patrick.net

richwicks says

This isn't even a back of the napkin calculation. It makes me fucking crazy that ENGINEERS don't realize this, and people in finance, they don't care, they only follow the money. Government gives subsidies,

Engineers will design, build and deploy stuff that doesn't make economic sense (mainly, constraints are from physics): Concorde SST, Iridium satellite network, Solyndra arrays, French Panama Canal venture, you get it.

It's fun work, it's fascinating work, and it's someone else's money. Maybe I've been one of those myself.

What's not to like?

richwicks says

We don't have to go to war with the Middle East to attain cheap energy.

Yep. That's one we can agree on.

richwicks says

You simply don't understand that energy is abundant,

Oh yes I do understand it's abundant, as I wrote so many times we have abundantly cheap energy. And at multiples of what we're paying now, it'll still be abundant and cheap.

Chill out, man. Try to see around the hate blinders.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Oh yes I do understand it's abundant, as I wrote so many times we have abundantly cheap energy. And at multiples of what we're paying now, it'll still be abundant and cheap.

Again - in order for this to be viable, it would require a RADICAL transformation in society.

Housing would have to be cheaper, people would have to be able to walk to work. The price of food would skyrocket as well. Higher energy creates greater dependency on centralized control, and you know goddamned well what the government will do with that.

Here, you want to reduce energy consumption? Mandate that no vehicle, other than freight, can weigh over 500 lbs and can't exceed capacity of 1000 lbs and they can't be over 3 feet in height from tires to the top of the roof. There, that's 100 mile per gallon car. It's easy to do. We can build these tomorrow, but they would be extremely dangerous to drive on with the current vehicles on the road.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Chill out, man. Try to see around the hate blinders.

You're projecting. I'm explaining the real problems of your silly belief that $1 a mile is affordable to most people. I can tell you don't know any blue collar people that do jobs like sling hash, and check you out at the store. You don't have a clue.

You seem to think "ah, they'll work around it" - no, these people have NO time. I worked at Wendy's when I was 18 to get some extra money for college. Here's what it's like, I knew people who had that as a REAL JOB, they worked not only at Wendy's but like McDonald's as well. The manager would switch up shifts constantly to accommodate them. They were working 50-60 hours a week. This is because overtime pay at a single place is MANDATORY - they could just have worked at Wendy's 10 hours a day for 5 days a week, but that's not legal.

Government creates problems. You have no idea what it's like for the working poor. No clue.

I knew a guy that dropped out of high school who was competing against illegal immigrants for jobs. Of course, he was paid under the table, and he was TERRIFIED he would be caught, because that's jail time for him, but for an illegal, it's inconvenient, but they just move on to another job.

I get irritated by people suggesting solutions and pontificating on what the working class poor can endure. You just don't know and, what, are you 50 or so like me? You've had 1/2 century to figure this out. Liberals at this point PISS ME OFF, because they constantly represent groups they have NEVER talked to or been a part of. If you don't know, fucking learn something about what you're espousing. If you don't you just keep pushing for solutions that HURT the groups that you laughably claim to represent.

richwicks says

I'm explaining the real problems of your silly belief that $1 a mile is affordable to most people.

Please show me the quote where I wrote that.

What I have been writing, is that one dollar's worth of energy is cheap to drive a (modest, 20 mpg) car for one mile, compared to alternatives.

If or when the cost of that amount of energy reaches that point, people will adjust to pay for it. Yes, I agree, for most people the transitions will be painful.

Irichwicks says

You have no idea what it's like for the working poor.

You sure? You know me that well? I've been one of them before, including was homeless (working two part time jobs) for a stretch.

Go ahead and attack the messenger for saying the reality that energy we depend upon is super cheap, or maybe said differently, we depend on super cheap energy.

I'm not the first or only observer who's said so. You can read the blogs of Kunstler, Martenson, (Nicole) Foss, etc.

If the notion gets you angry, you don't need to attack the messenger, calling names like clueless, have no idea, you don't understand, blah blah. Yes I understand the implications, it's the reason I remarked about it. It's a perspective some folks can think about. Or instead they can attack / belittle folks who say so.

Is this how you discuss topics with your kids, your friends, your spouse or partner, whatever?, - lecture them that they are clueless, that they don't know what they're talking about, saying stuff about their personal history that you don't know? You discuss stuff with them like that, or just here on blogging?

