patrick.net

WineHorror1 says

ohomen171 says

Decades ago, Stalin and Chairman Mao engineered famines that killed millions of people. Putin is the same kind of monster

Lots of people say this. Where's the proof? Seriously.

And another one goes off the deep end...

This former PINO is unhappy with the Special Economic Operation:

Sanctions against Russia could be seen as acts of aggression and a justification for war, according to Dmitiry Medvedev, Russia's deputy security council chairman.

"Under certain circumstances such hostile measures can also qualify as an act of international aggression," says Medvedev, a former Russian president, who called sanctions a "boorish and cynical practice".

The guy is funny in a way only tiny dudes can be (he's something like 5'1"). His last name is derived from Russian for "bear", BTW, which makes it even more comical.

"It's a declaration of war, and if some of our bear parts weren't stuck you-know-where we would show you what's what!"

RWSGFY says

WineHorror1 says

ohomen171 says

Decades ago, Stalin and Chairman Mao engineered famines that killed millions of people. Putin is the same kind of monster

Lots of people say this. Where's the proof? Seriously.

And another one goes off the deep end...

Where is the proof that Putin is the same kind of monster? I think you be full of shit.

Yup where's the proof come on RWSGFY you're falling for the same baseless hyperbole they threw at Trump.
Go back to 2015 through 2017, the Left said Trump would do everything they CLAIM Putin is doing now.

Tenpoundbass says

Yup where's the proof come on RWSGFY you're falling for the same baseless hyperbole they threw at Trump.

Proof of what exactly? Well-known and documented famines caused by Commies in Ukraine in 1932-33 and 1947? Do you want a link to a library or something?

RWSGFY says

Proof of what exactly? Well-known and documented famines caused by Commies in Ukraine in 1932-33 and 1947?

Oh I see what you did there, that's some classic Iwog shit right there. We're talking about proof Putin is an unmitigated Monster, and you throw up Stalin history.
Sorta like the Dems had to toss around "Hitler" to give everyone the Mads about Trump.
I've got three year olds more crafty than that, try again!

Tenpoundbass says

Putin is an unmitigated Monster

Killed 20% of Chechen nation, blew up a few hundred Russians while they slept - does that qualify?
Not on Stalin scale but he tries

Bd6r says

Tenpoundbass says

Putin is an unmitigated Monster

Killed 20% of Chechen nation, blew up a few hundred Russians while they slept - does that qualify?
Not on Stalin scale but he tries

Proof please.

WineHorror1 says

Proof please.

What kind of proof would you accept?

You can read this, it has number of killed in Chechnya in Russian invasions: https://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2005/02/07/30024/genotsid-v-chechenii---strashnee-tsunami.shtml

About killing russians:
https://www.hudson.org/research/12750-vladimir-putin-1999-russian-apartment-house-bombings-was-putin-responsible

This one is in english

Bd6r says

WineHorror1 says

Proof please.

What kind of proof would you accept?

Video

WineHorror1 says

Video

Of Putin agents planting explosives? Or video of killing of each of 200+K chechens?
Searching yandex for "destroyed grozny" also gets close

Bd6r says

Killed 20% of Chechen nation, blew up a few hundred Russians while they slept - does that qualify?

Nice try but there are two domestic factions in Russia that have been doing this and worse for the last 8 years to each other.
Every bombed out building in Ukraine all have one thing in common. The pockmarks on the side of buildings all seem to indicate that the shelling is coming from the Ukraine side, not the Russian side. Futhermore the mall that was bombed earlier in the month was reported that the Russian Seperatist are responsible.

The big huge elephant in the room, that the Dishonest crooked media and the evil vile World Domination establishment alike fail to mention, is the conflict in the Ukraine would happen, even if Russia was on the other side of the world and wasn't sending in any military support. It's a waring faction between political ideologies in the Ukraine. Much like the way the Libs here in America think they can dismiss a large swath of the pollical will in this country by enlisting propaganda and civic destroying Communist subversion in our local municipalities and schools. Then allow the DOJ to go after the disenfranchised and call them the enemy of the State.

Ukraine has an even larger swath of Patriots, that would rather remain Slavic and Russian rather than suck dick with Zelinski and his Commie Fag cabal of the Eurotrash Cock Suckers.

Zelinski is the one killing innocent civilians, because he knows without a doubt you wouldn't disappoint him by taking everything the biased dishonest news reported about it.
He knows IT, the whole fucking Establishment knows it!

