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silver dime buys gallon of gas
invite response
2022 May 1, 12:18am 16,288 views 93 comments
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38
mell
2022 Oct 19, 9:42pm
ad says
Yeah but we do not have an unemployment problem at all in this recession, it's purely inflationary. In fact it's the opposite, we don't have enough workers for essential services as people have left the workforce in droves, moved back in with their parents or stay in a roommate situation forever or found a way to get by by abandoning the quest for keeping up with the joneses and instead focus on exploiting the leftoid welfare/disability state, stimmy checks and section 8. Or just steal regularly under $950 to make a living, tax free. There aren't any mass layoffs and there won't be any, this is a dysfunct economy of the unwilling to work, and some like truck drivers priced out of work, caused by leftoid marxism. Good news is you can always make money if you know how to hustle. Bad news is you are up against 8% inflation pa, few will beat it but it's def possible if you work hard and invest smart.
Phillips Curve applies. So Fed was referring to how 2% to 3% inflation will result in higher unemployment.
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Yeah but we do not have an unemployment problem at all in this recession, it's purely inflationary. In fact it's the opposite, we don't have enough workers for essential services as people have left the workforce in droves, moved back in with their parents or stay in a roommate situation forever or found a way to get by by abandoning the quest for keeping up with the joneses and instead focus on exploiting the leftoid welfare/disability state, stimmy checks and section 8. Or just steal regularly under $950 to make a living, tax free. There aren't any mass layoffs and there won't be any, this is a dysfunct economy of the unwilling to work, and some like truck drivers priced out of work, caused by leftoid marxism. Good news is you can always make money if you know how to hustle. Bad news is you are up against 8% inflation pa, few will beat it but it's def possible if you work hard and invest smart.
39
AD
2022 Oct 19, 10:10pm
AD
2022 Oct 19, 10:10pm
mell says
Yeah,the latest generation is not into the rat race as much and are not looking to impress their high school classmates at their 5 or 10 year high school reunion.
Woke statist groups funded with Chicom and Soros money promote tolerance of substance abuse, freeloading, and mental illness as alternative lifestyles.
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. Or just steal regularly under $950 to make a living, tax free. There aren't any mass layoffs and there won't be any, this is a dysfunct economy of the unwilling to work, caused by leftoid marxism.
Yeah,the latest generation is not into the rat race as much and are not looking to impress their high school classmates at their 5 or 10 year high school reunion.
Woke statist groups funded with Chicom and Soros money promote tolerance of substance abuse, freeloading, and mental illness as alternative lifestyles.
.
40
Hugh_Mongous
2022 Oct 19, 10:47pm
B.A.C.A.H. says
Yep, an average person nowadays has no experience to tell real silver from some other alloy, so they most probably won't accept it.
I don't think someone would trade gasoline or food with me for silver.
Yep, an average person nowadays has no experience to tell real silver from some other alloy, so they most probably won't accept it.
41
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 11:50am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 11:50am
mell says
The US dollar is the reserve fiat paper that backs all the other fiat papers. If it goes down, they all do.
Do you really own your house? No mortgage, no taxes? If not, and your ability to make those payments is wiped out, how will you keep it? A collapse of the fiat is really a collapse of the system, an unwinding of all the debt. Every business that borrows goes under. No more Ubers in the red for years but still operational. Unless you work for yourself, your job likely will be gone, or you'll be competing with more people than ever for what's left. Are you in the top 1% of your field? And that's assuming your field isn't wiped out entirely.
Assuming the company you hold stock in doesn't go under, the re-valuation to non-inflation levels will still likely cause you to lose 90% of the value. Unless you are Warren Buffet, you lose everything.
But you don't need my opinion, read for yourself how people have fared during currency collapses. History is lined with examples.
This never made sense to me. Maybe if you hold fiat currency only and have that imo crazy belief that the dollar will be worthless soon against other currencies (currently it's going the opposite way), you may lose it all, but most people have assets, houses, stocks, maybe precious metals. Any asset of any practical value will sell and convert to whatever the new currency du jour is. How do you see people losing everything? I'm not disputing money printing and debt has debased our currency and that most countries have too much debt (/gdp), but assets will always retain their intrinsic worth, so will services people can provide, if they are able ad willing to work, where's the "collapse"?
The US dollar is the reserve fiat paper that backs all the other fiat papers. If it goes down, they all do.
Do you really own your house? No mortgage, no taxes? If not, and your ability to make those payments is wiped out, how will you keep it? A collapse of the fiat is really a collapse of the system, an unwinding of all the debt. Every business that borrows goes under. No more Ubers in the red for years but still operational. Unless you work for yourself, your job likely will be gone, or you'll be competing with more people than ever for what's left. Are you in the top 1% of your field? And that's assuming your field isn't wiped out entirely.
Assuming the company you hold stock in doesn't go under, the re-valuation to non-inflation levels will still likely cause you to lose 90% of the value. Unless you are Warren Buffet, you lose everything.
