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Always use cash from now on, not credit cards


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2021 Sep 4, 4:36pm   7,847 views  201 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (48)   💰tip ($0.75 in tips)  

Drove to a restaurant today with my wife and was first of all creeped out to find that they knew my name from my phone number, which I had to give to get on the wait list. They said they use a centralized database of many restaurants for that.

They have a window where you can order a beer while you are waiting. So I ordered a beer and they refused to take cash.

OK, I wanted the beer, so I paid with a credit card. Then the total had an extra $1.50 on it. I asked about that and was told that I added a tip. I specifically did not add a tip because I was pissed that they don't take cash.

I got the manager and made him remove the tip.

We are rapidly approaching the CCP utopia of complete tracking of all citizens at all times.

Lesson: call ahead and make sure a restaurant will take cash. If they will not, don't go there.

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128   komputodo   2022 Aug 31, 9:36am  

Patrick says

Drove to a restaurant today with my wife and was first of all creeped out to find that they knew my name from my phone number

It's because you're famous. A celebrity. Was there Paparazzi too?
129   WookieMan   2022 Aug 31, 9:40am  

NuttBoxer says

Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.

What in the flying fuck would that do? They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it no different than a credit card. Your face exist. You're living in la la land if you think you're being stealthy.

You guys do know the bank has the number for every bill you carry when you withdraw it? I'm talking the number on the bill. Unless you earn cash payment and don't use a bank, it's all tracked. Again 100%.

I feel like I'm the crazy person. I know this stuff. I have no incentive to lie to a random internet forum. Cash is traceable and not private, unless it's peer to peer. Buy groceries with cash, I can check your receipt and know what you bought. Does every business have this capability, no. But living in fantasy land of thinking cash cannot be tracked is laughable.

This is going to be harsh. Kill a nobody, homeless person. 9 out of 10 times you'll get caught even though you don't think you would.

You can't hide your identity if you want to live in the modern world. Sure, don't join FB. I get that. But if you buy goods and services there is no privacy no matter what you do. You're playing a game you cannot win since you game out your mom's vag. No one can prove me wrong either. It's called a BC and SS number. Good luck living life without using either.
130   RWSGFY   2022 Aug 31, 9:58am  

WookieMan says

NuttBoxer says


Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.

What in the flying fuck would that do? They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it ...


Good point wrt utility bill: some water companies require a SSN (or ITIN) or "no soup for you". There is no way around it except trucking water in (and storing it where?).
131   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 10:49am  

RWSGFY says

How is this legal?


If you have a debt to someone, they have to take cash. "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."

But if you haven't received service yet, you have no debt, and they can make conditions on how you will pay.
132   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 11:02am  

mell says

Coffee, obviously as opposed to cigarettes, has been shown to prolong longevity in many studies, so it's healthy (withouts sugar). That being said, it's definitely not necessary. I like a good coffee, or 2 or 3.


I love a cup of coffee in the morning, maybe two but never three. I don't like the expense, and it's easy to overdo, but it's one of the joys of life for me.

Have to admit I like cigarettes too, but I don't actually buy any. I'll have one if other people are smoking and they offer.

I chewed nicotine gum for a year and a half but just gave that up. Was making me too twitchy. Nicotine itself is not particularly bad for you, and even has some benefits like reducing the risk of Parkinson's disease. And it increases mental focus for a while.
133   HeadSet   2022 Aug 31, 11:21am  

Patrick says


I love a cup of coffee in the morning

Do you drink it black? No? Then what you really like is hot milk and sugar. I say the same to my Bloke relatives that dilute that awesome tea they have in England.

Patrick says


Nicotine itself is not particularly bad for you

Nicotine is a chemical produced by certain plants to poison the bugs that feed off them. (Some bugs evolved immunity). That "increases mental focus" sounds like a cig giving one relief from nicotine craving to allow one the think normally.
134   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 11:44am  

I have a bit of milk or creme in in my coffee. Makes it easier to digest I think. And it literally makes it creamier.

I really like the smell of freshly ground beans, and the effect of the caffeine. I know it's a physiological trick, but it does make me more optimistic and energetic for a few hours when I hit it just right. Of course too much is a minor disaster, and interferes with sleep that night.

Caffeine also evolved as a pesticide, like nicotine. But that doesn't mean it's poisonous to humans in low doses.

I never got to the point with nicotine gum where I had any withdrawal from it. Just one or two pieces a day, and easy to give up with no problem.

