patrick.net

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Does this mean one can buy a slightly used 2024 Fisker Ocean for $21k?

HeadSet says

Does this mean one can buy a slightly used 2024 Fisker Ocean for $21k?

According to these folks. But why would you want to?

Yep, you read that correctly: Our 2-month-old Fisker Ocean with 4,220 miles on the odometer is worth $21,000, according to CarMax. That's a depreciation of 69.6%.

For context, experts say most new vehicles depreciate an average of 20% in their first year of ownership, with subsequent 15% decreases in the years after. On that timeline, we've experienced more than five years' worth of depreciation in just two months. Two months.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/fisker-ocean-appraisal-long-term-update.html




Any minute now, we'll hear 'But...but...Tesla!' from the Tesla fluffers on this thread.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Any minute now, we'll hear 'But...but...Tesla!' from the Tesla fluffers on this thread.

I don't think we will. They've at least admitted they bought them because they're fun to drive and that's about it. They're not green. They're not going to be cheaper than an ICE vehicle of similar or bigger size and utility. They're a pain in the ass to charge if you do any long range driving, which most people do unless they're basement dwellers.

While it sounds like I'm mocking EV drivers, it's just reality. I grew up and am family friends with a golf cart leasing company, one of the largest. They have electric and gas carts. The electric carts are exponentially more money. Some clubs/courses don't want the noise though and will pay the difference to lease the carts for the season. I can't stand gas golf carts during a round myself. But it's more about noise and not performance of the cart.

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts. They're not practical long term. I inherited my electric golf cart (free). Yes, it is fun to drive. Very zippy for being an IL flatlander. To replace my Lituium battery in 6-10 years I'm looking at $3k by that time. Just for the battery. We are 2-4 years from seeing what battery replacement costs are going to be on EV's. There will be a pretty large percentage that go back to ICE cars once they see the sticker price. It will be $20k, so the car is basically worthless. EV's are the fastest depreciating vehicle on the planet.

WookieMan says

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts.

Longer than that:

Ceffer says

I don't believe this is real, it's certainly not in the United States.

HeadSet says

That was impressive, but appears to be dependent on extremely detailed geo data. How did the car know where the 4 way stops were, unless such info was programmed in. Such a reliance on detailed street data would mean that each time an intersection is changed to a a 4 way stop, for example, that street data would have to be propagated to all self-driving cars in the country.

The work on visual information fed to the machine, and they can recognize stop signs, speed limits, etc. Geolocation data is 1990's technology really.

@richwicks

HeadSet says

HunterTits says

That's Australia, right? Says Ministry of Health but the phone number is not North American. That rules out Canada.

Interesting that they have 800 numbers there.

It is New Zealand

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

richwicks

HeadSet says

HunterTits says

That's Australia, right? Says Ministry of Health but the phone number is not North American. That rules out Canada.

Interesting that they have 800 numbers there.

It is New Zealand

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

WookieMan says

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

LOL he's got you there @richwicks

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

WookieMan says

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

LOL he's got you there richwicks

I didn't care to go through it since it was Ceffer's post, and he doesn't give a damned about passing on totally bullshit information, doctored images, fake news articles, and doctored videos.

It's not in the United States so why would anybody care about this? And there's no way to verify it, we can't even be certain the nation.

richwicks says

It's not in the United States so why would anybody care about this? And there's no way to verify it, we can't even be certain the nation.

Great. No one should care about Isreal or Gaza. Thanks for agreeing with me. Being the link boy, you do realize it ends in govt.nz right? It's New Zealand.... One of the biggest covid whores on the planet. How was this not obvious???

And if you can't believe this link, then all links are shit. Keep digging.

WookieMan says

Great. No one should care about Isreal or Gaza.

IF THE US WASN'T PAYING FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

Is the US paying New Zealand to enforce ridiculous rules on the population over the bullshit pandemic? No? Then I'm not at ALL in involved with it, am I? It's a responsibility of the people of New Zealand to fuck over their government. HOWEVER, if MY government was keeping New Zealand's government from fucking falling apart year after year after year after year for 50 FUCKING years, I'd have an opinion on it.

