patrick.net

Buy simple guns as a newbie
Double barrel shotgun, low recoil ammo
Revolver
They're simple to maintain and operate

You can get a Mossberg 500 (and undoubtedly others) with interchangeable barrels. One reasonably priced kit comes with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 28-inch barrel. Shotguns with barrel shorter than 18 inch come under different laws. The longer barrel is considered appropriate for shooting clays and, presumably, wildlife. The shorter barrel will give you the most maneuverability inside a house and maybe a little bit more shot spread at the expense of slightly slower muzzle velocity.

An additional consideration with the Mossberg or Remington is that they are extremely popular, which means parts, upgrades, and repair expertise are readily available. I'm wondering if many other makes are parts-interchangeable with either of these two?

I'd go with a shoulder stock over a pistol grip. There are plenty of videos out there explaining how the pistol grip might be fun but isn't all that practical. But, hey, if you get the Mossberg or Remington, I'm sure you could source dozens of different 3rd-party grips if you change your mind.

komputodo says

Mossberg Mdl 500A Riot Gun 12 ga SN:L033660, Short barreled pump action shotgun with pistol grip

Hmmm.... If less than 26 inches in length, it's classified as a "short-barreled shot gun" and comes under an extra set of restrictions.

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards? One has to know one's adversary. Perhaps Patrick is less worried about BLM than a federal tactical assault team.

I'm sure I wouldn't win against the assault team. I just want to create an incentive to be left alone.

stfu says

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards? One has to know one's adversary.

Can I still get one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust

zzyzzx says

Can I still get one of these:

no, but these ones will penetrate most APC's: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/905413713

Re: shooting is expensive; 9mm ammo was not expensive a few years ago but it shot up so to speak.

I paid $10/box of 50 in Walmart a couple of years ago.

What I liked about shooting my pistols was how I need to concentrate on the task to get good results, I guess it’s relaxing to do that.

I love my CZ75, preferred by the Russian Spetznaz and Delta Force among others.

For car and concealed carry, my .380 Glock 42 is good, but it is not sold in California for some dumb reason.

Now I wanna go shooting.

#4 buckshot or

Tango load

stfu says

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards?

No kevlar or plates on the face.

A Miss or Hit with a standard shell as the first load will likely scare or disorient the target.
As you approach and have a better shot, a slug as the second round will stun even an armored target.
Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target. You would never see professional training that advocates "head shots" - it just makes good Hollywood film reels and Call of Duty experience points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPgRPRu4sho

rocketjoe79 says

Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target.

From 10 yards with a long gun? Piece of fucking cake!

Buy some pepper spray for protection against those who are not armed.

Good idea, will do.

rocketjoe79 says

Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target.

With an 18 inch barrel 12 gauge riot gun from 10-15 feet with 00 buckshot? The chance of not stopping the target is about the same as dying from covid. And 1 second later let another round go. Then go get the mop bucket.

I'm not an expert, but I do have some interest in unusual weapons:

What do more knowledgeable people think of this?

https://topairgun.com/product/45-hatsan-hercules-bully-pcp-pellet-rifle/

I wonder if it can be left with compressed air in it? The advantage is that since it's just firing slugs, you'll never run out of propellant, and the slugs SHOULD (?) be relatively cheap. Also, I believe air guns are entirely unregulated.

That weapon is for deer and boar and it can certainly kill a man. It's subsonic (all air guns are), but it's damned cool.

@Patrick, there's a shooting range at Steven's Creek Reservoir - I believe they offer safety courses, and you should take one regardless and so should anybody that lives with you, including your wife and children no matter how uncomfortable they are with handling a weapon.

http://www.sunnyvalegunclub.com/

If you haven't taken one, even if you think it's silly, you should. When I was a kid, my grandfather and father were extremely strict with how I handled a weapon to such a degree that I'm uncomfortable pointing a TOY gun at a person. When I'm handling a gun, in my mind, it's always loaded, and it could always go off at any second so it's never pointed at anything I'm not comfortable shooting.

richwicks says

What do more knowledgeable people think of this?

https://topairgun.com/product/45-hatsan-hercules-bully-pcp-pellet-rifle/

Muzzle energy with .45 is 290 ft/lbs. This is slightly less than .380ACP and more than .38 Special fired from a pistol. Not bad but not spectacular.

If you want a gun so you have something when the show up at your door to give you your jab, you have waited too long.

Or you could act like you are OK with getting it, long enough to then grab the vial and smash it.

I bought the Rock Island AG pump, 26" 20 gauge. Just under $400 with tax, test, etc.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2020/11/9/reviewed-rock-island-armory-all-generations-pump-action-shotgun

Light enough that wife can use it, but 20 gauge still has plenty of vaxx-stopping power. Makes that classic shotgun racking sound when you rack it, which alone is valuable.

I can pick it up in 10 days.

RC2006 says

That defeats the whole purpose of having a scatter gun. Sure it will look cool, and you'll make a mess taking out one or two of the ten people running after you.
But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

Not many people will sally forth with about 3 or 4 #9 bird shot in them. With just one shot, you'll make about 5 or 6 people think better of it.

The Shot above is for taking out just one bad mother fucker, and taking that person or animal out, is all that is required. When you've got an army of baddies charging after you, you want spread and cover. You can then pull out the buck shot to pick of the wounded and those you slowed down if they keep advancing.

Like $5 a shell?

Tenpoundbass says

But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

Gun control means hitting what you aim for.