If you don't believe me about the mental focus thing, you can prove it for yourself.

http://dengulenegl.dk/English/Nicotine.html
136   Onvacation   2022 Aug 31, 5:01pm  

Fiat currency is not money, but it works like it, for now.

Bitcoin is not money, but people make fiat on it, for now.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Are you willing to trade this for that?

People don't understand the value of real money. Things like cigarettes, chocolate, and bullets; real money.
137   Onvacation   2022 Aug 31, 5:04pm  

I'm sure they edited out all the people that said, "Hell yeah I want the silver bar. The coin shop over there will give me a couple grand$".
138   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:25pm  

WookieMan says

They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.


Which is why I said don't use an app..? Never mentioned turning anything off, that's all you. But yes, you can 100% guarantee something is off, just need the right level of control. For a cellphone you'd need something like Graphene OS. My laptop has HW shut-offs for speakers, mic, and wifi. But laptops have always been ahead due to amount of control easily available for those who choose to take it. Even when it comes to Windows OS, By using Pihole and running some powershell commands, I was able to neuter most of their data collection.

WookieMan says

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it no different than a credit card. Your face exist. You're living in la la land if you think you're being stealthy.


You start by saying you haven't given up, then proceed to tell everyone to give up. Make up your mind.
I don't own property. I use my social security almost never, because I don't live on credit. My DL doesn't have my real address. My utility bill doesn't have my real name. Again, no mortgage. Yes, they did pull my credit for rent, so as I've said before, if you're so right, should be easy to expose who I am. Feel free to.

WookieMan says

You guys do know the bank has the number for every bill you carry when you withdraw it? I'm talking the number on the bill. Unless you earn cash payment and don't use a bank, it's all tracked. Again 100%.


There isn't a single person on this forum, now or ever, who will be important enough to warrant that kind of tracking. That's like thinking they send a forensics team out for a stolen car.

WookieMan says

But if you buy goods and services there is no privacy no matter what you do.


My CSA's don't know who I am, pay with cash. My online purchases all use a fake name, and throw-away card. So do my utility bills.

You have an opinion, and a little experience, yet you parade yourself as an expert on the subject, seriously? Prove it, IDENTIFY ME. Should be trivial right? Until you can give us some concrete evidence, you have only theory. Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone.
139   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:38pm  

RWSGFY says

Good point wrt utility bill: some water companies require a SSN (or ITIN) or "no soup for you".


Internet/cable was able to get around this by signing up for auto-pay, then cancelling right away. Electric I did give a social, but not mine, and not someone else's(there is another option).
140   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 5:42pm  

@NuttBoxer what is this other option?
141   Eric Holder   2022 Aug 31, 5:47pm  

NuttBoxer says


My CSA's don't know who I am, pay with cash. My online purchases all use a fake name, and throw-away card. So do my utility bills.

You have an opinion, and a little experience, yet you parade yourself as an expert on the subject, seriously? Prove it, IDENTIFY ME. Should be trivial right? Until you can give us some concrete evidence, you have only theory. Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone.


Eh? He can't identify you, but you can't identify him either. Proves nothing.
142   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:50pm  

There's a SS number that was created for a department store back in the 50's. It doesn't tie to any real person, and seems to fool most companies asking for it. DO NOT use with government, they will likely know it's a fake. But power companies aren't government. It's in Luna's book, and the book has a lot of other good tips and practical info, and it's pretty cheap. So I'd like to push some sales his way.
143   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 5:54pm  

NuttBoxer says

It's in Luna's book


Thanks @NuttBoxer do you have a link to the book? I'm interested in buying it, preferably not from Amazon unless there are no other options.
145   Onvacation   2022 Aug 31, 6:11pm  

NuttBoxer says

Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone

They're both a little weaselly.
146   WookieMan   2022 Aug 31, 6:34pm  

Onvacation says

NuttBoxer says


Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone

They're both a little weaselly.

I'd agree. I think we can all agree Covid was bull shit anyway. \\

NuttBoxer says

There's a SS number that was created for a department store back in the 50's. It doesn't tie to any real person, and seems to fool most companies asking for it. DO NOT use with government, they will likely know it's a fake. But power companies aren't government.

