patrick.net

Robert Sproul says

The War on Cash is the onramp to CBDC which will be Total Control, an on/off switch for your life.
We are very close now and they will use any and all future 'catastrophes' to further their goals. UBI will be the bribe to get all the plebes on board.

Don't get me wrong. Use cash. I still have cash. It just doesn't pay me anything when I'm holding it physically though. I'll tip with cash so the person doesn't pay taxes on that income to be a nice person, so I do use it. Have to go to an ATM or your bank to get it. And your bank can cut you off as easily as a CC company could (usually a bank). So what's the difference?

I guess that's the part of the discussion I don't understand. If shit hits the fan I'll need food, water and guns. I won't need dollars and obviously wouldn't need a credit card. Both are useless. When times are good, I'll keep using the CC and paying it off each month and making money swiping a plastic card for things I need.

Technically you cash guys are subsidizing my points as you're paying the same price as I am. And as I said, privacy be damned. We ALL are way too far down the rabbit hole to think we have privacy no matter how hard we try. Not even the Amish have privacy because they still own the land.

WookieMan says

Technically you cash guys are subsidizing my points

Actually, it's the poor fools that don't pay off their balance every month with an usurious interest rate that pays for your "points". You get 5% cashback and the fool pays 22% interest. Credit companies call us people that pay off our balance monthly "deadbeats".

Having said that I collect about $500/year from my Costco credit card rewards.

richwicks says

You are still pretending we don't have a dual justice system. There it is, right in front of you. Where's your outrage? I'm tired of this shit. Do you believe in the rule of law? Well, nobody fucking does apparently. I'm in the tiny tiny fucking minority. I do. Not that my corrupt criminal government will enforce it.

I just experienced it a couple weeks back. Chucked a beer at a car and did damage. Police report and all. Wasn't arrested. Why? I was white. Car driver black (didn't know or even see her). And the cop was trying to pin it on the Puerto Ricans that called the cops because their kid (and mine) almost got ran over.

So yes, there for sure are different layers to the system/government. We're not in disagreement there. I'm in the good boys club and got away with a drunk dumb decision.

My nephew is black. I've seen him treated differently than my kids. Using a CC versus cash though is trivial in the grand scheme of things. There are much bigger problems. Try to stay private I suppose, but I've been in the belly of the beast. Facial recognition is the death of privacy. It's already happening and they already have your face if you drive a car via a license. The battle is over dude. I'm not saying you don't have valid points, just that it's beyond what you think. Even at the municipal level. I fully aware of the reach of government. I'm in it and my wife works with it.

We can go pitch fork and torches, but it won't do much if anything at all. I just play the game as I've got one life and if I'm being honest, I don't really care about death. I'm just going to enjoy it and not overthink it too much. We've existed for a long time. Will there be a shit hits the fan moment? Maybe. In our lifetime? Unlikely.

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Technically you cash guys are subsidizing my points

Actually, it's the poor fools that don't pay off their balance every month with an usurious interest rate that pays for your "points". You get 5% cashback and the fool pays 22% interest. Credit companies call us people that pay off our balance monthly "deadbeats".

Having said that I collect about $500/year from my Costco credit card rewards.

This is 100% true. That's where most of it comes from. But prices are marked up for the CC transaction fees for the cash payers as well. Say a 12 pack of beer is $9.50 at a gas station. They price it at $10 to account for CC fees they pay. I swipe and pay it off each month. The cash person buying that beer gave me money in a twisted way really.

Keep collecting the rewards. You're obviously in CA from your posts so travel probably isn't a huge priority and you have a boat. At the current moment, I'd go for gas savings. I don't pay out of pocket for gas, but my fill ups went from $70 to $110-120 now. About 2 times a month. Not huge money, but if you can get tax free points/money it's worth it (if you pay it off).

IL is suspending sales taxes on grocery sales tax and the MFT (gas tax) right now. No fucking clue how that revenue gets made up. We're entering an interesting time. I don't really know how this resolves itself.

WookieMan says

We ALL are way too far down the rabbit hole to think we have privacy no matter how hard we try.

Agreed! Trying to hide focuses their attention on you.

I still like using cash. I use the credit card for gas, internet buys, and travel.

Scott McNealy, former CEO of Sun, had a saying:

"It's not about privacy anymore. You don't have privacy. It's about equality of exposure."

All these things they use to spy on us can and should be used to spy on and publish the personal details of the oligarchs.

WookieMan says

Cash is a bitch to deal with in a fair like setting. Especially urban. People fumbling around with it and then the threat of thieves for the people taking it.

These aren't fair specific issues. Just say you don't like freed.. err using cash. Also, I have been robbed online, but never, ever in person. And I've never dropped or lost money, at least not enough to ever notice. But I have had my bank card stolen. Just saying...

