patrick.net

Fortwaynemobile says

Media is tightly controlled, so what you see is what they want you to see, and what they don’t want you to see is nowhere to be found.

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

At this point I don't think it's fair to write these people off as naive or gullible. They're just fucking stupid and I'm sick of them.

richwicks says

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

My favorite from this event was the civilian clothed people on the downslope of a dirt berm, "Throwing" molotovs. You could not see the target. Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

Very tired liberator resting after playing garmoshka for his new Ukie friends:

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

AmericanKulak says

Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

I just don't find it useful at this point to pick out when the news media is lying to me, when it's so obviously willing to lie over and over and over again.

I really view anything that makes it to be corporate news to be a complete fabrication or a lie. It's pointless to view it looking for information. The truth gets out in time, but it takes a couple of months before it does.

What's going on in Ukraine now? I'll know in September.

Putin has already said that if NATO gets involved, they'll fight a war of attrition. That might be the current plan, and if it is, this war will still be going on in September - not to be won, but to exhaust foreign supplies and fighters. This is what happened in Afghanistan, what is happening in Syria, what is going on in Yemen. War sucks. It not necessarily about winning, it's about making certain the other sides doesn't win, regardless of the human cost.

RWSGFY says

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

They are just large Nerf bullets.

HeadSet says

That's the worst photoshop I've ever seen. There's at least 5 separate pictures here. Our nation doesn't even give a shit about making believable propaganda anymore. They depend on the idiocracy exclusively. They don't give a fuck about people that think.

That's the worst photoshop I've ever seen.

It is a JOKE! And I have seen plenty worse photoshop jobs here on pics intended to be serious.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1511036343765274624?source=patrick.net

Eric Holder says

https://twitter.com/i/status/1511036343765274624?source=patrick.net

This stuff is silly. It's created to produce an emotional response. This is obviously propaganda.

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here, what sort of outcome they HOPE to see happen or expect to see happen? Say you convince me that Ukraine IS going to win the war. That doesn't change any outcome. If Ukraine is going to win the war, I certainly don't want the US or NATO involved in it then, and even if Ukraine loses the war, I don't want the US or NATO involved in it.

It's YOU that is hoping for a particular outcome.

Whatever happens, happens. I just regard this whole thing as stupid and unnecessary. I just watched a video with Aaron Mate and Jimmy Dore where it certainly appears that Ukraine was hoping to get Russia to attack them, and are using Ukrainian civilians as cannon fodder.


original link


Now why? Well, I think Zelenskyy is basically a puppet of the United States. It might all boil down to getting Europe to buy natural gas from the United States - although I think that's overly simplistic, but maybe. Maybe this whole fucking stupid war was to open up Europe as an LNG market for the United States. That this whole bullshit war, all these people being killed, is just for that.

But probably not. Wars usually are multidimensional - there are multiple goals but if the United States basically had this war as a goal, it just further solidifies my very dim view of what a bunch of assholes run the United States now, and how frustratingly oblivious Americans are. These monsters will turn on their own population in time, with the same viciousness - if they haven't already.

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

APPARENTLY, if I'm to trust what I've heard from a couple of people who are reporting from Ukraine, is that the infrastructure is being left untouched. Who knows, but a lot of live webcams that CLAIM to be current and real webcams running in Ukraine are still running.

I'm used to all the BS that gets reported as truth during a war, but I'm kind of surprised some people are still believing anything they are seeing.

Killing a helo with an ATGM:

https://twitter.com/Kochevenko/status/1511287971537985540?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&source=patrick.net

richwicks says

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here

TRIGGERS you though, LOL.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh? The network is up in running in Kyiv for sure. I speak with co-workers there regularly.

PS. I'm afraid to ask, but I feel I must now: do you guys know that you can film a video on a cell phone w/o cellular network being available?

RWSGFY says

Very tired liberator resting after playing garmoshka for his new Ukie friends:

Always the face missing, never any clearly identifiable patches or insignia...

Eric Holder says

HeadSet says

richwicks says

What are we supposed to believe, that somebody was filmed playing an accordion, was killed in action, somebody found their phone or camera or whatever, went through it, fired up some video editing software, and downloaded some public domain music, and composed a video and uploaded it to Twitter?

What I wonder is how the cell phone network is up and running in a war zone. It would seem the first thing the Russians would do is cut power and other utilities.

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh?

