patrick.net

mostly reader says

That's how arguments work: if you claim or imply something, you need to back it up. It IS your responsibility.

mostly reader says

That's how arguments work: if you claim or imply something, you need to back it up. It IS your responsibility.

You dismissed my statement, I challenged you on that. With predictable result.

I'm going to continue to dismiss your statement. "Ukraine Reported" on a rando twitter account is a crap source. Most of the posts in this thread are unprovenced claims by pro-Ukraine NGOs and "Media" with mysterious funding.

mostly reader says

Now you are outright lying. I remember that argument. Where did I try to maintain a fiction? Be specific. I say - your reading comprehension is not my problem.

There's a thread on it, not too long ago, maybe a couple of weeks back. We had a discussion on YOU providing evidence that masks work in the real world, and you provided nothing but controlled experiments in labs.

mostly reader says

I mostly show up on 3 occasions:
- when I can be of help and I don't see that help coming from someone else
- when I must engage in a dialog to learn something
- when someone says something outrageously stupid and untrue about a cause for which I care. It has nothing to do with narrative. I just know it for a fact that those who defend this invasion are blowing the trumpet for the worst of the scum that there is.

There's one more, when someone lends advice which may cause bodily harm. This hasn't yet happened here AFAIR. One instance was somewhat close, but not close enough to pass the criteria.

Ain't you a hero?

This was a long predicted reaction to Neocon meddling in Ukraine. "Leading Ukraine down the Primrose Path" as Mearsheimer put it years ago in the early years of the last decade, and George Kennan warned about what has basically happened decades ago in the 90s before his death.

Nobody is cheering it, just regretting it because it was predicted.

Literally every single asshole in charge of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Obama-era ISIS turd are the some every single assholes that have been pushing Ukraine to cool it's relations with Russia.

AmericanKulak says

There's a thread on it, not too long ago, maybe a couple of weeks back. We had a discussion on YOU providing evidence that masks work in the real world, and you provided nothing but controlled experiments in labs.

Because! That! Was! My! Initial! Statement! To which everyone in the right mind should agree - that masks work in controlled environment. It was never meant to be extended to anything other than that. Of course I didn't provide real world evidence, I never was in that conversation and I never defended that position. "I gracefully decline the invitation to join your hallucination".

AmericanKulak says

Ain't you a hero?

You made a comment - I answered. Is there a problem? Apparently there is. Sorry about shattering your little world.

But hey, look, there's a Nazi under your bed!

BTW, I used this last line under other circumstances and didn't expect that I'd have a chance to use it here.

mostly reader says

Because! That! Was! My! Initial! Statement! To which everyone in the right mind should agree - that masks work in controlled environment. It was never meant to be extended to anything other than that. Of course I didn't provide real world evidence, I never was in that conversation and I never defended that position. "I gracefully decline the invitation to join your hallucination".

And my statement was Public Health. What works in a lab doesn't always translate to the real world, whether engineering or biology, as IRL is a messy place.

mostly reader says

You made a comment - I answered. Is there a problem? Apparently there is. Sorry about shattering your little world.

But hey, look, there's a Nazi under your bed!

BTW, I used this last line under other circumstances and didn't expect that I'd have a chance to use it here.

You're way too full of yourself, which is why I dismiss you.

Isn't it kind of purposelessness to argue about the stupid war in Ukraine?

People get caught up in the propaganda, and it's just that, a bunch of lies. I will listen to some people ONLY to find out how reliable they are, and I don't find out how reliable they are until after the fact.

I've been doing this for years, which is why I know it's completely worthless to listen to what is called "mainstream news".

AmericanKulak says

And my statement was Public Health. What works in a lab doesn't always translate to the real world, whether engineering or biology, as IRL is a messy place.

So you decided that I argued against your point and made a fool of yourself. Got it.
AmericanKulak says

You're way too full of yourself, which is why I dismiss you.

Just so you know: it's easy to appear full of oneself next to someone who's full of something else.

mostly reader says

So you decided that I argued against your point and made a fool of yourself. Got it.

This doesn't provide any information. You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I think you are tiresome to try to communicate with, because you're a brick wall. You've shown no capacity to think or to absorb information, or to digest what you didn't previously know. Your mind can't be altered in the least. You don't know how to have a discussion in my opinion.

richwicks says

This doesn't provide any information.

It sure does. It invites a discussion about a possible disconnect, at the very least.