But you don't need my opinion, read for yourself how people have fared during currency collapses. History is lined with examples.
42
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 11:59am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 11:59am
B.A.C.A.H. says
And if all they have to give you is Weimer style wheel barrels full of paper?
B.A.C.A.H. says
They don't need to seize gold and silver, they just need to roll out the CDBC's, and for force everyone to use them.
If you're "redeeming" metal for paper in a crises situation, you're going the wrong way. If you're talking post-crisis, a high tax would just keep all the action in the black markets, and cause their markets to collapse. They need our labor, our time, our abilities. They can't do shit without us.
I think people will barter in what has value, and the more easily divisible, the better. There was such revulsion against paper money after the Revolution that the idea had to be buried until people had forgotten. This will be worse, and the stigma in people's minds will be far sharper, and last far longer. After this collapse, I don't see paper money or central banks having any place left in this world for at least a hundred years.
One thing I learned in the Financial Crisis was that sovereign states made good on their versions of FDIC type deposit insurance:
And if all they have to give you is Weimer style wheel barrels full of paper?
B.A.C.A.H. says
Regarding hoarding precious metals, the US government already seized gold in 1934. They can do so again. Or else (more likely, in my opinion) they can tax the redemption of it so heavily that it won't be an effective hedge-hoard. Maybe retailers of gasoline and food (and electricity) will accept silver bullion for more than the face value of it on the coins. Maybe. What do you think?
They don't need to seize gold and silver, they just need to roll out the CDBC's, and for force everyone to use them.
If you're "redeeming" metal for paper in a crises situation, you're going the wrong way. If you're talking post-crisis, a high tax would just keep all the action in the black markets, and cause their markets to collapse. They need our labor, our time, our abilities. They can't do shit without us.
I think people will barter in what has value, and the more easily divisible, the better. There was such revulsion against paper money after the Revolution that the idea had to be buried until people had forgotten. This will be worse, and the stigma in people's minds will be far sharper, and last far longer. After this collapse, I don't see paper money or central banks having any place left in this world for at least a hundred years.
43
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 12:00pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 20, 12:00pm
Hugh_Mongous says
Those of us who do are the same ones who've been stocking up. It will be our market, and because we know the value, they'll learn it because that's the only way they'll be able to get what we have.
Yep, an average person nowadays has no experience to tell real silver from some other alloy, so they most probably won't accept it.
Those of us who do are the same ones who've been stocking up. It will be our market, and because we know the value, they'll learn it because that's the only way they'll be able to get what we have.
44
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 20, 12:10pm
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 20, 12:10pm
NuttBoxer says
And the rest of us will keep collecting the interest you pay in taxes and loans, and the dividends you pay when buying services and stuff, including even the mining companies, the gun companies and whatnot.
Those of us who do are the same ones who've been stocking up. It will be our market, and because we know the value, they'll learn it because that's the only way they'll be able to get what we have.
And the rest of us will keep collecting the interest you pay in taxes and loans, and the dividends you pay when buying services and stuff, including even the mining companies, the gun companies and whatnot.
45
AD
2022 Oct 20, 3:23pm
AD
2022 Oct 20, 3:23pm
NuttBoxer says
So you see that much of an economic collapse within the next 50 years to result in this ?
Milton Friedman wrote about how both parties of a transaction have to believe they got a fair deal in order to maintain a healthy free enterprise system and economy.
If there is that much of a Mad Max style collapse, then economy will be based on bartering to the lowest level of survivability which is potable water, food, shelter, housing, and medical care.
It will be interesting to see how so one barters with a medical doctor to get urgent care for a wound based on them only having 10 egg laying chickens.
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I don't see paper money or central banks having any place left in this world for at least a hundred years.
So you see that much of an economic collapse within the next 50 years to result in this ?
Milton Friedman wrote about how both parties of a transaction have to believe they got a fair deal in order to maintain a healthy free enterprise system and economy.
If there is that much of a Mad Max style collapse, then economy will be based on bartering to the lowest level of survivability which is potable water, food, shelter, housing, and medical care.
It will be interesting to see how so one barters with a medical doctor to get urgent care for a wound based on them only having 10 egg laying chickens.
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46
mell
2022 Oct 20, 3:31pm
NuttBoxer says
No it won't go down, all fiat currencies debase from money printing, but some more than others as they print more which causes the current run on the dollar you're seeing. Your wages and assets go up, as long as there isn't a supply problem of goods and services how can there be a collapse? Your mortgage is denominated in the same fiat so it will adjust. Once the majority of earth's inhabitants don't want to have anything to do with the greenback then we'll have a problem. Currently it's looking like the opposite. Doesn't mean what the Fed is doing is ok or good in any way, but the dollar's demise has been called too many times with nothing to show for. The Euro is worth 98 cents right now, you can live very well in Europe drawing an American salary atm, almost like a king.
The US dollar is the reserve fiat paper that backs all the other fiat papers. If it goes down, they all do.