WookieMan says

Being the link boy, you do realize it ends in govt.nz right?

Where's the link?



You see, I have tried to correct Ceffer MULTIPLE times, thinking (at one time) he was ACTUALLY interested in knowing what is going on, but he just continues to fucking post bullshit continuously, so I basically ignore him and never research him, because correcting him a Sisyphean task. He doesn't give a FUCK if he's passing on bogus information. I don't do that.

Passing on bullshit information is like the TV news lying to you. If I wanted a fucking TV I'd buy one. It's easy to get quality information, but when you have people of LOW quality polluting a space, it diminishes the entire site. I know to ignore Ceffer, but some new person showing up won't. He doesn't care if he clogs up the fucking toilet with shit. He just Alex Jones' up everything. It's easy to point people down a false rabbit hole, it's also unethical. That's the purpose of our fucking propaganda system, is to point people in the wrong direction. They don't care what you believe or think, AS LONG as it's wrong.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts.

Longer than that:

These were popular with weemenfolk, because you didn't have to start the with a crank handle, which required some physical strength and came with the risk of breaking your hand if engine backfired. Once electric starter was invented it was game over for EVs.

You know, that's also quite a good list of the ways the government can mandate that you inject the toxxine.

We should think of practical ways around all of them.

Patrick says

You know, that's also quite a good list of the ways the government can mandate that you inject the toxxine.

We should think of practical ways around all of them.

Open defiance is the way to go.

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude... You're starting to lose me Rich. I don't read everything everyone posts or links, but if you cannot find the link I think you're lost dude. www.fines.govt.nz

You just go on a rant about nothing. You go to your same go too's. We're the worlds super power and police. Is what it is. I'd rather not be Ukraine or potentially Taiwan. Biden has fucked up our borders but that will change in November. I'm optimistic about the future. New media is changing things as well. You gotta stop living in the bottom of a garbage can like a lot of people are lately, not just you.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude...

As I said, I put in very low effort into Ceffer's posts. I occasionally research them to see if they are true, 99% of the time, they aren't, and it was just a waste of time.

I'm not the only one that didn't read another empty post and asked about it.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude... You're starting to lose me Rich. I don't read everything everyone posts or links, but if you cannot find the link I think you're lost dude. www.fines.govt.nz

You just go on a rant about nothing. You go to your same go too's. We're the worlds super power and police. Is what it is. I'd rather not be Ukraine or potentially Taiwan. Biden has fucked up our borders but that will change in November. I'm optimistic about the future. New media is changing things as well. You gotta stop living in the bottom of a garbage can like a lot of people are lately, not just you.

The guy is still looking for Nord Stream pipes in the Black Sea. =))

richwicks says

As I said, I put in very low effort into Ceffer's posts. I occasionally research them to see if they are true, 99% of the time, they aren't, and it was just a waste of time.

I'm not the only one that didn't read another empty post and asked about it.

I don't want to get into user banter, but Ceffer generally posts correct or at least centric posts. With dry sarcasm/language. I do think you get lost in written sarcasm based on your responses. Just being honest. And please don't respond Iraq was fake and no WMD's and we're all idiots for believing it. Under the assumption anyone here actually believed it. I should turn you in for animal abuse watching you beat the already dead horse... again and again and again.

WookieMan says

I don't want to get into user banter, but Ceffer generally posts correct or at least centric posts.

No he doesn't. He posts every goddamned thing he sees and leaves it to everybody else to confirm the veracity of it. He has NO FILTER at all.

WookieMan says

I do think you get lost in written sarcasm based on your responses.

Sarcasm is done by voice. You cannot write sarcasm. You can write satire, however, in fucking clown world it is impossible to distinguish between satire and an actual story now, which is why I essentially ignore "mainstream news" other than to know how the cattle and sheep are being led.

WookieMan says

And please don't respond Iraq was fake and no WMD's and we're all idiots for believing it.