No, I'm saying that active duty military would have more immediate concerns than making a video. It's obvious propaganda. What you are viewing is from a PR firm, a propaganda firm. They are designed to elicit an emotional response - shock is a common tactic. That video you showed does exactly that. TECHNICALLY showing the bodies of soldiers killed in war violates the Geneva Conventions, but shit, who cares about the Geneva Conventions? The United States sure as heck doesn't.

Eric Holder says

The network is up in running in Kyiv for sure. I speak with co-workers there regularly.

PS. I'm afraid to ask, but I feel I must now: do you guys know that you can film a video on a cell phone w/o cellular network being available?

Well, of course. It's a bad idea to bring in a cell phone to a warzone BTW - it would be looking for towers, and you can triangulate its location. If I was in the Russian military, or American military, I wouldn't bring a phone into combat, and I would warn other people not to do this.

I'm pointing out that the video is staged. It's easier to stage it, than to make an authentic version of it, far easier. From that alone, I know it's staged. Nobody is going to wait for a genuine opportunity when they are producing propaganda. Even if it's ENTIRELY real, it's propaganda. It's designed to make people viewing it believe that the Russians there are FUCKED, that it's a joke to kill them - "stupid assholes thought they could fuck around in Ukraine - this is what happens to them!" That's the message. If it were real, the soldier that recovered the video would more likely be explaining what happened, how they came upon the Russians, if it was an ambush - it would be more human. Instead, it's treated as "hey, here's another rat I just killed!"

When the Syrian war was in its infancy, I frequently came across staged videos. I expect to find piles of dead bodies at some point, which aren't dead bodies, but actors, in this war. Probably it's already been done and I missed it. I'm just very used to this sort of thing.

Our news media, and producers of propaganda, expect people to accept what they see at face value. It's just an assumption they make, but some people look more closely. There's always an enormous amount of propaganda in any war. If you were following news stories about Afghanistan in the 2014 timeframe (I did for a little bit - because I literally wasn't certain it was still ongoing), all the reports (what few there were) treated Afghanistan as a more or less done deal - a war that was won.

Our "news" media is going to report, regardless of reality, that Ukraine is winning, and the Russians are getting their asses handed to them but civilian casualties and war crimes are horrific. Now that Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube are fully censored, you are going to see the same thing there as well. You might be able to find a few people on the ground reporting, but they will be hidden by the algorithm, you'll have to know precisely what you're looking for, and what they produce will frequently disappear or just be impossible to find unless you have the URL.

Years ago, I was naive enough to think that Google and Facebook wouldn't DARE to make obvious propaganda, because there was a commenting system, and people would point it out - and they do, you just won't find their comments. I thought when people realized they were being censored, not allowed to communicate, and being fed bullshit they'd abandon the platforms, but nope - instead they just pathetically complain, and wonder "how did I violate the terms of service??" - they didn't, they were censored. It's pure political censorship. Even people who are aware of propaganda, aren't aware of what is going on. The idea that the CDA and section 230 is followed or enforced, THAT'S propaganda - some of these people think they can SUE because the companies are in clear violation of the law - they are publishers, not platforms, they are legally liable for anything on their sites for any defamation or slander, produced by anybody, because they have become editors. Our government won't enforce the law.

Eric Holder says

The idea that a captured cell phone can be brought back to say, Kyiv, and processed there is too unrealistic for you, eh?

No, the question is why the city is not shut off from power when the Russians control the outskirts? And in land the Russians do not control, how hard is it to bomb the power plant? And even if the Russians wanted to keep the power intact for whatever reason, how hard is it to jam all cell frequencies? Or is the idea that cell phones depend on radio spectrum too unrealistic for you? And if you want to say, film with phone and go to cable internet, how hard would it be for the Russians to take out the backbone?

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

You post this sort of stuff constantly. Does it matter to anybody here

TRIGGERS you though, LOL.

It annoys me. Do you like being manipulated like an animal?

This sort of control over a population is always menacing. Our country is being manipulated, though propaganda to support what would become a nuclear war, and they are being misinformed to do this.

I gave you a video - if it's correct, it demonstrates that Ukraine purposely goaded Russia into attacking Ukraine and one of the reasons they did this, was to cash in on the United States selling LNG to Europe, it was to benefit some corporations. All the people being killed and all the destruction that is taking place now was collateral damage to accomplish that goal.

Do you like being manipulated like a dog? The difference with a dog and a person, is when you're training a dog through manipulation it really is for their own good, not to their detriment. Don't you resent being treated like a pawn?