Do you really own your house? No mortgage, no taxes? If not, and your ability to make those payments is wiped out, how will you keep it?
No it won't go down, all fiat currencies debase from money printing, but some more than others as they print more which causes the current run on the dollar you're seeing. Your wages and assets go up, as long as there isn't a supply problem of goods and services how can there be a collapse? Your mortgage is denominated in the same fiat so it will adjust. Once the majority of earth's inhabitants don't want to have anything to do with the greenback then we'll have a problem. Currently it's looking like the opposite. Doesn't mean what the Fed is doing is ok or good in any way, but the dollar's demise has been called too many times with nothing to show for. The Euro is worth 98 cents right now, you can live very well in Europe drawing an American salary atm, almost like a king.
47
RWSGFY
2022 Oct 20, 8:16pm
RWSGFY
2022 Oct 20, 8:16pm
NuttBoxer says
I don't see how are you going to persuade somebody who has something real like food, energy or clothes you need that these old worn coins are worth more than what is written on them. "Son, it says 25 cents right there on the coin you gave me so why should I believe you that it's really $10? I'll just keep my jerry can of gasoline thankyouverymuch".
Hugh_Mongous says
Yep, an average person nowadays has no experience to tell real silver from some other alloy, so they most probably won't accept it.
Those of us who do are the same ones who've been stocking up. It will be our market, and because we know the value, they'll learn it because that's the only way they'll be able to get what we have.
I don't see how are you going to persuade somebody who has something real like food, energy or clothes you need that these old worn coins are worth more than what is written on them. "Son, it says 25 cents right there on the coin you gave me so why should I believe you that it's really $10? I'll just keep my jerry can of gasoline thankyouverymuch".
48
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:12am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:12am
B.A.C.A.H. says
Why would you get a cut of the taxes? As far as loans, if you can't afford your lifestyle, you should make changes before you start investing. There are a number of people who have operated outside the financial slave system for some time now, and that is only going to grow. Those people won't be contributing anything, but even for those who do, how does any of that benefit you?
And the rest of us will keep collecting the interest you pay in taxes and loans, and the dividends you pay when buying services and stuff, including even the mining companies, the gun companies and whatnot.
Why would you get a cut of the taxes? As far as loans, if you can't afford your lifestyle, you should make changes before you start investing. There are a number of people who have operated outside the financial slave system for some time now, and that is only going to grow. Those people won't be contributing anything, but even for those who do, how does any of that benefit you?
49
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:16am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:16am
ad says
Not years, months, and way under 50.
ad says
Three to six months is how long you'd need to be supplied for at minimum. Yes, it could resemble those movies in some ways, but it won't last for years.
So you see that much of an economic collapse within the next 50 years to result in this ?
Not years, months, and way under 50.
ad says
If there is that much of a Mad Max style collapse, then economy will be based on bartering to the lowest level of survivability which is potable water, food, shelter, housing, and medical care.
Three to six months is how long you'd need to be supplied for at minimum. Yes, it could resemble those movies in some ways, but it won't last for years.
50
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:28am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:28am
mell says
So we're living this now, are your wages keeping up with inflation? I've gotten some pretty sizeable raises that have kept me ahead of the curve, but not the case this year. As to supply problems, these are well documented for the past several years. Guys I talk to from a variety of industries all have trouble getting parts now. I'm a little mystified you don't think there's supply chain issues.
mell says
You're right, but you didn't address the no income scenario I posited, or the disparity in inflation vs wages.
Your wages and assets go up, as long as there isn't a supply problem of goods and services how can there be a collapse?
So we're living this now, are your wages keeping up with inflation? I've gotten some pretty sizeable raises that have kept me ahead of the curve, but not the case this year. As to supply problems, these are well documented for the past several years. Guys I talk to from a variety of industries all have trouble getting parts now. I'm a little mystified you don't think there's supply chain issues.
mell says
Your mortgage is denominated in the same fiat so it will adjust.
You're right, but you didn't address the no income scenario I posited, or the disparity in inflation vs wages.
51
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:31am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 9:31am
RWSGFY says
For sure. But if you aren't buying silver and gold, how likely are you to have the food, clothes, off grid energy and gasoline? Maybe you have everything else, but again, if you want to come out ahead after an economic collapse/reset, you better have some real money too.
I don't see how are you going to persuade somebody who has something real like food, energy or clothes you need that these old worn coins are worth more than what is written on them. "Son, it says 25 cents right there on the coin you gave me so why should I believe you that it's really $10? I'll just keep my jerry can of gasoline thankyouverymuch".
For sure. But if you aren't buying silver and gold, how likely are you to have the food, clothes, off grid energy and gasoline? Maybe you have everything else, but again, if you want to come out ahead after an economic collapse/reset, you better have some real money too.
52
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 21, 12:22pm
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 21, 12:22pm
NuttBoxer says
You pay federal taxes, we collect interest on the treasury debt.
NuttBoxer says
That's right. Folks borrow, we collect interest on the deposits (brokered CD's).