I mean once you convince a whole Ignorant class of morons to accept the crooked election of 2020 that reports Biden got 80 million votes, when less than 50 people wont tune into hear him say one Goddamn word about anything! All else in fantasy Island is possible.

Bd6r says

Tenpoundbass says

Putin is an unmitigated Monster

Killed 20% of Chechen nation, blew up a few hundred Russians while they slept - does that qualify?
Not on Stalin scale but he tries

Funny how the United States wrings its hands about Putin supposedly being a monster, but there was no mention of this savagery when it was going on in either US "news" media, or from our supposed "leaders".

This indicates that the US government doesn't care about any of this nonsense, even if it were true. It's exclusively used for propaganda purposes.

Quit appealing to "human rights" - they don't fucking exist. Stop pretending you fucking care, you don't.

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated and turned on, you suddenly know all the attrocities of Russia you're supposedly angry about but have never mentioned or talked about in your entire life. But now you're concerned!!!! Now you CARE, REALLY - you do! Now that it's important to support another fucking waste of billions if not trillions of dollars, you're a humanitarian all of a sudden that has deeply cared about all the awful things Russia has been doing for the last 3 decades, which you've NEVER mentioned once - because you care so fucking much.

WineHorror1 says

You keep putting that hot girl up. Serious, she's hot. I'd hit that.

Fuck it, or "want" to fuck it? I'd only hit that out of desperation. Not gonna lie. She looks like her mom drank too much when pregnant. Not attractive at all, but close enough to suffice in a pinch if horny and at a bar.

richwicks says

Stop pretending you fucking care, you don't.

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated...

C'mon @richwicks that's getting personal.

WookieMan says

WineHorror1 says

You keep putting that hot girl up. Serious, she's hot. I'd hit that.

Fuck it, or "want" to fuck it? I'd only hit that out of desperation. Not gonna lie. She looks like her mom drank too much when pregnant. Not attractive at all, but close enough to suffice in a pinch if horny and at a bar.

I can't explain it but, yeah, I'd fuck her. I got a blowjob from a girl very similar to her at my 10 year HS reunion. She was sweet.

Patrick says

richwicks says

Stop pretending you fucking care, you don't.

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated...

C'mon @richwicks that's getting personal.

Is it?

Look, if there's something I've learned over the last 20 years of war, is there's no morality involved with it. Nobody fucking gives a shit about people being killed. Yemen has over 100,000 CHILDREN dead now. Show me ANYBODY talking about that or asking for it to stop?

I'm tired of "Putler evil!" - MAYBE - quite possibly. Nobody cares if he is, and I wish people would stop pretending. If they fucking cared, they would have said something about in sometime in the last 30 years. If the US government gave a fuck, instead of framing Putin with MH17 (that was shot down by the Ukrainians, you can see the fucking bullet holes on the fuselage) and framing him with the "Skripal poisoning" - they wouldn't have to lie.

But they do fucking lie, constantly.

People complain about clown world. I've been living in it for 20 years.

Remember, "Day h8 us 4 R freedumb". People believe this bullshit, but not really, they just listen and repeat, like a machine. No thinking involved. I'm tired of people's bullshit virtue signalling.

Nobody gave a fuck about Russia until it became massively lucrative for the MIC and the US "news" media started drumming up the war propaganda. People deny the Donbass region has been bombed for the last 8 years. My business partner actually accused me of "repeating Russian propaganda", I retorted with a link to Wikipedia that has been covering it for over 6 years.

The US has been trying to start a war with Russia, a nuclear super power for YEARS. Does anybody remember the lie that "Russia hacked our election" - why did CLINTON pick out Russia? Why did all our intelligence agencies and propaganda outlets go along with this blatantly obvious lie?

If an educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people, we're not a free people. Those assholes enslave me.

richwicks says

that was shot down by the Ukrainians, you can see the fucking bullet holes on the fuselage

OMG, Bozo resumes his act! (grabbing popcorn)

Just as I pointed out in another thread how you recycle same old debunked BS - you don't disappoint.

Just so you know (who am I kidding? not you of course, someone who can possibly make a mistake of taking you seriously) BUK missile isn't meant to hit the target directly. It explodes at a distance, and destroys the target with pre-packaged shrapnel. Which is approximately bullet-sized, but different shape.