Here's an example of propaganda - "wokeism". People are entirely misdirected into this thinking. When has propaganda ever been used for the common good? I'm annoyed you repeat it, and seem to believe it. I think bypassing logic and reasoning is only used for immoral if not evil ends.

richwicks says

if it's correct, it demonstrates

You gave a video which YOU YOURSELF have to use with "if it's correct" qualifier, which is long, and which has markers of being a tool of manipulation. And then you try to use it as a foundation for shaming OTHERS of being manipulated. You can't make it up.

Just so you know. In light of what happened in the Orc-occupied territories, the only reasonable response to that is - print it out on sandpaper and shove it up your bum, rough side out. There's a special place in hell for the likes of you.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

if it's correct, it demonstrates

You gave a video which YOU YOURSELF have to use with "if it's correct" qualifier,

I don't have to use that. I'm using it because I cannot be certain it's correct. It's to give YOU intellectual leeway and to make a judgement for yourself, not me.

I've followed this conflict since 2014. The West has been antagonizing Russia for decades. The Skripal story was complete bullshit. I've listened to that fucking stupid cunt Nuland lie in front of the UN multiple times. Her husband is Robert Kagan, he's one of the dickheads that was part of the Project for the New American Century. He's a Neoconservative cunt, like all Neoconservative cunts have been leading this nation into endless stupid fucking wars, and needless conflict for 2 goddamned decades.

They wrote Rebuilding America's Defenses - in that, the plan IS and STILL is for 100 fucking years of war. Not to accomplish anything, that's just their stupid fucking insane plan.

They are a bunch of nutbags that just want to make war, that's their mission and people like you, are total cocksuckers to them.

Here, for your reading pleasure:

https://archive.org/details/RebuildingAmericasDefenses?source=patrick.net

These motherfuckers tell the public OPENLY what the plan is, but oh, it's not on the Propaganda Box, so it's just a conspiracy theory. They are destroying this nation, not building it, not helping it. They are quite open about this although when they are in a "think tank" it's always masked as "good for the country" - well, they never define who is the country.

These are the assholes that Orwell warned us about. War exists to maintain the state, and I wish the Proles would fucking open their eyes. War is peace, because as long as there is war, there's no revolution against the state causing it. They LONG ago realized that when a nation was in war, and faced an external threat, there was ZERO resistance to the government at the time - THAT is why they make war. It's stability, for them.

richwicks says

I've followed this conflict since 2014.

You may have seen your face in the mirror for much longer, but all that time doesn't matter if you still can't tell it from your ass. When your logic is corrupt (which I demonstrated on multiple occasions) or when you are on a propaganda mission it doesn't matter how long you've been following the subject. There's only one thing that someone needs to know about you: you still, STILL defend the undefendable. Even after it's clear beyond any doubt those you defend and promote are the scum.

As I said, there's special place in hell for the likes of you.

I think it's clear that Nigel T. has turned the US/western propaganda apparatus to "11." Increasingly, PatNet is beset with users who vomit propaganda, don't engage anyone except for ad hominem attacks and the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"

We know who they are.

A possible worthwhile experiment would be for a blanket "don't feed the trolls" suggestion to go out. It would be interesting to see how and when bot activity decreases. Judging by a few threads in the last few months (we know which ones), the bot interest wanes between 3 - 6 months. In between, the bots seem to contaminate other threads, which also abates if these trolling attempts are unsuccessful.

This may trigger some, so proceed with caution at you own risk:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mhmck/status/1511518549055094784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&source=patrick.net

https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1511471241416249344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&source=patrick.net

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I've followed this conflict since 2014.

You may have seen your face in the mirror for much longer, but all that time doesn't matter if you still can't tell it from your ass.

Again, it's just an insult. All you do is insult. You never explain. You don't reference, you don't link, you don't show data, even when I directly ask you to do this. It's childish.

mostly reader says

When your logic is corrupt (which I demonstrated on multiple occasions)

Give us a link to one of your posts where you have.

mostly reader says

or when you are on a propaganda mission it doesn't matter how long you've been following the subject.

Propaganda like what, specifically? Quote me.

mostly reader says

There's only one thing that someone needs to know about you: you still, STILL defend the undefendable.

What precisely do you think I'm defending that is indefensible? Quote me again.

mostly reader says

As I said, there's special place in hell for the likes of you.

