patrick.net

HeadSet says

Eman says

Saw this on X and thought of this thread.

And 3 generations later, poor again.

Happy to see someone knows this. There’s an old proverb that states “wealth doesn’t last past 3 generations”, and there’s a good reason for it. 😅

There are exceptions of course. Looking at Trump’s family, I believe wealth should last more than 3 generations for them: Fred Trump, Donald, Ivanka, and their kids……Good for them.

Eman says

Happy to see someone knows this. There’s an old proverb that states “wealth doesn’t last past 3 generations”, and there’s a good reason for it. 😅

There are exceptions of course. Looking at Trump’s family, I believe wealth should last more than 3 generations for them: Fred Trump, Donald, Ivanka, and their kids……Good for them.

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Eman's reading assignment: https://joelkotkin.com/are-asians-the-new-jews/

Coming from you Senor Eman, that does not surprise me as far as you prophesying about preserving wealth from one generation to another.

If anything set up a trust managed by a lawyer (who is at least one-half honest) such as have the family assets in a 50% index funds / 50% bonds fund (easier than owning rental properties) in case the kids are a bunch of idiots who would piss the inheritance money away.
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AD says

in case the kids are a bunch of idiots who would piss the inheritance money away.

Endless stories of exactly this happening.

Eman says

There’s an old proverb that states “wealth doesn’t last past 3 generations”,

Yep, "Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves is 3 generations." Grampa builds the business from nothing, kids live well on the profits, grandkids blow the rest supporting a lifestyle.

HeadSet says

Eman says

There’s an old proverb that states “wealth doesn’t last past 3 generations”,

Yep, "Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves is 3 generations." Grampa builds the business from nothing, kids live well on the profits, grandkids blow the rest supporting a lifestyle.

Did this happen to the Trump family? It’s all about the work ethic.

I have a friend who is very well off. His dad was a founder of a few startup companies, which got bought out by big names. I saw a bunch of achievement awards when I was at his/his dad’s former office. He lives in a very affluent town where the median home price is $3.5M. He still runs a couple semiconductor companies, which I believe, were passed down to him. Both he and his wife are well educated. They’re pushing their kids hard in schools too…Tiger parents if you will. Our common ground is real estate investments. He owns office buildings where his companies operate too. I have a feeling they have a higher chance of lasting more than 3 generations.

In this country, there are instruments that can make the wealth last for a very long time as @AD alluded above for people with really deep pockets. Previous generations didn’t have this instrument so 3 generations seem about right.

Eman says

Did this happen to the Trump family? It’s all about the work ethic.

Of course. Nobody said the 3 generations is applicable 100% of the time. It does not apply to Rockefeller levels of wealth nor to those, as you say, acquired a work ethic from the patriarch. It does happen often enough to become a proverb.

Eman says

In this country, there are instruments that can make the wealth last for a very long time as AD alluded above for people with really deep pockets. Previous generations didn’t have this instrument so 3 generations seem about right.

Yes Mister Eman as its all about cash flow as well as balance sheet (net equity or assets minus liabilities). Its about the spoiled kids not pissing away the inheritance money and being careful as far as their spending and lifestyle choices.

Previous generations had land and real estate which they could rent out to sharecroppers, for events like weddings, etc.

And by the way in case this was missed before, here is your reading assignment Eman: https://joelkotkin.com/are-asians-the-new-jews/

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Eman says

Both he and his wife are well educated. They’re pushing their kids hard in schools too…Tiger parents if you will. Our common ground is real estate investments.

Tiger parents is dog whistle or code word for Asian parents like Tiger Mom ... which is synonymous with an over ambitious and controlling mom
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HeadSet says

Eman says

There’s an old proverb that states “wealth doesn’t last past 3 generations”,

Yep, "Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves is 3 generations." Grampa builds the business from nothing, kids live well on the profits, grandkids blow the rest supporting a lifestyle.

Yep, my son inlaw's grandfather worked his ass off and actually died in his office. He raised his family in one of the apartment complexes for a number of years even. Yes, the apartament was on a top floor and was combined with another apartment but he never owned a Ferrari or mansions.