It's next to impossible for a casual observer to tell the difference between shrapnel holes and bullet holes on a small sample. On a larger sample, shrapnel holes pattern exhibits inconsistency. IIRC that inconsistency made it possible to tell somewhat soon that the damage was not caused by the gun fire.

Is that all? No, that's not all. The shape of shrapnel actually changed from release to release of BUKs. More detailed analyses, plus recovered shrapnel IIRC, made it possible to identify the shape in question, and pinpoint the version of BUK used in the shooting.

Indeed, team Putin clung to the "shut down by an aircraft" version real hard. So hard that they produced messages from air-traffic controller Carlos (LOL), someone who witnessed the pilot taking off (that didn't last either), and even went to Wikipedia and changed flying characteristics of SU-25. In short - they employed the "let's pile up lots of shit, something will stick, and if not - it will take time to clean it up" strategy.

Hey, by any chance, were you involved with any of that Wikipedia business? Asking for a friend.

mostly reader says

Just so you know (who am I kidding? not you of course, someone who can possibly make a mistake of taking you seriously) BUK missile isn't meant to hit the target directly. It explodes at a distance, and destroys the target with pre-packaged shrapnel. Which is approximately bullet-sized, but different shape.

So?

mostly reader says

It's next to impossible for a casual observer to tell the difference between shrapnel holes and bullet holes on a small sample. On a larger sample, shrapnel holes pattern exhibits inconsistency. IIRC that inconsistency made it possible to tell somewhat soon that the damage was not caused by the gun fire.

It's pretty fucking easy to tell when audio has been modified and grafted together though. The supposed admission from a Russian officer Igor Bezler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=968-IPGKRiA



See the splice? Where it went from stereo to mono? It's pretty obvious, NO effort was made to make it believable. This is how Billy Mitchell was caught. They don't even fucking try anymore. Download it yourself, verify it for yourself.

Gee, why was the evidence faked? Golly, I have no idea. It's almost like they had to create fake evidence to falsely convict somebody, but US intelligence agencies would never do that, and if they did, they'd be professional, and not be caught, right?


original link

Not anymore, they just depend on propagandists, and useful idiots like you to shout down anybody that has more than 2 braincells to rub together.

They were caught faking evidence, 8 years ago. EIGHT years ago. Why are they publishing fake evidence? Why hasn't PooTube taking it down for "false and misleading information"?

mostly reader says

Is that all? No, that's not all. The shape of shrapnel actually changed from release to release of BUKs. More detailed analyses, plus recovered shrapnel IIRC, made it possible to identify the shape in question, and pinpoint the version of BUK used in the shooting.

The first thing they did is that the UNITED STATES seized all the evidence, and now it's not available for inspection.

The US does false flags ALL THE FUCKING time. Mi6 does too. That's what the Skripal's OBVIOUSLY were.

The difference between me and you, is that I have evidence and can readily produce it. You don't. You have insults, a bunch of propaganda shit in your head, and not much more. I keep saying, this is the world's most powerful research and information tool EVER made. It's trivial to check the veracity of our government. Takes only minutes.

A lie has many stories, the truth, has only one.

CGI! False Flag! Altered audio! Admission! ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!!

Why don't you prove your earlier statement that those holes are "fucking bullet holes" (now that I explained to you the shrapnel thing)

Or will you, like your Kremlin gurus, grab a shovel and start piling up "anything but", for the sake of distraction?

I'm seeing the shovel.

mostly reader says

CGI! False Flag! Altered audio! Admission! ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!!

Never claimed CGI, this is a stawman. I expected a logical fallacy from you. As I said, I can readily produce evidence for my conclusions, you NEVER can. Why is that?

mostly reader says

Why don't you prove your earlier statement that those holes are "fucking bullet holes" (now that I explained to you the shrapnel thing)

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence. I don't think you're credible, and I don't believe you do any critical thinking at all. You just regurgitate. It's a waste of my time to try to prove that what you are saying is correct. You don't present supporting evidence, because you have none.

You have no ability to think with nuance. You see everything as black or white, good or bad. You can't imagine that both governments are lying. I expect the Russian government to lie, but I get upset when the US government lies to me to try create the propaganda necessary for fucking World War III.

richwicks says

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence.

To be clear: you are denying my explanation that BUK missile is intended to destroy the target by remote explosion and shrapnel?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence.

To be clear: you are denying my explanation that BUK missile is intended to destroy the target by remote explosion and shrapnel?