I, of course, do not mean that it provides information to you.


richwicks says

You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I'm declaring the victory because it's warranted. If you crap your pants I may pretend that it didn't happen if I like you. Or not if I don't.

richwicks says

You've shown no capacity to think or to absorb information, or to digest what you didn't previously know.

If someone is looking for an example of clownesque, look no further!! I'll give you a hint about the "why": things that I do know, how do I know them?

As to your persona. The entire worldview that you are pushing on patnet is based on little tweaks of reality that shoehorn your agenda into coherent picture. It falls apart as soon as you "untweak" them. I made an example of it in a lengthier post about blatant propaganda. Your message is a perfect use case.

BTW, just so you know. When I earlier mentioned recommendation which was somewhat close to causing bodily harm, I meant specifically you. You really should abstain from topics of which you understand little. Which is most of them.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I'm declaring the victory because it's warranted. If you crap your pants I may pretend that it didn't happen if I like you. Or not if I don't.

This is why I don't take you too seriously. Again, you can't have a discussion.

Time will tell what the fallout from the Ukraine/Russian war is - there are no good sides. This is a battle between oligarchs which are sacrificing people for their own ends, and have no real stakes in the outcome.

richwicks says

there are no good sides

Cut the crap, comrade. You've been hanging off of Putler's nuts too long to pull off this mask of impartiality.

Please Clap.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

there are no good sides

Cut the crap, comrade.

"Comrade" - the Irony.

Do you think this stupidity works with anybody over 30? Ad hominem attacks are used when there's nothing else to use.

mostly reader says

You've been hanging off of Putler's nuts too long to pull off this mask of impartiality.

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

I've talked to people outside of a war. The Serbian war was interesting. Both sides felt they were just caught up and they were. People get dragged into a conflict, by propaganda, always. A conflict they were lied into, because they didn't understand the other side, and the other side didn't understand them.

richwicks says

"Comrade" - the Irony.

At least you understand that there's no irony in "Cut the crap".

richwicks says

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

It's not lazy, it's adequate.

You've been pushing blatant pro-Russian propaganda here with such vigor that this "there are no good sides" high ground maneuver looks quite cute.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

It's not lazy, it's adequate.

You've been pushing blatant pro-Russian propaganda here

Like what?

Show some examples.

"Russian propaganda" is what our news media and government calls the truth, and they've been doing this for 5 years. So, do you mean I'm using "the truth" or do you mean ACTUAL Russian Propaganda?

I'm sorry my dishonest, lying fucking government confuses the two terms, intentionally, maliciously. It's "Russian propaganda" for example that Hunter Biden is a dirtbag sex addicted slut crack addict. That's what our propaganda says. It's just the truth though. That's precisely what he is.

My bet, is that you can't distinguish between what our dishonest, criminal, lying establishment calls "Russian propaganda" and what actually is Russian propaganda.

AmericanKulak says

Please Clap.

Jeb IS a dynastic Nazi. Dad was sired from the loins of the Gestapo/SS ratlined to construct the Swiss International Branch of the CIA Inc. by Allen Dulles. Bushes have an estate in Switzerland as well as a ranch in South America close to where the allegedly alive Adolph Hitler wound up cooling his heels. It's probably the Swiss branch of the CIA that is training the Nazis in Ukraine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1508435315123445761?source=patrick.net

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/?source=patrick.net

Leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed how mainstream media reports Russia’s conduct in the Ukraine war, in a bid to counter propaganda intended to get NATO into the conflict

That's an interesting idea. Maybe the Pentagon is sane, and engaged in an effort to stop the woke idiots from getting us all killed.

Finally footage of advancing troops being greeted as liberators!

https://twitter.com/vitalyvoronenko/status/1509645491688157187?source=patrick.net

Fuel depot in Belgorod (NOT Ukraine):

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10205?source=patrick.net

At least 8 fuel storage tanks ablaze:

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10209?source=patrick.net

Ukie helos dindu nuffin:

https://youtu.be/bbt5pr5lCuc

https://youtu.be/xpFnJ-0_xMo

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10213?source=patrick.net

Still burning in the morning:

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10214?source=patrick.net

Never leave a man behind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcxZJyW0iA&source=patrick.net

socal2 says

Never leave a man behind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcxZJyW0iA&source=patrick.net

there are some professional videos on youtube making it look like Ukraine is winning the war and practically in Moscow.

knowing our government and their propaganda tactics, most of it is likely hollywood production fakes. i don’t care, just telling you as a neighbor to take this all with a huge stack of salt. Media is tightly controlled, so what you see is what they want you to see, and what they don’t want you to see is nowhere to be found. Concensus forming media, kind of how they convinced so many to live in covid fear… same fucking tactics.