AD says

And by the way in case this was missed before, here is your reading assignment Eman: https://joelkotkin.com/are-asians-the-new-jews/

I agree with his assessments. I remember reading an article when Trump was contesting few years back that 85% of Indian descends born in US who know nothing about India aligned with salve owning/craving Dems!! I think this number can not be much different for other Asian groups. All of them are highly "educated"!

Blue says

AD says

And by the way in case this was missed before, here is your reading assignment Eman: https://joelkotkin.com/are-asians-the-new-jews/

I agree with his assessments. I remember reading an article when Trump was contesting few years back that 85% of Indian descends born in US who know nothing about India aligned with salve owning/craving Dems!! I think this number can not be much different for other Asian groups. All of them are highly "educated"!

Vietnamese are predominately Republican leaning. My dad’s and my generation X come from military family. Maybe the millennial and Gen Z are being brainwashed into believing the 💩. However, aren’t they the ones who claim nothing is affordable for their generations? Well, their votes have consequences. BOO!

Here’s an excerpt from the linked article

“The other, potentially more damaging assault, comes from the progressive left, which views ethnic success as socially regressive rather than a validation of societal openness.” - Since when is America against success? Out of jealousy?

Eman says

“The other, potentially more damaging assault, comes from the progressive left, which views ethnic success as socially regressive rather than a validation of societal openness.” - Since when is America against success? Out of jealousy?

Well Mister Eman, have you heard of school board member Alison Collins (who is not far from you) ? She publicly stated meritocracy is racist especially standardized testing.

She went full assault on local public schools as far as reforming them to cater more to historically disadvantaged minorities (not your demographic group, Eman).

And you may ask how that impacts housing as in home values ? It drives them down with that type of local population movement.

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AD says

Eman says

“The other, potentially more damaging assault, comes from the progressive left, which views ethnic success as socially regressive rather than a validation of societal openness.” - Since when is America against success? Out of jealousy?

Well Mister Eman, have you heard of school board member Alison Collins (who is not far from you) ? She publicly stated meritocracy is racist especially standardized testing.

She went full assault on local public schools as far as reforming them to cater more to historically disadvantaged minorities (not your demographic group, Eman).

And you may ask how that impacts housing as in home values ? It drives them down with that type of local population movement.

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Then let’s find out. It is what it is. I guess they’re grouping Asians with “White privileged”. Again, it is what it is. Jealousy is a bitch. It’s always someone else’s fault why they can’t succeed in America, the land of many many opportunities.

Eman says

Then let’s find out. It is what it is. I guess they’re grouping Asians with “White privileged”. Again, it is what it is. Jealousy is a bitch. It’s always someone else’s fault why they can’t succeed in America, the land of many many opportunities.

You are correct Asians are lumped in the white privilege group. But it is not an is what it is scenario. That's like saying inner city black on black murders is what it is. Something needs to change on many fronts. I don't want to see blacks kill each other. I don't need people to try and put me down as a white male for what? Raising a black kid from a broken home?

Our culture has gone to shit and it generally blames white males. It's not okay. I love my wife, have two kids and took in my nephew. We need to bring back family. Black on black crime would plummet. And I'm not talking extended family. Your spouse and kids. Your trust circle. We start focusing on that before any thing else, we'll be a better society.

Most parents are negligent in todays world as well. So that doesn't help. The white male shaming is sick. And that does include Asians. Fact is we make the world work. Be it engineering or math or fixing a water main break. White males make our society work.

Either way we need more focus on family and not the other bull shit around us. Have good friends. But also don't say it is what it is. That's not a good mindset Eman. Don't lower the bar. You sometimes say you can't control it. You can. Take control of it dude.

A former McDonald’s worker has sparked discussion after claiming that the company is now catering to those with higher incomes.

TikTok user Chef Mike Haracz (@chefmikeharacz) is a former McDonald’s corporate chef who has previously made waves on the platform after revealing information about the company. Previous hits from the TikToker include sharing the worst time to go to McDonald’s, revealing the truth about McDonald’s birthday cakes, and offering an explanation as to why the McDonald’s menu doesn’t change often.