No, I'm saying I'm not going to take your word for it, CERTAINLY won't take the US government's word for it, and I know with certainty that the initial evidence the US presented that the Russians did it was falsified, something you've ignored, of course.

My reasoning is, if the United States had solid evidence (and confidence) that the Russians shot down MH17:

1) They wouldn't have produced a faked audio recording of Igor Bezler, but they did one day after the shoot down, on July 18, 2014 - the haste of which they produced this propaganda might explain the incompetence of the product.
2) Malaysia would have been allowed unfettered access to the wreckage of the plane, and they weren't.
3) Russians would have been allowed to investigate the wreckage of the plane, perhaps under surveillance, but that's fine, but they weren't.
4) Ukranians would have been allowed to investigate the wrekage of the plane, but they weren't.
5) Andriy Lysenko (Ukrainian security official) wouldn't have announced 2 weeks later that the black box indicated the plane had been hit by a missile, since the Ukrainians couldn't have had knowledge of this.
6) The black box would have been released IMMEDIATELY to prevent tampering, it wasn't.

They sure go to a lot of fuckery when all they have to do is tell the truth, don't they? Well, you have to go through a lot of fuckery, when you are lying.

The US doesn't even care if Russia shot down MH17 - they were going to claim that regardless. They don't give a shit about the victims, they don't care about the lives lost. All the propaganda works in the favor of the United States as well, so they had motive, as well.

Who benefits by shooting down MH17? Not Russia.

Russia gets blamed for everything, even that Neocon cunt losing the election to a carnival barker. They are being blamed now for inflation. Doesn't matter what they do, the US federal government has no integrity or honesty. They have no shame or pride and they just think people are fucking idiots, and largely, they are right. They lie STRAIGHT to our faces, and YOU say "can I have some more sir? Yes sir, I see 3, 4 or 5 fingers sir, whatever you tell me to see sir. No sir, I will deny my reasoning ability and senses, if you ask me to sir." It's pathetic to me, but whatever, it's YOUR integrity you have to live with, or lack of it.

mostly reader says

OMG, Bozo resumes his act!

@"mostly reader" that's a personal comment. Please don't do that.

richwicks says

No, I'm saying I'm not going to take your word for it, CERTAINLY won't take the US government's word for it, and I know with certainty that the initial evidence the US presented that the Russians did it was falsified, something you've ignored, of course.
...
...
...

Aaaand, here comes the shovel. You yet again get spanked and "pile for cover". Do you own fucking research. This particular question - about type of destruction caused by BUK missile - is trivial and takes about 5 minutes to look up. Way less than it took you to compose the pile of dung that you composed. You earlier said that it would get you to be embarrassed if you were proven wrong. But then you never are (to you) because you refuse to look.

Trouble is that you can't look away either. Hence, the hissy fits.

What a clown.

Patrick says

@"mostly reader" that's a personal comment. Please don't do that.

I'll try. But you can't not see how your platform is being used.

How is it being used?

mostly reader says

Aaaand, here comes the shovel. You yet again get spanked and "pile for cover".

You never cite any data ever. You have no basis for drawing any conclusion or thinking. You simply repeat what the US government claims.

If I wanted to know what you think, I would listen to CNN, or NPR - whatever. Same thing.

mostly reader says

his particular question - about type of destruction caused by BUK missile - is trivial and takes about 5 minutes to look up.

Then look it up and produce a link.

Patrick says

How is it being used?

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

That specific "contributor" is very passionate about a variety of topics, many of which I can't judge. But some I can, and very well.

In situations like that I apply a simple test to gauge quality of the source: how good are they on the topics that I DO understand very well? If they are mostly a match, or provoke thinking, that's likely a great source. If it's a mixed bag, then it's a "OK" source. If they are wrong time after time - well, it's a good reason to dismiss it altogether, at least without double-checking with other sources.

How often have you watched news and thought: "well, those guys sound about right". Until they hit a topic with which you are intimately familiar, and you realize that they are actually quite wrong? Typical reaction is to think - "well, they got this one wrong, but they must be right most of the time". My approach suggests that they are not. It works every time: regarding a radio station, a news channel, a forum handle, etc. That's why I can't name a single US-based mainstream source that I would trust. Specifically here, on the topics that I DO understand, the person is wrong yet passionate to the splutter on almost everything. If you try to quantify accuracy of information and use it as a nominator, and assertiveness as a denominator, the fraction in this case would literally be 0.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence. But statistics suggests otherwise. Most likely, the person is full of shit on most topics. Which, by itself, is not a sin because many people are. But if you count the volume and the passion... well, you get the idea.