Fortwaynemobile says

Media is tightly controlled, so what you see is what they want you to see, and what they don’t want you to see is nowhere to be found.

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

At this point I don't think it's fair to write these people off as naive or gullible. They're just fucking stupid and I'm sick of them.

richwicks says

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

My favorite from this event was the civilian clothed people on the downslope of a dirt berm, "Throwing" molotovs. You could not see the target. Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

Very tired liberator resting after playing garmoshka for his new Ukie friends:

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

AmericanKulak says

Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

I just don't find it useful at this point to pick out when the news media is lying to me, when it's so obviously willing to lie over and over and over again.

I really view anything that makes it to be corporate news to be a complete fabrication or a lie. It's pointless to view it looking for information. The truth gets out in time, but it takes a couple of months before it does.

What's going on in Ukraine now? I'll know in September.

Putin has already said that if NATO gets involved, they'll fight a war of attrition. That might be the current plan, and if it is, this war will still be going on in September - not to be won, but to exhaust foreign supplies and fighters. This is what happened in Afghanistan, what is happening in Syria, what is going on in Yemen. War sucks. It not necessarily about winning, it's about making certain the other sides doesn't win, regardless of the human cost.

RWSGFY says

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

They are just large Nerf bullets.

HeadSet says

That's the worst photoshop I've ever seen. There's at least 5 separate pictures here. Our nation doesn't even give a shit about making believable propaganda anymore. They depend on the idiocracy exclusively. They don't give a fuck about people that think.

That's the worst photoshop I've ever seen.

It is a JOKE! And I have seen plenty worse photoshop jobs here on pics intended to be serious.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1511036343765274624?source=patrick.net

Eric Holder says

https://twitter.com/i/status/1511036343765274624?source=patrick.net

This stuff is silly. It's created to produce an emotional response. This is obviously propaganda.

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here, what sort of outcome they HOPE to see happen or expect to see happen? Say you convince me that Ukraine IS going to win the war. That doesn't change any outcome. If Ukraine is going to win the war, I certainly don't want the US or NATO involved in it then, and even if Ukraine loses the war, I don't want the US or NATO involved in it.

It's YOU that is hoping for a particular outcome.

Whatever happens, happens. I just regard this whole thing as stupid and unnecessary. I just watched a video with Aaron Mate and Jimmy Dore where it certainly appears that Ukraine was hoping to get Russia to attack them, and are using Ukrainian civilians as cannon fodder.


original link


Now why? Well, I think Zelenskyy is basically a puppet of the United States. It might all boil down to getting Europe to buy natural gas from the United States - although I think that's overly simplistic, but maybe. Maybe this whole fucking stupid war was to open up Europe as an LNG market for the United States. That this whole bullshit war, all these people being killed, is just for that.

But probably not. Wars usually are multidimensional - there are multiple goals but if the United States basically had this war as a goal, it just further solidifies my very dim view of what a bunch of assholes run the United States now, and how frustratingly oblivious Americans are. These monsters will turn on their own population in time, with the same viciousness - if they haven't already.

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

APPARENTLY, if I'm to trust what I've heard from a couple of people who are reporting from Ukraine, is that the infrastructure is being left untouched. Who knows, but a lot of live webcams that CLAIM to be current and real webcams running in Ukraine are still running.

I'm used to all the BS that gets reported as truth during a war, but I'm kind of surprised some people are still believing anything they are seeing.

Killing a helo with an ATGM:

https://twitter.com/Kochevenko/status/1511287971537985540?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&source=patrick.net

richwicks says

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here

TRIGGERS you though, LOL.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh? The network is up in running in Kyiv for sure. I speak with co-workers there regularly.

PS. I'm afraid to ask, but I feel I must now: do you guys know that you can film a video on a cell phone w/o cellular network being available?

RWSGFY says

Very tired liberator resting after playing garmoshka for his new Ukie friends:

Always the face missing, never any clearly identifiable patches or insignia...

Eric Holder says

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh?