Now, he’s inspired debate after claiming that McDonald’s has admitted that it is moving away from low-income customers.

“In an earnings call this morning, [McDonald’s] fully admit that they are losing the value customers, specifically those that are making $45,000 a year or less,” he says in the video, which currently has over 1 million views. “They are losing them to the grocery store, so they fully admit you can go to the store and make the same food for a lot cheaper.”

As the video continues, Haracz notes that McDonald’s has claimed profitability even as they lose foot traffic in their restaurants. This means that, though there may be fewer customers, the higher prices cause those buying from the fast food establishment to pay more, eventually resulting in more income for McDonald’s.

“Lower income folk—McDonald’s is not the place you want to go for affordable food options anymore,” he says. “They said, maybe in the future they’ll try to target lower income folks. The issue is gonna be they’ll probably make portion sizes that are ridiculous. You’re still gonna be paying a lot of money for what you get.”

This is a phenomenon widespread across the fast food industry. In a New York Times article titled, “Is the Entire Economy Gentrifying?,” authors Jason Karaian and Jeanna Smialek introduce the idea of “premiumization.” This refers to the tendency of companies to “[embrace] offerings that cater to higher-income customers—people who are willing and able to pay more for products and services.”

This takes multiple forms, including limiting discounts and increasing the perceived quality of the product, either through add-ons or through appearance changes that make the product look and feel more “premium.”

Haracz is correct in noting that McDonald’s singled out lower-income customers during a recent earnings call, though they do not directly say that they are attempting to eliminate that consumer base. Instead, they characterize this market as a “battleground.”

“…Where you see the pressure with the U.S. consumer is that low-income consumer. So call it, $45,000 and under,” said McDonald’s CEO Chris Kempczinski. “That consumer is pressured. From an industry standpoint, we actually saw that cohort decrease in the most recent quarter, particularly I think as eating at home has become more affordable.”

“If you think about middle income, high income, we’re not seeing any real change in behavior with those. We continue to gain share with those groups,” Kempczinski added later in the call. “But the battleground is certainly with that low-income consumer. And I think what you’re going to see as you head into 2024 is probably more attention to what I would describe as affordability.”

In an email to the Daily Dot, Haracz explained why the company referred to this group as a “battleground” market.

“It is a battleground market because it is the biggest consumer base they have been losing over the years, and they are less brand loyal, making it harder to bring them to the restaurant,” he stated.

“Their affordability means much smaller portion sizes due to the overpricing of their current core menu items,” he continued.
https://www.dailydot.com/news/mcdonalds-45k-customers/

A photo posted by one frustrated visitor showed them having to fork out more than $20 for a couple of Egg McMuffins and another breakfast sandwich, with the customer asking: "What has the world come to?"

McDonald's explains on its website that its franchises can set their own prices, but this can lead to unavoidable inflation in line with increasing costs and high-demand.

In the wake of the backlash, McDonald's CEO Chris Kempczinski spoke about the impacts of the price hikes as he revealed a decrease in sales.

Where Wall Street had predicted a growth in sales of 4.7 percent in the last quarter, sales for McDonald's actually grew just 3.4 percent.
https://www.unilad.com/news/food-and-drink/mcdonalds-ceo-response-prices-backlash-802176-20240206

Yes, yes, McD's is pure garbage. BUT, there are many moron grown-ass adults that still eat many meals there, and that's baked into the economy.

Meanwhile, Dollar Tree attracting more affluent customers

Family Dollar is largely a local store that sells everyday needs at low price points. Dollar Tree sells things at a low price point, including everyday needs, but it also sells a wide variety of products that are more discretionary in nature. Shopping at a Dollar Tree is something of a scavenger hunt, as you look for fun products at bargain prices. While economic concerns have clearly benefited both nameplates, the scavenger hunt of Dollar Tree has been a bigger winner.