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-biden-favors-foreign-over-american (paywall)

Why Biden Favors Foreign Over American Oil

This afternoon President Joe Biden announced the sale of 15 million additional barrels of oil from America’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) and his intention to release more oil this winter. “I have been doing everything in my power to reduce gas prices since Putin's invasion of Ukraine caused these price hikes.”

But what he said is simply not true. Biden has leased less public land and off-shore waters than any president since World War II. He killed the re-opening of a major oil refinery in the U.S. Virgin Islands. And by releasing more oil from the SPR than any president in American history, Biden has repressed private sector investment in oil and gas production. ...

But President Biden's policies are the leading cause of the lack of supply and resulting high prices of oil and gasoline. The U.S. produces more oil in a single day than what it imported from Russia in February. ...

Biden clearly has ulterior motivates. After all, he has never made a similar plea to America’s technology companies, Meta (Facebook), Apple, and Google. Last year, their earnings were $39 billion, $30 billion, and $76 billion, respectively, compared to $23 billion, $21 billion, and $16 billion for Exxon, Shell, and Chevron, respectively. ...

It’s obvious that Democrats are pursuing a long-term strategy to shut down the U.S. oil and gas industry. ...

As such, Biden’s strategy poses real risks for Democrats, which Biden and his aides recognize, and which likely led them to hold today’s news conference. Democrats, in the spring of 2020, killed a proposal by President Donald Trump to replenish the SPR with oil from American producers, not OPEC+ ones, and for $24 a barrel, not the $80 a barrel that the Biden White House promised to OPEC+. When asked about it today, Jean-Pierre waved it away as something from “a different time.”

But Senate Democrats defeated the proposal and later bragged that their party had blocked a “bailout for big oil.” Today, Democrats are still condemning big oil. But they are also asking for nearly three times, $70 a barrel, than what Biden aides reportedly provided the Saudis and OPEC+. As such, the moment is coming soon where when Biden says,. “I have been doing everything in my power to reduce gas prices,” voters and others will have the knowledge and anger to say, “No, you’re not.”

Patrick says

Biden clearly has ulterior motivates.

source: https://fee.org/articles/did-joe-biden-really-say-he-d-close-down-the-oil-industry/

“Would you close down the oil industry?” the president asked.

Biden, normally a disciplined speaker, took the bait.

“I would transition from the oil industry, yes,” Biden said.

This response even seemed to perplex the debate moderator, who asked Biden, “Why would you do that?”

“The oil industry pollutes significantly,” he continued. “It has to be replaced by renewable energy over time.”

Biden’s candor was a bit remarkable. Politicians are renowned for hedging and offering vague responses to straightforward questions. As the Associated Press reports, even the president himself seemed “surprised and pleased by Biden’s comment.”

https://www.csis.org/analysis/biden-makes-sweeping-changes-oil-and-gas-policy

Biden Makes Sweeping Changes to Oil and Gas Policy
January 28, 2021

President Joe Biden has followed through on a campaign pledge by introducing a moratorium on new oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters.

With nearly 25 percent of U.S. oil and gas production coming from federal lands, the policy shift may have significant implications for future investment and production.

The backlash from oil and gas producing states will be fierce and lawsuits have already begun, but the Biden administration views this policy as a key part of its climate agenda and is unlikely to change course.

The Hill
@thehill
23 Oct 2020
Trump: "Would you close down the oil industry?"

Biden: "I would transition from the oil industry, yes."

Trump: "That's a big statement."

Biden: "That is a big statement."

#Debates2020

Patrick says

Biden: "I would transition from the oil industry, yes."

And the Left arrogantly chastises the CEO of Chevron for saying there is not much incentive for the oil industry to expand production in order to meet demand.

.

Patrick says

The Hill
@thehill
23 Oct 2020
Trump: "Would you close down the oil industry?"

Biden: "I would transition from the oil industry, yes."

Trump: "That's a big statement."

Biden: "That is a big statement."