NuttBoxer says
Yeah you're right about that. Can't win them all. But for those of them who hoard silver, we collect the dividends of the mining companies.
Why would you get a cut of the taxes?
You pay federal taxes, we collect interest on the treasury debt.
NuttBoxer says
As far as loans, if you can't afford your lifestyle, you should make changes before you start investing.
That's right. Folks borrow, we collect interest on the deposits (brokered CD's).
NuttBoxer says
There are a number of people who have operated outside the financial slave system
Yeah you're right about that. Can't win them all. But for those of them who hoard silver, we collect the dividends of the mining companies.
53
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 12:39pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 12:39pm
B.A.C.A.H. says
Ahh, you're holding bonds. Those aren't paid by taxes my friend, taxes haven't been enough to cover even the interest on the national debt for at least 10 years. I hope your following the bond market, and have an exit strategy.
Have you ever adjusted for inflation?
Your dream of other people paying you ended decades ago man. We are leveraged so far out the taxes only serve to give the appearance of credibility to the system. At least through taxes and paper markets. The only payment that's still real in this system is our time, and what we produce. And even on that end most of us work a fake industry that doesn't produce anything other than services, that no one will really need in the future that's coming. Yes, I'm talking SW.
I don't know about you, but what I earn I want to come from honest means, not by stealing poorer people's time. Just waiting to collect my stock payout and my bonus, then I'm going to a company with some morals.
You pay federal taxes, we collect interest on the treasury debt.
Ahh, you're holding bonds. Those aren't paid by taxes my friend, taxes haven't been enough to cover even the interest on the national debt for at least 10 years. I hope your following the bond market, and have an exit strategy.
Have you ever adjusted for inflation?
Your dream of other people paying you ended decades ago man. We are leveraged so far out the taxes only serve to give the appearance of credibility to the system. At least through taxes and paper markets. The only payment that's still real in this system is our time, and what we produce. And even on that end most of us work a fake industry that doesn't produce anything other than services, that no one will really need in the future that's coming. Yes, I'm talking SW.
I don't know about you, but what I earn I want to come from honest means, not by stealing poorer people's time. Just waiting to collect my stock payout and my bonus, then I'm going to a company with some morals.
54
AD
2022 Oct 21, 1:16pm
AD
2022 Oct 21, 1:16pm
NuttBoxer says
What is "SW" ?
Since around 2008 the economic system has been on life support based on ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and QE (quantitative easing). The Fed waited until the last year of Obama's admin to turn this around and raise rates. It should have done that right after he got re elected and in small increments like 0.25% every other quarter.
Its made it easy for borrowing especially for the federal government.
I agree as we need to understand as a society as far as what is value-added services and goods. As we tighten our belts in the downward segment of the economic cycle, a lot of wasteful economic activities will cease to exist.
We'll see how the federal debt to GDP ratio fares over the next 2 to 4 years. Maybe they can inflate themselves out of this and reduce it back to 100% which was where it was from 2012 to 2020.
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Yes, I'm talking SW.
What is "SW" ?
Since around 2008 the economic system has been on life support based on ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and QE (quantitative easing). The Fed waited until the last year of Obama's admin to turn this around and raise rates. It should have done that right after he got re elected and in small increments like 0.25% every other quarter.
Its made it easy for borrowing especially for the federal government.
I agree as we need to understand as a society as far as what is value-added services and goods. As we tighten our belts in the downward segment of the economic cycle, a lot of wasteful economic activities will cease to exist.
We'll see how the federal debt to GDP ratio fares over the next 2 to 4 years. Maybe they can inflate themselves out of this and reduce it back to 100% which was where it was from 2012 to 2020.
.
55
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 2:46pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 2:46pm
Sorry, Software. Wishing more and more I would have gone into farming...
56
AD
2022 Oct 21, 3:08pm
AD
2022 Oct 21, 3:08pm
NuttBoxer says
Are you saying that software (SW) is not going to be needed in the future because society is going to collapse that much ?
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Sorry, Software. Wishing more and more I would have gone into farming...
Are you saying that software (SW) is not going to be needed in the future because society is going to collapse that much ?
.
57
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 21, 4:45pm
B.A.C.A.H.
2022 Oct 21, 4:45pm
NuttBoxer says
I said treasury debt, not "bonds". "Notes" are treasury debt with maturities under 2 years. The 3-month treasury yield on new issues is just a few basis points under 4% (annualized), not too shabby for cash needed for 6 -12 months. (No state income tax!).
"Bonds", a word that you mistakenly attributed to me, have maturities >= 10 years. Homie don't hold those, not directly anyways. Retail banks that I have deposits in may have them as capital reserves, but that's their problem, not mine.
The main problem I have with long term treasury debt is not inflation, which I agree with you is a real problem, but default. As a candidate in 2016, Trump already went on record that haircuts could be used to lessen the federal debt burden. So what was formerly unspeakable is not unspeakable any more. Doesn't matter anyway, - as you insinuated, bondholders will lose capital on inflation.