WookieMan says

As discussed I give zero shit about my privacy freedom. I recently had my Amex hacked/charged fraudulently and it was gone in 24 hours. Happened again and it's gone again. If someone defrauds robs me in person with cash I have almost no recourse and the money is gone. I get the perspective of people wanting to use cash, but I get paid to use credit. Pay it off in the grace period and you get tax free money with points. I spend 5 minutes a month and probably get back $7-10k/yr. Maybe more. Not a bad ROI time wise.

Is anything in this world free, ever? What are you trading for your credit card incentives? Your freedom.

WookieMan says

I'll beat you out of the store 10 out of 10 times and get paid for it.

Card doesn't read, machine doesn't work, system down. In all these cases you won't just be slower, you'll be unable to purchase anything.

Also, skimming your card and using it isn't that hard. Yes, you get reimbursed when you report it, but someone pays. It's an economic drain that must be filled by printing more money.

I often get discounts at places when I pay cash because it saves the business money. That's instant, in my hands that day.

Do you never frequent local business's who won't or can't afford the credit mafia charge fees? There's not many, but they are out there. You do care about your local economy right?

U get back 7 to 10 k ? What card r u using? Most pay 2 % back Discover has 5% quaterly

WookieMan says

Have to go to an ATM or your bank to get it. And your bank can cut you off as easily as a CC company could (usually a bank). So what's the difference?

Yes, this is why you need physical possession of your assets, and why gold and silver are the only real money. But at least you should have an emergency fund on hand that does require a trip to the bank.

Long term though, we all need to get out of this system that requires we accept Federal Debt Notes as wages.

WookieMan says

We ALL are way too far down the rabbit hole to think we have privacy no matter how hard we try.

I believe I've invited you before to contact me directly with any personal info you can find on me. Should be easy right? Just contact @Patrick to have the results emailed to me, or post them here. Yes, I'm that confident my privacy/freedom is well protected.

NuttBoxer says

I often get discounts at places when I pay cash because it saves the business money. That's instant, in my hands that day.

This is the one and only reason to pay cash. They cheat on taxes when they get cash, so kickback is due. No cash discount - no cash.

Eric Holder says

This is the one and only reason to pay cash. They cheat on taxes when they get cash, so kickback is due. No cash discount - no cash.

And that's a bad thing? I do sometimes request a cash discount in lieu of using my credit card.

Onvacation says

Eric Holder says

This is the one and only reason to pay cash. They cheat on taxes when they get cash, so kickback is due. No cash discount - no cash.

And that's a bad thing? I do sometimes request a cash discount in lieu of using my credit card.

Cash discount - good thing. No cash discount - bad thing - no cash for them. It's not like I'm paying the same price if I use a CC - I get 2-5% discount for it, so they better beat it with their cash discount offer.

Robert Sproul says

The War on Cash is the onramp to CBDC which will be Total Control, an on/off switch for your life.
We are very close now and they will use any and all future 'catastrophes' to further their goals. UBI will be the bribe to get all the plebes on board.

original link

Richar Werner kicks ass. He had an excellent feature on how Japan was brought to its knees in the late 80's. This video is well worth watching. The central bankers have been practicing how to subjugate nations for over 30 years. When he says they've on the cusp of achieving total domination, believe him, because he was there with a frontline seat.

Link to video "Princes of the Yen":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY&feature=youtu.be

Apologies for the badtube. The only other option is Vimeo. If the latter is preferable, I'll edit the link. Better yet, if someone knows how to embed, I'd appreciate it.

Onvacation says

And that's a bad thing? I do sometimes request a cash discount in lieu of using my credit card.

The biggest cash discounts are usually at the doctors. Not having to go through insurance saves them a ton of money.

NuttBoxer says

I'm that confident my privacy/freedom is well protected.

@NuttBoxer What do you do about government requests for address that do not accept PO boxes, like your driver's license?

This is well known by those of us who have lived in Tijuana, a UPS or Postal Annex box have the look of a physical address.

My car insurance did lookup the address, and requested another one, which I gave them. But no one else has any issue with it. This includes the IRS, California DMV, and DHS(we have Sentri).

But to rephrase a section of Luna's book, if they have unlimited money and resources, they will find you. So if the government were ever to take an active interest in me, it would not be too hard. But for the rest of you, it will never be worth the time and expense, so you'll never find me.

Patrick says

What do you do about government requests for address that do not accept PO boxes, like your driver's license?

My CDL has a PO box for an address. I lived on my boat for a couple of years and had my official address as my PO box in Oakland. I was required to give the DMV the address of my marina and my slip number. I have moved my boat twice since then but my official address, according to DMV, is still my PO box.

NuttBoxer says

This is well known by those of us who have lived in Tijuana, a UPS or Postal Annex box have the look of a physical address.

I don't understand. What does Tijuana have to do with a UPS box? And don't you have to give ID with a real address to UPS to get the box? So then there's a trail to where you really are.