#Debates2020

Elections, ahem selections, of deliberately evil morons have consequences…

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/10/26/biden-created-a-secret-deal-with-saudi-arabia-to-lower-gasoline-prices-ahead-of-midterm-election-leading-to-anger-over-white-house-feeling-double-crossed/

Biden Created a Secret Deal with Saudi Arabia to Lower Gasoline Prices Ahead of Midterm Election, Leading to Anger Over White House Feeling Double-Crossed
October 26, 2022

The extreme vitriol against the recent OPEC+ decision to cut oil output, specifically the extreme Biden anger toward Saudi Arabia, now takes on additional context as the New York Times writes about a secretly negotiated deal between the Kingdom and White House officials that was never executed.

As the Times reveals, over the summer the White House thought their team had negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia for increased oil production that would have lowered oil and gasoline costs in the U.S, strategically timed before the midterm election.

With that agreement in mind, Joe Biden went to Saudi Arabia a few months ago. However, as the western alliance began putting more pressure on Russia and increased the activity within Ukraine, the Saudi’s aligned with OPEC+ to support Russia via lowered oil outputs. The White House felt double-crossed, hence the fury.

Patrick says

As the Times reveals, over the summer the White House thought their team had negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia for increased oil production that would have lowered oil and gasoline costs in the U.S, strategically timed before the midterm election.

Seems like the greenies would be upset about increasing oil production. It would less "carbon" to produce the oil at home, rather than in SA and then transport the oil back here.

Patrick says

However, as the western alliance began putting more pressure on Russia and increased the activity within Ukraine, the Saudi’s aligned with OPEC+ to support Russia via lowered oil outputs.

Saudis are not our friends. Never were, never will be. Times like this lay it bare. It's not Potato they stabbed in the back, it's all of us.

Hugh_Mongous says

Saudis are not our friends. Never were, never will be. Times like this lay it bare.

Same with Israel.

HeadSet says

Hugh_Mongous says

Saudis are not our friends. Never were, never will be. Times like this lay it bare.

Same with Israel.

$3.8 billion US taxpayer's yearly foreign assistance to Israel, makes the only country in the world who get it.

As a percent of government expenditures, our foreign aid is tiny. Well, except for Ukraine.

We send aid to many countries.

Here's some of the top ones.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country

https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-sells-alaska-back-to-russia-so-we-can-start-drilling-for-oil-there-again

ANCHORAGE, AK - The deliberate and premeditated invasion of Ukraine by brutal dictator Vladimir Putin has forced the US to reassess the importance of energy independence. With this new resolve, the Biden Administration has taken its first step toward increasing oil production for Americans by selling Alaska back to Russia so we can start drilling for oil there again.

"Folks, nobody wants to ruin America's beautiful Alaskan wilderness with oil trucks and drilling rigs, come on!" said President Biden in response to questions he thought were coming from a house plant in the West Wing. "But I've never had a problem getting oil from Russia, so there you go, go get him."

Jen Psaki praised Biden's brilliance in finding a solution that would prevent an energy crisis while also preventing new drilling on American land. She pointed out succinctly to journalists, "You see, it's not American land anymore; it's Russian land."

Politicians on both sides of the political aisle criticized Biden for selling Alaska without giving them enough time to sneak friends and family onto the boards of newly-relevant Russian oil companies. They also voiced concern that the negotiator handling both the Alaska sale as well as managing drilling permits was Hunter Biden and not their own children.

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/biden-shouts-no-more-drilling-there

It has begun. Reports of No Diesel in Smaller Appalachian towns on Highways... now Allentown, PA, where a lot of trucks stop and fuel before heading into NYC, Philly, and other Northeastern Routes.

Patrick says

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/biden-shouts-no-more-drilling-there

I don't get this. You take away a resource that 100% of people NEED and use daily. Can't keep blaming this Russia/Ukraine shit. At some point you have to pony up and use the resources we have available to us. How is not drilling the best interest of your citizens? Even the crazy lefties that voted this in.

We're no where near getting off oil. I'm for greener energy. I've done the simple "green" things to reduce energy usage in my house. LED lights in every fixture. Extra seals around doors. Turn down thermostat at night. Shades in the summer to stop solar heating through windows.

That said I won't give up using gas in my lifetime. Ever. If the Dems were so worried about CO2, dump ALL municipal codes/laws that require a trimmed lawn. One of the few times I'll say an HOA did the right thing. They allowed my buddy to do prairie grasses in his front lawn. Which is natural to the damn area. Not 2" trimmed lawns with mowers that blow out more CO2 than a car does in a month after 1 mowing. It's a win/win. More greenery and plants to suck up CO2 and less mower usage.