Onvacation says

Tenpoundbass says

But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

Gun control means hitting what you aim for.

"Aim small - miss small".

Onvacation says

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

I had a similar experience at about age 15. Worked on a friend's grandfather's farm for a couple of weeks in the "thumb" of Michigan.

His grandfather gave us shotguns and told us to shoot at any birds in the fields because they eat the grain.

The crows would recognize guns and leave in a hurry even before we shot, but the other birds would not.

I didn't really want to kill them, so aimed my shotgun slightly to the side of a bird, but killed it. That was my lesson in shot spread.

Patrick says

Recommendations for shotgun models?

Big 5 Sporting Goods carries these:

Citadel ATA12 12-Gauge Semi-Auto Sh...
(4)
4.3 out of 5 stars. 4 reviews
Citadel ATA12 12-Gauge Semi-Auto Shotgun
$329.99
Dickinson Arms 12-Ga. Defense Pump ...<...

I think a pistol caliber carbine with a suppressor is the best HD firearm. A shot gun can also be effective but you will suffer tinnitus long after you have to use it. Mossberg 500 is a good place to start when looking at a shotgun. Make sure you learn how to use it and learn not to short stroke it. Short stroking it will jam it up fast and you don't want to be dealing with that in a high stress situation.

I have several Rock Island Armory 1911s. They are good for the price. My 45 acp Commander has been a good shooter since I bought it used many years ago. I doubt you will have any serious issues with the new shotgun.

Can you take it to a gunsmith and have the barrel shortened to 16.5"? 26" of barrel is not a good thing to have in a house.

I asked, but the place did not have the Mossberg 500. I was ready to buy, so I bought anyway.

Patrick says

I asked, but the place did not have the Mossberg 500. I was ready to buy, so I bought anyway.

If you are limited to one..

Patrick says

I asked, but the place did not have the Mossberg 500. I was ready to buy, so I bought anyway.

Oh yeah! Enough thinking and talking. Just "pull the trigger"! So to speak. Everything works out from there!

Hi Patrick,

when I got interested in firearms for hunting animals, I took these NRA-sanctioned firearms safety classes at Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara.

These are superb classes for novices like us. The instructor Bill Tidwell had some hands-on instruction; we all got to try out the different loading procedures for different types of actions (with dummy loads, of course). We made it a family affair, bringing along my adult kids and their mom.

Bill is a great instructor and conversationalist. He was respectful of my self-identified left coast liberal views.

http://train2besafe.com/

Like Sunnyvale said, Coyote Sporting Clays is a great place to get some practice. You can get an instructor for private lesson. We did this before our Dove Hunt. It was loads of fun and helpful for the Hunt.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I took these NRA-sanctioned firearms safety classes at Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara.

I took Hunter Safety and got certification during Jr. High, part of Shop Class.
I got a 4/10 shotgun for Christmas that year, and was fanaticizing about all of the critters I was going to shoot with it, while I was wiping it down with gun oil one night in my bedroom. I didn't empty the breach when I left the woods earlier that day,
And pulled the trigger through my bedroom door, and the shot carried right down the hall. Lucky no one was in the hallway at the time.
I violated to important rules that day. Always make sure you empty the chamber, and never pull the trigger with an empty gun, as I expected it was.

It took me a long time to get that gun back.

Ruby Ridge gave me so many nightmares that every time I hear word shotgun I think of that where Feds shot a child in the back and an unarmed woman holding a baby.

What are my choices?

Remaining unarmed seems more dangerous at this point.

Patrick says

What are my choices?

Remaining unarmed seems more dangerous at this point.

Many dogs were homeless or abandoned after Katrina hit. They formed packs and roamed the city. They were hungry and stressed. They attacked people. They killed people. Some people they killed were eaten by them. Law enforcement and national guard could not be everywhere at the same time. A shotgun and some shells could save your life or the life of others.

The Loma Prieta Earthquake was a Call To Arms for me. If we had a quake with widespread destruction it could happen here with the dogs. I was lazy about it and didn't get any such PPE for decades till I got interested in hunting in recent years. But I think it's a good idea to have it.

B.A.C.A.H. says

If we had a quake with widespread destruction it could happen here with the dogs.

In that case you may be eating those dog as they try to eat you.

Isn't there a cleaner way to assassinate vaccinators and home invaders toot suite? What about the carpet and walls? I think maybe spear gun or crossbow.

One day when you go shooting, check the shot pattern on that new shotgun to see how wide the pattern is at various distances. You can change the choke to get more spread at shorter distances if desired, although there's limits to how much a choke can adjust the pattern.

26 is a pretty long barrel, which is usually what you use when you want to shoot from very far away as it concentrates the shot, instead of spreading it. I think generally one wants a shotgun to spread rapidly, making it much easier to hit targets at closer distances. That's why one reason why people saw the barrel short - so it spreads rapidly.

Right, but there are some problems with shorter barrels.

- I think it's a felony to saw off the shotgun.
- The shorter guns are much louder, per the guy at the gun store.
- Shorter guns are often not allowed at skeet ranges because of the noise.

But he said you can go to any federal land and shoot as much as you want.

Ceffer says

What about the carpet and walls?

Maybe.

Carpet and walls won't matter when it comes to that.

Like Hircus said, If you're Suburban or Urban, look under 20" barrel length. You might want to consider a "Firearm" like the Henry Axe or Black Aces Tactical Pro (in non-tactical Wood frame) anything with under an 18" barrel. Don't know if that's CA legal.