patrick.net

richwicks says

I just don't believe you are as naive as you make yourself appear to be.

Yup.

Eric Holder says

Look, all the talk about "shoot on sight whoever enters a Fed building w/o permission" is sexy and all that, but in reality there must be valid threat to the officer or people whom he protects in order to use deadly force. The need to escalate to the deadly force also might arise when an attempt to arrest the individual deteriorates to the point officers life becomes endangered. Antifa/BLM operatives simply entering a federal building doesn't check all necessary boxes,

Exactly. That's why I called what Sunnyvale wrote "casual Whataboutism" and implored him to bring legal standards and precedent to the discussion instead of hypocritical and BS false equivocations.

Automan Empire says

let's see you make a good faith effort to approach the standards for argumentation and evidence that the legal system demands

Haven't seen a good faith effort yet in this thread.

Y'all have a HUGE ideological blind spot here. The mob was breaching the last barrier between themselves and the evacuating congressmen the police and USSS are sworn to protect. The officer warns her to stop or he will shoot her. THERE IS VIDEO AND AUDIO FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES OF THE SHOOTING. The way Trump fans reduce this to "Peacefully protesting" is literally the same thing as when Trump fans mock dead criminals' families for saying "He was a good boy went to bible study etc." I don't know how you can watch the video and listen to the audio, then in good faith claim the officer shot her in cold blood with no justification.

Automan Empire says

Eric Holder says

Look, all the talk about "shoot on sight whoever enters a Fed building w/o permission" is sexy and all that, but in reality there must be valid threat to the officer or people whom he protects in order to use deadly force. The need to escalate to the deadly force also might arise when an attempt to arrest the individual deteriorates to the point officers life becomes endangered. Antifa/BLM operatives simply entering a federal building doesn't check all necessary boxes,

Exactly. That's why I called what Sunnyvale wrote "casual Whataboutism" and implored him to bring legal standards and precedent to the discussion instead of hypocritical and BS false equivocations.

How is it "whataboutism"? More like recollection of a precedent. Antifa should've been arrested for breaking and entering a federal building. Ashli should've been arrested for breaking and entering. Instead nothing has happened to the former and the latter was fired upon w/o even attempt to arrest her.

Remember: accidental killing of Oskar Grant who was actively resisting an attempt to arrest him was ruled illegal. But killing a person w/o even trying to arrest her is huhky-dory? How?

Then there is that argument wrt "lives in danger". The lives of persons under protection of that officer were not in danger from a 100lbs unarmed woman because the 200lbs 6'2" officer in body armor was standing between her and them. And the life of the officer wasn't in danger either because how exactly an unarmed 100lbs woman is a danger to a football-player-sized dude, trained in hand-to-hand combat and wearing a bulletproof west? Even if he was alone against her, which he wasn't.

This shit won't fly in front of a jury and we both know it.

Eric Holder says

How is it "whataboutism"? More like recollection of a precedent.

There are places on the internet where I participate in good faith discussion of topics like this. The way it works is, you list out the elements used to determine if an officer involved shooting was justified, then you go point by point with the facts of the case at hand and see if each applies, using published and well known standards.

Nobody in this thread has done anything approaching this. People are operating in their emotions, not bringing objectivity to the table. As such, we haven't been able to reach a meeting of minds on the facts of the case and the law.

Eric Holder says

Then there is that argument wrt "lives in danger".

The Capitol police and especially the USSS are NOT like regular cops. They are sworn to protect congressmen, President etc, they do NOT fuck around with warning shots or disabling shots, in fact they will literally fight to the death to fulfill their mission. The woman was the first to climb through the broken window the mob she was with broke. When she got shot, luckily the spell was broken and the Trump fans realized the police and USSS were NOT "secretly" on theirs or Trump's side, and they backed down and therefore lived.

Now, let's see if you can name the element of justification for use of deadly force that existed in Ashley Babbitt's case but did NOT exist in most if not all of the "BLM attacks on buildings." If you can't do that, it's proof you're not arguing in good faith.

Automan Empire says

Eric Holder says

Then there is that argument wrt "lives in danger".

The Capitol police and especially the USSS are NOT like regular cops. They are sworn to protect congressmen, President etc, they do NOT fuck around with warning shots or disabling shots, in fact they will literally fight to the death to fulfill their mission.

Are you sure? So they have permission to simply drop anyone just for being present in a federal building w/o even attempting to arrest them? I seriously doubt this is true.

Eric Holder says

Automan Empire says

Eric Holder says

Then there is that argument wrt "lives in danger".