All you do is engage in ad-hominem attacks. I imagine you sitting in a chair in your underwear in an apoplectic rage, absolutely furious that anybody would disagree with the government propaganda, I just sat through 4 years of the US of A's bullshit about "Russia hacked our election" for 24 hours a day 7 days a week on every propaganda channel and on the late night tv funny men's shows. If Russia was actually doing some really evil shit and has been doing evil shit, I'd think they could point it out. Russia hasn't done anything the US hasn't done - did they commit war atrocities in Syria but now, suddenly, they are supposedly in Ukraine. I remember when the United States threatened to arrest judges on the ICC for investigating war crimes of the Bush and Obama administration.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54003527

Just the fucking hypocrisy of my government, it's hilarious.

Say something of substance. You've never said anything or demonstrated anything to me to make me reconsider my honestly pretty unstable position on this matter. I know Ukraine was overthrown by the United States, you know that. I've given you the recording of Nuland and Pyatt multiple times. You never even address it. Don't you think the US has SOME culpability in this conflict since they fucking overthrew the government there?

Shock of shocks, I do. I'm tired of these motherfuckers in my government getting blood on our hands.

richwicks says

Again, it's just an insult. All you do is insult. You never explain.

Technically it isn't. However: cry me a river. I don't treat you nearly as poorly as you deserve to be treated, you scum defender you.

I noticed that you haven't yet called Bucha, Gostomel, Irpin atrocities fakes. No marching orders yet?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Again, it's just an insult. All you do is insult. You never explain.

Technically it isn't. However: cry me a river. I don't treat you nearly as poorly as you deserve to be treated, you scum defender you.

I noticed that you haven't yet called Bucha, Gostomel, Irpin atrocities fakes. No marching orders yet?

I'm pretty sure he did.

What he didn't do since Feb 24 is to go on one of his usual anti-war rants. These were awesome: several screens long and filled with the righteous indignation. Alas, no more.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Again, it's just an insult. All you do is insult. You never explain.

Technically it isn't. However: cry me a river. I don't treat you nearly as poorly as you deserve to be treated, you scum defender you.

Again, you said nothing.

mostly reader says

I noticed that you haven't yet called Bucha, Gostomel, Irpin atrocities fakes. No marching orders yet?

I don't know anything about them other than what my lying fucking government tells me. Why do you fucking trust THEM??

I suspected that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was a false flag when it was first reported, because Obozo warned Assad against using such weapons BEFORE the supposed attack. I was expected to believe that Assad is so fucking stupid, and his advisors are so fucking dumb, that they decided to use chemical weapons anyhow, on a city, for no strategic reason that was ever given and invite the United States to bomb their ass as a result. It was senseless. That didn't add up. To this day I don't know if there was a chemical weapons attack in Ghouta or not. If there was, it was probably done by Mi6, CIA, Mossad, maybe the "moderate rebels" - who knows?

But the Douma attack, that I know was fake. I know this because two whistleblowers from the OPCW explained in detail how it was staged and how they came up with nothing for chemical residue.

And my government lied about both of them, they NEVER gave up lying about it. They lie to this day.

Now, what would be the motivation of Russia to murder civilians? How does his work in their favor?

I know why civilians were targeted in Vietnam - it was a guerilla war. The Vietcong would embed themselves in the population and murder soldiers and the civilians collaborated with these people.

I don't put it above my government to lie blatantly. I don't put it past Ukraine's government to do a false flag or to stage an attack. I've seen my government do it, I've seen the "White Helmets" do it - so why are you screaming me to rush to a conclusion? I'll know in a few months, but if you are dumb enough to trust our propaganda, you must be stuck on stupid and gullible at this point. Our government lies constantly - or did we find out how Russia hacked our election yet? They will tell the most RIDICULOUS lies, obvious lies, and you just assume you know the truth and you trust a US installed puppet government in Ukraine to tell you the truth.

You don't have enough information to draw a conclusion, you are making an assessment without having enough data.

richwicks says

Why do you fucking trust THEM??

I said it repeatedly that I don't rely on US government sources of information. It apparently went over you. "mostly writer" at his best.

What those other sources describe is beyond comprehension. Kids killed with their families. Little girls raped. Women gang-raped and then killed, with follow-up incomplete attempts to burn the bodies.

It happened apparently in 3 stages. The 3d, the most devastating one, happened when the Orcs knew they were leaving and felt that they had nothing to lose.

The full scale of what happened there is still unclear because everything is booby-trapped. As in - there's a dead family inside the house, but the house is booby-trapped, so they need to proceed with caution.

I have no sympathy for a cocksucker who pushes this "you can't believe anyone" talking point on a virtual board. Not when it came to this.

