patrick.net

Depending on your budget, I'd go for this...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/94100-Overseas-Hwy-Tavernier-FL-33070/2068475508_zpid/?source=patrick.net

I'm not considering anything in Florida that isn't at least 20 feet above sea level and at least a few miles from the coast. Actually northeast or at least Northern Florida is my target area right now.

I'll never get all this, but I have had this list for a while:

want to be able to WALK to friends' and relatives' houses
reasonable neighbors
view of ocean
relatively quiet neighborhood; hang out overnight before buying to see
low crime, therefore a probably white or asian area
no leafblowers allowed in neighborhood, or too far to smell and hear them
nowhere near the fire station because i don't want to hear sirens all the time
not too far from a major airport so we can travel
some garden space
wind! clean air in neighborhood, no smoke; check purpleair.com
flat driveway, no slope
no lead paint, no lead in soil
no structural problems, no termites, no pesticides
second floor porch or balcony with a swing
cupola
good pipes to main sewer, never clogs
good electrical, modern, no aluminum wires, 200A min, not 100A like old houses
can walk all the way around the house
two floors, good exercise
minimum two bathrooms
10' ceiling downstairs
strong hot shower with wide marble walls
strong fan for the bathroom to reduce humidity
heated bathroom floor
heated mirror in bathroom so there is no fogging (saw this in japan)
many hooks in the bathroom
house smells ok
if central air, vents that close absolutely, not only partly, so air can be forced to specific part of house
vent to outdoors for gas stove if there is a gas stove
all windows must open
big windows on sunrise side
wood floors, wood panelling
laundry chute
door handles, not slippy doorknobs

No swimming pool! Ten hours of maintenance for every hour of use plus high power bills. Never again!

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

Onvacation says

No swimming pool! Ten hours of maintenance for every hour of use plus high power bills. Never again!

That's why I want a plunge pool or a hot tub that I won't heat in the summer. I would not buy a house that had a normal sized pool.

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

Normal even in northern Florida:

zzyzzx says

No basement or crawlspace.

Where do you find a basement in Florida? That's super rare, and usually because they built up a large berm in their yard. Then they have the basement level half or quarter sunk in the ground. They are half sunken two story houses more than a house with a basement.
The issue I would have with basements, would be flooding. It's not like you can open the door and sweep the water out.

zzyzzx says

Too many trees. Dealing with that at the GF's house. Constant maintenance item there because of this.

I think the type of tree is important to consider, anytime you plant a tree. The RE Bubble of the 2000's had the awful unintended consequences, of adding optics and some Science to Global warming. Everyone cleared their lots of any plant taller than a blade of grass. And it gave South Florida 15 years of drought. We're just getting back to typical South Florida weather patterns. Where you can expect a quick thunder shower every day during the Summer. Trees should be mandatory, but should come with hard and fast rules on how, where and what is planted. Every city should have a Botanist, and Arborist employed in their staff, that is just active as the Building inspectors.
I posted on Patnet, years ago a Study from the early 30's, by a scientist in Coral Gables, that led to all of the Banyon and Ficus trees in Coral Gables, and all of the live oaks, and large canopy trees that South Florida was once famous for. He said that if they were planted(Then they were) it would keep the neighborhoods, and areas under dense canopy about 20 degrees cooler.(And it did) than the open areas in the direct sun. It also creates cool breezes, and helped promote summer showers. Everything the report said would be beneficial, turned out to work as planned. I saw it first hand when I first moved down here in 1985, then saw the effect it had when it was reversed. Thankfully people are putting Trees back on their properties, and lush landscaping isn't a crime anymore, due to the drought. Which is another gripe for another battle. But I will say, not watering your plants, and letting them all die, and forbidding more plants from being planted. Is the worst thing you can do, to battle long term drought.

Patrick says

no leaf blowers allowed in neighborhood, or too far to smell and hear them
nowhere near the fire station because i don't want to hear sirens all the time

That's the best thing about Hurricane windows, it kills loud outside noises. You don't hear shit outside. Any noise you do hear, will be so loud, it was permeating through the roof. Like a Helicopter hovering near by.

