patrick.net

WineHorror1 says

Haha, so true. I "need" 3 more myself.

aint this the truth. Guns for men are like shoes for womyn, never enough, you always find something interesting.

Mossberg 500. MIl Spec and most popular Shotgun in America.

Perhaps we should not scare @Patrick by predicting future, which is that a few months after his first gun (and wife being comfortable with guns(s) at home, and enjoying a few hours every few weeks at a range), he will buy second, then third...and so on, until limit of safe capacity will be reached.

An additional benefit is that we have a situation of assured mutual destruction in arguments with my wife, with her shoe and my gun purchases.

BTW my wife has really started liking shooting semi-auto pistol we have, and is much better than I am at this.

Patrick says

12 guage shot ammo is between $1 and $2 per shot.

@Patrick, see https://ammoseek.com/ammo/12-gauge

Bd6r says

BTW my wife has really started liking shooting semi-auto pistol we have, and is much better than I am at this.

Sounds like a pretty good wife. :)

i bought one of these in the 80's...scary looking weapon,,,great deterrent. Mossberg Mdl 500A Riot Gun 12 ga SN:L033660, Short barreled pump action shotgun with pistol grip

It can become an addicting and very expensive hobby

Most recently I paid $0.56/rd for 9mm range ammo. We must be living in a pandemic or something sheesh,

If you factor in range entry, targets, and firing off 300-400 rounds over the course of a day, it adds up quickly

. komputodo says

Mossberg Mdl 500A Riot Gun 12 ga SN:L033660, Short barreled pump action shotgun with pistol grip

mildly inconvenient to shoot, I believe

Patrick, for full disclosure

I never like to hear about someone buying a gun for home defense that hasn’t been to the range and shot that gun over the course of several visits.

Point is, minimize the potential of an accident by gaining some experience first, if you haven’t already.

Common sounds good. I'll read about the Mossberg 500.

BayArea says

I never like to hear about someone buying a gun for home defense that hasn’t been to the range and shot that gun over the course of several visits.

I'm planning to visit http://www.losaltosrodandgunclub.com with the wife ASAP.

We've been skeet shooting together, but that was a long time ago.

Bd6r says

mildly inconvenient to shoot, I believe

Its scary enough to have one pointed at you I doubt you would have to pull the trigger.

I got my introduction to shotguns when one of the quarterly group activities at work when to Coyote Valley Sporting Clays. They will rent you a shotgun and sell #8 birdshot shells (for the sporting clays). You can hire an instructor, which works out to be not too expensive shared with a small group of first-timers. I'd call Coyote and ask.

Ah... the debate about defense load.

If your goal is "home" defense and you don't live on a large farm, you'll want stopping power at 10 yards. 25 yards absolute max. If your target isn't armored, you might really not want the penetrating power of 00-buck, which will go through your stucco wall, across the street, and through your neighbor's stucco wall still with some gusto. I'd suggest 28 pellets of #4 buck (which are just about 22 caliber, by the way).

3-inch and larger shells? Hardly. I'd go with the standard 2.75 and try to find "low recoil" versions, which sport slightly lower velocities but also lower recoil. At 10 yards a single well-placed shot is going to do the trick, so better to be more comfortable and able to quickly recover and fire again in case of a miss or a second target.

Pump and semi-auto shotguns allow you to add rounds to the magazine at any time the magazine isn't full. Whatever shell you added last is the next shell to go into the firing chamber, so if you shoot someone with #4-buck and then all of a sudden decide you need 00-buck, there's at least the option of adding one on-the-fly.

Buy simple guns as a newbie
Double barrel shotgun, low recoil ammo
Revolver
They're simple to maintain and operate

You can get a Mossberg 500 (and undoubtedly others) with interchangeable barrels. One reasonably priced kit comes with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 28-inch barrel. Shotguns with barrel shorter than 18 inch come under different laws. The longer barrel is considered appropriate for shooting clays and, presumably, wildlife. The shorter barrel will give you the most maneuverability inside a house and maybe a little bit more shot spread at the expense of slightly slower muzzle velocity.

An additional consideration with the Mossberg or Remington is that they are extremely popular, which means parts, upgrades, and repair expertise are readily available. I'm wondering if many other makes are parts-interchangeable with either of these two?

I'd go with a shoulder stock over a pistol grip. There are plenty of videos out there explaining how the pistol grip might be fun but isn't all that practical. But, hey, if you get the Mossberg or Remington, I'm sure you could source dozens of different 3rd-party grips if you change your mind.

komputodo says

Mossberg Mdl 500A Riot Gun 12 ga SN:L033660, Short barreled pump action shotgun with pistol grip

Hmmm.... If less than 26 inches in length, it's classified as a "short-barreled shot gun" and comes under an extra set of restrictions.

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards? One has to know one's adversary. Perhaps Patrick is less worried about BLM than a federal tactical assault team.

I'm sure I wouldn't win against the assault team. I just want to create an incentive to be left alone.

stfu says

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards? One has to know one's adversary.

Can I still get one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust

zzyzzx says

Can I still get one of these:

no, but these ones will penetrate most APC's: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/905413713

Re: shooting is expensive; 9mm ammo was not expensive a few years ago but it shot up so to speak.

I paid $10/box of 50 in Walmart a couple of years ago.

What I liked about shooting my pistols was how I need to concentrate on the task to get good results, I guess it’s relaxing to do that.

I love my CZ75, preferred by the Russian Spetznaz and Delta Force among others.

For car and concealed carry, my .380 Glock 42 is good, but it is not sold in California for some dumb reason.

Now I wanna go shooting.