If you believed it, you were a fool, and if you believe the current bullshit, you're an idiot. If you believe that Qaddafi was handing out Viagra, that Assad was "gassing his own people" and that's why the US bombed Syria, or that Ukraine was attacked by Russia "for no reason at all", you're a fucking retard. I'm tired of talking to people who continue to believe the latest nonsense and will happily support the New Thing ™®© just because the propaganda box told them some bullshit.

We live with the fucking Patriot Act now because of fools that were so fucking stupid they believed that Saddam Hussein was about to drop a nuclear weapon on the United States. The Patriot Act allows mass surveillance on ANYBODY without a warrant, this means it allows our intelligence agencies to intercept and record every phone conversation made in the United States, and I know how trivial this is to do. IDIOTS allows a Gestapo to be formed and although you might be able to shrug this off a bit, your kids won't. Everything that's been posted and spoke in the last 20 years was trivial to record, so it was.

I'm fed up with people believing bullshit, and in particular passing on bullshit without any compunction as to whether they are passing on true or false information. It's immoral to lie, and passing off information as truth when it's not, is the same thing as lying, you're just doing it one step removed.

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

You're not making change and just bitching about singular events in the past. STOP living in the past. Change the future. I do, you don't. I've never seen an adult man whine as much as you do. Let it go Elsa. I'm sure that will trigger something....

Just admit you didn't see the fucking link that you always whine about. You were wrong.

WookieMan says

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

I don't need a therapist. I need the mentally weak to goddamn man up and not be fooled by the NEXT bullshit government lie.

The reason I keep going back to the Iraq War, is not that just so many dipshits fell for the bullshit, but so many dipshits silently went along with it, like the pussies they are, then allowed the government to spy on the ENTIRE POPULATION as a result. What a bunch of fucking cucks.

WookieMan says

Change the future. I do, you don't. I've never seen an adult man whine as much as you do. Let it go Elsa. I'm sure that will trigger something....

You want to "trigger me"? Just say "This government is pretty good, we shouldn't change it! I love the status quo. Our government does a good job of working on behalf of the nation".

But I bet you don't think that, but you won't say what a piece of shit government this is. You complain about my whining and moaning, you just fucking take a government dick up your ass without complaint at all. I guess you're better than me. You're habituated to talking to slaves and I'm fed up with slaves. I consider you semi-human animals, capable of thinking, but unwilling to do it.

The reason I write "diatribes" is to demonstrate this. How many stood up to the fucking vaccine? The shutdown? How many saw it as bullshit? How many realize the Ukraine war was bullshit before it started? You fuckers keep getting lied to, believe the bullshit, and drag me into it. You have a civic duty to call out bullshit, either you don't engage in that, or you're too stupid to realize you're being lied to.

WookieMan says

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

I told him pretty much the same thing last year, @WookieMan

He starts by reading something...may or may not gets triggered into then engaging in this total imaginary movie/conversation in his head that kicks in or something. And then what we see in his posting after that is the diarrhea form of it, more or less. This is why he ignores what we respond with in kind or twists it all up in the context of the imaginary conversation he's having.

@richwicks you do need help. Seriously.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

This is why he ignores what we respond with in kind or twists it all up in the context of the imaginary conversation he's having.

I don't get it. I've not agreed with you all the time and we've had back and forth. His comments always fucking lead to Iraq and WMDS's even if the topic is about gays humping dogs. We all know our government isn't perfect. Every fucking comment doesn't need to go back to something that's water under the bridge. It's going to happen again regardless of bitching on Patnet and not doing anything on his end. I know there's ignore, but the bitching and whining has got to stop at some point. Grow a fucking pair Rich.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

richwicks you do need help. Seriously.

Well, I'm not going to get any, so fuck off with that shit.

It's not me that is crazy, it's this fucking world. You watch television? I guarantee you're nuts JUST because of that. Hardly anybody lives in a natural state, they are just a pig that is fed bullshit all their lives, and they never question it.

WookieMan says

I don't get it. I've not agreed with you all the time and we've had back and forth. His comments always fucking lead to Iraq and WMDS's even if the topic is about gays humping dogs.

