patrick.net

Or, Russia is partially China's bitch by necessity, and Biden is China's complete Bitch due to bribery and evidence of that bribery the Chinese possess.

China makes Russia a partially dependent state and guarantees itself oil and gas and coal and uranium from Russia in abundance. If Russia shows signs of independence, China suddenly starts cooperating with the West's sanctions until Russia ceases.

Russia gets a guaranteed outlet for energy and cash, along with access to the World's Factory.

China "North Koreanizes" Russia in return for a no-NATO and/or control of Ukraine.

Putin goes along with it because for historical reasons, he feels it's less humilating to be China's half-bitch than owned by Wall Street entirely down to the last nickel mine.

The other great advantage is that China can use it's half-bitch Russia to distract Europeans when it wants Aksai Chin or Taiwan.

JUST LIKE IT USES NORTH KOREA TO PESTER THE US AND JAPAN when it doesn't like what is happening, or needs to harass the US or Japan as a distraction. Always offering to be a go-between, of course.

Eric Holder says

My rule of reading is simple: once I encounter a false assertion about something I know for sure, I quit reading and it goes into trash. Because there is no telling about the veracity of the rest of it.

"Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus."

Patrick says

It is very hard to predict whether or when the people of the West will start to wake up and realise what has been happening to the world they imagine themselves to inhabit. For many years, for sundry reasons, their governments have been working assiduously to transform their societies from democracies to fascist dictatorships properly defined: power cartels of government and corporations with a view to total control. To achieve these ends, they have rotated the political left 180 degrees so that it now, without even knowing it, represents the interests of the greediest and most ruthless forces on earth. While demonising any residual voice of opposition as ‘far right’, these neo-fascist governments are prepared to deal with any bunch of extremists thugs from left or right in order to achieve their primary aim of subjugating and terrorising their populations. Now, they think to present themselves again as champions of democracy.

But the democratic West no longer exists, in any...

100% Correct.

Trudeau literally froze the bank accounts of peaceful protesters a week ago, with lots of rough handling. Some are in prison, no doubt the persecutors searched the law codes for something to charge them with, or some precedence to charge them with a more common violation based on an obscure case from 100 years ago.

In the USA, the guy who moved Pelosi's lecturn will get 60 days on top of the countless days he's served, plus $5000 fine, and of course his lawyer's fees.

Another 1/6 protester just killed himself.

The two deaths from police on 1/6, and two secret investigations vindicated both officers involved, the details hidden behind locked cabinets and banned from the public.

I tend to doubt Putin ever took any actual vaccines for Covid, which spells a bit of disinformation trying to discredit his frame of mind. He would have been too savvy about the falsity of the plandemic, much less vaccine dementia affecting him.
It is also likely that Russia has its share of oligarchs who are in on the Ukraine caper, just like the American politicians, so they would have the same motivations to smear any dislodging of the corrupt system in Ukraine. That would mean 'PutinBad' just like 'OrangeManBad'.

I doubt Putin is crazy, and he does not sound the least bit crazy when he speaks, even in translation. A true crazy person would not be able to disguise it. The 'crazy' cipher also spells a source eager to smear and is an overwrought accusation. I remember when Trump announced he would run for Pres, the press immediately saddled him with the 'crazy' moniker over and over. I had never payed much attention to Trump, but the crazy accusations are one of the first things I remember about the press not passing the smell test.

As for the nuclear trigger, all the usual corrupt characters latch on to ANY fear totem that allows room for manipulating the populace, even if it is adventitious.

I also don't see adopting a 'negotiating posture' is a sign of losing. Rather, it is admitted that the invasion has distinct goals that fall far short of entirely conquering Ukraine under the boot. I think that having a combination of ongoing military threat is simply the best way to HAVE a negotiating posture, since historically, Putin has noted that the West never negotiated in good faith without some kind of threat.

Only a moron negotiates in good faith without some kind of threat.

Y'know, like John Kerry.

Ceffer says

I doubt Putin is crazy, and he does not sound the least bit crazy when he speaks, even in translation.

I agree. Putin has all his marbles, and started with more than Biden to begin with. Biden is clearly missing a few.

Of course Putin is a thug and will have people killed for political reasons, but I think that's par for the course as leader of Russia. They were all like that.

