patrick.net

I've never used a dishwasher.

clambo says

On Feb 14 Germany clearly said that NATO membership for Ukraine was not under consideration.

The US also promised that NATO would expand "one inch" before taking in Poland and the Baltics.

The US promised NATO would not expand “one inch” to the East and since all NATO decisions have to be taken unanimously, the US could easily have blocked the expansion.

The German Reunification Treaty clearly states no NATO forces may be stationed in Former East German Territory. This was signed by both Germanies, Britain, France, the Soviet Union, and the US.

So it is pretty clear that, while there was no binding promise from NATO as an independent entity, Britain, France, Germany, and the US could each have vetoed expansion if they so desired.

This is a good example of NOT acting in good faith.

https://www.quora.com/Did-NATO-promise-not-to-expand-an-inch-towards-east-towards-Russia-in-return-of-Mikhail-Gorbachev-allowing-German-reunification-and-the-freedom-of-Soviet-satellite-states?source=patrick.net

Changing the subject does not change what Putin knew on February 14.

Putin also agreed to respect Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine gave them nuclear missiles, which they did.

NATO was never an invasion force, and Putin knows it.

However, he fears losing his influence over the former satellite countries.

Blaming the USA, NATO, Ukraine for Putin’s aggression is blaming the victim.

Does anyone actually think that NATO was conceived to attack Russia?

clambo says

Putin also agreed to respect Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine gave them nuclear missiles, which they did.

The US didn't respect Ukrainian sovereignty, which the United States also promised to do.

clambo says

Blaming the USA, NATO, Ukraine for Putin’s aggression is blaming the victim.

Oh please. The crackhead son artist of the president is at a no show job in Ukraine.



The US is up to their fucking balls in this shit.

richwicks says

clambo says

Putin also agreed to respect Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine gave them nuclear missiles, which they did.

The US didn't respect Ukrainian sovereignty, which the United States also promised to do.

How so? Remind me when did the US invade Ukraine. How many cities leveled, people killed?

PS. Besides, weren't you supposed to learn back in preschool that somebody else's alleged wrongdoings does not give you free pass for the same (or worse)? Or, more recently, didn't you find out that "But, Officer, everybody was speeding!" does not gets you out of ticket?

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

clambo says

Putin also agreed to respect Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine gave them nuclear missiles, which they did.

The US didn't respect Ukrainian sovereignty, which the United States also promised to do.

How so? Remind me when did the US invade Ukraine. How many cities leveled, people killed?

I don't know how many people that were killed by the pre-puppet government during the Maidan coup but I know for certain that the West doesn't believe that Viktor Yanukovych did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8&source=patrick.net

I am fucking tired of people thinking it's "good" versus "evil". It's so fucking childish. It's two criminal syndicates fighting one another. Idiots root for one side or the other.

No matter how many goddamned times I show leaked conversations of officials doing fucking evil shit, people just pretend it never happened. The US overthrew Ukraine, then they made false promises that Ukraine could enter NATO eventually, with no intention of every allowing that, and then let a bunch of people get killed.

They did the same exact fucking thing with Georgia.

Eric Holder says

PS. Besides, weren't you supposed to learn back in preschool that somebody else's alleged wrongdoings does not give you free pass for the same (or worse)? Or, more recently, didn't you find out that "But, Officer, everybody was speeding!" does not gets you out of ticket?

I have a government that lies to me constantly, calls me a "white supremacist terrorist", and is pushing LGBTQ nonsense on Kindergartners. Do you think I have any allegiance to these fuckers at this point?

If Putin WERE Hitler, well, he's doesn't effect me. He's no threat to me, my government is a threat to me. They've openly stated it. If you're an American, they're a threat to you. Useful idiots die first.

I'm loyal to a government that no longer exists and I hold out hope that maybe they'll come back. We'll see.

richwicks says

How so? Remind me when did the US invade Ukraine. How many cities leveled, people killed?

I don't know how many people that were killed by the pre-puppet government during the Maidan coup but I know for certain that the West doesn't believe that Viktor Yanukovych did it.

Who's "the West"? Some loony movie director with a man crush on Putin? LOL. And did not do what, exactly? Did not refuse to sign the Association Agreement with the EU, which he promised to do during his campaign, after meeting with Putin? He most certainly did - it's a historic fact. Refused to fire his Minister of Internal Affairs after peaceful protestors were beaten bloody on Nov 30, 2013? He most certainly did refuse to fire him, triggering almost half a million strong protest the very next day. Are you saying it was the US who made him refuse to sign the agreement, beat the original protesters and refuse to fire that minister?

And since you're so informed you don't even know how many people died between the start of the protests on Nov 30, 2013 and Yanukovich's run for Moscow on Feb 20, 2014, I'll enlighten you: roughly hundred civilians and less than 20 policemen.

So, back to that invasion by the US. When did it happen?

Eric Holder says

Who's "the West"? Some loony movie director with a man crush on Putin?

You can't see it? Really?

It's the nations that are all in with endless, pointless, wars. Every nation that supported the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia - and accepted the refugees that were created by those wars with NO MISSION and endlessly promote propaganda, and now censorship - that's the west now.

The New USSR.

Eric Holder says

Are you saying it was the US who made him refuse to sign the agreement, beat the original protesters and refuse to fire that minister?

I'm saying protesters are useful idiots that can be mobilized on a few dimes, like Antifa and BLM were here in the United States. I'm saying they'd protest the sky being blue, because they are that stupid and brainless.

Ukraine needed money, and Yanukovych appealed to both the ECB and Russia - and Russia gave him a better deal. Considering how the EU had FUCKED Greece over, it was in the interest for him to work with Russia - but a bunch of NPC twats were programmed to resist that.

I am always tempted to say people are stupid, but they aren't. They are easily controlled - intelligence has nothing to do with it. They can't see when they are being used.

Eric Holder says

So, back to that invasion by the US. When did it happen?

The US avoids invasions. It's cheaper to have coups and then let people die. They did it in Operation Ajax and PBSuccess, and Ukraine, and most recently, the United States itself.

The US isn't acting in the interests of these nations, or even US interests, it's acting in the interests for US oligarchs and multinational corporations - they just charge the US citizenry for it, but they get nothing out of it other than a bunch of propaganda, and mindless smugness about "being on the right side".