like Steamboat Springs limit short-term rentals