The Capitol police and especially the USSS are NOT like regular cops. They are sworn to protect congressmen, President etc, they do NOT fuck around with warning shots or disabling shots, in fact they will literally fight to the death to fulfill their mission.

Are you sure? So they have permission to simply drop anyone just for being present in a federal building w/o even attempting to arrest them? I seriously doubt this is true.

I get where you're coming from, but just look. He's getting off, cleared of any wrongdoing, no punishment or anything. If that isn't explicit approval from the government for what he did, I don't know what to tell you.

Now if we're asking if that's right or wrong...

Edit: I wanted to point out that the officer has glaring issues with his training. No one that has proper awareness during stressful situations like that would make the decision to use fatal force. Fucking amateur.

DhammaStep says

I get where you're coming from, but just look. He's getting off, cleared of any wrongdoing, no punishment or anything. If that isn't explicit approval from the government for what he did, I don't know what to tell you.

So did Chauvin. At first. So did Mehserle. At first. It's not over until it's over. And it's not over.

Eric Holder says

Automan Empire says

Eric Holder says

Then there is that argument wrt "lives in danger".

The Capitol police and especially the USSS are NOT like regular cops. They are sworn to protect congressmen, President etc, they do NOT fuck around with warning shots or disabling shots, in fact they will literally fight to the death to fulfill their mission.

Are you sure? So they have permission to simply drop anyone just for being present in a federal building w/o even attempting to arrest them? I seriously doubt this is true.

lol sure thing - the "grand capitol police doesn't fuck around", because they were "overwhelmed" by grandmas and shamans in viking and animal skin costumes. But shooting unarmed 5'2" womyn is so not fucking around tough! This is such bullshit, that jive ass ((c) TPB) should go to jail for life for his cowardly actions. Maybe give him parole if he vows to better his sanctimonious bullshit spewing out of his orifices or does a volunteer tour in Afghanistan. Fucker

DhammaStep says

I wanted to point out that the officer has glaring issues with his training.

Do you know how many years the officer was in that position?

Eric Holder says

permission to simply drop anyone just for being present in a federal building

"Just for being present in a Federal building?" Really?

OK, I see you're not arguing rationally or in good faith here. Peace out.

Just for being present after being actively let in.

We all saw the videos of the police moving barriers and letting the crowd into the Capitol.

Automan Empire says

Eric Holder says

permission to simply drop anyone just for being present in a federal building

"Just for being present in a Federal building?" Really?

OK, I see you're not arguing rationally or in good faith here. Peace out.

I accept your intellectual surrender.

PS. Yes, legally she did nothing except being present in the federal building w/o permission. Call it trespassing if you will. But that's it. There is nothing else: no weapons, no physical contact with LEOs or their masters, nothing.

Automan Empire says

DhammaStep says

I wanted to point out that the officer has glaring issues with his training.

Do you know how many years the officer was in that position?

What is the relevance of that question? Someone can fail miserably at their job on the first day or 30 years in. Being poorly trained and lacking discipline is not something that should be handwaved away, especially when OUR TAXES PAY FOR THEM. We technically don't even know who the officer is.

Automan Empire says

There are places on the internet where I participate in good faith discussion of topics like this.

How much do you get paid?

By the post or by the hour?

Just asking because you come off as an intelligent person but often act disingenuously.

Automan Empire says

Do you know how many years the officer was in that position?

Too many. Should've been fired for leaving loaded duty weapon in a public restroom.

DhammaStep says

What is the relevance of that question? Someone can fail miserably at their job on the first day or 30 years in. Being poorly trained and lacking discipline is not something that should be handwaved away, especially when OUR TAXES PAY FOR THEM. We technically don't even know who the officer is.

Chauvin was trained in the knee to neck restraint.

This will all end with "Liberty and Justice for all", Or we will continue down this rapid slide to tyranny and Faucism.

"Your papers please."

Eric Holder says

Automan Empire says

Do you know how many years the officer was in that position?

Too many. Should've been fired for leaving loaded duty weapon in a public restroom.

Yep.

Onvacation says

Chauvin was trained in the knee to neck restraint.

The expression on Chauvin's face when the verdict was read remind me of the look on JFK's assassin when he claimed to be a "patsy".

mell says

Eric Holder says

Automan Empire says

Do you know how many years the officer was in that position?

Too many. Should've been fired for leaving loaded duty weapon in a public restroom.

Yep.

Anybody could have found that weapon and then go to the Nancy's office..... That's what putting congresscritter's lives in danger really looks like, folks!

Lt. Mike Byrd murdered Ashli Babbitt in cold blood.

