patrick.net

Cybertruck pulls about 10,000lb. in the double motor model, which has pre-sold the most. 7500 in the single motor.

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says

There's EV chargers at almost every Wawa here in Central Florida.

They have Wawa in Florida?

Booger says

They have Wawa in Florida?

They didn't have any/many about a decade ago. Now They're widespread, at least in Central Florida.

Publix Subs are still the main ingredient for "Florida Man", though.

Add in the cost factor of around $1400. For replacing tires every 11,000 miles due to the weight of a Tesla and your cost benefit analysis is greatly reduced.

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says

Cybertruck pulls about 10,000lb. in the double motor model, which has pre-sold the most. 7500 in the single motor.

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery

We'll see what the government regulates safety wise. Towing shit is a dangerous game as the average person has no clue what they're doing. They just buy a trailer or camper and throw shit in/on it with no regards to the people behind them or themselves. Overweight trailers and undersized tow vehicles fuck people up everyday. Can't go off Tesla specs until they start getting Cybertruck on the road in mass quantities.

10k pounds is likely not realistic. Batteries are heavy, but from what I've seen it's not that long of a truck. You need heavy weight up front or a longer wheel base. I don't see it towing 10k lbs. I also don't think it's being made for people that want to tow anything anyway. You'd be lucky to get 150 miles on a full charge with a legit load of even 5k lbs. Most people tow heavy stuff or a camper. It's not practical for the cost either even if it potentially could tow 10k. Gas could hit $5 and it still wouldn't make sense for the cost and time lost charging. Electric has a ways to go.

socal2 says

I am not sure about this. Tesla designed their own chips, engineered their own metal alloys, developed never before cooling systems with the "Octo-valve" and are revolutionizing manufacturing using the biggest casting machines ever built eliminating thousands of individual parts and hours of labor.

Yes, it was all engineered before them and they're doing it in house. Good for them. The 5% of work they had to do was nice as 95% of previous automotive engineers did the work for them and they copied it. No different than Apple. Doesn't make them a bad company, but they're not doing groundbreaking stuff. Musk was able to market the brand and publicly sell shares and use OPM to make himself wealthy. Business 101.

EBGuy says

Anyone else excited about the new Ford Maverick? I know, not an EV, but we could use a slight diversion. The inverters look kinda wimpy (2, 400W 110v outlets), though.

Thanks for the Ford Maverick tip. I'll need to check one out when they hit the dealers.

Booger says

They have Wawa in Florida?

We have them down here. It's apparently a destination for a gas station sandwich. If you ever hanker for that sorta thing.

Looks like somebody is getting a brand new battery:

GM announced that it has issued a recall on every single Chevy Bolt made to date due to the battery fire risk. The move comes after two previous recalls, which were aimed at specific models.

The Bolt was first recalled in November after five cars that hadn’t been in crashes caught fire. After investigating the problem further, Chevy recalled a second batch in July. The problem was traced to two manufacturing defects that could occur simultaneously. The defects—a torn anode tab and a folded separator—created conditions that could lead to a short in affected cells. So far, the company has identified 10 fires that involve faulty batteries, according to an AP report.

This third and latest recall includes 73,000 Bolts made from 2019 to 2022, the current model year, and brings the total recall to nearly 142,000 cars, with over 100,000 having been sold in the US. GM estimates that the initial recalls will cost $800 million, and it expects the new one to add $1 billion to the total. GM said it will be seeking reimbursement from LG. […]

Until replacement batteries are ready and service appointments can be scheduled, GM has recommended that Bolt owners park their vehicles outside and limit their battery’s state of charge to 90 percent or lower. The company also recommended not letting the estimated range dip below 70 miles. GM says it is working with LG Chem to ramp up production of the replacement cells.

Earlier this month, President Biden signed an executive order that sets a goal of making half of all new cars sold by 2030 electric.

more here:

https://www.consumerreports.or...oncerns-a3566085147/

WookieMan says

Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.

We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.

RandalRay says

Add in the cost factor of around $1400. For replacing tires every 11,000 miles due to the weight of a Tesla and your cost benefit analysis is greatly reduced.

What kind of Tesla do you have, or is this hearsay? I own a Model S for 4 years now. Replaced the tires twice at around 25k miles.