No, I'm saying that active duty military would have more immediate concerns than making a video. It's obvious propaganda. What you are viewing is from a PR firm, a propaganda firm. They are designed to elicit an emotional response - shock is a common tactic. That video you showed does exactly that. TECHNICALLY showing the bodies of soldiers killed in war violates the Geneva Conventions, but shit, who cares about the Geneva Conventions? The United States sure as heck doesn't.

Eric Holder says

The network is up in running in Kyiv for sure. I speak with co-workers there regularly.

PS. I'm afraid to ask, but I feel I must now: do you guys know that you can film a video on a cell phone w/o cellular network being available?

Well, of course. It's a bad idea to bring in a cell phone to a warzone BTW - it would be looking for towers, and you can triangulate its location. If I was in the Russian military, or American military, I wouldn't bring a phone into combat, and I would warn other people not to do this.

I'm pointing out that the video is staged. It's easier to stage it, than to make an authentic version of it, far easier. From that alone, I know it's staged. Nobody is going to wait for a genuine opportunity when they are producing propaganda. Even if it's ENTIRELY real, it's propaganda. It's designed to make people viewing it believe that the Russians there are FUCKED, that it's a joke to kill them - "stupid assholes thought they could fuck around in Ukraine - this is what happens to them!" That's the message. If it were real, the soldier that recovered the video would more likely be explaining what happened, how they came upon the Russians, if it was an ambush - it would be more human. Instead, it's treated as "hey, here's another rat I just killed!"

When the Syrian war was in its infancy, I frequently came across staged videos. I expect to find piles of dead bodies at some point, which aren't dead bodies, but actors, in this war. Probably it's already been done and I missed it. I'm just very used to this sort of thing.

Our news media, and producers of propaganda, expect people to accept what they see at face value. It's just an assumption they make, but some people look more closely. There's always an enormous amount of propaganda in any war. If you were following news stories about Afghanistan in the 2014 timeframe (I did for a little bit - because I literally wasn't certain it was still ongoing), all the reports (what few there were) treated Afghanistan as a more or less done deal - a war that was won.

Our "news" media is going to report, regardless of reality, that Ukraine is winning, and the Russians are getting their asses handed to them but civilian casualties and war crimes are horrific. Now that Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube are fully censored, you are going to see the same thing there as well. You might be able to find a few people on the ground reporting, but they will be hidden by the algorithm, you'll have to know precisely what you're looking for, and what they produce will frequently disappear or just be impossible to find unless you have the URL.

Years ago, I was naive enough to think that Google and Facebook wouldn't DARE to make obvious propaganda, because there was a commenting system, and people would point it out - and they do, you just won't find their comments. I thought when people realized they were being censored, not allowed to communicate, and being fed bullshit they'd abandon the platforms, but nope - instead they just pathetically complain, and wonder "how did I violate the terms of service??" - they didn't, they were censored. It's pure political censorship. Even people who are aware of propaganda, aren't aware of what is going on. The idea that the CDA and section 230 is followed or enforced, THAT'S propaganda - some of these people think they can SUE because the companies are in clear violation of the law - they are publishers, not platforms, they are legally liable for anything on their sites for any defamation or slander, produced by anybody, because they have become editors. Our government won't enforce the law.

Eric Holder says

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh?

No, the question is why the city is not shut off from power when the Russians control the outskirts? And in land the Russians do not control, how hard is it to bomb the power plant? And even if the Russians wanted to keep the power intact for whatever reason, how hard is it to jam all cell frequencies? Or is the idea that cell phones depend on radio spectrum too unrealistic for you? And if you want to say, film with phone and go to cable internet, how hard would it be for the Russians to take out the backbone?

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here

TRIGGERS you though, LOL.

It annoys me. Do you like being manipulated like an animal?

This sort of control over a population is always menacing. Our country is being manipulated, though propaganda to support what would become a nuclear war, and they are being misinformed to do this.

I gave you a video - if it's correct, it demonstrates that Ukraine purposely goaded Russia into attacking Ukraine and one of the reasons they did this, was to cash in on the United States selling LNG to Europe, it was to benefit some corporations. All the people being killed and all the destruction that is taking place now was collateral damage to accomplish that goal.

Do you like being manipulated like a dog? The difference with a dog and a person, is when you're training a dog through manipulation it really is for their own good, not to their detriment. Don't you resent being treated like a pawn?

Here's an example of propaganda - "wokeism". People are entirely misdirected into this thinking. When has propaganda ever been used for the common good? I'm annoyed you repeat it, and seem to believe it. I think bypassing logic and reasoning is only used for immoral if not evil ends.