patrick.net

HeadSet says

The landlord ignores such rules when inconvenient to him.
The landlord then wants the law enforced when someone inconveniences him.

The guy is not asking the law enforced to collect missed rent payment, but taking back his own property. If the law deems the rental agreement illegal due to some element of the house not up to code or not having permit, then the tenancy agreement is invalid and consequently neither can the landlord collect rent nor can the tenant be there. So legally, the landlord should not be able to collect the missed rent, and the tenant has to be out of there. Otherwise, what's happening here is encouraging continued illegal occupation, reducing rental supply (i.e. the owner can not do anything to correct the problem, as the illegal occupant is still there), and eventually may well lead to either violence or non-payment of property tax, or both. If the court/law deems unpermitted shower as unsafe or unsanitary, then encouraging the occupant to continue occupation of the place preventing corrective measures may well lead to unsafe / unsanitary conditions thereby making the court and the judge liable to consequences.

It's a little like: if a prostitute has a repeating John in a state / city where prostitution is illegal, if the John owes the prostitute back pay for service rendered, the state / court is well within its right to refuse the enforcement of collection because it is illegal for the woman to sell herself so the agreement between the prostitute and the John is not enforceable. However, that does not mean the state or the court would be in the right to allow the John continue having sex with the prostitute against her will and occupy her vagina against her will because she had previously entered into an illegal agreement with the John. Just because she had violated the law in entering into an agreement selling herself doesn't mean she had forfeited her property right to her own body (aka self-ownership).

Reality says

So legally, the landlord should not be able to collect the missed rent, and the tenant has to be out of there. Otherwise, what's happening here is encouraging continued illegal occupation,

You are correct - I just do not have any pity for the man who ignored the occupancy and permit rules. I have owned 10 rentals over time, and I definitely do not like California style laws that allow squatting. I like it here in Virginia where I could evict a deadbeat within 2 months and get a judgement for unpaid rent and damages. However, when I bought distressed homes to rehab and rent out, I got the permits and brought everything up to current code.

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just_passing_through says

FWIW mainstream 'news' claimed we already had 30 million illegals back when Bush-II was elected.

FWIW, see below.

source: https://undocumented.thehastingscenter.org/issuebrief/demographics-and-socioeconomic-status/

"From 2000 to 2007 the estimated number of undocumented immigrants in the US had steadily increased from 8.4 million to 12.0 million, then declined slightly, reaching its current level by 2009. "

"As of March 2010, an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants were living in the United States, a figure equivalent to 3.7% of the nation’s population."

That's the right timeframe and that looks a lot more accurate. It was around 2005 I heard 30 million more than once. On Fox News.

In particular I remember that number because I was living with a Brazilian chick who'd overstayed her visa who always bitched when she called whatever number the government had given her to get citizenship the recording always told her to call back in 999 days or something like that.

Apparently her sisters had it easier because they came before 9/11...

Reality says

thereby making the court and the judge liable to consequences

You've made the most sensible post so far but that part almost made me choke laughing!

https://coloradosun.com/2023/11/01/short-term-rental-legislation-raises-property-taxes/

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

zzyzzx says

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

They are commercial properties since they are being rented out.

HeadSet says

zzyzzx says

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

They are commercial properties since they are being rented out.

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zzyzzx says

https://coloradosun.com/2023/11/01/short-term-rental-legislation-raises-property-taxes/

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

In Florida they make money by a 6% sales tax plus a local 1% county tax and a 6% bed tax for total of 13% tax, in addition to the property tax which does not have homestead exemption benefits. So Florida makes a lot of money on short term rentals.

Plus there are about 15,000 condos on Panama City Beach that pay the school tax as part of property tax. They are short term rentals so they add to the school tax base without sending kids to the public schools.

How much is this the lobby efforts of hotels to try to make short term vacation rentals have to raise their rates even more and make them less competitive compared to hotels (when factoring in the benefits of vacation rentals like kitchens, more space and privacy, etc) ?

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zzyzzx says

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

Yes!

Why should Short-term rentals not pay the same taxes and be treated as hotel rooms?

Furthermore, all nuisance fines (Garbage, Noise) must be paid directly by the owner within 30 days.

And frankly, property taxes on SFH Short Term Rentals should be at commercial rates.

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HeadSet says

zzyzzx says

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

They are commercial properties since they are being rented out.

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Are hotels commercial real estate? Short term rentals are in the hotel/inn business, not renting living space residences

HeadSet says

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HeadSet says

zzyzzx says

Colorado lawmakers got an earful Tuesday from short-term rental owners on a proposal to classify many of their homes as commercial properties and impose a much higher tax rate.