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

I don't know of a single municipality that doesn't require a pool to be fenced in. Maybe above ground out in the country. Also get additional coverage for the pool. I think we have $2M. We've had two sketchy incidences, but everyone was fine. If your parent/guardian isn't at my house, you ain't getting in my pool is the rule. Just because it's someone else's pool doesn't mean you don't have to parent. It's worked for 8 years so far.

I'm easy to please with houses, but maybe a bit high priced on finishes.

Kitchen:
- Has to have a double oven
- Pot filler would be nice

Master Bath & Other Baths:
- Big shower with steam
- Double sinks (obviously)
- 3.5 total

Living Room:
- Wood burning fireplace

Whole House:
- Speakers in every room controlled by phone.
- Pool (with heater)
- Hot Tub
- Outdoor Kitchen
- Nat gas for grill and fire pit (to start)
- Outdoor yard speakers
- Sprinkler system for lawn (yes it gets dry in IL)
- Clear cedar on any surface that makes sense
- FLW eves that are 3-5' off the house. Prairie style/MCM combo
- Fenced yard
- CCTV recording system
- Theater room (basement)
- Drum/music room (basement)

That's just a start. CA is probably different on pool maintenance. We're closed half the year, so costs are not too bad here in IL if you cover the pool when open. Keeps it warm and keeps leaves and other shit out of the pool. My biggest issues with pools is the staying on top of it. I found the time to be minor, but if you travel you have to plan well to make sure the son of a bitch doesn't go south while you're gone. Assuming good weather I spend 5-10min a day taking care of it and we use it almost daily most summers. I don't find it to be that big of a burden unless you let it go, which happens.

Tenpoundbass says

zzyzzx says

No basement or crawlspace.

Where do you find a basement in Florida? That's super rare, and usually because they built up a large berm in their yard. Then they have the basement level half or quarter sunk in the ground. They are half sunken two story houses more than a house with a basement.
The issue I would have with basements, would be flooding. It's not like you can open the door and sweep the water out.

Florida typically has no basement or no crawlspace. There is no excuse not to elevate a house (especially in Florida, where there is often a hurricane flood risk) and a normal sized crawl space is usually enough to do this. It's just common sense in a flood zone AND having piping exposed for easy maintenance. So if a pipe breaks are you going to have your floor torn up or have tunnels dug under your house to fix a pipe? That's messed up! The cost to do this meets ($10K, at least) makes putting in a crawlspace financially viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL7lPvwJC4c&source=patrick.net

Except for mobile homes, I don't see crawlspaces in Florida much, but there is no real reason not to, except for maybe higher initial cost.

zzyzzx says

Except for mobile homes, I don't see crawlspaces in Florida much, but there is no real reason not to, except for maybe higher initial cost.

All of the Art Deco period houses, and houses built pre 1950, that were build with Dade Pine, walls and floors, have crawl spaces.

one that is payed for

Patrick says

I'll never get all this, but I have had this list for a while:

want to be able to WALK to friends' and relatives' houses
reasonable neighbors
view of ocean
relatively quiet neighborhood; hang out overnight before buying to see
low crime, therefore a probably white or asian area
no leafblowers allowed in neighborhood, or too far to smell and hear them
nowhere near the fire station because i don't want to hear sirens all the time
not too far from a major airport so we can travel
some garden space
wind! clean air in neighborhood, no smoke; check purpleair.com

We were fortunate to get most of this on the house we bought in 2011 in Carlsbad. We are never leaving! Can't believe how stupidly expensive houses in our neighborhood are going for now.

The house I bought has everything we were looking for, except for a huge kitchen, or an adequate kitchen for that matter.

But now that we've paid the house off. Eventually I would like close in half of our huge screened in patio. And make a large kitchen there, and knock out the window and take out the backdoor leading to the patio from our Kitchen. But then I don't know what I would do with the wall that runs parallel with that back wall, that separates the kitchen from our Livingroom. I would like to incorporate that kitchen space then into the Living room. But I don't want to gut the house and make an open floorspace, like so many idiots do.

The house we rented from 1999 to 20010 when we bought our house. After we left the Land lady's boyfriend, knocked out all of the internal walls and ceiling, from the living part of the house, for an open floor plan. Yes he ruined a 1940's art deco house. Now 11 years later I drove by the other day and noticed the roof is now sagging in the middle.