#4 buckshot or

Tango load

stfu says

Will buck shot defeat kevlar or ceramic plates at 10 yards?

No kevlar or plates on the face.

A Miss or Hit with a standard shell as the first load will likely scare or disorient the target.
As you approach and have a better shot, a slug as the second round will stun even an armored target.
Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target. You would never see professional training that advocates "head shots" - it just makes good Hollywood film reels and Call of Duty experience points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPgRPRu4sho

rocketjoe79 says

Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target.

From 10 yards with a long gun? Piece of fucking cake!

Buy some pepper spray for protection against those who are not armed.

Good idea, will do.

rocketjoe79 says

Shooting for the face instead of the center of mass is always a lower percentage target.

With an 18 inch barrel 12 gauge riot gun from 10-15 feet with 00 buckshot? The chance of not stopping the target is about the same as dying from covid. And 1 second later let another round go. Then go get the mop bucket.

I'm not an expert, but I do have some interest in unusual weapons:

What do more knowledgeable people think of this?

https://topairgun.com/product/45-hatsan-hercules-bully-pcp-pellet-rifle/

I wonder if it can be left with compressed air in it? The advantage is that since it's just firing slugs, you'll never run out of propellant, and the slugs SHOULD (?) be relatively cheap. Also, I believe air guns are entirely unregulated.

That weapon is for deer and boar and it can certainly kill a man. It's subsonic (all air guns are), but it's damned cool.

@Patrick, there's a shooting range at Steven's Creek Reservoir - I believe they offer safety courses, and you should take one regardless and so should anybody that lives with you, including your wife and children no matter how uncomfortable they are with handling a weapon.

http://www.sunnyvalegunclub.com/

If you haven't taken one, even if you think it's silly, you should. When I was a kid, my grandfather and father were extremely strict with how I handled a weapon to such a degree that I'm uncomfortable pointing a TOY gun at a person. When I'm handling a gun, in my mind, it's always loaded, and it could always go off at any second so it's never pointed at anything I'm not comfortable shooting.

richwicks says

What do more knowledgeable people think of this?

https://topairgun.com/product/45-hatsan-hercules-bully-pcp-pellet-rifle/

Muzzle energy with .45 is 290 ft/lbs. This is slightly less than .380ACP and more than .38 Special fired from a pistol. Not bad but not spectacular.

If you want a gun so you have something when the show up at your door to give you your jab, you have waited too long.

Or you could act like you are OK with getting it, long enough to then grab the vial and smash it.

I bought the Rock Island AG pump, 26" 20 gauge. Just under $400 with tax, test, etc.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2020/11/9/reviewed-rock-island-armory-all-generations-pump-action-shotgun

Light enough that wife can use it, but 20 gauge still has plenty of vaxx-stopping power. Makes that classic shotgun racking sound when you rack it, which alone is valuable.

I can pick it up in 10 days.

RC2006 says

That defeats the whole purpose of having a scatter gun. Sure it will look cool, and you'll make a mess taking out one or two of the ten people running after you.
But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

Not many people will sally forth with about 3 or 4 #9 bird shot in them. With just one shot, you'll make about 5 or 6 people think better of it.

The Shot above is for taking out just one bad mother fucker, and taking that person or animal out, is all that is required. When you've got an army of baddies charging after you, you want spread and cover. You can then pull out the buck shot to pick of the wounded and those you slowed down if they keep advancing.

Like $5 a shell?

Tenpoundbass says

But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

Gun control means hitting what you aim for.

Onvacation says

Tenpoundbass says

But even bird shot which has the most shot, will make a large group of people retreat. "Stopping power, schmopping power!"

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

Gun control means hitting what you aim for.

"Aim small - miss small".

Onvacation says

When I was a kid at the hunting club, grandpa would send me out to the field with my Browning 12 gauge and a couple boxes of birdshot shells in an attempt to shoot the starlings that were eating the farmer's rice. If I could find the ones I killed we would butcher them for the tiny piece of breast meat and make them into a stew. If not, oh well.

The starling would fly in huge flocks moving together almost as one. I noticed that if I aimed at a single bird I might bring down three or four but if I just blasted at the flock I often missed.

I had a similar experience at about age 15. Worked on a friend's grandfather's farm for a couple of weeks in the "thumb" of Michigan.

His grandfather gave us shotguns and told us to shoot at any birds in the fields because they eat the grain.

The crows would recognize guns and leave in a hurry even before we shot, but the other birds would not.

I didn't really want to kill them, so aimed my shotgun slightly to the side of a bird, but killed it. That was my lesson in shot spread.

Patrick says

Recommendations for shotgun models?

Big 5 Sporting Goods carries these:

Citadel ATA12 12-Gauge Semi-Auto Sh...
(4)
4.3 out of 5 stars. 4 reviews
Citadel ATA12 12-Gauge Semi-Auto Shotgun
$329.99
Dickinson Arms 12-Ga. Defense Pump ...<...

I think a pistol caliber carbine with a suppressor is the best HD firearm. A shot gun can also be effective but you will suffer tinnitus long after you have to use it. Mossberg 500 is a good place to start when looking at a shotgun. Make sure you learn how to use it and learn not to short stroke it. Short stroking it will jam it up fast and you don't want to be dealing with that in a high stress situation.

I have several Rock Island Armory 1911s. They are good for the price. My 45 acp Commander has been a good shooter since I bought it used many years ago. I doubt you will have any serious issues with the new shotgun.

Can you take it to a gunsmith and have the barrel shortened to 16.5"? 26" of barrel is not a good thing to have in a house.

I asked, but the place did not have the Mossberg 500. I was ready to buy, so I bought anyway.