Flat out fraud either way. Play your games if it makes you feel good. Kind of a waste of time. Seems like you've put a lot into this. Unless you're doing illegal shit, it's a complete waste of time. Can make more in an hour than most can in a week, so I don't have time for shit like this. Good for you if you think it works. It doesn't.
147   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Aug 31, 6:50pm  

NuttBoxer says

There's a SS number that was created for a department store back in the 50's. It doesn't tie to any real person, and seems to fool most companies asking for it. DO NOT use with government, they will likely know it's a fake. But power companies aren't government. It's in Luna's book, and the book has a lot of other good tips and practical info, and it's pretty cheap. So I'd like to push some sales his way.


oh whats the trick? im interested
148   RWSGFY   2022 Aug 31, 7:36pm  

NuttBoxer says

There's a SS number that was created for a department store back in the 50's. It doesn't tie to any real person, and seems to fool most companies asking for it. DO NOT use with government, they will likely know it's a fake. But power companies aren't government. It's in Luna's book, and the book has a lot of other good tips and practical info, and it's pretty cheap. So I'd like to push some sales his way.


What happens if there are TWO smartasses in the same water district and their db checks for duplicate ssns?
149   B.A.C.A.H.   2022 Aug 31, 7:46pm  

I called the credit card company and asked if I could buy a new car with the credit card. (Not to finance the purchase, - just to get the "cash back".)

Credit card company's answer: "Yes".

It was only after the purchase agreement was finalized that I told the dealer I'd be paying by credit card. They said the maximum I could apply to the purchase amount by credit card was $2500.
150   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 8:03pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says

They said the maximum I could apply to the purchase amount by credit card was $2500.


Thanks, always good to hear what the real limits are.
151   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 1, 9:19am  

Patrick says

Thanks @NuttBoxer do you have a link to the book? I'm interested in buying it, preferably not from Amazon unless there are no other options.


I've purchased from abebooks.com in the past. They specialize in used and rare books, decent service. And yes, the title is How to be Invisible. I think 2nd edition is most current. There are also lots of pdf's online, but I think it's worth a purchase. Focus is physical privacy however. Tech privacy gets very little attention, though there is a chapter devoted to it. Still, the concepts are foundational to any privacy vector you want to pursue.
152   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 1, 9:21am  

WookieMan says

Good for you if you think it works. It doesn't. Blah blah blah, I'm too lazy to prove my easily provable point.


That last was added by me, but c'mon man. How can we take you seriously when you can't provide data on any of us, despite claiming how simple it is to do.
153   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 1, 9:22am  

WookieMan says

Flat out fraud either way.


Nope. There are court cases backing our right to privacy. As long as the intent is not financial gain, but purely privacy.
154   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 1, 9:31am  

RWSGFY says

What happens if there are TWO smartasses in the same water district and their db checks for duplicate ssns?


I'm fairly certain unique identifier for the table is going to be account number, not social. But I would guess you wouldn't get approved. I also had to send in a paystub to prove identity. But since everything is emailed, that was easy enough to update the name. OpenOffice Draw works great for pdf editing.

I do have SDGE, which I believe services all of SoCal. Find it hard to believe between SD and LA at least one other person isn't doing this.
155   Eric Holder   2022 Sep 1, 12:00pm  

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

What happens if there are TWO smartasses in the same water district and their db checks for duplicate ssns?

I'm fairly certain unique identifier for the table is going to be account number, not social


Using social as a unique ID is frowned upon, true, but it doesn't mean data is not checked at the time of the new record's creation. Then there is all kind of "data cleanup" activities which regularly turn up all kinds of duplicates.
158   WookieMan   2022 Sep 4, 5:01am  

Eric Holder says

Using social as a unique ID is frowned upon, true, but it doesn't mean data is not checked at the time of the new record's creation.

Exactly. And it's still a crime to use someone else's SSN as has been implied

https://sites.google.com/realhumboldt.com/welcome-home/apply/applicants-faq/is-it-illegal-to-use-someone-elses-social-security-number (sorry, google)

You miss payments on an electric bill and it hurts someone else's credit because you used their SSN. Out the gate it's illegal if they're deceased and you're using it as well. Federal and likely most states. Honestly it's just a dick move to use someone else's SSN even if they agree and you paid them. You're taking advantage of someone else.

Just because there are books on it doesn't mean they're not profiteering either. AKA making shit up. You can ghost write all you want, to collect sales income from the book and be legal with the IRS they NEED your actual information. So writing a book about privacy is hypocritical from the word go. A non-fiction label means dick. It's a classic industry to extract money from people with no truth behind it.