WookieMan says

- Drum/music room (basement)

So you're a Drummer? We should have a Patnet jam one day, with all of the patnet musicians.

What nobody wants secret bunker? Lol

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

Fencing around your backyard is enough for liability protection, no need for additional fence around the pool. We used to have both but torn down the pool fence when kids got out of diapers - ins co didn't make a peep.

If your backyard is open - then you'll have to either have a fence around the pool or a special cover, capable of supporting a person on top of it.

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools.

I grew up in a home in San Jose with a swimming pool. What a freaking stupid sh*t waste of my parents' money.

The weather in this region is mild. We didn't have a/c because we didn't need it. (still live in the area and don't have a/c). We kids would use the pool occasionally, but my parents made us do all the maintenance. My dad would use the pool all by himself, mainly I think to save face to himself.

He was the first resident in the housing tract to get a pool put in. Living out his Mr. Braddock (The Graduate) fantasy with the freaking outdoor pool. When neighbors saw the contractors coming in and out they copied and did the same thing. One neighbor only put in an above-ground pool ("doughboy"). I remember my mom and her gossipy friends talking of it with a bit of derision. But they were the smart ones; that doughboy was easy and cheap to undo.

These were leisure times of one-parent-at-home (mostly, the wives) before the decline in our standard of living which sent moms to the workplace in decades to come. The neighborhood had rotating backyard barbecue-pool parties, sort of like in The Graduate. There was one swinging couple who had a custom-built pool that was built into exotic landscaping and included an adjacent hot tub. Besides the more sedate neighborhood pool parties, they hosted some parties with a different social circle that were rumored to be orgies. Next door was a straight-laced Mormon family who'd call the police about it sometimes. My friend, one of the Mormon kids, about ten years old at the time, confirmed the rumors to me by sharing what he saw when he peered through a fence knothole. He said we should come over and watch sometime, but we never did. Once at our pool it "just happened" that the woman lost her top when diving from the diving board.

I would say, most of the neighbor kids and my siblings and me were ambivalent about the freaking pool, like the Dustin Hoffman character in the movie. Whole (mild) summers would go by where we might use the pool five or so times. We were kids, we liked playing in the street, playing pickup ballgames at the local schoolyard, and spending hours at basketball hoops perched on the edges of roofs above the garage doors. The pools were all manifestations of dads living out their mid-life-crisis egos. I suppose there weren't enough backyard barbecue pool parties in the entire decade or so of this "life" to rationalize the high cost of the stupid freaking pool installations... so say nothing of the added utility bills and interest payments (since most of them were financed). The savings of not having a pool could have paid for summers of the most elaborate, catered-with-live-entertainment block parties. Sheesh.

Really f*cking stupid to have the pool when my mom doesn't even know how to swim. You ever see an adult who doesn't know how to swim, in the deep water? I've seen it a few times with a few adults. They freaking panic and flail with the fear of death in their faces.

One day when I was about seven years old my sibling and I were goofing off in the pool. I began laughing while swimming and just about drowned. I was an excellent swimmer already at that age, even swam in open water. So this was a freak accident. Laughing while swimming, I began taking in water. I sank to the bottom and had an out of body experience watching my rescue. This was in three feet of water. My mom, an adult-non-swimmer being so afraid of the water panicked and shrieked. The neighbor man heard her, jumped over the fence and rescued me. (My dad wasn't home at the time). I think I am the only person I know who nearly died laughing. That incident should have taught my parents a lesson about how f*cking stupid backyard pools are. But it didn't.

One by one, as the homes were sold, the backyard pools were demolished and filled as part of the sale. It reminded me of my own shopping for a home in the 1980's, when the seller's realtors would tell us how the backyard pools "added value" to the home. Bullsh*t. The pool was a deal breaker for any home I looked at.

In my parents' neighborhood, I'd say less than half of the pools remain. This is probably similar in other parts of San Jose. My parents are elderly and still have that dumb f*cking piece of sh*t in their backyard. I wish they didn't because I am concerned they may trip and fall and drown.

B.A.C.A.H. says

My dad would use the pool all by himself, mainly I think to save face to himself.

I have to do a lot of that, I think as a Father and a Husband most of us do at one time or another. Not the pool but other things.