@WookieMan - give me an example, instead of just libeling me. How can I take you seriously when you so blatantly lie?

Also note, I can't be certain if you are lying or actually believe I did something remotely like that.

The Iraq War is a serious issue that has led to 25 years of foreign policy disaster one after the other. Ukraine is not much different than Iraq. For SOME reason the US wanted war there, they LIED to start it, they propagandized the public into supporting it, and it's a disaster as a result. The US is hurt by it, Ukraine is destroyed by it, and Russia is stronger for it.

You realize we're just going to do this again? We couldn't learn the lesson in the first time. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and now Ukraine. We've had ample time to learn, yet we don't. It's appaling.

Honestly as well the reason I keep going back to Iraq is that is the subject people are MOST likely to be familiar with. Your average person doesn't even really know we were at war with Syria and they don't even know we bombed Libya. Iraq was the LAST WAR we had any significant resistance against so it's at least remembered.

He acts like the Iraq war was some uniquely horrible and evil act by America.

At the end of the day, the US and coalition forces toppled Iraq's army (3rd or 4th largest in the world at the time) in a couple weeks and quickly empowered the MAJORITY and repressed population (Shia and Kurds) to have a rightful democratic say in their governance. The MINORITY Sunni Baathists were pissed they lost dictatorial power and allied with their fellow Sunni's Al Qaeda (and later ISIS) and created a big civil war that ultimately dragged in Shia Iranian proxies from next door.

America is guilty for being too idealistic and not being able to keep the Muslim crazies from killing each other. While the Muslims were killing each other 500 at a time by blowing up each other's mosques and parades, US casualties were remarkably light all things considered. Russia loses more troops in a single week in Ukraine than America lost in Iraq in 12 years.

It was never about oil or some bullshit conspiracy shit the 9/11 troofers always trot out. Just government incompetence and Islamic barbarity.

socal2 says

He acts like the Iraq war was some uniquely horrible and evil act by America.

It was.

The US intelligence agencies allowed the WTC centers to be attacked, 3000 people were killed that day, there were many more that died from asbestos inhalation, the US then used it as an excuse to go into Afghanistan and later had George W. Bush said it didn't matter if binLaden was captured or not (and he was a former intelligence asset during the Russio-Afghanistan war), then it was used to lie the public into the Iraq War not only over "weapons of mass destruction", but over Anthrax which was blamed on Saddam Hussein (remember the anthrax letters?) - they were probably done by Israel, and also claims that binLaden worked with Hussein.

I have never seen such outrageous bullshit in my lifetime until then, and now I see it every time we start a war, and people remain ignorant of it, and invariably support the next war.

Iraq WAS unique, it's just the gold standard now, of a banana republic with a totally uniformed and disinterested population. I was worried in the early naughts about us sliding into fascism and dictatorship, and that's what happened. We're there now, we can't even elect the puppet that we want anymore, all the intelligence agencies and media establishments line up against it. We are at the point where the only remedy will be revolution.

And this happened on MY watch, and your watch too if you're around my age. Boomers failed too, but they were getting on in years by that time, in my early 30's I was of course at my peak, and although friend and colleagues resisted the Iraq bullshit, just 10 years later they were all on board to blow up Libya and Syria and it was the same pattern of bullshit and hysteria. The wars there weren't about "defense" though, it was about "human rights".

To get a Democrat to support killing a nation, call the war "human rights", and to get a Republican to support a war, call the war "defense of strategic interests". It's not either. None of these wars help us, and it's destroyed the nation. Good job everybody being asleep at the wheel. People who think "oh, it will be fine", have no idea - no it won't.

socal2 says

He acts like the Iraq war was some uniquely horrible and evil act by America.

Seriously? While gulf war 1 was a contractual obligation fulfilled to an equally (if not more, women under Saddam were quite liberated) oppressive regime, and a quick pushback into Iraqi bounds, Gulf War 2 certainly was horrible and evil, and that's an understatement, it was a major genocide/infanticide perpetrated by war criminals, under completely made up / false pretenses.

WookieMan says

gays humping dogs

That thread even exist?