And shit, didn't think of this. If you've got kids in public school they need proof of residency. Out of district residency fees are usually insane. My district it's $10k a kid if you "claim" you don't live where you do. We dealt with it and the principle was okay calling my nephew homeless after we explained the situation. If everything is linked to another location you'll be paying hefty out of district fees. You gonna make up your kids names too?

At some point the effort put into privacy is an exercise in diminishing returns. You're wasting your time and money.
159   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 5, 11:39am  

WookieMan says


Exactly. And it's still a crime to use someone else's SSN as has been implied


More important, if you don't know who the social belongs to, you could draw unwanted attention by using one that belongs to someone who has a criminal record. But the SSN I mentioned does not belong to anyone.

The link provided brings up some good points, but they all pertain to credit situations, not privacy situations. You should pay cash whenever possible, which eliminates the need to ever give a social. In a situation I listed, it's about privacy. The utility company does not have the right to know who I am, especially because they will share that information without my consent. I am not giving them an alternative identity to avoid paying my bill, to gain additional discounts, or to otherwise defraud them in any way. I am not stealing anyone's identity, as the social I use was never issued to a real person.''

WookieMan says


to collect sales income from the book and be legal with the IRS they NEED your actual information.


Which is exactly what the author says to do. If you read the book, you'd see multiple places where he says not to break the law, and multiple places where he lists legal ways to maintaining your privacy. Seems like you could stand to do some research in this area, rather than arm-chair QB'ing.

WookieMan says


And shit, didn't think of this. If you've got kids in public school they need proof of residency.


Really? Because I did, way before we ever bought this book. Something everyone who lives in San Diego knows, is many of us really live in Tijuana. But in order to attend schools, and conduct business on the US side, they maintain a ghost address here in the US. It's usually the address of a relative, although it could also be a UPS box. When we briefly lived in Tijuana, we used both. But my daughters no longer attend public school, and never will again in this state.

Interested in the author's take? He agrees with you. He says if you're kids are in public school, you will have a very hard time maintaining privacy.

WookieMan says


You're wasting your time and money.


I've spent around $50 a year for years for a VPN. The book cost me less than $20. The mailbox I rent costs $30 a month. That's it. Time has definitely been the bigger investment initially, but as I've learned how to maintain privacy, it's become second nature.

You have no proof, only opinion, and without that, how you can expect anyone to take you seriously? I have proof it's working because I can't use most major internet services(paypal, amazon, linkedin), because I won't identify myself. I can't purchase online from Walmart, and in many cases, can't even access websites because of my VPN and pihole. My credit union recently started failing to resolve my DNS request because of the VPN. When a local music store needed to run my credit for an instrument rental, I had to give them my Arizona address for the check to succeed.

Seems lots of places don't know who I am. I'm not saying you couldn't find out, but it would cost you a PI fee, and hopefully one bigger than you'd be willing to spend. And that's the point. To make it enough of a hassle, that most people wanting to sue me, or do any other harm, will give up, and that the government, should I ever falsely be accused of a crime(happens ALL THE TIME), will be delayed enough that I can hire a good lawyer and be prepared to prove my innocence well before they ever get to me.

You know who my lifestyle of privacy is most in common with @WookieMan? LEO's. When I ask to protect privacy, that is the most common group schools, and other places associate me with. Because it's something LEO's have to do all the time. And they're not above the law, but just like me, they know privacy is not illegal.
161   AmericanKulak   2022 Sep 9, 3:49pm  

International Standards Organization approves tracking of Firearms, Democrats continue to pressure Credit Card companies to report all firearm and ammo transactions.

https://archive.ph/8IXDx
162   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 10, 1:19am  

AmericanKulak says

Democrats continue to pressure Credit Card companies to report all firearm and ammo transactions.


Because there's not a federal background check that's run every time you purchase a gun? If you don't want tracking, don't buy from a gun store.
163   AmericanKulak   2022 Sep 10, 2:47am  

There's supposed to be deletion from the Fed Background Check (we're finding - SHOCK - this isn't the case) after a period of time.

However, if Visa/MC/Amex keeps track, there is no law prohibiting them from keeping the info together.
164   NuttBoxer   2022 Sep 10, 9:35am  

I appreciate the sentiment, but laws under corrupt government are about as good as campaign promises. Only you can protect your privacy.
166   Patrick   2022 Sep 19, 9:06pm  

https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/central-bank-digital-currencies-are


Central Bank Digital Currencies are the Bullet Train to Digital Concentration Camps
“If you can move every human into a digital concentration camp, empty their bank account any time you want, and tell them what they can and cannot spend money on, you've got complete control."

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