patrick.net

So many Hip And Cool ways to "invest" that are so much more exciting than boring mutual funds.

One thing I really like, about the mutual funds, there's no downside risk. I'm not talking about asset price drop risk. I'm talking about the risk of litigation.

Another thing that I really like about them, is the liquidity. If I change my mind, I can liquidate at no expense on the click of a mouse. If I want to liquidate a small portion of it to fund something small, say, like, - a weekend stay at someone else's airbnb or vrbo or whatever, - I can sell a small portion to get a bit of cash. Maybe even in a savvy way to harvest a tax loss. Difficult to do that with a large all-or-nothing "asset".

A third thing I like, is the maintenance costs. There aren't any.

It's not Hip, it's not Cool, it doesn't make me "smarter (or more savvy) than everyone else". It's boring, like a hipster friend told me, "Lazy and Stupid". Fine. Sticks and Stones.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Another thing that I really like about them, is the liquidity. If I change my mind, I can liquidate at no expense on the click of a mouse. If I want to liquidate a small portion of it to fund something small, say, like, - a weekend stay at someone else's airbnb or vrbo or whatever, - I can sell a small portion to get a bit of cash. Maybe even in a savvy way to harvest a tax loss. Difficult to do that with a large all-or-nothing "asset".

Even better: you can borrow against your holdings very cheeply, like all billionaires
do. Way cheaper than HELOC and doesn't require jumping through all the stupid hoops.

FuckCCP89 says

Even better: you can borrow against your holdings very cheeply

Yep. Maybe I used a margin loan to purchase Tacoma back in the day, as a sort of "bridge loan". The investment interest, deductible against gains, was way less than the tax bill would have been on a sale (not so nowadays with the lower tax brackets).

I'm not advocating one or the other. Our assets are in a mix of funds, real estate, and business. I certainly like having the option of liquid assets at my age, and I prefer the blandest of all - low cost index funds.
The topic at hand, though is the short term rental market. It has some appeal to us as a fun option. Real estate in many markets is safe to use leverage (safer than stocks), and current rates favor that. I do think the short term rental market is going to oversaturate, and there will be many people with dual purpose properties (short term rental / personal use) that end up not renting as well as hoped. Ideally, this won't happen shortly after a purchase.

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

FuckCCP89 says

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

Yep. My Hipster friend is having a difficult time trying to run his Real Estate Empire in San Diego that way with the neighbors and HOA's..

He's the same guy who says people like me who just cost average into mutual funds are Stupid and Lazy.

B.A.C.A.H. says

FuckCCP89 says

The biggest elephant in the room is the possibilty of local ordinance severely limiting your shor-term rental operation AFTER you're already balls-deep into it.

Yep. My Hipster friend is having a difficult time trying to run his Real Estate Empire in San Diego that way with the neighbors and HOA's..

He's the same guy who says people like me who just cost average into mutual funds are Stupid and Lazy.

They're doing this all over CA, in many counties you can't rent out guest houses anymore, so many live in the guest house of their vacation estate and rent out the main house.

Love Tahoe....go there every summer with the fam.
locals/full timers hate the vacationers but obviously you need the tourists to bring in the money. Would love to buy a vacation home in Tahoe and rent out but its so crazy overvalued right now and the risk of not being able to do short term rentals due to ban/restrictions is too high.

Just how does one upload an mp4 video from their phone?

@patrick

just_passing_through says

Just how does one upload an mp4 video from their phone?

Same as pictures.

413 Request Entity Too Large

413 Request Entity Too Large

---

nginx/1.6.2

Yeah, pics work but not a 20Mb vid..

Anyhow, VRBO, they can't steal your $ like airbnb does. Also an older better crowd usually.

That is the view from mine in Maui tonight.

Flew out to fix the toilet. ;)

YesYNot says

I'm not advocating one or the other. Our assets are in a mix of funds, real estate, and business. I certainly like having the option of liquid assets at my age, and I prefer the blandest of all - low cost index funds.
The topic at hand, though is the short term rental market. It has some appeal to us as a fun option. Real estate in many markets is safe to use leverage (safer than stocks), and current rates favor that. I do think the short term rental market is going to oversaturate, and there will be many people with dual purpose properties (short term rental / personal use) that end up not renting as well as hoped. Ideally, this won't happen shortly after a purchase.

Which is a good low cost index fund?

just_passing_through says

Yeah, pics work but not a 20Mb vid..

If you have an iPhone you can choose between 3 sizes when uploading a pic.

Fuck Airbnb. I would never stay in one. That is what hotels are for.