China thinks it's the natural world order for all to present themselves and trembling obey the Vermillion Throne of the Middle Kingdom, the arbiter between Earth and the Heavens.

In history, China usually has been #1 until the 1600-1700s in Tech, Population, Wealth, Development, etc.

They want that #1 status back. Europe and Russia bothered with each other leaves them free in operate against India in the Himalayas and Taiwan and Japan.

China would love another Cold War, since neither side could afford to piss off China. Russia for the oil customer and products, The West for the products where almost everything is outsourced to.

Amazon and Walmart would collapse in weeks without Chinese products to sell, most of their inventory. And we don't have the machines to make the machines, sure, we make the missile guidance system at home, but everything from the fan that cools that CPU to the board it sits on and the plastic housing for it, all comes from either China or Taiwan. We don't have the people or machinery to restore the manufacturing, we're back to 1880 where we have to make the machine that makes the machine that makes the machine that can make the products and nobody remembers how to build or organize the factories that make them. We sold it all to China in the 90s and 2000s. It's all subcontracted out to various firms in China. All the US Execs do is specify the dimensions and provide the blueprints, make sure the samples are up to design specs. Few of them know anything about actually making it.

Thanks, Outsourcing!
\

AmericanKulak says

China would love another Cold War, since neither side could afford to piss off China. Russia for the oil customer and products, The West for the products where almost everything is outsourced to.

Illuminati Card Game China Card:

Must watch: Ukrainian MP says the Quiet Part out loud to US Media:

"We not only fight for Ukraine, but for this New World Order."
https://nitter.pussthecat.org/SavingAmerica4U/status/1498275582819319811?source=patrick.net#m

Booger says

They would have gone to war anyway. They don't need a real reason

Like protecting our freedoms by stopping communism in vietnam or Iraq's weapons of mass destruction or knocking down your own twin towers?

Patrick says

Of course Putin is a thug and will have people killed for political reasons, but I think that's par for the course as leader of Russia.

You're just saying that Putin is a maniac and a thug that will kill people for his political jollies, ONLY because OUR media has brainwashed you to believe that without any evidence what so ever. And to deflect and project, what the sickos in our State department, have been doing for years and years. We had our reasons to mother of all bomb ISIS, and we all cheered like it was a proud moment. When has Putin released such a diabolical weapon on anyone?
Nothing about this so called invasion looks like a War declaration from one of the top three super powers in the world. It barely has the optics of a Civil skirmish between two waring Canadian biker gangs.
Then to top that off, we're only allowed to hear our Western take on the events. RT and all Russian State media has been banned and silenced on YouTube and other outlets, so now the we're at the mercy of OUR Propaganda apparatus to mansplain the situation to us, absence of any Russian perspective of the events.

But I'll stick with the hard reality of the lack of evidence, still for the last week, I personally have not seen one single evidence that there is a large scale invasion from Russia, he might be stirring the pot, and backing the separatists with hardware, but then again so are we. This is just a good old fashioned Proxy war, but this time, the media is trying to brainwash us all into believing that it is a full Russian assault with Putin leading the charge on rusty tank with Z spray painted on it.

Tenpoundbass says

But I'll stick with the hard reality of the lack of evidence, still for the last week, I personally have not seen one single evidence that there is a large scale invasion from Russia, he might be stirring the pot, and backing the separatists with hardware, but then again so are we. This is just a good old fashioned Proxy war, but this time, the media is trying to brainwash us all into believing that it is a full Russian assault with Putin leading the charge on rusty tank with Z spray painted on it.

Yep. 5000 Russian Dead?

That's more than D-Day on all beaches. It's more deaths than the US had during the first two months of the Tet Offensive. It's half the Allied deaths in the two week battle of El-Alamein between the Brits and Rommel that involved 100k's of troops and 1000s of tanks and vehicles and arty in the open desert.

I don't buy it.

I've had cams on all day from Kiev, which is supposedly surrounded by Russians at the same time the Russians are stopped cold just over the border. Once or twice every half hour, I hear one or two booms. If the fighting was the scale of Tet, which covered the house-to-house fighting at Hue City, attacks on US Embassy, ARVN HQs in Saigon, etc. we'd be hearing booms several times a minute at least.

This whole thing reeks of BS from top to bottom.

AmericanKulak says

Yep. 5000 Russian Dead?