Indeed, to each their own. You may be fine with that.

Patrick says

How is it being used?

He wants you to think I'm an Russian agent, as if anything I think or could get anybody else to think about this stupid fucking war in Ukraine would make any difference as to the outcome of it - which will be plenty of men dead, a destroyed Ukraine, and Ukraine not joining NATO.

mostly reader says

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

So you believe in YOUR APPROVED PROPAGANDA?

Bwhahahabababa

mostly reader says

Patrick says

How is it being used?

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

That specific "contributor" is very passionate about a variety of topics, many of which I can't judge. But some I can, and very well.

What you COULD do, is demonstrate your thinking. Explain your thinking.

I can certainly be wrong, undoubtedly, I have been wrong before...

20 years ago, I'd call you a moron for not believing in global warming. I would have said 97% of scientists agree. I would point out the melting icecaps.

But that was 20 years ago. Today, if I could talk to myself 20 years ago, I would explain why my 30 year old self was wrong. It's not 97% of scientists, it's a cherry picked list of people, most of which aren't actually scientists - go pick out 10 of them and find out what their credentials ACTUALLY are. I would point out the ice caps AREN'T melting and that despite the media making these claims, they are lying about it. We had satellite pictures back then, just as we do today - if the ice caps were melted, we'd see shipping lanes through it, and we didn't. I'd point out the ocean levels aren't rising, and there's many examples of that.

I would have talked to my 30 year old self. I'd pull up reports from the UN from the 1980s. I would have pointed out that SF, LA, and NYC aren't under water - something that was going to happen by 2000. I'd point out the Hubbert Peak hadn't hit anywhere yet, because we all still had energy.

It wouldn't matter if I could convince my 30 year old self that I am correct (although I am) - my earlier self would eventually find it out for himself, but I'm pretty certain I could convince him.

My point though, is that it doesn't matter if I could convince him or not. It doesn't matter AT ALL, what I think about Ukraine, the conflict in Ukraine, the motivations for it, or the results. The results will be the results. It doesn't matter what I think, you think, or anybody thinks. What will happen will happen - but you can't talk civilly about it, you can't pontificate, you show no ability to think, you don't show original sources so I can (re?)consider my opinion and form new ones, you can just be pissed off I don't agree with you, and you offer NO new information with which I can reconsider my opinion.

You just are outraged I don't agree with you, and I have no idea, because you won't share it, how you form your beliefs. I share mine frequently, and you just ignore them - refute them. If you refute them, and I find out you were correct, I can change my mind. But I will not be battered and cajoled and beaten into "changing my mind".

Look, you treat this as a battle, some sort of fight. If I'm wrong, I want to know it, but in order to change my mind, I need more information.

And it's not "Russian propaganda" that makes me distrust the US government and media either - it's that they're fucking complete liars. I try to ignore them as much as possible, because if they say "X is true", their history is SO HORRIBLE, I tend to think it's false, even if it is true. They are such fucking liars, that I have to actively guard myself against thinking they ALWAYS lie, and I do this by ignoring them as much as possible.

You think the US didn't overthrow Ukraine despite having Victoria Nuland caught in a call picking out Arseniy Yatseniuk as the next leader nearly 3 weeks before Viktor Yanukovych abandoned his hold on power and fled? Why would Nuland be picking out a next leader unless she knew what was about to happen, and how would she know? She's not a psychic. It was a coup, of course. What did the protesters want, what ACTION did they want Yanukovych to take? They just wanted him out. Elections were only a year away anyhow.

The CIA coups in Iran and Guatemala, it's the same fucking pattern. People are paid to protest "the leader" not a policy.

Today, if you point out the US government is lying, AGAIN, you're called Russian propaganda. It's so fucking tiresome. It's so stupid and lazy.

Like I said, a lie has many stories, the truth only has one. It's difficult to know the truth, but pretty easy to know the lies.

If there is something I've learned in life is most people just believe, they don't build a justification for their beliefs. They don't know why they think what they claim to "think". They merely believe. I may be wrong about my assessment of the Ukrainian situation, but what I'm quite certain about is that if I am, I won't learn it from you. You just believe. You don't know why you do and you don't care to explain certainly, and probably can't.