@richwicks - I admire your stamina, but at some point, when do you conclude someone's merely a troll?

I guess I understand your motivation if we assume that the counterparty is actually a not a bot(useless to engage) or a shill (who is paid for his efforts), and that you (as you have previously said) are honestly trying to engage them.

Like you, I've tried over many years to expose people to truths beyond the propaganda. Most people who I engaged with looked at me like I was crazy. I mostly focused on medical/health, and now, 30+ years later, the truths I long espoused can't be denied. Given this history, I saw the Coof for what it was. Thankfully, @Rin had the necessary info for effective nutricutical intervention against viral infection.

In the end, I value your responses in that it reveals the true nature of your adversaries. Thanks for that.

stereotomy says

@richwicks - I admire your stamina, but at some point, when do you conclude someone's merely a troll?

Me too, @richwicks has the patience of a saint here. I've only been skimming this thread, but did we get that list of which sources mostly reader uses yet?

RWSGFY says

What he didn't do since Feb 24 is to go on one of his usual anti-war rants.

Yep, I noticed that. It aligned so well with Russia's narrative that it was one of the tell for me classifying him as a propaganda troll.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Why do you fucking trust THEM??

I said it repeatedly that I don't rely on US government sources of information. It apparently went over you. "mostly writer" at his best.

Yet, you are repeating their BS verbatim.

It's like my friend that says he doesn't watch "the news", yet repeats the exact same talking points of "the news". This is because he repeats what his other friends say. Propaganda spreads via word of mouth but it ultimately comes from an authority.

mostly reader says

What those other sources describe is beyond comprehension. Kids killed with their families. Little girls raped. Women gang-raped and then killed, with follow-up incomplete attempts to burn the bodies.

And you're getting this information from whom? Show me.

I watched a 15 year old girl get in front of congress, and sob about what Iraqi soldiers were doing to premature babies in Kuwait. Remember her?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony?source=patrick.net

I don't readily jump to conclusions.

mostly reader says

It happened apparently in 3 stages. The 3d, the most devastating one, happened when the Orcs knew they were leaving and felt that they had nothing to lose.

The full scale of what happened there is still unclear because everything is booby-trapped. As in - there's a dead family inside the house, but the house is booby-trapped, so they need to proceed with caution.

What's your source for this?

mostly reader says

I have no sympathy for a cocksucker who pushes this "you can't believe anyone" talking point on a virtual board. Not when it came to this.

Pfft! You have clear examples where bullshit like this has been peddled before. They did this as recently as 2017 in Syria.

I know what sort of fucking garbage public relations firms like Hill and Knowlton pull. You do too.

So, what are your sources?

Another Nazi Globohomo liberated on sight:

https://youtu.be/_Z9gcV00bMo?source=patrick.net

stereotomy says

@richwicks - I admire your stamina, but at some point, when do you conclude someone's merely a troll?

I don't think he's a troll. I think he's a nut although that might be a little harsh. I don't think he's being dishonest in his professed beliefs. I think he's just incorrect.

stereotomy says

Like you, I've tried over many years to expose people to truths beyond the propaganda. Most people who I engaged with looked at me like I was crazy

Haha. I enjoy being called crazy only to have people realize later on that I was correct. You never get an apology, but you get to feel extra SMUG when they realize you were right all along.

Liberated after friendly chat: https://twitter.com/2022Kharkiv/status/1510598364265603074?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

So, what are your sources?

Happy to share the public ones. Do you speak Russian or Ukrainian?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

So, what are your sources?

Happy to share the public ones. Do you speak Russian or Ukrainian?

Nope, but I can get translations.

Easy to get those today. Might take some time, but I can always do it. So - share your sources.

I'll start with a very well-known one, that will be plenty for you because it's a daily thing.

https://www.youtube.com/c/FeyginLive?source=patrick.net - watch his daily chats with Arestovich (Арестович in Cyrillic)

Arestovich is a Ukrainian intelligence officer with uncanny track record of predictions. "Uncanny track record of predictions" - this is something that your rants SEVERELY lack and which is the ONLY reasonable metric for quality of a source. He predicted bunch of things with uncanny accuracy - Ukraine vs. NATO, Ukraine vs. Russia. He predicted that Russia will invade years ago, and did it with extreme accuracy, time-wise. When he did, his own team labeled him as warmonger. He stayed with his prediction, and it came 100% true.

Furthermore, his info passes my cross-examination from other sources.

That's a start. Once you demonstrate that you actually follow him, I'll share more.