If there were 5,000 dead, where's the video of 50,000 soldiers being assaulted by the heroic Ukrainians? Western media would have loved that footage, it would be Pulitzer material.

So, will it or will it not? The suspense is killing me.

Eric Holder says

So, will it or will it not? The suspense is killing me.

According to a lot of patnetters, russians will never invade. But if they did, ukrsine will be finished in 96 hours.

Bd6r says

Patrick says

Putin is building a new civilisation, based on Christianity, tradition, nationhood

That is not correct. He is a head of mafia state, after being part of mob in st petersburg. Does carpetbombing of chechen civilians count as Christianity? Does enriching himself counts as Christianity?

Well, I'm not much of a Christian, but those things sound good to me.

So now the question is whether out own government is more or less of a mafia than Russia's government. I think you could make a strong argument that America is worse in many ways, particularly in foreign policy.

Note by Al-Nusra Chechens:

Ельцин покрыл позором русскую армию в Чечне. Путин опозорил русскую армию в Украине. Китай удовлетворен увиденным. Желтые человечки готовятся осваивать новые территории

Translation:

Yeltsin ashamed the Russian army in Chechnya. Putin has dishonored the Russian army in Ukraine. China is satisfied with what he sees. Yellow men are preparing to explore new territories

AmericanKulak says

5000 Russian Dead?

Of course, an overestimate and propaganda, as is normal in war. Sergeant Petrenko saw Russians shooting 200 children and women in hospital and singlehandedly killed 500 occupiers with his AK-47, before dying as a hero.

However, the order of magnitude for Russian dead is correct. May be 2000 or 3000, but it is a lot still. It is comparable to losses in Armenia-Azerbaijan war, where in 1.5 months about 2500 were killed from each side. Ukrainian conflict is an order of magnitude larger, same weapons are used, so a few thousand Russian dead make sense.

Bd6r says

AmericanKulak says

5000 Russian Dead?

Of course, an overestimate and propaganda, as is normal in war. Sergeant Petrenko saw Russians shooting 200 children and women in hospital and singlehandedly killed 500 occupiers with his AK-47, before dying as a hero.

However, the order of magnitude for Russian dead is correct. May be 2000 or 3000, but it is a lot still. It is comparable to losses in Armenia-Azerbaijan war, where in 1.5 months about 2500 were killed from each side. Ukrainian conflict is an order of magnitude larger, same weapons are used, so a few thousand Russian dead make sense.

They lost ~1000 in one day during the first Chechen war and then their enemy did not have anywhere near the amount of heavy stuff the Ukies have. So there is nothing unusual about losing couple of thou in several days for the Russian army. Hell, they managed to lose 300 fuckers in two hours when they decided to attack US Army Rangers at some refinery in 2017.

Patrick says

Kind of hard to read any news at all then.

https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/?source=patrick.net

It's not news, it's propaganda.

I spent years trying reading the "news" wondering to myself "well, they can't be INTENTIONALLY lying, otherwise they'd lose their entire readership" - only to realize I was their readership. Our news media is propaganda, and it's trolling propaganda. Go read the comments to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2aqF974GMo&source=patrick.net

It's just people calling them out on their bullshit. That's who bothers to pay attention to our news media at this point. That's the readership.

And if you cannot comment on it, or you're censored by the "news" media, you're reading propaganda. You work in the same dumb ass field that I do, how many times have you read a news article about an area YOU were personally involved in only to realize it was a fluff piece OR it was just outright bullshit? That's EVERYTHING, not just what we personally know about.

I think that it's a complete waste of time to pay attention to "authoritative sources", and even independent ones make lots of errors, but at least (generally) they aren't just lying about what they are reporting on - they're just making genuine mistakes.

2017 peace: HE’LL
2018 peace: GET
2019 peace: US
2020 peace: NUKED!

2022 war: “The adults are back in control and nuclear power Russia fears and respects Biden”

Greta yelled at them.
So the leaders of the West shut down their energy production.
So now they depend on Russian oil and gas.
So now they can ban Russian vodka, but not oil and gas.
So lovely.

Ron Paul's site seems to be under attack. Can anyone load this?

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/february/28/it-all-comes-back-to-nato/?mc_cid=1396e7e4be&source=patrick.net

Patrick says

Ron Paul's site seems to be under attack. Can anyone load this?