FuckCCP89 says

zzyzzx says

ohomen171 says

We are charged 19 cents US per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed.

At that price I hope that you are generating all or almost all of your electricity.

Believe it or not, this is considered cheap in CA.

He’s getting ripped off at 19 cents. We get billed 13.6 cents for off-peak charging from PG&E here. I also get free charge from Tesla here and there when it’s convenient.

BoomAndBustCycle says

WookieMan says

Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.

We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.

Seat covers and floor mats exists. You're not factoring in charging. Realistically if you drive the thing it needs a 220 connection outside or in the garage. Not common. If you don't think your city or municipality is watching you, wrong. Permits and fees for a licensed electrician will run you $3k in almost any muni for a 60' run and box. Everyone always gets there take. EV's are not cheaper. This has been proven.

Eric Holder says

Looks like somebody is getting a brand new battery:

My Bolt is leased and it is up in December. So I am not going to bother.

I'm thinking about leasing a Tesla for the next 3 years to make sure they got all the bugs flushed out. I get a car allowance for work and they don't want us keeping cars beyond 5 years if we get both the monthly stipend and mileage reimbursement for work travel.

WookieMan says

BoomAndBustCycle says

WookieMan says

Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.

We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.

Seat covers and floor mats exists. You're not factoring in charging. Realistically if you drive the thing it needs a 220 connection outside or in the garage. Not common. If you don't think your city or municipality is watching you, wrong. Permits and fees for a licen...

A 220V EV outlet can be installed for $375-$500 here in the Bay Area depending on which electrician you use. Permit runs another $800-$1.2k depending on the city.

I had my brother installed one for me for $26 of materials. He had some extra 6-gauge wire and a 50-amp circuit breaker. Took him a couple of hours. We went out to lunch afterward. Didn’t bother to pull permit. Got $800 EV rebate from PG&E for it.

From my experience in the last 4 years of ownership, I save about $3k/yr in fuel. My monthly car payment is $1,027 so about 3 months of car payments are paid for with the savings. I bought the 4-year maintenance package for $2.4k so $600/yr. When I had my MBZ, each service costed me between $500ish to $800ish for the first 4 years so it’s about a wash on this.

I also got $2.5k CA state rebate plus $7.5k tax credit in addition to $1k off for referral discount. Interest rate on the car is 0.99%. Have about 26 car payments left. It was a decent deal.

Ordered a 500-mile range Cybertruck a couple years ago. Once it’s here, we’ll sell wife’s MDX and we’re off the fossil fuel train.

Eman says

I bought the 4-year maintenance package for $2.4k so $600/yr.

What's there to "maintain" to the tune of $600/yr? I don't think I spend that much on maintaining my 3 gasoline burners, including tire changes.

FuckCCP89 says

Eman says

I bought the 4-year maintenance package for $2.4k so $600/yr.

What's there to "maintain" to the tune of $600/yr? I don't think I spend that much on maintaining my 3 gasoline burners, including tire changes.

I didn’t know what I didn’t know so I bought it when I bought the car new. All in all, they changed new windshield wiper blades, new battery for the key fob, new cabin filters and inspected stuff each year. That was about it. It was a learning experience

Eman says

monthly car payment is $1,027

hmmmm

B.A.C.A.H. says

hmmmm

Dude, we're on a thread where the OP bought an EV for six figures and says it's starting to make sense... Make mine a double hmmmm...

EBGuy says

we're on a thread where the OP bought an EV for six figures

And pays $600 a month for electricity.

Eman says

A 220V EV outlet can be installed for $375-$500 here in the Bay Area depending on which electrician you use. Permit runs another $800-$1.2k depending on the city.

Not a chance if you have to pipe it. Which you likely have to do. You're looking at $50/ft to do it to code. If your box is in the right place, sure $1k minimum to get someone out of bed to do the job. If someone is charging less, I wouldn't trust the work.

I have 220 four gage cable running to my double oven. Wire alone (no conduit or permit) was $400 out the gate and I did the work. You're not getting a EV charger installed without spending $3-5k unless you're lucky and bought a house from a mechanic that had a 220 line to the garage or carport. At least doing it right.