This is a good point to ponder. While many of us assume government's data collection prevents privacy, it's really our data sharing that does it, to ourselves. Most of their programs are quite passive, and rely heavily on user compliance to work.

As I've said before, we are building the prison ourselves, not them. So stop building it.

Jesus, we'll argue this when we finally meet at some point. Privacy was gone eons ago. Not talking the last 5 years. 2000 and earlier it was gone. Most of you guys are techies and don't really understand how far the reach is. A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.

The game of trying to stay private is over, has been for a while. You guys don't have to listen to me, but I'm 100% right. The game is already over. I've said it before, if you want to mess things up you need to cause confusion. Not try to hide. Put out as much BS information about yourself as you can.

Either way we're living 1984. Just need to know how to play the game. Hiding makes you a target.

Patrick says

Also, I don't do Starbucks. So them going cashless moves ME in zero ways. Frankly I don't hang out with anyone that goes to Starbucks. Not a joke. Over priced shit full of diabetes #sugar.

This seems to be untrue according to Starbucks

BayArea's photo at https://patrick.net/post/1341082/2021-09-04-always-use-cash-from-now-on-not-credit?start=90#comment-1873058 looks pretty convincing.

WookieMan says

The game is already over. I've said it before, if you want to mess things up you need to cause confusion. Not try to hide. Put out as much BS information about yourself as you can.

The game is never over. I agree that putting out BS information is good, but it is also possible to minimize your footprint.

Give them cash and say, "keep the change". I bet they take your cash

i prefer cash, they can’t track my habits and make decisions to manipulate me

Yes, and even better than Federal Reserve Notes which become worthless over time would be silver coins.

The Starbucks picture above was sent to me by my brother. I had assumed he personally took the pic.

I inquired today where he got it. He said it was not a picture he took but a pic that was taken from the internet.

It looks like it may not be real.

https://twitter.com/StarbucksUK/status/1564576677782605827?cxt=HHwWhsC-8d2Mv7YrAAAA

We will know on Oct 1st for sure.

WookieMan says

Jesus, we'll argue this when we finally meet at some point. Privacy was gone eons ago. Not talking the last 5 years. 2000 and earlier it was gone. Most of you guys are techies and don't really understand how far the reach is. A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.

I'm a techie.

We aren't at the point yet where your individual transactions can be tracked.

That's OPT-IN. If you chose to do business with a company that only accepts credit cards, you're inviting your slavery. Cameras recording the location of your car, you can't opt out of that.

There's a huge difference, and if you don't recognize that and just give up, well, fuck you.

I will never go to a store that is "non-cash-only". I was at a coffee shop that wouldn't accept cash and only told me after I ordered, and I made it very clear to them, I will never return here again, I have a $10 bill here, if you don't want it, that's fine. I got a free coffee, even after I explained I would never return - and I never will return.

I expect Starbucks to survive, after all, they make terrible quality coffee that they mask with tons of sugar. It's truly some of the worst coffee on the planet. Their marketing is that they are "upscale" and that convinced vacant idiots that have never had actual coffee before that it's better - because they saw it on teeeeveeee - it must be true. Their GOD wouldn't lie to them, would it?

Go get a black coffee from Starbucks and another at 7/11 - you tell me which is less drinkable. Seriously. Denny's makes better coffee than Starbucks.

The WHOLE point of cash, is a statement of: "I'm totally giving your permission to tell the government to go get fucked!" Small businesses recognize this with a wink and a nod.

Did I just order a pizza, or did the ingredients for that pizza go bad and have to be thrown out? WHO KNOWS? Like it's any of this FUCKING government's business.

Fuck coffee!

Seriously… put that nasty, dehydrating, shit-breath causing, expensive, jitter causing poison aside and have some water for gawd’s sake.

Coffee and cigarettes, ugh

My wife and I both came to the realization that coffee has no place in our household, no benefit to us (only expense, inconvenience, and jitters), quitting cold turkey.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. Put the chains out of business.

BayArea says

Fuck coffee!

Seriously… put that nasty, dehydrating, shit-breath causing, expensive, jitter causing poison aside and have some water for gawd’s sake.

Coffee and cigarettes, ugh

My wife and I both came to the realization that coffee has no place in our household, no benefit to us (only expense, inconvenience, and jitters), quitting cold turkey.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. Put the chains out of business.

Coffee, obviously as opposed to cigarettes, has been shown to prolong longevity in many studies, so it's healthy (withouts sugar). That being said, it's definitely not necessary. I like a good coffee, or 2 or 3.

WookieMan says

A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.

Not my home address, and I always have my visor down now, so not my face. And if I wanted to put out the cash, not even my name if I add my vehicle to an LLC. Just because you don't understand how to fight for privacy, doesn't mean the rest of us should give up.

As I've mentioned before, outside of a few lost cause restaurants during the Scamdemic, all places that say cashless still take Federal reserve dollars. Seriously doubting Starbucks will go full payment tracking. Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.