It would be more interesting than rehashing the Iraq war for the quadrillionth time.

The Iraq war was just more government graft for the MIC. Plus Hussein threatened the Petrodollar so had to be made example of by the powers that be. But now that we live in a post-truth era where truth is treason in this empire of lies, it seems passé to constantly harangue on a war decades ago when the lies of today are sufficiently evil and warrant more urgent concern.

PeopleUnited says

It would be more interesting than rehashing the Iraq war for the quadrillionth time.

It's a reference to people infecting dogs with monkeypox. Draw your own conclusions of what happened.

Once dogs and kids were starting to get monkeypox from being around gay males, the whole monkeypox thing went away and they renamed it to "m-pox". It was going to be the "new pandemic" if you recall, but I think unlike the Iraq War, people did learn their lesson with these health panics. That killed it.

If you recall in the 1980's, authorities falsely claimed that heterosexuals were at the same risk of HIV as homosexual couples were. Not even close, anal intercourse allows a much easier infection route, and also lifestyle - homosexuals have far more sexual partners than heterosexual couples. I've read about this, it was apparently a deliberate attempt to reduce population by reducing sexual interaction - at least some claim.

It's not even known to this day if HIV is actually the cause of AIDS. Kary Mullis didn't believe it was, although if HIV become detectable in the blood, you have AIDS. HIV may be a benign virus that only becomes apparent once the immune system is compromised. One hypothesis is that people with AIDS actually are getting it from excessive drug use which is also rampant in the gay community. If HIV isn't the cause of AIDS, all the attempts to attack and eliminate HIV are worthless, and it's possible HIV is a symbiotic virus rather than just a parasitic one, and if that's the case, eliminating HIV in a human body may have deleterious effects.

PeopleUnited says

The Iraq war was just more government graft for the MIC.

No, it wasn't just "more". That war changed our nation's direction. We allowed torture due to that war, the Patriot Act, we setup "free speech zones" (remember them), had a "terror alert level" which was used exclusively to get the administration out of trouble when placed under scrutiny, and established the concept of "pre-emptive war", which up until that point was unthinkable, because "we cannot wait for the final proof in the form of a mushroom cloud".

Any credibility left of the media, across the board, was destroyed in those years. NPR and PBS still did decent work in the 1990, but by 2005, they may as well have been CNN today.

With that war, justification for war was thrown away, replaced with absolute nonsense. I know a person that read the Economist religiously, and thinks that the Syria war was all about the US going into Syria to cool the civil war down. He has no idea that the US funded ISIS, that Israel treated and supported the group, and that the US (or Israel or the UK, whatever) staged the Douma Chemical Attack. It's quite probably that the chemical attack in Ghouta probably DID happen, and WE did it. Our government may very well have poisoned a population in order to start a war, if that doesn't brown your pants a bit, you're not thinking about enough.

PeopleUnited says

But now that we live in a post-truth era where truth is treason in this empire of lies

What does post-truth mean?

What was before? PRE-TRUTH? What you're experiencing is an entire population SLOWLY becoming aware of what is going on. I'd argue our media has always been garbage pumping out bullshit all my life. I became aware of this in my early 20's starting with the Nayirah Testimony. The difference with the first Iraq War (Desert Storm) and the later one is that the propaganda was exposed PRIOR to the war starting. It could have been prevented.

The limitation on the Syrian war was in part that so many people were aware that the government was lying about it and knew. That's why ground troops didn't go in. It's pretty well known that ISIS was a US proxy in some way, that the White Helmets didn't exist, and the Kurdish population was simply used as a weapon against Syria - they're just the PKK, a communist terrorist group, a terrorist group according to our government anyhow.

PeopleUnited says

it seems passé to constantly harangue on a war decades ago when the lies of today are sufficiently evil and warrant more urgent concern.

It's a touchstone to get people to realize that the current new lies, are the same as the old ones. The point of the Iraq War is that 1/2 the country resisted it, and at least that 1/2 was reachable for a long time. It's taken time, but "Conservatives" have finally become aware of it. It took them a full decade to realize it wasn't a mistake.

