patrick.net

BayArea says

I ask because I’ve thrown around the idea of buying an electric vehicle but just not totally sold for the following reasons:

- large buy in price commit
- road-trip charging anxiety
- battery losing efficiency over time (and with weather)

I currently drive a 21yr old Lexus sedan - 2001 GS430
This was a $55k luxury car when new and I picked it up for $12,500 back in 2011 with 90k miles in a condition that looked like it had just rolled off the showroom floor. It has 165k miles today and is worth about $6-7k if I had to guess based on condition/mileage. I can probably drive the car another 5yrs and I estimate it will be worth the same amount given that it’s fully depreciated.

The car still looks sharp, gets about 20mpg, and still keeps me happy.

My friends think I’m batshit insane to make as much money as I do and drive a car this old but I have strong convictions about not buying shiny depreciating assets to impress other people. Additionally I ...

That's a great ride! Hold onto it. It looks great for it's age. That's a great example of Lexus's prime years before they started putting whiz bang in everything.

I drive a 2022 Prius Prime - I paid under sticker for it. Wife has a 2019 Highlander. No plans on either of us selling/trading for the next 10-15 years.

We previously drove a 2008 CRV and a 2009 Civic.

I did some math yesterday and I've saved somewhere around $10,000 by keeping my 2012 Malibu running. And that's based on if I had replaced it with another cheap Chevy.

My mechanic friend bought a 1996 Toyota corolla for $150 with 200,000 miles on it as his daily driver. He also just bought a Toyota Tumdra with over 300,000 miles on it for $4,000. Why? Because he says Toyota will literally last forever with good maintenance. Toyota includes Lexus btw.

Other than collector cars, cars are a huge waste of $$. I'll probably never purchase another new car.

WineHorror1 says

I did some math yesterday and I've saved somewhere around $10,000 by keeping my 2012 Malibu running. And that's based on if I had replaced it with another cheap Chevy.

My mechanic friend bought a 1996 Toyota corolla for $150 with 200,000 miles on it as his daily driver. He also just bought a Toyota Tumdra with over 300,000 miles on it for $4,000. Why? Because he says Toyota will literally last forever with good maintenance. Toyota includes Lexus btw.

Other than collector cars, cars are a huge waste of $$. I'll probably never purchase another new car.

Camrys literally never break, and many mechanics are looking to buy used ones, the older the better

BayArea says

RWSGFY says

There is no Toyota equivalent for the GS, so not "same car".

And I'm pretty sure the GS's VIN starts with a "J", which makes a diffrence.

It was the Toyota “Aristo” but that model not available in the USA

Anything is available for a price. But that was my point. Toyota and Lexus are the same cars mechanical wise. They just make the Lexus prettier and charge you more. And yes, there are one off cars like the Supra. But the Lexus sports cars still likely use the same chassis as the Supra.

For my daily driver (fake scenario), let's say a 2022 Nissan Armada, it's the same car as an Infinity QX80 of the same year. The only difference is looks, more buttons to push and shiny. Toyota is the same. Hell even a Tundra and Sequoia are essentially the same car. One has a truck bed the other has seats instead.

You buy premium models like Infinity or Lexus to look like you shit money. Not knocking anyone that chooses that route, but that's literally the only difference between Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity. They branded to up charge $10-20k on the same car that only cost the manufacturer $1-2k more in production and an extra $200 in marketing for the car sold. This is 1,000% fact. Straight from the horses mouth of a higher up at Toyota.

Hell car manufacturers are openly touting the fake news narrative. If you think you're getting a better car with Lexus vs a Toyota, they got you with marketing. You bought the lie. And buy what you want. I get there's ego in car buying, but who cares really? If anything a "luxury" car makes me think you're going to screw me in the business world. I have hella respect for the person that rolls up in a $15k used car and knows what the fuck he's talking about. Instead of the frat bro tool that pulls up in a Lexus wearing a suit to walk through a home that needs total rehab. Smart people don't care what you drive is all I'll say. Buy cars that are reliable and fit your needs.

I would keep fixing up the car if you like driving it.
New cars are more efficient but more complex with smaller engines usually.

My car is a Volvo S60 T5, 5 cylinders turbo, 250 hp. It’s fun to drive and goes like a bat out of hell if put in Sport mode. I absolutely love it. It’s made in Belgium with a Swedish engine.

Used ones are pretty inexpensive, $11,000 for a clean 2014 or about.

BUT, the newer Volvos have 4 cylinder engine and aren’t made in Europe and are expensive.

My other cars have generally been Toyota pickups, which are great. The 1998 Toyota is still running, I sold it to the guy who worked for me.

The problem with the Volvo is fixing it is expensive. I’m amazed that replacing the alternator is $1700!

The best car I ever bought was a 1964 Volvo that I paid $200 for in 1974.
How I miss the good old days.