Between the markup and wiring issues to the tune of $10-30k overall, EV's don't make sense. Never have. Not sure they will. I don't like carbon emissions anyway you spin it, but dollar for dollar ICE vehicles are better.

Onvacation says

EBGuy says

we're on a thread where the OP bought an EV for six figures

And pays $600 a month for electricity.

I tracked it for 2 years to see the increase in electricity usage compared to our previous year and billing rates. All in all, it costed me $21/mo on the 1st year (13k miles driven) and $32/mo on the 2nd year (18k miles driven). Apparently, switching from the standard billing rate program to an EV billing rate program saves us money each money. Although the increased in kWh usage increased significantly, to the tune of $40-$50/mo, the actual billing increase was $21 and $32/mo, respectively.

EBGuy says

B.A.C.A.H. says

hmmmm

Dude, we're on a thread where the OP bought an EV for six figures and says it's starting to make sense... Make mine a double hmmmm...

I wouldn’t say it makes sense. To me, a hybrid is the best bang for the buck. I almost bought a Prius V by the way.

As I own a business, it’s a tax deductible. Also, I moved from a MBZ to a Tesla so the cost is about the same once we factored everything in. Once I made the switch, I know I’m not going back to another MBZ or BMW.

WookieMan says

Eman says

A 220V EV outlet can be installed for $375-$500 here in the Bay Area depending on which electrician you use. Permit runs another $800-$1.2k depending on the city.

Not a chance if you have to pipe it. Which you likely have to do. You're looking at $50/ft to do it to code. If your box is in the right place, sure $1k minimum to get someone out of bed to do the job. If someone is charging less, I wouldn't trust the work.

I have 220 four gage cable running to my double oven. Wire alone (no conduit or permit) was $400 out the gate and I did the work. You're not getting a EV charger installed without spending $3-5k unless you're lucky and bought a house from a mechanic that had a 220 line to the garage or carport. At least doing it right.

Between the markup and wiring issues to the tune of $10-30k overall, EV's don't make sense. Never have. Not sure they will. I don't li...

Well, we have 4 Tesla owners in our family and my two friends are also Tesla owners. The person who did it with permit paid $1,500 and had two 220V installed in 2016. My buddy did it without permit for $375. Wife’s siblings had it installed for $500 each in their garage without permit.

My biz partner, who lives in a condo, had it piped and ran from the main meter to his assigned parking space (about 150 feet) with permit for $5k. However, this is Palo Alto price. Probably can get it done in San Jose for $3-$3.5k.

Hey, please don't post the same image over and over.

Eman says

To me, a hybrid is the best bang for the buck.

I’ve been driving a Camry Hybrid (with all the stuff) for five years. I gotta say it’s the cheapest car to operate I can imagine. My commute isn’t bad, maybe 30 miles a day, six days a week. The tank is 14 gallons and I have to fill it every two weeks. Maintenance has been light, oil change every 10,000 miles with a more comprehensive service at 30k and 60k. Aside from the price, which was 33k, but I paid 23k for it a year old, the cost to drive has been very low. $1450 in gas a year and $75 in maintenance. Show me another car I can drive for $1500 a year?

Teslas are reportedly 40-50% more expensive to insure than comparable ICE cars. The reason is batteries in somewhat vulnerable floor and extensive use of aluminum, especially in S and X. Aluminum body panels are much more expensive to repair.

My Model Y should arrive next week. I've been waiting over 5 months since the original order.

Can't wait to get it!

FuckCCP89 says

Teslas are reportedly 40-50% more expensive to insure than comparable ICE cars. The reason is batteries in somewhat vulnerable floor and extensive use of aluminum, especially in S and X. Aluminum body panels are much more expensive to repair.

Liability only insurance...

The last time I exchanged barbs and debated Elena, I left with my pride and intellect in tatters. No wonder you bought the overpriced, impractical luxury Tesla.

Onvacation says

EBGuy says

we're on a thread where the OP bought an EV for six figures

And pays $600 a month for electricity.

I don’t know what kind of driving the OP is doing to pay $600/mo for electricity. I get free supercharging for life. Stop by, get a free charge while catching up on emails and news, or park the car there to charge while taking a 20-30 min walk or jog, or shopping at Target. Comeback, grab the car and go.