They are commercial properties since they are being rented out.

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Are hotels commercial real estate? Short term rentals are in the hotel/inn business, not renting living space residences

Yes. And since we're throwing links at each other, here's one saying exactly that in "type #5": https://fnrpusa.com/blog/types-of-commercial-real-estate/

zzyzzx says

She's a moron. My place has Pacific waves hitting a seawall maybe 20ft from my patio. So I have insurance to fix the place if a wave ever goes through it AND to replace the lost income.

https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-ban-makes-rents-housing-prices-drop-irvine-california-study-2023-11

The best evidence yet that banning Airbnbs will make rent go down

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/airbnb-italy-tax-seizure-800-million/index.html

Italian tax authorities are poised to seize some €779 million ($836 million) from Airbnb as a result of its alleged failure to pay taxes owed by landlords using the platform.

https://people.com/airbnb-tenant-from-hell-escorted-from-property-by-police-8391513

Airbnb 'Tenant from Hell' Who Allegedly Lived Rent-Free for 575 Days Leaves Property

(((Elizabeth Hirschhorn))), who was referred to as a "tenant from hell," apparently departed the Los Angeles guesthouse she had been staying at for 575 days, reportedly "rent-free," on Friday.

zzyzzx says

https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-ban-makes-rents-housing-prices-drop-irvine-california-study-2023-11

The best evidence yet that banning Airbnbs will make rent go down

I agree as many vacation or short term rentals will either be rented long term (at least 6 month leases) or sold.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/17u441n/ive_noticed_a_lot_of_airbnbs_are_hitting_the/

I've noticed a lot of Airbnbs are hitting the market, why?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbnb-agrees-pay-621-million-115658368.html

Airbnb agrees to pay $621 million to settle a tax dispute in Italy

..

AirBnB now around $147... about $6 above its IPO price back in December 2020...



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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12870771/Hawaii-governor-Maui-vacation-rentals-converted-homes.html

zzyzzx says

(((Elizabeth Hirschhorn))), who was referred to as a "tenant from hell," apparently departed the Los Angeles guesthouse she had been staying at for 575 days, reportedly "rent-free," on Friday.

Those crazy eyes

https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-ban-makes-rents-housing-prices-drop-irvine-california-study-2023-11

The best evidence yet that banning Airbnbs will make rent go down

After Irvine's ban went into effect, long-term rents in the city dropped by 3%, according to the study, a decrease of $114 a month on average.

just_passing_through says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12870771/Hawaii-governor-Maui-vacation-rentals-converted-homes.html

Ah, the sweet smell of Socialism.

https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/01/23/180000-fine-illegal-short-term-rental-las-vegas/

$180,000 fine for illegal short-term rental in Las Vegas

zzyzzx says

https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/01/23/180000-fine-illegal-short-term-rental-las-vegas/

$180,000 fine for illegal short-term rental in Las Vegas

The hotel and resort lobby wants government to target vacation rentals. Look at New York City targeting AirBnB.

Panama City Beach government is recently putting more regulations on vacation rentals due to lobbying by St Joe (ticker: JOE).

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AD says

The hotel and resort lobby wants government to target vacation rentals.

zzyzzx says

Yup. Hotels do some of that, too, but not to such extent

mell says

Yup. Hotels do some of that, too, but not to such extent

I don't use airBNB but VRBO instead and everything is up-front and reasonable. That is if you accept paying >17% in taxes to the state and maui county. I push that down to guests and actually have to pay taxes on the taxes I collect.

Things are really slowing down in Maui. More so than during covid and by that I mean when I was allowed to operate it was no problem getting people in there at a high dollar.

I haven't seen it like this in the 7 years I've been doing it. Perfectly fine up until the end of next month, it's turning into a ghost town and not just my unit. The cleaning company told me almost nobody has reservations.

I wonder if it's the threats of a moratorium by governor murder.

Also yes the hotel lobby are snakes there too. The governor wants to get rid of vacation rentals and rental cars and force tourists to take buses to much more expensive hotels and stay on hotel grounds only. Where STRs make up >40% of the income the state gets in Maui. (not to mention tourist $ spent by people who rent cars all over the island and handy-men etc., doing repairs for us etc.,.)

They won't come close to getting enough people into the hotels there to make up the difference. STRs on the water are a waaay better deal. Also being able to rent a car to see things all over the island is a nice perk too.