No warning. She was no threat. He could have pistol whipped her back through the broken window. He could have stood at the broken window with his gun pointed at anyone and said, "I will shoot you if you try to enter here." But instead he stood off in the corner and pulled the trigger.

Chauvin was subduing a law breaking felon resisting arrest and gets decades in jail when the felon overdoses. Mike Byrd should get at least the same.

FUCKING MURDERER!

How could anyone see that video and not conclude cold blooded murder? Maybe this is why they will not press charges, as they know a jury would convict.

LOCK HIM UP!

Whites don’t riot, no one cares.

I imagine I'll be waiting patiently for a rational, good faith argument that this was justified, at all.

He was already "exonerated"
Move along, nothing to see here.

The next time someone resists arrest the cop should go straight to the glock. Anything less would be murder.

Fortwaynemobile says

Whites don’t riot, no one cares.

Another angle:

I bet the protesters at the end of the video are rotting in jail.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/01/12/cop-who-killed-ashli-babbitt-was-never-interviewed-by-investigators-now-walks-free/?source=patrick.net

Cop Who Killed Ashli Babbitt Never Interviewed By Investigators, Now Back In Charge Of House Security
BY: PAUL SPERRY
JANUARY 12, 2022

Patrick says

Cop Who Killed Ashli Babbitt Never Interviewed By Investigators, Now Back In Charge Of House Security

While Chauvin rots in jail for trying to arrest an overdosing thug. Something is wrong in America

With Liberty and Justice for All

Onvacation says

Lt. Mike Byrd murdered Ashli Babbitt in cold blood.

This is not murder just because an employee of the government did it? No American citizens should be handled this way, no American citizen. This is terrible.

https://slaynews.com/news/federal-government-sued-30m-wrongful-death-ashli-babbitt/

Federal Government Sued for $30 Million over ‘Wrongful Death’ of Ashli Babbitt

Political watchdog group Judicial Watch has now filed a wrongful death suit for $30 million against the federal government for the shooting of Babbitt at the Capitol.

The conservative public interest firm filed the lawsuit in federal district court in southern California on behalf of Babbitt’s husband, Aaron Babbitt, and her estate.

Patrick says

https://slaynews.com/news/federal-government-sued-30m-wrongful-death-ashli-babbitt/

Federal Government Sued for $30 Million over ‘Wrongful Death’ of Ashli Babbitt

Political watchdog group Judicial Watch has now filed a wrongful death suit for $30 million against the federal government for the shooting of Babbitt at the Capitol.

The conservative public interest firm filed the lawsuit in federal district court in southern California on behalf of Babbitt’s husband, Aaron Babbitt, and her estate.

Prediction: it will be quetly settled for a non-disclosed sum.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/3115584/justice-department-ordered-answer-for-jan-6-killing-ashli-babbitt/

A federal judge has ordered the Justice Department to “answer” charges in a $30 million wrongful death suit on behalf of Ashli Babbitt, the 35-year-old Trump supporter shot dead as she entered a lobby just off the House floor during the Jan. 6 Capitol riots.

In a sign that the case filed by Babbitt’s estate and Washington-based Judicial Watch has been greenlighted, U.S. District Court Judge Ana C. Reyes gave the government a month to address four of the seven counts in the lawsuit.

Those four include the “wrongful” death count as well as negligence and assault and battery claims against then-U.S. Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd.

The judge also said she would listen to further pleas from Judicial Watch to have the trial heard in San Diego, home to Babbitt’s husband. A court there sent the case to Washington, where most of the Jan. 6 cases have been heard.

“Ashli Babbitt’s family is thrilled the $30 million wrongful death lawsuit for her outrageous killing is moving full speed ahead,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said.

$30 million is not nearly enough.

It's a sign of how sick our justice system is when Derek Chauvin gets decades in prison for holding down a criminal drug addict that died from overdose while Ashli was shot without warning while protesting by a cop that got promoted.

SICK!

George Floyds family got $27 million.

RWSGFY says

Patrick says

https://slaynews.com/news/federal-government-sued-30m-wrongful-death-ashli-babbitt/

Federal Government Sued for $30 Million over ‘Wrongful Death’ of Ashli Babbitt

Political watchdog group Judicial Watch has now filed a wrongful death suit for $30 million against the federal government for the shooting of Babbitt at the Capitol.

The conservative public interest firm filed the lawsuit in federal district court in southern California on behalf of Babbitt’s husband, Aaron Babbitt, and her estate.

Prediction: it will be quetly settled for a non-disclosed sum.

Looks like I was wrong: it's going to court and the asking sum is disclosed.

He also planted the fake bomb. There's a video of Byrd walking g up to assainate Ashley. He was limping the same walk as the bomb hoaxer.