Hell I have a ditch on the south side of my fence that is easement and basically useless land. I'd love to turn it into a bioswale. Again more greenery, less mowing and it helps my high water table where I live. These are things that make life EASIER for people, but you'll get a god damn ticket for doing it because the "grass" is too long. We could gut CO2 by 10-20% by just allowing natural landscapes. It would help solve the illegal alien issue too as a lot of landscapers would be out of jobs. They then can go work on oil rigs pumping the shit out of the earth that everyone needs daily.

WookieMan says

Patrick says

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/biden-shouts-no-more-drilling-there

I don't get this. You take away a resource that 100% of people NEED and use daily. Can't keep blaming this Russia/Ukraine shit. At some point you have to pony up and use the resources we have available to us. How is not drilling the best interest of your citizens? Even the crazy lefties that voted this in.

We're no where near getting off oil. I'm for greener energy. I've done the simple "green" things to reduce energy usage in my house. LED lights in every fixture. Extra seals around doors. Turn down therm...

I have to take issue with the idea that lawn mowers emit as much CO2 as passenger vehicles. It’s directly related to how much fuel is combusted. If you run your mower once a week and use a half gallon of gas to do so, that’s no where near what a probably average commuting person consumes in one day. Consequently no where near the CO2 emissions either, not that that even really matters.

ForcedTQ says

I have to take issue with the idea that lawn mowers emit as much CO2 as passenger vehicles. It’s directly related to how much fuel is combusted. If you run your mower once a week and use a half gallon of gas to do so, that’s no where near what a probably average commuting person consumes in one day. Consequently no where near the CO2 emissions either, not that that even really matters.

The liberals making up the rues don't care about this.

zzyzzx says

ForcedTQ says

I have to take issue with the idea that lawn mowers emit as much CO2 as passenger vehicles. It’s directly related to how much fuel is combusted. If you run your mower once a week and use a half gallon of gas to do so, that’s no where near what a probably average commuting person consumes in one day. Consequently no where near the CO2 emissions either, not that that even really matters.

The liberals making up the rues don't care about this.

I know. CO2 isn’t the evil boogeyman that they make it out to be.

ForcedTQ says

I have to take issue with the idea that lawn mowers emit as much CO2 as passenger vehicles. It’s directly related to how much fuel is combusted.

CO2 is exhaust from a muffler after burning the fuel. Your mower maybe has a spark arrestor out in CA or fire prone areas. The CO2 from a riding mower or even push mower is exponential worse than a car. There's NO muffler filtering anything.

As a total, it's substantially more than you'd think. Passenger cars emit way less than one would think. Diesel is another conversation. A lawn mower pisses out CO2 like no other vehicle or motor. We don't have to agree that CO2 is a problem or not, but it's just fact. Landscaping lawns puts out fuck tons of CO2.

I like golfing and a well manicured course, but the equipment used is putting out more CO2 than you'd think. Again, I don't care. I'm not giving up oil. You just can't stop people from using a product they've used everyday. But mowing a lawn is worse than driving a car: https://www.onlynaturalenergy.com/grass-lawns-are-an-ecological-catastrophe/

IF CO2 is the issue, we shouldn't be talking about banning drilling. How about stop mowing your lawns? I'm no Mr Green, windmills, EV's, etc. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the lefty/green people. If I want to grow 5' prairie grass in front of my house, where it's natural, fuck off. Don't give me a ticket because my "lawn" was too long. I got rid of CO2. I didn't mow a lawn.

There's a complete disconnect between reality and propaganda at this point. Propaganda is winning.

ForcedTQ says

CO2 isn’t the evil boogeyman that they make it out to be.

It makes a great bogeyman though, as it is impossible to go about modern life without producing CO2. Everyone is a "carbon" maker and that gives the opportunity for control. They could just as well have made a phony science out of "oxygen depletion" as bogeyman where our excessive use of O2 is suffocating plankton.

HeadSet says

It makes a great bogeyman though, as it is impossible to go about modern life without producing CO2.

Cavemen life too.

WookieMan says

ForcedTQ says

I have to take issue with the idea that lawn mowers emit as much CO2 as passenger vehicles. It’s directly related to how much fuel is combusted.