I think maybe BMW still sells cars with normal engines, they are generally well made.

I like the Chevy Bolt in theory, but I never drove one.

Ceffer says

The lady who does my hair (drives big Lexus sedan) forgot I had Subaru and was laughing and joking about how they were lesbian cars. I told her I must be a lesbian, then. She was embarrassed, but I told her it was OK, I don't givee shits about image.

That's why they call them "Lesbarus."

Wife has an 08 Forester, I've got the 17 Outback 6 cyl for my music and camping gear. The major problem with all newer cars (with the exception of Toyota and Honda) are the CVT transmissions. SOA has had to up the powertrain warranty to 10 years because of all the problems. I think they just plan on replacing them as they fail under warranty rather than try to maintain or remanufacture them. I wish I could have gotten a stick, but I wanted the 6 cyl and not the 2.5.

BayArea says

I can probably drive the car another 5yrs and I estimate it will be worth the same amount given that it’s fully depreciated.

It’s not fully depreciated until it is rusty.

I would keep driving it, or upgrade to a used truck. https://youtu.be/9I51JXpcLwk

Lexus GS 430 is a great car. If you’re ok with it, I’d keep it. $200/month on gas is not bad at all. You won’t recover the cost if you buy an EV. It’s really different strokes for different folks.

I enjoy driving newer cars. I drive a 2017 Tesla Model S. Wife drives a 2017 Acura MDX.

Once she picks up her 2022 Model X in a couple of months, she’ll pass the MDX to my little sister. Once I pick up my Cybertruck next year, I’ll pass my Model S to her brother. Each side of the sibling gets a free car so no complaints. I don’t see us ever going back to an ICE car at this moment.

I track the cost of ownership and operation for my vehicles.

It is not difficult to maintain if you set it up when you get the car and are disciplined about updating it.

The figures of merit and inputs:

Variable costs:

Fuel cost per mile. Track the gas mileage "MPG" by only filling up and dividing gallons into miles driven. Since I purchase fuel less than once per week this is not a lot of work. The logsheet is an old-fashioned check book register in which I record the purchases. Fuel cost per mile is (MPG) x (recent price paid per gallon). For my 2006 2WD Tacoma this is presently $0.27 per mile.

Maintenance cost per mile. Keep a log of maintenance and repair performed and cost. Some performed at garages, some at dealers, some by me. Keep a running total spent, divide the total miles driven into the total money spent. You can get fancy and get the slope for recent expenditures to account for inflation and higher cost as the vehicle ages. I used to do that but got lazy so nowadays just track the totals. It's a reasonable enough estimate for benchmarking. At present the 2006 Tacoma is $0.20 per mile.

So the total variable cost is $0.47 per mile.

Next are the fixed costs (per month or whatever).
Insurance $50.62 per month
Registration $15.50 per month
Depreciation $66.00 per month

For depreciation, a couple or so times a year I look up the trade-in values of my vehicles on KBB. Trade-in because I am too lazy and paranoid to make a private sale. I used the straight-line depreciation from the purchase date to present. That's probably a simple-minded over simplified method but I am too lazy to get fancy and it's good enough for me for benchmarking.

So, my 2006 2WD Tacoma is $0.47 per mile plus $122.12 per month.

For comparison the 2018 artsy-fartsy Cool and Hip Prius Prime is $0.25 per mile plus $217 per month.

About new cars, I can't stand all those new vehicles that turn off the engine at stops. I've dealt with dead batteries and jumper cables from time to time. I've had shitty batteries that won't hold a charge, - again, a minor inconvenience with the jumper cables till I could replace the battery. But that won't work in those kind of new cars because it won't restart in traffic.

I think this is cheating to meet fuel consumption mandates. Car owners should have an option to override this feature, but with all the fancy new electronics betcha can't do that.

B.A.C.A.H. says

About new cars, I can't stand all those new vehicles that turn off the engine at stops. I've dealt with dead batteries and jumper cables from time to time. I've had shitty batteries that won't hold a charge, - again, a minor inconvenience with the jumper cables till I could replace the battery. But that won't work in those kind of new cars because it won't restart in traffic.

Start/stop is disabled when the battery is low.

But that shit is annoying anyway.

mell says

WineHorror1 says

I did some math yesterday and I've saved somewhere around $10,000 by keeping my 2012 Malibu running. And that's based on if I had replaced it with another cheap Chevy.

My mechanic friend bought a 1996 Toyota corolla for $150 with 200,000 miles on it as his daily driver. He also just bought a Toyota Tumdra with over 300,000 miles on it for $4,000. Why? Because he says Toyota will literally last forever with good maintenance. Toyota includes Lexus btw.

Other than collector cars, cars are a huge waste of $$. I'll probably never purchase another new car.

Camrys literally never break, and many mechanics are looking to buy used ones, the older the better

My next car will probably be a Camry.