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/february/28/it-all-comes-back-to-nato/?mc_cid=1396e7e4be&source=patrick.net

Nope, just hangs. Hmmmm

richwicks says

I spent years trying reading the "news" wondering to myself "well, they can't be INTENTIONALLY lying, otherwise they'd lose their entire readership" - only to realize I was their readership. Our news media is propaganda, and it's trolling propaganda. Go read the comments to this video:

It also exists to demoralize those who know better and see through it.

Article after article on Sanctions, but almost no mention of the Russia-China gas and oil trade or that China happily sells anything and everything to Russia.

To lazy to nitter:
https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1498312171159228421?s=20&t=UBDIerH4Duwc1VEY2yixIQ&source=patrick.net

Ah, if I remove that mc_cid from the url, it loads. Not sure what that was about. Here's the text of it just in case:

When the Bush Administration announced in 2008 that Ukraine and Georgia would be eligible for NATO membership, I knew it was a terrible idea. Nearly two decades after the end of both the Warsaw Pact and the Cold War, expanding NATO made no sense. NATO itself made no sense.

Explaining my “no” vote on a bill to endorse the expansion, I said at the time:
NATO is an organization whose purpose ended with the end of its Warsaw Pact adversary… This current round of NATO expansion is a political reward to governments in Georgia and Ukraine that came to power as a result of US-supported revolutions, the so-called Orange Revolution and Rose Revolution.

Providing US military guarantees to Ukraine and Georgia can only further strain our military. This NATO expansion may well involve the US military in conflicts unrelated to our national interest…
Unfortunately, as we have seen this past week, my fears have come true. One does not need to approve of Russia’s military actions to analyze its stated motivation: NATO membership for Ukraine was a red line it was not willing to see crossed. As we find ourselves at risk of a terrible escalation, we should remind ourselves that it didn’t have to happen this way. There was no advantage to the United States to expand and threaten to expand NATO to Russia’s doorstep. There is no way to argue that we are any safer for it.

NATO itself was a huge mistake.

When in 1949 the US Senate initially voted on the NATO treaty, Sen. Roberg Taft – known as “Mr. Republican” – gave an excellent speech on why he voted against creating NATO.

Explaining his “no” vote, Taft said:
… the treaty is a part of a much larger program by which we arm all these nations against Russia… A joint military program has already been made… It thus becomes an offensive and defensive military alliance against Russia. I believe our foreign policy should be aimed primarily at security and peace, and I believe such an alliance is more likely to produce war than peace.
Taft continued:
If we undertake to arm all the nations around Russia…and Russia sees itself ringed about gradually by so-called defensive arms from Norway and Denmark to Turkey and Greece, it may form a different opinion. It may decide that the arming of western Europe, regardless of its present purpose, looks to an attack upon Russia. Its view may be unreasonable, and I think it is. But from the Russian standpoint it may not seem unreasonable. They may well decide that if war is the certain result, that war might better occur now rather than after the arming of Europe is completed…
How right he was.

NATO went off the rails long before 2008, however. The North Atlantic Treaty was signed on April 4, 1949 and by the start of the Korean War just over a year later, NATO was very much involved in the military operation of the war in Asia, not Europe!

NATO's purpose was stated to "guarantee the safety and freedom of its members by political and military means." It is a job not well done!

I believe as strongly today as I did back in my 2008 House Floor speech that, “NATO should be disbanded, not expanded.” In the meantime, expansion should be off the table. The risks do not outweigh the benefits!

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/february/28/it-all-comes-back-to-nato/

AmericanKulak says

It also exists to demoralize those who know better and see through it.

I think that phase is largely over. Nobody believes the media any more.

Russia had perfectly good relations with most NATO countries. Ukraine and Georgia never issued any claims to any Russian territory. Russia also never filed any official territorial disputes with Ukraine or Georgia and has signed many treaties confirming the same over the years in the 90s and early 80s How the fuck one goes from zero claims to "we want a half of your country" in a blink of an eye? Unless they never intended to settle anything legally and diplomatically and were just lying in wait for an opportunity to present itself, that is.

It's not about territory.

It's about neighbors joining a hostile Alliance.

AmericanKulak says

It's not about territory.

It's about neighbors joining a hostile Alliance.