CO2 is exhaust from a muffler after burning the fuel. Your mower maybe has a spark arrestor out in CA or fire prone areas. The CO2 from a riding mower or even push mower is exponential worse than a car. There's NO muffler filtering anything.

As a total, it's substantially more than you'd think. Passenger cars emit way less than one would think. Diesel is another conversation. A lawn mower pisses out CO2 like no other vehicle or motor. We don't have to agree that CO2 is a problem or not, but it's just fact. Landscaping lawns puts out fuck tons of CO2.

I like golfing and a well manicured course, but the equipment used is putting out more CO2 than you'd think. Again, I don't care. I'm not giving up oil. You ...

Wookieman, no, please stop spreading this propaganda.
No shit CO2 is in exhaust from the process of combustion. That article doesn’t say gas powered lawn mowers CO2 emissions are higher gallon for gallon vs passenger vehicles. That is impossible, burn a gallon of gas in either engine and it’s going to emit close to the same CO2, it’s chemistry. It says that lawn mower or off road engines emit “up to” 11 times other pollutants.

By the way, mufflers don’t filter anything but sound from exhaust, catalytic converters convert remaining hydrocarbons to CO2 in reality. You’ve got to be trolling here, right?

People love free shit even if it makes them poorer. Maybe comunism is taking over, socialism is more popular than ever.

ForcedTQ says

catalytic converters convert remaining hydrocarbons to CO2 in reality

It says that lawn mower or off road engines emit “up to” 11 times other pollutants.

Correct, residual carbon monoxide is converted to CO2, even though the catalytic converter is primarily to remove nitrogen compounds produced when atmospheric NO2 is heated in the ICE. Those nitrogen compounds are the "other" pollutants mentioned above.

ForcedTQ says

By the way, mufflers don’t filter anything but sound from exhaust, catalytic converters convert remaining hydrocarbons to CO2 in reality. You’ve got to be trolling here, right?

You're not getting my point. We DON'T HAVE to mow lawns. We DON'T HAVE to water lawns. We DON'T HAVE to hire landscapers that bring a truck and trailer to mow your lawn. We DON'T HAVE to make mowers and ship parts and material to make them on semis driving 1k miles.

IF Democrats were serious about climate change and IF CO2 is the problem, we could cut CO2 5-10% overnight eliminating all ordinances on lawns being too long or you'll get ticketed. Solves water issues as well. My point is they're not serious. They don't fucking care.

Navistar is headquartered somewhat close to me (truck engines). You can make cleaner engines. They tried, but got their ass kicked. I haven't looked into it recently. Mowers are 100% filth though. That's a fact. You burn more gallons per hour. You want to know the biggest pushback for Navistar? Lisle where they're headquartered had a bunch of fucking NIMBY's saying they didn't want them testing diesel engines. The company was trying to emit less and they got push back from Democrats.

This is my point. You can do what they ask, but they won't let you. There are solutions. Less landscaping. Better diesel engines. Oil is here to stay, but we don't need to use as much as we do. Where my house sits is used to be a fucking prairie 150 years ago. No one mowed it. Now there's 800 houses/businesses mowing two times a week during the spring, summer and fall. For what? Somehow the land was fine before we got to it.

And no I'm not trolling. Mowers are exponentially worse than cars. No one cares about fuel efficiency in small engines. Isn't it funny that some suburban towns and cities ban mowing on certain hot summer days for air quality? I don't trust government, but I'm not trolling and I'm not making stuff up.

HeadSet says

Correct, any carbon monoxide is converted to CO2, even though the catalytic converter is primarily to remove nitrogen compounds produced when atmospheric NO2 is heated in the ICE. Those nitrogen compounds are the "other" pollutants mentioned above.

I'm not arguing the CO2 output. I think that's where the message was lost on some. Here in IL we still have prairies. That was the natural state of the land before we built houses. AZ was rock and cactus (simplifying). Now there are lawns. A mower accounting for speed is exponentially worse than a car.

I'm not some hippy dippy green type person. In fact it's because I'm lazy. I don't want to take care of a lawn. Maintain a mower. Weed whacker. But that's what is accepted. If more people stopped maintaining their lawns it would be nice. Less lawn mower noice. Fumes. My buddies house I mentioned before is amazing with natural prairie grass. Creates privacy and is cheaper than a fence.

Elections over let's see gas jump a few bucks this winter.