NuttBoxer says
Yes I do that from time to time. That's what the stocks are for.
I reckon due to inflation the purchasing power of my portfolio, even though heavily in stocks, will shrink over time. Come'on, homie, - we all knew this would happen. If we didn't discount the future value of our portfolio and pension income to inflation we'd be like ostriches (heads in sand). I have accepted it and moved on. No use getting torqued up about an unstoppable force.
NuttBoxer says
Never had that dream. It's just the irony I see in preppers and hordes of silver hoarders hoarding silver (an industrial metal) assuming that they can trade it for food, fuel, rent, and medical procedures. I did those thought experiments decades ago and decided it won't work. And this was after spending about a decade reading about the Weimar Inflation.
Wish you well. Maybe you will prove me wrong, Bully For You if you do.
Ahh, you're holding bonds
I said treasury debt, not "bonds". "Notes" are treasury debt with maturities under 2 years. The 3-month treasury yield on new issues is just a few basis points under 4% (annualized), not too shabby for cash needed for 6 -12 months. (No state income tax!).
"Bonds", a word that you mistakenly attributed to me, have maturities >= 10 years. Homie don't hold those, not directly anyways. Retail banks that I have deposits in may have them as capital reserves, but that's their problem, not mine.
The main problem I have with long term treasury debt is not inflation, which I agree with you is a real problem, but default. As a candidate in 2016, Trump already went on record that haircuts could be used to lessen the federal debt burden. So what was formerly unspeakable is not unspeakable any more. Doesn't matter anyway, - as you insinuated, bondholders will lose capital on inflation.
NuttBoxer says
Have you ever adjusted for inflation?
Yes I do that from time to time. That's what the stocks are for.
I reckon due to inflation the purchasing power of my portfolio, even though heavily in stocks, will shrink over time. Come'on, homie, - we all knew this would happen. If we didn't discount the future value of our portfolio and pension income to inflation we'd be like ostriches (heads in sand). I have accepted it and moved on. No use getting torqued up about an unstoppable force.
NuttBoxer says
Your dream of other people paying you ended decades ago
Never had that dream. It's just the irony I see in preppers and hordes of silver hoarders hoarding silver (an industrial metal) assuming that they can trade it for food, fuel, rent, and medical procedures. I did those thought experiments decades ago and decided it won't work. And this was after spending about a decade reading about the Weimar Inflation.
Wish you well. Maybe you will prove me wrong, Bully For You if you do.
58
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 5:35pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 5:35pm
ad says
Decentralization is the future. In a decentralized world, how much of the current SW is still useful? I think it scales way back, like a lot of sectors that aren't absolutely necessary for everyday life. The future needs real products, small-town services, local, sustainable ways of living.
Are you saying that software (SW) is not going to be needed in the future because society is going to collapse that much ?
Decentralization is the future. In a decentralized world, how much of the current SW is still useful? I think it scales way back, like a lot of sectors that aren't absolutely necessary for everyday life. The future needs real products, small-town services, local, sustainable ways of living.
59
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 5:50pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Oct 21, 5:50pm
B.A.C.A.H. says
Only applies to assets that do not retain value outside the current Federal Reserve system. Forgetting the paper markets for metals, which are not different than any other paper market, physical coin has not had the same swings and losses. You can still buy a suit in Rome for the same price you could buy a nice set of clothes under Constantine. You won't get crazy upswings in value, just protection against inflation.
B.A.C.A.H. says
Personally, I don't know anyone doing this. Everyone I know, including myself has rations, water, guns, ammo, and a place to go with others for protection. If all I had was coin, what's to stop someone from robbing me, forget about bartering, it won't get that far.
My wish is all of you make similar plans, because I don't want to see anyone in government lines for food with a side of booster. Plan to be able to survive without government, or plan to be enslaved.
No use getting torqued up about an unstoppable force.
Only applies to assets that do not retain value outside the current Federal Reserve system. Forgetting the paper markets for metals, which are not different than any other paper market, physical coin has not had the same swings and losses. You can still buy a suit in Rome for the same price you could buy a nice set of clothes under Constantine. You won't get crazy upswings in value, just protection against inflation.
B.A.C.A.H. says
It's just the irony I see in preppers and horders of silver hoarders hoarding silver (an industrial metal) assuming that they can trade it for food, fuel, rent, and medical procedures.
Personally, I don't know anyone doing this. Everyone I know, including myself has rations, water, guns, ammo, and a place to go with others for protection. If all I had was coin, what's to stop someone from robbing me, forget about bartering, it won't get that far.
My wish is all of you make similar plans, because I don't want to see anyone in government lines for food with a side of booster. Plan to be able to survive without government, or plan to be enslaved.
60
AD
2022 Oct 21, 9:09pm
AD
2022 Oct 21, 9:09pm
I think it will be a depressed standard of living for 90% of the population. But I don't think it will get that bad. The poorer likely won't see much of a dramatic change. The middle class will see the greatest change, and will undergo a drop of 20% in quality of life.