Thankfully every Airbnb situation that I know about over the last year, has gone down in flames.
The lady friend of my friend, has a huge townhouse, that she chopped up to provide three short term rentals. She even has a HOA, my friend kept telling her, that it was going to turn out bad for her, and that she would have to pay more to knock all of that down and put it back to the townhouse sf state. Her neighbors ratted her out, after seeing 3 or 4 new faces every other night at the place.

Then the people that bought the house across the street, with a quadplex in the back yard,(the previous owner rented to long term leases that he vetted, never had a problem).
The folks the new guy rented through Airbnb, would call Uber for everything, and the Uber drivers don't have the sense God gave Goat Shit, and they would park in neighbor's drive ways, often blocking them them in, and wouldn't move until you got out of your car and got confrontational with them. .The NY scumbag that bought the property finally put it up for sale, as the City is finning the hell out of him. As virtually every neighbor has complained. Now I'll mind you, I never had a single run in or dealing with one single person that ever rented his property through Airbnb. The number one issue that brought his situation to ahead, are the dumb as fuck Uber drivers. They are SHIT!

Booger says

Fuck Airbnb. I would never stay in one. That is what hotels are for.

When you have two or three kids, a hotel room is the opposite of comfortable. Whereas an Airbnb can give you some space to let the kids go to bed early in a separate room or watch their insane shows or whatever.
Idk, we’ve found it to be more convenient and about the same expense.

Shaman says

a hotel room is the opposite of comfortable.

You might be staying at the wrong hotels.

Can you bring a chick back to an airbnb?
I like hotels also; the people working there don’t act like they own the place (they don’t)

just_passing_through says

Anyhow, VRBO, they can't steal your $ like airbnb does. Also an older better crowd usually.

I'd build a website and give the property a name. I search VRBO and Airbnb for the property, but if it has a name I search for it on whatever search service you prefer. I've saved a ton in fees on the renter end.

A basic property website is child's play. I'd think most here could set one up in an hour at the alarming cost of maybe $100-200/yr with photos from your phone. Or you could hire that out if you want top notch stuff.

I don't know the fees for those sites anymore, but you could make a lot more cutting the middle man. Not sure if they filter your description though. Obviously you can't put a personal website, but I'm telling you I search property names and find them at a much better price. I buy travel insurance every trip now so anything VRBO or Airbnb offers is nothing to me. I was close to buying annual travel insurance at one point, but we're going to build and travel less.

WookieMan says

I'd build a website and give the property a name.

Yeah, good luck with that. That's what the people in my building do and staff it full time. I beat the shit out of them. (they use VRBO too, then again I beat most of maui) VRBO is what people use to go to maui. The rentals are much better and cheaper than any of the hotels on island. Hotels look nice on the outside but are shit on the inside - in maui.

Also, I get contract and other protections to smooth out my life. I've tried to deal off the platform with a few people and it was shit. I have other investments, real estate, a full time job, hobbies, chasing women. I don't need that kind of crap.

Not that I like VRBO, they suck, but it's by far the best game in town there. Nobody uses airBNB either.

I'm also raking in cash. Even during this recession. I'm booked out into next year after jacking my rates up after covid.

just_passing_through says

I'm also raking in cash. Even during this recession. I'm booked out into next year after jacking my rates up after covid.

Yeah, 3-4 people that we're close with have all been to HI in the last year or so. My mom and sister are going soon. I have no interest, but that doesn't matter. I can be in Puerto Rico in 3.5hrs versus 9hrs to any of the HI islands from Chicago. No passport/customs as well and same time zone instead of 5hrs different. And I have mediocre Spanish speaking skills.

airBNB seems more directed at really short term rentals. Like a couple days or even a sharing arrangement with the property owner to just have a bed and bath to use. More hipster and young traveling crowd. VRBO seems more for the weekly rentals for families or couples or even monthly rentals.

I still always check though if the owner has a site. On the owner end, the benefit is less likelihood of a negative review if they found you through a personal website. No matter how well managed, you're always going to get a person that never travels that bitches about the most minor of things. Like seeing an ant on the counter or something.

With a personal website you can just post positive testimonials and not deal with the trash that will at some point post a negative review on either of the major vacation rental sites. More management for sure, but if it's just one property, it's not that much time. It's the reason I got out of real estate, I can't deal with people. Glad to hear though you're making bank.

My point was mainly that some renters will search for the property (me) if there's a name and see if they have a website and you save on the fees for the renter and yourself. I've saved up to $500 before doing this and the owner still probably made more and likely spent 10-20 minutes dealing with our booking.