I've asked this question before but never got a cogent answer, so I'll ask it again: which political party in any European country was ever in the last 20 running on a platform of waging an aggressive war against Russia, let alone winning a significant majority? Germany, Italy, France, Poland, Hungary, Baltic states? I don't think so.

Moreover, Germany let its military go to complete shit, Netherlands got rid of all their tanks, and most of the NATO countries weren't spending nearly enough to cover their meager 2% obligations.

So I don't think it's Europe. Who's left? US? Who ran on attacking Russia? Bush senior, with his famous "Chicken Kiev" speech urging Ukraine to stay in the USSR? Clinton who started the process of stripping Russia's neighbors of all strategic weaponry?

Bush junior, who "looked into Putin's eyes and seen his beautiful soul", did nothing to react to invasion of Georgia invasion, etc.?

Obama, who started "reset", removed last remaining of Uranium and Plutonium from Ukraine, removed most of missile defense from Europe and generally presided over decline of NATO? Obama who pretended he didn't see new Rusdian ICBM and cruise missiles violating INF Treaty being deployed in Europe?

Trump who ran on the platform of having good relationships with Russia and reducing any foreign involvement?


All of the above, who collectively reduced US troops in Europe ftom 500K to less than 1/10 of that?

Why the fuck somebody who is plotting to attack somebody else would reduce their own capabilities, reduce the number of troops and equipment, disarm their own potential allies, pretend not to see jow their adversary violates treaties in order to improve their attack capabilities, etc.?

Everything I listed above are clear and verifyable facts proving the exact opposite of the assertion that "NATO was aggressive towards Russia". If anything NATO was a fucking shrinking violet wrt anything Russia-related. And it made itself highly economically dependable on Russia which is again an exact opposite if what somebody planning an attack does.

RWSGFY says

All of the above, who collectively reduced US troops in Europe ftom 500K to less than 1/10 of that?

Name a base that was closed. Name one, if it's been reduced to 10%.

Jesus Christ on a Stick, we just had 5 years of "Russia hacked our election" - what do you think all the PROPAGANDA was about?

The West has been vilifying and attacking Russia for 20 fucking years now.

richwicks says

RWSGFY says

All of the above, who collectively reduced US troops in Europe ftom 500K to less than 1/10 of that?

Name a base that was closed. Name one, if it's been reduced to 10%.
<

Changing topic much? The number of US troops in Europe is a known entity. Prove the total is still at 500K it was in the early 90s. You can't. Why? Because it's fucking reported as agreed in Helskinki in 1975. So if the number of US troops were not what we are saying it is Russia would point it out. But they never did.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

RWSGFY says

All of the above, who collectively reduced US troops in Europe ftom 500K to less than 1/10 of that?

Name a base that was closed. Name one, if it's been reduced to 10%.
<

Changing topic much?

No. I don't believe the claim, and I'm posting a reason I don't believe the claim.

Western news media was infiltrated by Operation Mockingbird 45 years ago. That was revealed in the Church Committee. Any claim made by our government or it's propaganda arm, the "free press" should be questioned.

We are ALL victims of propaganda to varying degrees. The difference between propaganda and the truth, is that the truth is entirely consistent, lies RARELY are.

richwicks says

Name a base that was closed. Name one,

Taylor barracks in Mannheim (I was in Mannheim a few yrs ago right before covid).

I think they have closed a few dozen sites in Europe, but stopped closing sites in 2021.

richwicks says

Name a base that was closed. Name one, if it's been reduced to 10%.

I can do better: I can name bases reduced 100% since 1990.

Let's start from US bases in Germany only and see if it satisfies you:

Name Location Disposition Year Notes

97th General Hospital/Clark Kaserne Frankfurt reported to become the American Consulate
Aartal Kaserne Herborn-Seelbach closed 1992
Abrams Complex Frankfurt closed 1995
Anderson Barracks Dexheim closed 2008
Andrews Barracks Berlin closed 1994
Argonner Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Armstrong Kaserne Büdingen closed 2007
Artillery Kaserne Neckarsulm closed 1991
Aschaffenburg Local Training Area Aschaffenburg closed 2007
Askren Manors Housing Area Schweinfurt closed 2014
Atterberry Kaserne Frankfurt closed 2003
Augsburg US Army Installations Augsburg closed 1998
Ayers Kaserne Butzbach-Kirch-Göns closed 1997
Azbill Barracks Rüsselsheim closed 1993
Babenhausen Kaserne Babenhausen closed 2007
Bad Aibling Station Bad Aibling closed 2004
Badenerhof Kaserne Heilbronn closed 1991
Bamberg Local Training Area Bamberg closed 2014
Beeskowdamm Compound Berlin closed 1994
Benjamin Franklin Village Mannheim closed 2012
Betts Kaserne Frankfurt 97 Gen Hosp Barracks and Family Housing
Bismarck Kaserne Schwäbisch Gmünd closed 1991
Bitburg Air Base Bitburg closed 1994
Butzbach Kaserne Butzbach closed 2008
Cambrai-Fritsch Kaserne Darmstadt closed 2008
Campbell Barracks Heidelberg closed 2013 this was USAREUR (US ARmy EURope) HQ
Camp Grohn Bremen returned to German government now the campus of Jacobs University
Camp King Oberursel closed 1995 ceremonial closing 1993, actual closing in 1995
Camp Pieri Wiesbaden-Dotzheim closed c. 1993
Camp Pitman Weiden i.d.OPf. closed 1989
Carl Schurz Kaserne Bremerhaven closed 1993 named for Carl Schurz
Christensen Barracks Bindlach closed 1992
Coffey Barracks Ludwigsburg closed 1991
Coleman Kaserne Gelnhausen closed 2007
Conn Barracks Schweinfurt closed 2014
Cooke Barracks Göppingen closed 1991
Cramerton Housing Area Augsburg closed 1998
Daley Barracks Bad Kissingen closed 1995 housing area remained until 2005
DEH Compound Berlin closed 1994
Detachment Meissner Hoher Meißner closed 1990s early 1990s
Dolan Barracks Schwäbisch Hall closed 1993
Doughboy City MOUT Berlin closed 1994 demolished mid-1990s
Downs Kaserne Fulda closed 1993 or 1994
Dragoner Kaserne Mainz closed 1992
Drake Kaserne Frankfurt closed 1992
Dueppel Housing Area Berlin closed 1994
Edwards Kaserne Frankfurt closed 1992
Emery Barracks Würzburg closed 1990
Ernst Ludwig Kaserne Darmstadt closed 1996 demolished 2002
Faulenberg Kaserne Würzburg closed 2008
Ferris Barracks Erlangen closed 1994
Feucht Army Airfield Nuremberg closed 1992
Finthen Army Airfield Mainz closed 1992
Fiori Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
Fischbach Army Depot Fischbach bei Dahn closed 1992
Flak Kaserne Augsburg closed 1990s
Flak-Kaserne Ludwigsburg Ludwigsburg closed 1991
Fliegerhorst Airfield Kaserne Hanau closed 2007
Flint Kaserne Bad Tölz closed 1991 7th NCO Academy
Fort Camp Redleg Heilbronn closed 1991 known as Waldheide today
Francois Kaserne Hanau closed 1993
Fryer Circle Housing Area Augsburg closed 1998
Funari Barracks Mannheim closed 2012 except for an enclave that closed in 2014
Gablingen Kaserne Augsburg closed 1998
General Patton Hotel Garmisch-Partenkirchen closed 2009
General Walker Hotel Obersalzberg closed 1995
George C. Marshall Kaserne Bad Kreuznach closed 2001
Gerszewski Barracks Karlsruhe closed 1995
Gibbs Kaserne Frankfurt closed 1990s
Giebelstadt Army Air Field Giebelstadt closed 2006
Giessen Depot Giessen closed 2008
Graves Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
Griesheim Army Airfield/Stars and Stripes Kaserne Griesheim closed 2008 Stars and Stripes moved to Kaiserslautern
Grossauheim Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Gruenewald Training Area Berlin closed 1994
Hahn Air Base Hunsrück closed 1993
Hammonds Barracks Mannheim closed 2010
Hardt Kaserne Schwäbisch Gmünd closed 1991
Harris Barracks Coburg closed 1991
Harvey Barracks Kitzingen closed 2007
Helmstedt Support Detachment Helmstedt closed 1990
Herzo Base Herzogenaurach closed 1992
Hessen Homberg Kaserne Hanau closed 1990s
Hindenburg Kaserne Ansbach closed 1992
Hindenburg Kaserne Würzburg closed 1994 torn down
Holbeinring Military Housing Heidelberg closed 2013
Hospital Kaserne Bad Kreuznach closed 2001
Hutier Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Jaeger Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
JAROC Processing Compound Berlin closed 1994