62
AD
2022 Nov 22, 2:09pm
AD
2022 Nov 22, 2:09pm
NuttBoxer says
Cloward Piven is a winning strategy. Birdbrain Biden plans even more handouts.
.
That's already happened.
Cloward Piven is a winning strategy. Birdbrain Biden plans even more handouts.
.
63
Hircus
2022 Nov 22, 3:19pm
Hircus
2022 Nov 22, 3:19pm
Nuttboxer, what types of denominations for metals do you hold? I've seen those combi bars where you can snap of the scored bars, which look real convenient, but they carry such a price premium. I was thinking of buying a variety of coins so I have some immediate variety, but plan to stock mostly larger bars that I will just cut up if needed.
I'm not yet at the point where I'm buying metals for my preps. I'm still working on higher priorities (last month I got 1000lb of grains from azurestandard, some solar gear, various other stuff). I think precious metals are of limited usefulness in shtf, but are certainly still one of the more useful things one could stock. While I think there will be brief periods of time where the vast majority of people are only seeking to acquire food/water like stuff, and thus wont care much about people offering to trade them metals, that period will pass. And people who have surplus of some resource, or those who are generally secure in their resources, will likely always be willing to take metals as payment to some degree imo.
I'm not yet at the point where I'm buying metals for my preps. I'm still working on higher priorities (last month I got 1000lb of grains from azurestandard, some solar gear, various other stuff). I think precious metals are of limited usefulness in shtf, but are certainly still one of the more useful things one could stock. While I think there will be brief periods of time where the vast majority of people are only seeking to acquire food/water like stuff, and thus wont care much about people offering to trade them metals, that period will pass. And people who have surplus of some resource, or those who are generally secure in their resources, will likely always be willing to take metals as payment to some degree imo.
64
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 22, 3:23pm
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 22, 3:23pm
Buy silver chains and simple rings.
Don't buy rounds. The gangs from the underground market that act as security will follow the guy with a roll of Walking Liberties home to kill him, rape his family, and steal all his preps.
Better to hand off the single silver ring or chain and say "I need that amox/Let me pass, take this chain my Aunt brought me as a kid." Rather than dig in your pockets and count out rounds: "Git 'em, he's rich!" and fight off 6 guys.
Don't buy rounds. The gangs from the underground market that act as security will follow the guy with a roll of Walking Liberties home to kill him, rape his family, and steal all his preps.
Better to hand off the single silver ring or chain and say "I need that amox/Let me pass, take this chain my Aunt brought me as a kid." Rather than dig in your pockets and count out rounds: "Git 'em, he's rich!" and fight off 6 guys.
65
Onvacation
2022 Nov 22, 3:48pm
Onvacation
2022 Nov 22, 3:48pm
AmericanKulak says
We haven't had a good thread on the virtues of yams, clear fields of fire, and belt-fed lately.
Cannibal Anarchy is closer than ever.
Buy silver chains and simple rings.
We haven't had a good thread on the virtues of yams, clear fields of fire, and belt-fed lately.
Cannibal Anarchy is closer than ever.
66
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 12:50pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 12:50pm
Hircus says
Whatever gives me the most ounces. Junk has gotten ridiculous on premiums due to scarcity. Rounds never seem to attract as many buyers, so they're usually a good way to go. And it depends on the ratio. Until it drops back to around 30, will be staying with silver.
Nuttboxer, what types of denominations for metals do you hold?
Whatever gives me the most ounces. Junk has gotten ridiculous on premiums due to scarcity. Rounds never seem to attract as many buyers, so they're usually a good way to go. And it depends on the ratio. Until it drops back to around 30, will be staying with silver.
67
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 12:52pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 12:52pm
AmericanKulak says
I assume this is not serious. If you haven't prepared your defense, you are buying for someone else.
Buy silver chains and simple rings.
Don't buy rounds. The gangs from the underground market that act as security will follow the guy with a roll of Walking Liberties home to kill him, rape his family, and steal all his preps.
Better to hand off the single silver ring or chain and say "I need that amox/Let me pass, take this chain my Aunt brought me as a kid." Rather than dig in your pockets and count out rounds: "Git 'em, he's rich!" and fight off 6 guys.
I assume this is not serious. If you haven't prepared your defense, you are buying for someone else.
68
RWSGFY
2022 Nov 23, 1:07pm
RWSGFY
2022 Nov 23, 1:07pm
NuttBoxer says
I don't see the correlation. It's perfectly normal to have shelter, food and means to defend yourself but no precious metals (not counting the wedding ring). It is burdersome to check precious metals for purity now, it will be exponentionally harder to do so in the preppers dream world of "who was nothing will become everything".
I'd also argue that in such a dystopian world the value of precious metals go DOWN relatively to essential goods, not up. Proven by Russian revolution and civil war of 1917-1921, Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-1933, various occupied territories in WWII, etc. when someting that used to be worth a small fortune before SHTF was being exchanged literally for a loaf of bread. So the time to AMASS precious metals is AFTER SHTF, not in preparation for it.