You seem to be simply enraged that I actually think, and that's not permitted when you don't do it.

richwicks says

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated and turned on, you suddenly know all the attrocities of Russia you're supposedly angry about but have

It is irritating that you are clueless about that part of the world yet continue to spout nonsense. Putin will not attack Ukraine, there were no Russian troops in Ukraine in 2014, Crimea is 90 pct ethnic Russian, Sevastopol is the only Russian port in Black sea, Russia does not experience inflation in prices, etc. After being wrong so many times it is better perhaps to just be quiet, learn Russian, and read up so you know a little bit.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated and turned on, you suddenly know all the attrocities of Russia you're supposedly angry about but have

It is irritating that you are clueless about that part of the world yet continue to spout nonsense. Putin will not attack Ukraine, there were no Russian troops in Ukraine in 2014, Crimea is 90 pct ethnic Russian, Sevastopol is the only Russian port in Black sea, Russia does not experience inflation in prices, etc. After being wrong so many times it is better perhaps to just be quiet, learn Russian, and read up so you know a little bit.

Then correct me, stupid. Jesus, yes, I'm not as knowledgeable about Ukraine as I am about the middle east, but I sure as fuck know MY government and propaganda complex.

I GUARANTEE the US is up to no good there and you know this too. What the fuck is Hunter Biden doing on the BOD of Burisma? Working???

You seem to be simply enraged that I actually think, and that's not permitted when you don't do it.

I'm pointing out that you are full of shit in most trivial, easy to verify topics, and that the amount of garbage that you produce makes it clear that you are something other than an honest agent.

Have you already finished your research on shrapnel vs. bullet holes? Or too busy "actually thinking"?

mostly reader says

I'm pointing out that you are full of shit in most trivial, easy to verify topics

FOR EXAMPLE?

All you do is ceaselessly make claims and make insults.

What SPECIFICALLY do you think I'm incorrect about? That the US overthrew Ukraine perhaps? Denying that is like denying water is wet.

mostly reader says

Have you already finished your research on shrapnel vs. bullet holes?

You have ZERO credibility with me and have earned that level of trust.

I just assume you're either lying or full of shit if you don't provide accompanying data at this point, and I'm right to do it

You make only claims, you never back the up, and a good reason not to back them up is you simply can't

You are utterly untrustworthy and no claim you make without justification should be taken seriously.

richwicks says

FOR EXAMPLE?

LOL. Again? FOR EXAMPLE - that horseshit about "bullet holes in fuselage". Since you don't read me, regretfully you'll have to do that research yourself, although I pointed out the direction. But despair not - it only takes minutes, if not seconds.

You should know that you look like a complete idiot to anyone who does trivial internet search on the subject ("how BUK destroys it's target" for wider scope, or "BUK shrapnel mh17" to get right to the point).

I can only imagine where you've picked up that "bullet holes" nonsense. Hint: when you go sewage-diving for info, at least cross-check your data. It's not honey that your sources feed you.

Anyone who thinks they know the truth is a fool imo. Most likely that both governments are lying their asses off. But, is it not fair to say Russia has kicked the shit out of Ukraine? If not, why the endless backup from other countries and all of a sudden other countries being added to NATO?

WineHorror1 says

But, is it not fair to say Russia has kicked the shit out of Ukraine?

They've done serious damage, but Russia knows they have no serious threat of attack from Ukraine. So they can play a long game. Besides the nukes, Russia is not powerful with conventional warfare. But neither is Ukraine without support from Europe and us. This is the usual proxy war with Russia. We've played the same game.

Fact is, where have all conventional wars been recently. The ME and Eastern & Western Europe. It's a shit show and likely always will be. The last major conflict in North America was the Civil war. It's been ages since we've had any local conflict. Fact is though, we could take Canada or Mexico in a couple weeks if we wanted to. There's no need to. That is why Russia looks to be the jackass in all this. Ukraine ain't no saint, but they've just been fighting on their own land and not invading Russia.

Given the cultures are somewhat similar, this is all a big fucking joke. Offer Ukraine $X billion for whatever swath of land Russia wants. If Russia takes and keeps the East it is going to cost substantially more than just offering to buy it up. Countries sell land, hello Louisiana Purchase and tons of other examples. This is clearly a breakdown in adulting or just wanting to kill people. I think it's both.