That was a great read, about the genesis of the Suburbs, and the neighborhood lifestyle back then. Today, the only way anyone knows a neighbor has a pool or not, is to Google Earth. I haven't stepped foot in any neighbors house, or their backyard, in the 11 years I've been here now.

People's priorities do change, and so do neighborhoods. People want less space and easy maintenance as they get older. Main living area 2000 square feet on an easy maintenance lot but with reasonable privacy. I like to play music loud, so I would need an insulated room for that and home theater without people in neighborhood objecting, so possibly a garage size separate building for that.

Main things for us would be: single story, convenient shopping, services amenities etc. within walking distance, good nature walkways and paths for exercise, thee car garage, no upstairs plumbing, large french doors inside for moving things around, wide halls, hospitals and emergency rooms close by, low crime, highest insulation, large propane tank, backup generator, solar power, potential plot for a victory garden/greenhouses to grow some food if necessary, adequate storage, conservative, cooperative people that you can band with for emergencies and count on.

I don't like having lots of service personnel around, unless they are at arm's length and are managed by a third party.

Paid for is the ideal house. No debt, minimum maintenance, in a location where government is minimal and designed to preserve and defend life, liberty and property.

B.A.C.A.H. says

One neighbor only put in a "doughboy". I remember my mom and her gossipy friends talking of it with a bit of derision. But they were the smart ones; that doughboy was easy and cheap to undo.

What is that?

Booger says

B.A.C.A.H. says

One neighbor only put in a "doughboy". I remember my mom and her gossipy friends talking of it with a bit of derision. But they were the smart ones; that doughboy was easy and cheap to undo.

What is that?

Dipping pool maybe?

B.A.C.A.H. says

I would say, most of the neighbor kids and my siblings and me were ambivalent about the freaking pool

My kids are pretty ambivalent about it in general (they are competitive swimmers, so they are in an olympic-sized pool every day twice a day), but neighborhood kids are showing up and demand a pool party from my kids almost every weekend from early April to late September. Then their parents order pizza delivery and it's pandemonium for several hours. =))

I swim in it only on very hot days.

Community pools (and sports/tennis courts) are great, but they come with HOA fees. Totally worth it in our case, really well maintained minus the liability.

Booger says

What is that?

Booger, thank you for pointing out my use of a local catchword-buzzword from the 1960's-70's. That's what we called the above-ground pools with the metal siding and plastic liner.

I changed it.

Eric Holder says

My kids are pretty ambivalent about it in general (they are competitive swimmers, so they are in an olympic-sized pool every day twice a day)

Yes. My kids also. I live walking distance to my folks' house.

The grandparents were always trying to entice my kids over to use their pool. My kids couldn't care less about it, swimming miles per day at school.

Sheesh.

Concrete/Brick/Steel. No more Ticky Tack 2x4 shacks.

Patrick says

view of ocean

Before I had my current house built in 2014, I had planned on a waterfront home. I decided against that when I took my daughter to a friend's house that was located on a beautiful oceanfront lot. I had a long conversation with the dad, and he told me that although the view, breezes and ambiance were excellent, the saltwater air corroded practically anything metal. Bicycles, cars, tools, and even metal poles or other parts of the house seriously rusted.

Patrick says

view of ocean

Which you will enjoy for the first month then after that, you might notice the view 2 or 3 times a year.

komputodo says

Patrick says

view of ocean

Whish you will enjoy for the first month then after that, you might notice the view 2 or 3 times a year.

Also, the glare of the sun off the water during sunrise or sunset can be harsh.

Patrick says

view of ocean

Get a place on a lake. It's wonderful in the summer, but in winter, it's just a flat surface where the wind blows.

Lakes are only available in the north, or you'll be next to an artificial one in the south. Artificial lakes suck, they are just mud pits. During winter, go south, or literally anywhere else. If you intend to close the house down, you'll have to learn how to entirely drain pipes and cut off power which isn't that difficult, but you do NOT want to fuck that up. Not only will you blow out the pipes of any water, you also cut off the water supply, because if you make a mistake, and pipe bursts, it's going to be a swimming pool when you return.

richwicks says

Lakes are only available in the north, or you'll be next to an artificial one in the south. Artificial lakes suck, they are just mud pits.