So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill

ForcedTQ says

So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill

Look at leasing. I think the Leaf was leased for $50 a month for a while. Probably that deal is gone, but there are some pretty sweet incentives for leasing, as long as you don't mind soaking the taxpayer for your almost free vehicle.

richwicks says

socal2 says

He acts like the Iraq war was some uniquely horrible and evil act by America.

It was.

MORE people died in Chicago than ALL US troops in Iraq AND Afghanistan. Much of the of the civilian deaths in both countries was attributed to the US, but was actually Muslim infighting between sects. Shia and Sunni. This is why no one has ever been successful in ever taking control of these countries 100%. They are fucking crazy people.

I agree we made a dip shit attempt to try. We have FAR bigger bigger problems at home. We're more war torn here than there. So maybe move there if you think they're better. It's water under the bridge and you cannot or don't even try to control it, just bitch. Enjoy a miserable life.

richwicks says

ForcedTQ says

So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill

Look at leasing. I think the Leaf was leased for $50 a month for a while. Probably that deal is gone, but there are some pretty sweet incentives for leasing, as long as you don't mind soaking the taxpayer for your almost free vehicle.

My financial principles preclude me from leasing or financing an auto. Also not going to soak the taxpayers. Hell, I won’t even DIY solar on my house with an FTC claim. I’ll pay for it myself.

WookieMan says

MORE people died in Chicago than ALL US troops in Iraq AND Afghanistan.

I'm not complaining about the US troop deaths. I'm complaining about spending 1 trillion dollars or whatever to kill 800,000 Iraqis for no discernible benefit.

I no longer appeal to the morality of the situation because people just simply don't care about that. It cost $1,250,000 to kill each Iraqi about. For what benefit to the United States?

WookieMan says

Much of the of the civilian deaths in both countries was attributed to the US, but was actually Muslim infighting between sects. Shia and Sunni. This is why no one has ever been successful in ever taking control of these countries 100%. They are fucking crazy people.

Would the sectarian violence have happened if the United States didn't go to war? And who cares about the violence really? What strategic or financial advantage did the US gain in this war? Halliburton made a ton of money, as did Offense Contractors. The US taxpayer paid for it, and got absolutely nothing out of it other than a bill.

WookieMan says

I agree we made a dip shit attempt to try. We have FAR bigger bigger problems at home. We're more war torn here than there. So maybe move there if you think they're better. It's water under the bridge and you cannot or don't even try to control it, just bitch. Enjoy a miserable life.

If you IDIOTS can't learn from the past, you will repeat the same bullshit in the future. It does appear to be impossible to get you paramecium to understand this. You think the Iraq War has absolutely nothing to do with our current state, it has EVERYTHING to do with it. Our surveillance state was setup as a result of it.

It's also not water under the bridge, we live with the consequences of that war, and because it wasn't stopped, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Ukraine have happened and they also have no financial or strategic objectives, or if they do, they aren't announced. I don't see any. I know some investment bankers are going to make a shit-ton of money off from Ukraine, because Ukraine is going to be slaves to them.

What the MIC does to foreign adversaries, they will eventually do to US. I know you can't comprehend that, but this empire has quite a long way to fall, and they aren't going to go out with a whimper like the USSR did.

ForcedTQ says

My financial principles preclude me from leasing or financing an auto.

You may want to reconsider buying an EV at this time. Their lifespan is about 10 years. Replacement of the battery is basically a new car. I'm leery of them. I doubt there's a single Tesla on the road that was built in 2014 that's on the road today.

There's a very hard limit to the number of charges and discharges, and the battery discharges even when NOT in use. I think the whole industry is crazy. It doesn't solve any problem. It's greenwashing in my opinion. I'm sure you've got a smart phone, do you keep the old one when you replace it? I find that the lfespan of a phone with relatively heavy use is about 5 years due to battery deterioration. I used to use my old phone all the time to listen to podcasts, until it would finally not accept a charge any longer. Miss that phone.. All you can buy are these giant notepads today.