That company was pretty clear about what was going on when it held its third-quarter 2023 earnings conference call. According to CEO Rick Dreiling: "Dollar Tree is attracting customers from a broader range of income levels. Most of our new customers over the past year have household incomes over $125,000, and this income demographic was a significant contributor to Dollar Tree's Quarter 3 comp growth."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dollar-tree-attracting-more-wealthy-145920607.html

Personal anecdote - the one near me, which I go to to stock up on boxed milk for $1.25 for my kids and for the food supply, is expanding into a Super Dollar Tree, I found out. Can't wait until Valentine's Day is over so I can snatch up all the marked down candy.

NAR just lost a massive lawsuit in Missouri over commissions in a $1.8B (B for Billion) Mega-Verdict
https://fortune.com/2023/11/02/national-association-realtors-class-action-verdict-60-billion-commissions-ever-year/

Marry the House, Divorce the Rate: Agents received guidance from the NAR legal squad that agents should stop using that phrase, as it 'could' be misleading. Meaning that in light of several recent lawsuits, NAR is worried they might get their asses sued over it, especially when it's unclear exactly what interest rates will be doing this year. I heard this on the radio, trying to find Sauce.

Eman says

Then let’s find out. It is what it is. I guess they’re grouping Asians with “White privileged”. Again, it is what it is. Jealousy is a bitch. It’s always someone else’s fault why they can’t succeed in America, the land of many many opportunities.

The Leftist term is "White Adjacent". It's not just East Asians now, but South Asians are increasing lumped in that category.

Interestingly, rich Middle Easterners who own property in Amman and Brooklyn or Teheran and Los Angeles aren't. I guess only Muslim Middle Easterners are oppressed, not Christian or Jewish ones. Many leftists would be happy to put a Marionite Christian or Armenian Christian or Israeli Jew in "White Adjacent" category, but not an Iranian or Levantine Muslim.

Which goes to show that Resentment Culture isn't logical.

AmericanKulak says

Yes, yes, McD's is pure garbage. BUT, there are many moron grown-ass adults that still eat many meals there, and that's baked into the economy.

I think I'm a decade deep in no McDonalds. I love egg McMuffins but I can make the same or better at home and not have to get in the car and it's cheaper.

Fast food has an uphill challenge in the upper income market in my opinion. I literally don't know a 6 figure employee or business owner that eats McDonalds. Maybe in CA since most are rich poor if that makes sense. If I go out I'm sitting down and relaxing. Not eating shit in my car or bringing soggy trash food. And that's not saying some restaurants don't suck, but I'm a sit down guy for food.

I don't eat breakfast often, but brunch is the best with a mimosa. Caught my mother in law of guard with it. She's a drunk. She thought I only drank beer. I love me a Saturday/Sunday or vacation mimosa. Call me gay, whatever. They're good. A little pineapple or orange juice. We're talking a 1/2 ounce. Nice morning fuzzy buzz. Puts me in a good mood for the day.

As I previously mentioned, making $350-$500k/year ain’t 💩 here in the Bay Area. When everyone is “rich”, no one is rich.

Which shithole has households needing to make an average $500k/year?



https://www.paloaltoonline.com/real-estate/2024/02/15/san-mateo-just-became-the-only-county-in-california-where-you-need-to-earn-more-than-500k-annually-to-afford-a-median-priced-home/

Eman says

Which shithole has households needing to make an average $500k/year?

Mister Eman, third-world shitholes have two-classes only...rich and poor, or the have's and the have nots.. hence California is a third-world shithole

Very Respectfully, AD

AD says

Eman says

Which shithole has households needing to make an average $500k/year?

Mister Eman, third-world shitholes have two-classes only...rich and poor, or the have's and the have nots.. hence California is a third-world shithole

Very Respectfully, AD

Which third world shithole has this household income number can you share?

Eman says

Which third world shithole has this household income number can you share?

You're conflating income and cost of living. I can live in Costa Rica with the same income at 10X's less at least than CA. Work smarter, not harder. I'd put Costa as a 2nd world country. Pricy on the coast, but 3 miles inland it's cheap as can be. You CA guys just have to admit you live in an expensive place and the income doesn't keep up.