RWSGFY says
I don't see how are you going to persuade somebody who has something real like food, energy or clothes you need that these old worn coins are worth more than what is written on them. "Son, it says 25 cents right there on the coin you gave me so why should I believe you that it's really $10? I'll just keep my jerry can of gasoline thankyouverymuch".
For sure. But if you aren't buying silver and gold, how likely are you to have the food, clothes, off grid energy and gasoline?
I don't see the correlation. It's perfectly normal to have shelter, food and means to defend yourself but no precious metals (not counting the wedding ring). It is burdersome to check precious metals for purity now, it will be exponentionally harder to do so in the preppers dream world of "who was nothing will become everything".
I'd also argue that in such a dystopian world the value of precious metals go DOWN relatively to essential goods, not up. Proven by Russian revolution and civil war of 1917-1921, Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-1933, various occupied territories in WWII, etc. when someting that used to be worth a small fortune before SHTF was being exchanged literally for a loaf of bread. So the time to AMASS precious metals is AFTER SHTF, not in preparation for it.
69
AD
2022 Nov 23, 2:15pm
AD
2022 Nov 23, 2:15pm
RWSGFY says
That is what I figured in a Mad Max Road Warrior type world, or something like out of the movie The Road. What is of value that is tangible are based on basic survival like canned food, drinkable water, water treatment chemicals, egg laying chickens, first aid kit, bullets and guns,etc.
Intangible value are skill sets like being able to fix things in the homestead, micro farming skills, medical skills, etc.
..
a dystopian world the value of precious metals go DOWN relatively to essential goods,
That is what I figured in a Mad Max Road Warrior type world, or something like out of the movie The Road. What is of value that is tangible are based on basic survival like canned food, drinkable water, water treatment chemicals, egg laying chickens, first aid kit, bullets and guns,etc.
Intangible value are skill sets like being able to fix things in the homestead, micro farming skills, medical skills, etc.
..
70
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 23, 2:24pm
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 23, 2:24pm
NuttBoxer says
Read Selco, the guy who survived a city in the Yugoslav war with massive shortages, blockades, and gangs running the show.
https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Secrets-SHTF-Survival-Violence/dp/1792159226
Seeds, canned food, cleaning supplies (!!!), water containers.
I assume this is not serious. If you haven't prepared your defense, you are buying for someone else.
Read Selco, the guy who survived a city in the Yugoslav war with massive shortages, blockades, and gangs running the show.
https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Secrets-SHTF-Survival-Violence/dp/1792159226
Seeds, canned food, cleaning supplies (!!!), water containers.
71
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 10:10pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 10:10pm
RWSGFY says
I don't know many people capable of being self-sufficient, or in possession of a place they can easily defend. The ones I do know aren't stopping there.
RWSGFY says
.
This is literally half the reason they serve as the only real currency, precise measurement. The other half is inability to create. And again, the reason you hold is for rebuilding the world, not surviving economic collapse. Although there are certainly scenarios that make sense when shit is going down, quickly obtaining transportation, bribing your way through checkpoints. Before chaos really ensues.
RWSGFY says
So you've got the defensible shelter, the ammo, the guns, the rations, the water, the clothes. Now what? Just keep amassing paper you know will become worthless any day? Why is it so hard for you to conceive some of us are already planning past survival?
RWSGFY says
With what? My paper currency won't be worth shit, so I'm not fucking holding that. And I've already prepped for the rest. Why are you against people wanting to do better than just survive?
I don't see the correlation. It's perfectly normal to have shelter, food and means to defend yourself but no precious metals (not counting the wedding ring).
I don't know many people capable of being self-sufficient, or in possession of a place they can easily defend. The ones I do know aren't stopping there.
RWSGFY says
It is burdersome to check precious metals for purity now, it will be exponentionally harder to do so in the preppers dream world of "who was nothing will become everything".
.
This is literally half the reason they serve as the only real currency, precise measurement. The other half is inability to create. And again, the reason you hold is for rebuilding the world, not surviving economic collapse. Although there are certainly scenarios that make sense when shit is going down, quickly obtaining transportation, bribing your way through checkpoints. Before chaos really ensues.
RWSGFY says
when someting that used to be worth a small fortune before SHTF was being exchanged literally for a loaf of bread.
So you've got the defensible shelter, the ammo, the guns, the rations, the water, the clothes. Now what? Just keep amassing paper you know will become worthless any day? Why is it so hard for you to conceive some of us are already planning past survival?
RWSGFY says
So the time to AMASS precious metals is AFTER SHTF, not in preparation for it.
With what? My paper currency won't be worth shit, so I'm not fucking holding that. And I've already prepped for the rest. Why are you against people wanting to do better than just survive?
72
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 10:15pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Nov 23, 10:15pm
AmericanKulak says
Selco will look like a holiday compared to what's coming. This isn't one city, or even one country, it's going to be every country, city, town, neighborhood, and home that is incapable of being completely self-reliant for at least 3-6 months.