B.A.C.A.H. says

but with all the fancy new electronics betcha can't do that.

You can on the Subaru. I like the stop feature. The stereo sounds much better when you are stuck idling without the engine on, and it is really responsive, so I am glad it is there.

The facial recognition feature on the next level up was too spooky and big brother for me, and most people seem to turn that one off, but with all the surveillance, who knows if it is really ever off.

Ceffer says

Subaru. .... The facial recognition feature

Whaaaat? Facial recognition in a car? What for?

Bd6r says

Ceffer says

brand new Subaru Forester LImited

We also drive Subaru Forester, and also have heard jokes about "car driven by angry lesbians'". It is manual so less chance of being stolen by diverse populations who don't know how to drive stickshift.

Nice car, but I liked our 2003 Forester better.

Never had any gaskets go out on us. 2003 Forester was totaled in a crash a couple years ago and had nearly 200K miles on it. Before that, only repairs were battery changes and windshield repair.

Having said that, I am not buying Subaru's any more. Our last Forester feels underpowered relative to 2003 version. I suppose it is because of mpg mandates, or because they are trying to be like every other car manufacturer.

Yes, I had to replace head gasket on Subaru WRX turbo at 60,000 miles. Only major repair item. I guess that is pretty standard, but I haven't heard of it in the non-turbo, and I think a lot of turbos have head gasket issues in general.

However, being a lesbian makes up for all of that.

Bd6r says

Never had any gaskets go out on us. 2003 Forester was totaled in a crash a couple years ago and had nearly 200K miles on it. Before that, only repairs were battery changes and windshield repair.

Having said that, I am not buying Subaru's any more. Our last Forester feels underpowered relative to 2003 version. I suppose it is because of mpg mandates, or because they are trying to be like every other car manufacturer.

Ours had a leaky gasket too, common problem apparently. I like it as an AWD, I do offroad a lot with it, there are no roads where I go. But yeah not sure if I'd get one again. Trucks are much more useful with a crew cab especially, just hate that most aren't 4WD.

Ceffer says

However, being a lesbian makes up for all of that.

Apparently lots of us Subaru owners around here

This is the worst case of lesbian envy I have ever experienced on Patnet.

Ceffer says

However, being a lesbian makes up for all of that.

Yes, I hear that lesbians with an actual penis are in high demand.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

I do offroad a lot with it, there are no roads where I go. But yeah not sure if I'd get one again. Trucks are much more useful with a crew cab especially, just hate that most aren't 4WD.

We drive on roads in W. Texas that are not maintained. WRT to trucks, very few are with manual transmission. I might buy one in few months as I am afraid that they will get rid of manuals totally.

Having to replace a HG at 60k and referring to it as standard is mind boggling

Interesting, I bought a vehicle several years ago with a similar price and mileage to what Bayarea's vehicle had. Is that some sort of sweet spot? First time buying from a dealership (was a trade in with complete service history). That said, there is usually a timing belt change (which can be expensive depending upon the vehicle) in the 80-100k mile range. I finally completed the last two major service items: spark plugs and inverter fluid change, so (in theory) am good for another 100K (?) -- as long as the hybrid battery doesn't go boat anchor on me (16 years old).
Anyone have thoughts on how long a oil drain plug should last? Vehicle was always dealer serviced. At around 100k they informed my wife that drain plug was leaking (she asked about replacement), and was told an oil pan replacement would be needed next time around. This was in the middle of the pandemic and I was a bit suspicious. At any rate, I thought it absurd and bought a Fumoto valve for the oil pan. I hadn't been under a vehicle in a while but drained the oil. It was clear the the drain plug had been cross threaded a bit at one point (perhaps do to negligence from "dealer service professional"). I crossed my fingers, screwed in the Fumoto valve and hoped the oil pan threads would hold. Oil was leaking a bit, but I continued to give it a quarter turn until the dripping stopped. So far it's been holding, and even survived a subsequent dealer oil change.

BayArea says

Having to replace a HG at 60k and referring to it as standard is mind boggling

Yep, my relatively ancient vehicles don't even require fucking spark plugs replaced until 105K miles. Subaru has screwed the pooch on this one. Same goes for Nissan and their fucking CVT disaster.

Drain plug is not a wear item.

It needs to be replaced when there is user error from over-tightening.

Keep in mind that the threads on the plug are softer than the threads in the oil pan. It’s that way by design so that the plug fails before the oil pan fails.

BayArea says

Drain plug is not a wear item.

It needs to be replaced when there is user error over over-tightening.

Keep in mind that the threads on the plug are softer than the threads in the oil pan. It’s that way by design so that the plug fails before the oil pan fails.

There are now such things as aluminum and even plastic oil pans. >8-[~]

If the dealearship is the only one who touched that plug they are responsible for fucking it up, period. Unless, of course, some kind of quickie-lube place was involved at a certain point - these are famous for cross-threading oil plugs every fucking time.