AD is probably getting into this territory in the near future. The Panhandle is booming. Inland you generally don't worry too much about hurricanes. Otherwise it's an extremely cheap area with no state income taxes. Making $500k/yr that you can do anywhere in the country but pay 7 figures for a house? That's retardation on a level where you should see a doctor.... That gets me beach front in FL with no state income taxes.

Eman says

AD says

Eman says

Which shithole has households needing to make an average $500k/year?

Mister Eman, third-world shitholes have two-classes only...rich and poor, or the have's and the have nots.. hence California is a third-world shithole

Very Respectfully, AD

Which third world shithole has this household income number can you share?

There are plenty of shithole countries where the rich are the only ones who can afford to buy decent homes. California is identical to them in regards to this matter, Mister Eman.

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AD says

There are plenty of shithole countries where the rich are the only ones who can afford to buy decent homes. California is identical to them in regards to this matter, Mister Eman.

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Not even countries. States. Since I know the area and have literally probably driven by this house. This is the Panhandle. AD probably knows the area possibly. This is a $3M house easy in CA that close to the beach. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/703-Sandpiper-Cir-Destin-FL-32541/45972452_zpid/

I think there's a disconnect on the discussion. I can make $500k in the panhandle no problem or CA. I can get this house for 70% less than it would be in CA. Good climate. Slight hurricane risk. No earthquakes. And the BIGGIE. NO INCOME TAX.

You’ve lost me Wookie. If I recalled correctly, you previously mentioned you and your wife made more than $100/hour. Now you claim you can make $500k in the panhandle no problem or CA? Maybe I misunderstood somewhere somehow?

If CA is such a shithole, why are there so many VC’s and billionaires live here? Can you guys share your 2 cents? Maybe these VC’s and billionaires don’t travel and don't know any better?

@AD, how many Patneters do you recall who called CA a shithole?

I travel 6-8 times a year, in state, out of state and out of the country. I don’t share this stuff because people call it “bragging”.

It’s interesting that I started investing in real estate in 2009 so about 15 years. I found Patnet shortly after I started investing in real estate. I’ve lived in the Bay Area for almost 35 years. Funny that I’ve always liked real estate and started to learn about Bay Area real estate market since. I grew up during the “Tom Vu” era if you know who that guy is.

Since early 2000’s, I’ve traveled to different states and checked out real estate there for investment purposes. Each single time, I came back home, I felt I should be investing here. The grass is NOT greener on the other side.

Around 2015, after my biz partner and I have successfully invested in over more than handful apartment buildings around SJSU, we started to look elsewhere and see if we could replicate our biz model. We traveled to Fresno and checked out buildings around FSU. We came back and told ourselves “we have a great biz model here, let’s stay here. The grass is NOT greener on the other side.” Occasionally, we got intrigued by the cheapness of real estate elsewhere so we traveled and wrote off the trips. Again, we came back home and said forget about it. The grass is NOT greener on the other side.

My friend just shared this stat for the counties around the Bay Area, where some of you call them “shithole”. Just for giggles. 😂

Eman says

AD, how many Patneters do you recall who called CA a shithole?

I think GNL and Wookie, for starters

I think Patrick and Rich Wicks also have made comments about it being a shithole.

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Let this sink in.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ETOTALUSQ176N

see above link, as the estimate is about 146 million housing units in the United States

compare to a population of about 335 million

I assume the population figure includes illegal immigrants as that is used to determine number of Congressional seats, so California benefits from that

I am not sure if the housing units count includes people who may rent their basement.

For example, they converted their finished basement to its own apartment or accessory dwelling unit, and it does not show up on local property tax records. This is common in places like Nassau County (Long Island, NY).

Eman says

You’ve lost me Wookie. If I recalled correctly, you previously mentioned you and your wife made more than $100/hour. Now you claim you can make $500k in the panhandle no problem or CA? Maybe I misunderstood somewhere somehow?

You didn't read dude. I'm saying you can make $500k in the panhandle AND buy a house 10X's cheaper AND no state income taxes. You're the one that brought up $500k income.

Eman says

I travel 6-8 times a year, in state, out of state and out of the country. I don’t share this stuff because people call it “bragging”.