Johnson Barracks Fürth closed 1992
Kelley Barracks/Nathan Hale Depot Darmstadt closed 2009
Kelley Barracks part closed 2009, Nathan Hale Depot was still active for a while, now closed
Kennedy Kaserne Frankfurt closed 1994
Kilbourne Kaserne Schwetzingen closed 2012 closed May 2012
Kimbro Kaserne Murnau am Staffelsee transferred to Bundeswehr 1960s
Krabbenloch Kaserne Ludwigsburg closed 1993
Kreuzberg Kaserne Zweibrücken closed 1993
Larson Barracks Kitzingen closed 2007
Ledward Barracks Schweinfurt closed 2014
Lee Barracks Mainz closed 1992
Leighton Barracks Würzburg closed 2008
Liliencron-Kaserne Kellinghusen closed 2009 last US soldiers left in 1992
Lincoln Village Housing Area Darmstadt closed 2009
Lucius D. Clay Compound Berlin closed 1994 named for Lucius D. Clay
Lucius D. Clay Kaserne Osterholz-Scharmbeck-Garlstedt closed 1993
Ludendorff Kaserne Kornwestheim closed 1993
Mainz Army Depot Mainz closed 1993
Mansfield Barracks Feldkirchen transferred to Bundeswehr 1965
Mark Twain Village Heidelberg closed 2013
Marshall Heights Housing Area Kitzingen closed 2007
McGraw Kaserne Munich closed 1992 Chiemgau Complex, Perlacherforst Housing Area
McKee Barracks Crailsheim closed 1993
McNair Barracks Berlin closed 1994
McNair Kaserne Höchst, Frankfurt closed 1994
McPheeters Kaserne Bad Hersfeld closed 1993 US Army 3rd Squadron 14th/11th Armored Cav
Merrell Barracks Nuremberg closed 1992
Michael Barracks Höchst, Frankfurt closed 1994
Minick Kaserne Bad Kreuznach closed 1995
Monteith Barracks Fürth closed 1993
Muna Installation Bamberg closed 2008
Münster Kaserne/Münster-Dieburg Special Weapons Depot Münster-Dieburg closed 1995
Mutlangen MSA Mutlangen closed 1991
Nachrichten Kaserne/130th Station Hospital Heidelberg closed 2013
Nellingen Barracks/Nellingen Kaserne Ostfildern closed 1992
Nelson Kaserne Neu-Ulm closed 1991
O'Brien Barracks Schwabach closed 1993
Patrick Henry Village Heidelberg closed 2013
Patton Barracks Heidelberg closed 2013
Pattonville Ludwigsburg-Remseck closed 1993
Paul Revere Village Karlsruhe closed 1995 was US Army Housing Area, now Nordstadt
Peden Barracks Wertheim am Main closed 1992
Pendleton Barracks Giessen closed 2007
Pinder Barracks Zirndorf closed 1995
Pinder Kaserne Landshut transferred to Bundeswehr 1965
Pioneer Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Pionier Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
Pionier Kaserne Regensburg transferred to Bundeswehr 1980s
Pond Barracks Amberg closed 1995
QM Area Augsburg closed 1998
Ray Barracks Friedberg closed 2007
Ready Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
Reese Barracks Augsburg closed 1994
Rheinland Kaserne Ettlingen closed 1995
Rivers Barracks Giessen closed 1992
Roman Way Village Housing Area Butzbach closed 2007
Roosevelt Barracks Berlin closed 1992
Rose Barracks Bad Kreuznach closed 2001
Rottershausen Storage Area Schweinfurt closed 2014
Schlangenbader Housing Area Berlin closed 1994
Schloss Kaserne Butzbach closed 1992 torn down
Schwabstadl Kaserne Klosterlechfeld closed 1993 74th USAFAD. demolished 2013
Sheridan Kaserne Augsburg closed 1998
Sickels Army Airfield Fulda closed 1993
Siegelsbach Army Depot Siegelsbach closed 1991
Smith Kaserne Aschaffenburg closed 1992
Spinelli Barracks Mannheim closed 2013
Stars and Stripes Compound Berlin closed 1994
Stars and Stripes Griesheim closed 2008
Strassburg Barracks Idar-Oberstein closed 2008
Sullivan Barracks Mannheim closed 2013
Sundgauer Housing Area Berlin closed 1994
Taukkunen Barracks Worms closed 1996
Taylor Barracks Mannheim closed 2010
Teufelsberg Station Berlin closed 1994
Thomas Jefferson Village Worms closed 1999
Truman Plaza Berlin closed 1994
Turley Barracks Mannheim closed 2007
Turner Barracks Berlin closed 1992
Underwood Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
US Army Hospital Berlin Berlin closed 1994
US Army Hospital Nürnberg Nürnberg closed 1994
Valdez Barracks Ludwigsburg closed 1991
Wallace Barracks Stuttgart closed 1993
Warner Barracks Bamberg closed 2014
Wharton Barracks Heilbronn closed 1989 named for James Edward Wharton
Wiley Barracks Neu-Ulm closed 1991
W.O. Darby Kaserne Fürth closed 1995
Wolfgang Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Würzburg Hospital Würzburg closed 2008
Yorkhof Kaserne Hanau closed 2008
Yorktown Housing Complex Schweinfurt closed 2014