My electricity bill went up $20-$30/mo since I got the car and charge at home sometimes.

Shaman says

Eman says

To me, a hybrid is the best bang for the buck.

I’ve been driving a Camry Hybrid (with all the stuff) for five years. I gotta say it’s the cheapest car to operate I can imagine. My commute isn’t bad, maybe 30 miles a day, six days a week. The tank is 14 gallons and I have to fill it every two weeks. Maintenance has been light, oil change every 10,000 miles with a more comprehensive service at 30k and 60k. Aside from the price, which was 33k, but I paid 23k for it a year old, the cost to drive has been very low. $1450 in gas a year and $75 in maintenance. Show me another car I can drive for $1500 a year?

Hybrid got the best bang for the bucks. You forgot to include the cost of tires.

I'm going to comment on this.

I'm probably North America's foremost expert on the the digital communication standard for DC fast charging for DIN and 15518-2. I know the protocol better even the dumbshit "designers" did.

The entire design was to allow a single (and very incompetent) company to obtain a monopoly by issuing the only certificates that were allowed through the V2G protocol. The architects are either stupid, or incompetent, or both.

The whole thing is a scam. There's pie in the sky "plans" to have vehicles provide energy to the grid - this is entirely unimplemented, and since I left the industry, impossible to implement with the current protocol. I very much doubt the next protocol would implement it. The idea was that vehicles would supply energy to the grid, from IDIOTS that don't understand the discharging a battery reduces their lifespan. You damage your vehicle by doing this.

An electric vehicle is nothing more than a vehicle that is driven by natural gas / coal - they aren't better for the environment in any way. The entire thing is a scam.

There is absolutely NO WORK done in my experience to reduce pollution with electric cars, it's a fad.

The communication is done though EXI, it's a poorly defined standard, the RFC is bullshit and wrong, the actual implementation has to be done through trail and error which I did. The entire implementation is made so unnecessarily difficult to ensure a single company controls the standard. I'm absolutely DISGUSTED that corporations have such fucking STUPID people to allow this as a standard. Nobody in the industry would call these FRAUDS out but me, but my fucking company wouldn't have that. They were pussies.

And it's not workable. They will have to do a complete overhaul to fix it, and they may, but there's no fucking way I will be a part of it. Imagine taking a simple thing as communicating with a battery and making it so complex that it takes a full year to develop the protocol to talk with it, and they will just entirely change it a year later.

That was my horrible fucking job for 3 years and no matter what I told my superiors about this scam, they didn't believe me, and it was a total scam. I am so disgusted with them.

I am an expert in this system, and the people who hired me wouldn't listen to me. I'm one of maybe 100 people in the world is a complete expert in this protocol.

Well, the Tesla can do zero to 60 in four, so that could make Elena all tingly in her privates and ready for assault.

Every petty cock sucker I know that bought a Tesla 3 years ago. Is now driving a big ass expensive looking gas guzzling Mercedes SUV.\I think the general consensus is, if you pay a lot of money for it, then it's cheap on gas, even if it gets 5 miles a gallon.

WookieMan says

Time is money.

Completely agreed. If people waste time to save a few bucks, they don’t put much value on their time.

When they make a ford with a 5.4 liter engine with a 3 phase pancake motor and enough lithium storage for 50 miles, then im in. I prefer a high riding vehicle.
I had a civic hybrid...1+ liter engine and a 3 phase pancake motor.. it was nice until the battery(NiMH) starting to diminish... then it was time to sell... $3K for a battery was the killer for me.
Back to high riding vehicles.
that 3 phase pancake motor had great ability to assist from a dead stop.

Hircus says

Local weather permitting, I don't think anything can quite match the energy independence of home solar with batteries.

That is probably dependent on part of the country. Will work like a charm in CA, AZ, NM, West TX. Not so much in ND, WI. Even in our area - SE TX - it might not be ideal. My street neighbors solar batteries got whacked in a hurricane.

https://www.week.com/2022/03/03/state-farm-sues-tesla-electrical-car-fire-that-damaged-indiana-home/?source=patrick.net

State Farm sues Tesla for electrical car fire that damaged Indiana home