You have must not have seen Virginia's Smith Mountain Lake, Lake Gaston, or Kerr/Buggs Island Lake. These are very large reservoirs (ie, 50,000 acres and over 800 mile coastline) with very clean water and good fishing, skiing, etc.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Booger, thank you for pointing out my use of a local catchword-buzzword from the 1960's-70's.

Don't know where you're from, but in LA, above ground hard sided pools (membrane in round sheet metal frame) were in the 70s, and still can be known as "Doughboys."

RC2006 says

What nobody wants secret bunker? Lol

My dream house I'll never afford is an iceberg house. I'm retiring some day on mountain ridge land, so I picture one, maybe 2 below ground levels, with a relatively small unassuming looking surface building, probably made to blend in with the color and profile of the hills, instead of rectilinear. I'd want shit-tons of storage, at least 2 work spaces, one for cars and heavy work like metal and wood and auto shop, another for art and electronics type work.

I'd have at least 2 areas as autonomous as I can from the house at large, to facilitate AirBNB income stream. My own living and working quarters, plus the rest of the 23 acres, would be private from the rental parts. I'd put in adequate data cables and conduits from the beginning to minimize work and disruption when upgrading/adding/expanding device count. Same with outdoors around it, trench in conduits and pipes anticipating where they'll be useful one time initially, and not dig shit up again and again as it gets developed over the years.

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

Yup, it's considered an attractive nuisance, and the fence is hedging your bets that the kid won't get in, and you'll be shielded if he does and drowns provided the fence and gate meet certain requirements. Some jurisdictions go further requiring a wave alarm also.

Tenpoundbass says

the Land lady's boyfriend, knocked out all of the internal walls and ceiling,

My old giant asshole neighbor redid the interior of his house to make a tiny baby room when his wife was expecting. (She divorced his ass before the kid was one, he got to keep the house SHE grew up in, wtf!) Anyway, he was telling this boastful and self-aggrandizing story of all the big work he was doing on his house. He was talking about removing the interior walls and I was all whoa aren't some of them load-bearing? He was all NO, in a singsong way before continuing his story. A few sentences later, "And the WEIRDEST thing, the whole ceiling started coming down! But, those walls weren't load bearing!"



HeadSet says

although the view, breezes and ambiance were excellent, the saltwater air corroded practically anything metal.

Can confirm. Had a longtime customer who lived RIGHT on the Strand in Redondo Beach. 6 lane road, 50 foot bluff, 200-ish yards of sand, and there was the ocean with steady wind blowing salt spray in. He ALWAYS parked on the away side of the street where his house or apt was. ALL the chrome plating was bulging with underlying corrosion and metal surfaces on the driver side of his car were rusting, or if not steel, showing salt bloom. The passenger side was shiny with regular washing and waxing.

That wind can be relentless and brutal off the water, making it hard to stay outside for more than a few minutes. Same with the desert.

mell says

Community pools (and sports/tennis courts) are great, but they come with HOA fees. Totally worth it in our case,

I'd avoid most HOAs like the plague, for my lifestyle.

zzyzzx says

Patrick says

Also big legal liability for swimming pools. If you don't fence it in and some kid drowns, you are screwed.

Normal even in northern Florida:

Shit, that’s to keep the gators out.

My ideal house is surrounded by 20 acres of property I own on a South Pacific island. It's a small island that tourists don't visit. Completely self-sustaining. I have my own well, and house runs on a combination of solar and propane(found on the island). We have crops, livestock, and my extended family lives on the property in their own homes. The house is more of a construct to keep out rain, mostly open to the outdoors. Inland so you can't see it from the ocean(no beachfront thanks). Everything is built using native materials, all natural.

ForcedTQ says

Shit, that’s to keep the gators out.

I always thought they were for skeeters?

HeadSet says

the saltwater air corroded practically anything metal. Bicycles, cars, tools, and even metal poles or other parts of the house seriously rusted.

I can vouch for that given my beach front condo in Maui. The lani/patio is about 15 steps from the water. You have to keep up with the corrosion. Eats TVs, light fixtures, on and on.

Given what I've seen at families properties in S. Texas on the Gulf of Mexico where it's much worse (due to more humidity?) I would expect Florida to be way worse.

Maybe someone from FL could tell me if that pool screen is for skeeters?