Eric Holder says

Whaaaat? Facial recognition in a car? What for?

Supposedly a convenience feature. Some Euro cars also have facial recognition. You can make the car only recognize you to start, or your authorized family members (anti-theft?). The powered cars will also adjust the seats for you when it recognizes you and adjust for different family members. It will speed limit the sibs and rugrats, too, if they take your car and track them for you. It bleeps you when you take your eyes off the road too much, or engage in unsafe diddling around. However, it is capable of bringing the car to a stop if it decides the driver has passed out or become somehow disabled. It does some other things, but I got tired of reading them.

These cars are Starlink connected. Also internet connected when they are close to your home hub. They are kind of like big cell phones on wheels. Mine gives me a monthly check up report. All eerily Big Brother, but the facial recognition feature just smacks of NSA keeping track of you wherever you go and deciding whether to run you off the road, electrocute you, lock the doors and gas you, or drive you over a cliff. They could probably do that, anyway, but it feels icky invasive to have face recognition in your personal vehicle.

Aluminum oil pans typically have a steel threaded insert for where the plug threads into it. Again it has to be that way or there would be far too many costly disasters

I’ve never heard of a plastic oil pan

Eric Holder says

If the dealearship is the only one who touched that plug they are responsible for fucking it up, period.

I probably pissed them off by using one too many $40 oil change coupons (which the dealership sends out after about nine months). Normal oil change is $80.
That said, all service was done by dealer, and 100k miles still seems premature to me for normal wear and tear on an oil pan and plug.
And I didn't even get to the best part. One week after the dealer oil change, the radiator dumped on my driveway. Again, highly suspicious. If the radiator was leaking at the time of oil change, I would have thought they would have caught something during 10 point inspection which they claim to do. At that point I had Stockholm Syndrome. You can live with an oil drip, but obviously a new radiator was needed so back to the dealership it went. I had them change out the water pump when they did the timing belt a couple of years back.,so, hopefully, coolant system is good for another 100k...

BayArea says

I’ve never heard of a plastic oil pan

Lots of vehicles have them now. It cheaper to manufacture, and reduces reliability. That's a win for the manufacturer.

BayArea says

Drain plug is not a wear item.

On some vehicles with plastic oil pans, it's a wear item.

BayArea says

Keep in mind that the threads on the plug are softer than the threads in the oil pan. It’s that way by design so that the plug fails before the oil pan fails.

At the cab company we use slightly oversize drain plugs on drain pans with worn threads. Works fine.

They can’t really create a failure that only shows up in a week… sounds coincidental more so that fraudulent

I am in the market for a new vehicle. My first choice make is Toyota Rav4. But Toyota dealer is quoting a Toyota Rav4 at MSRP plus 3000 in accessories that I don't want.

What do you think about this Mazda CX-5. This is the first offer that I got from a local dealer

gabbar says

My first choice make is Toyota Rav4.

try costco auto program: https://www.costcoauto.com/enterzipcode.aspx?gotourl=%2F

During more normal times (few yrs ago), you could customize car there.

gabbar says

I am in the market for a new vehicle. My first choice make is Toyota Rav4. But Toyota dealer is quoting a Toyota Rav4 at MSRP plus 3000 in accessories that I don't want.

What do you think about this Mazda CX-5. This is the first offer that I got from a local dealer

I think that you should wait at least a year. Two years would be better.

Toyota Rav4 are cool cars.

I will take Toyota over Mazda any time.

Maybe you can find one with 10,000 miles (used).

People get all of the kinks fixed under warranty so you’re getting a good deal and a good car.

clambo says

Maybe you can find one with 10,000 miles (used).

If you can find it, it will be more expensive than a new one.

If you're thinking long term, I wouldn't recommend buying any new cars. Chips have replaced most of the parts, and those chips are made mostly overseas, and in short supply. At minimum a new car will give up your GPS location all the time. At worst it may come with a shut off switch that can be remote activated.

Buy a used Toyota or Honda that uses mostly real parts.

gabbar says

I am in the market for a new vehicle. My first choice make is Toyota Rav4. But Toyota dealer is quoting a Toyota Rav4 at MSRP plus 3000 in accessories that I don't want.

What do you think about this Mazda CX-5. This is the first offer that I got from a local dealer

I'm of the opinion if you like the car just get it. Most people just drive them until they stop working. And most cars have minimal issues before 200k miles. I've never driven a Mazda, so can't come at you with an opinion on it. Rav4 will do you good for sure as I'm in the Toyota family and know a Toyota engineer. Mazda is probably fine if you take care of the vehicle. Same with any make. Obviously some makes/models cost more if there's a major issue. I think you'd be fine with a Mazda I guess is my long winded point.