If you're still on step 1, survival prep, you better fucking put it into high gear. At this point you should be almost done, and well into step 2, planning for the rebuild.
Read Selco
Selco will look like a holiday compared to what's coming. This isn't one city, or even one country, it's going to be every country, city, town, neighborhood, and home that is incapable of being completely self-reliant for at least 3-6 months.
If you're still on step 1, survival prep, you better fucking put it into high gear. At this point you should be almost done, and well into step 2, planning for the rebuild.
73
AD
2023 Nov 4, 1:07pm
AD
2023 Nov 4, 1:07pm
.
good website based on Rich Wicks comments: https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-gold-price-and-u-s-debt-1970-2023/
speaking of precious metals,
1) SPDR Gold Trust is still at 2011 levels :-/
2) and worse as far as possible market manipulation, the iShares Silver Trust is about 40% of 2011 levels :-(
.
good website based on Rich Wicks comments: https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-gold-price-and-u-s-debt-1970-2023/
speaking of precious metals,
1) SPDR Gold Trust is still at 2011 levels :-/
2) and worse as far as possible market manipulation, the iShares Silver Trust is about 40% of 2011 levels :-(
.
74
RWSGFY
2023 Nov 4, 2:06pm
RWSGFY
2023 Nov 4, 2:06pm
The idea of surviving 6 months sitting on a bag of beans and a box of gold bricks with a shotgun in a suburban house amid total societal collapse is a fun excercuse in mental masturbation, but it's unrealistic unless you are a member of a group able to take and control ground the size if small town or at least a subdivision. One guy with an AR-15 and his wife with a shotgun will hold their shack with beans and gold bricks piled inside against a determined squad-sized band of attackers for maybe 2-3 hours. Maybe. There will be no rebuilding with gold bricks after that. So if you are not a part of a group, you are not really as prepared as you think you are.
75
AD
2023 Nov 4, 3:06pm
AD
2023 Nov 4, 3:06pm
RWSGFY says
I agree as I would rather be in a rural area with neighbors I trust and who would form an armed posse to protect the neighborhood.
And I would want multiple water sources within that neighborhood as well as food sources like chickens and 5 years worth of chicken feed (corn, grain, etc.).
If you aquafarm Tilapia, the fish can survive just on algae. And the Tilpia waste can be used as fertilizer for hydroponic vegetables and fruits.
The neighborhood would have to create its own self-sustained society. I agree as shiny things like precious metals will have no value in such societal long term chaotic conditions.
It would take at least 10 years for the USA to stabilize and turn itself around if the modernized world was to reach that level of chaos, and beyond Selco in the old Yugoslavia during the 1990s.
.
The idea of surviving 6 months sitting on a bag of beans and a box of gold bricks with a shotgun in a suburban house amid total societal collapse is a fun excercuse in mental masturbation,
I agree as I would rather be in a rural area with neighbors I trust and who would form an armed posse to protect the neighborhood.
And I would want multiple water sources within that neighborhood as well as food sources like chickens and 5 years worth of chicken feed (corn, grain, etc.).
If you aquafarm Tilapia, the fish can survive just on algae. And the Tilpia waste can be used as fertilizer for hydroponic vegetables and fruits.
The neighborhood would have to create its own self-sustained society. I agree as shiny things like precious metals will have no value in such societal long term chaotic conditions.
It would take at least 10 years for the USA to stabilize and turn itself around if the modernized world was to reach that level of chaos, and beyond Selco in the old Yugoslavia during the 1990s.
.
76
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2023 Nov 4, 4:56pm
Maga_Chaos_Monkey
2023 Nov 4, 4:56pm
I watched an interview of a guy stuck in a house in a large city during the Bosnia Hertz war for a year. He claimed that he only survived because he had 15 armed people in his house, would go out in small teams at night and barter for shit.
His best barter items were refillable butane lighters and he had a large tank of gas. He'd tell them if they needed a refill to meet him somewhere and he'd return the next day with a refill.
Guns and bullets being the other thing that was tradable for life saving items.
Every time they went out at night they'd be careful to take a route that they hadn't taken before as much as possible.
His best barter items were refillable butane lighters and he had a large tank of gas. He'd tell them if they needed a refill to meet him somewhere and he'd return the next day with a refill.
Guns and bullets being the other thing that was tradable for life saving items.
Every time they went out at night they'd be careful to take a route that they hadn't taken before as much as possible.
77
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Nov 4, 11:13pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Nov 4, 11:13pm
I'm not sure why people think gold and silver are only used during cannibal anarchy. They've served a money since the beginning of time. When countries thrived it was always due to real money(gold, silver) based economy. I can tell you who will be looking to acquire more gold and silver during a collapse, people who are prepared, will easily survive the collapse, and are already thinking about what happens when we rebuild. That's when I plan to use mine. After the worst of it, when everything will be dirt cheap, and most people won't have any means of purchase.
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