Enough? More? Shall I list bases transferred to the Bundeswehr too?

Or shall we go directly to "these weren't real bases anyway" or "they weren't really closed" next? Which one will it be?

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

RWSGFY says

All of the above, who collectively reduced US troops in Europe ftom 500K to less than 1/10 of that?

Name a base that was closed. Name one, if it's been reduced to 10%.
<

Changing topic much?

No. I don't believe the claim, and I'm posting a reason I don't believe the claim.

Western news media was infiltrated by Operation Mockingbird 45 years ago. That was revealed in the Church Committee. Any claim made by our government or it's propaganda arm, the "free press" should be questioned.

We are ALL victims of propaganda to varying degrees. The difference between propaganda and the truth, is that the truth is entirely consistent, lies RARELY are.

So, basically, it all comes down to you declaring "if I don't like certain information it means that it's false and that's that, BECAUSE MOCKINGBIRD"? Do you realize how childish it all looks when we are talking about HALF A FUCKING MILLION ARMY allegedly hidden in plain sight from everybody, including Russian spies, sattellites, etc?

Eric Holder says

Anderson Barracks Dexheim closed 2008

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/dexheim.htm?source=patrick.net

"Dexheim is the home of the 123rd Main Support Battalion and the 501st Military Intelligence Battalion. Dexheim AST is not closing. It was placed under the command and control of the 221st Base Support Battalion located in Wiesbaden."

I randomly chose that. Here's the second one I randomly chose:

Eric Holder says

Turley Barracks Mannheim closed 2007

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/turley.htm?source=patrick.net

"The military dining facility on Turley Barracks is open Monday through Friday for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The AAFES Snack Bar on Turley Barracks offers light meals, and there are a variety of local restaurants across the street from campus."

Clean up your list, and try again.

Am I being lazy? Yes. I certainly am. I have learned not to spend a lot of time or effort disproving a false claim.

Also, what is interesting, your list isn't on the Internet anywhere. See?

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wharton+Barracks+Heilbronn+closed+1989+named+for+James+Edward+Wharton%22&source=patrick.net&ei=Xz4dYpCZDK-Iggfh-Yhw&iflsig=AHkkrS4AAAAAYh1Mb4LMPcCzPap8aJeoonFrKfH_GJaX&ved=0ahUKEwjQxODHq6P2AhUvhOAKHeE8Ag4Q4dUDCAk&uact=5&oq=%22Wharton+Barracks+Heilbronn+closed+1989+named+for+James+Edward+Wharton%22&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQAFjcBGDVB2gAcAB4AIABcogBuwKSAQMxLjKYAQCgAQGgAQI&sclient=gws-wiz

Do we have a glowie on board? Having to deal with Hasbera I'm pretty adept at recognizing them.

richwicks says

Clean up your list, and try again.

There is no point. If you are hell-bent on disputing information reported to and accepted by Russians (who have the means to verify it using both human intelligence and spy sattelite tech and raise proper objections which they never did) there is nothing I can do here.

With you it will be impossible to prove the fucking water is fucking wet, because MOCKINBIRD!