What? Talking about travel is bragging? Nah, I'll just talk about my real estate prowess? Jesus Christ dude the hypocrisy of what you said is hysterical. I'd rather hear about people's adventures and not a 20 unit building.

If your income is passive, traveling 6-8 times a year is a joke. You can work from anywhere. You still haven't mentioned where. It's not bragging. It's sharing experiences. I'd love to share my knowledge of the USIV's. Doing math on a building is for 7th graders.

Part of me is starting to think you're a fake if I'm being honest. Posting links to websites doesn't mean you bought or sold anything. Post a photo. All you do is fuck with people. I've lived the RE life and everyone is a liar. EVERYONE. I'm picking up on it here.

WookieMan says

I've lived the RE life and everyone is a liar. EVERYONE.

I am not in real estate but I don't disbelieve this statement. It ties into Patrick's sticker, "Debt is slavery"

gabbar says

WookieMan says

I've lived the RE life and everyone is a liar. EVERYONE.

I am not in real estate but I don't disbelieve this statement. It ties into Patrick's sticker, "Debt is slavery"

Debt is necessary. Fact of life. My issue with Eman's comment is travel is bragging and talking about real estate wins isn't bragging? Doesn't compute at all.

I'd rather teach people about new places to visit and not a building or property someone "supposedly" made money off of. No one here is buying the building or renting in it. You might go to a place a user here has mentioned and get some insight. If I went to Napa I'd reach out to users here. I know mell is in wine country now.

I don't need to know about a RE deal in CA that I'd never buy or deal with. Congrats on the gains, but that's a bigger brag than talking about travel. I don't think Eman travels. He hasn't even mentioned a location.

gabbar says

It ties into Patrick's sticker, "Debt is slavery"

You can make it work for you such as you get a 3% rate mortgage for 30 years instead of paying cash for around $200,000 townhome.

That $200,000 in cash can earn conservatively about 3% annual real return in a 60 bond/40 fund stocks while the townhome's average annual appreciation (after housing inflation) is 1%.

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AD says

gabbar says

It ties into Patrick's sticker, "Debt is slavery"

You can make it work for you such as you get a 3% rate mortgage for 30 years instead of paying cash for around $200,000 townhome.

That $200,000 in cash can earn conservatively about 3% annual real return in a 60 bond/40 fund stocks while the townhome's average annual appreciation (after housing inflation) is 1%.

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I think the "debt is slavery" refers to consumer debt. Using debt to buy rental properties or other income producing assets is outside the scope.

As far as your personal home, if you are in a 3% mortgage environment, then CD and other safe investments are paying like .5% or even less. Investing in financials, even your "conservative" fund, can go up, down, or sideways. If you can pay cash for the house, you are getting a guaranteed return on that 3%. Also note that mortgages are not without closing costs, as the typical borrower must pay an origination fee and points. Also, if you are buying from a builder, the price goes down if you pay cash. The "annual appreciation" is not a factor, since you get that whether you pay cash or borrow.

AD says

You can make it work for you such as you get a 3% rate mortgage for 30 years instead of paying cash for around $200,000 townhome.

That $200,000 in cash can earn conservatively about 3% annual real return in a 60 bond/40 fund stocks while the townhome's average annual appreciation (after housing inflation) is 1%.

Touche. Maybe the problem is the way I was brought up, in a slightly different culture. I understand what you are saying though.

gabbar says

AD says

You can make it work for you such as you get a 3% rate mortgage for 30 years instead of paying cash for around $200,000 townhome.

That $200,000 in cash can earn conservatively about 3% annual real return in a 60 bond/40 fund stocks while the townhome's average annual appreciation (after housing inflation) is 1%.

Touche. Maybe the problem is the way I was brought up, in a slightly different culture. I understand what you are saying though.

Please elaborate more as far as your culture and the way you were brought up.

I have seen before whereas someone gets a credit card loan of $15,000 for 0% for 12 months and invests that money in something relatively safe earnings 5% in one year.

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AD says

There are plenty of shithole countries where the rich are the only ones who can afford to buy decent homes.

California is identical to one of them in regards to this matter, Mister Eman