patrick.net

richwicks says

that was shot down by the Ukrainians, you can see the fucking bullet holes on the fuselage

OMG, Bozo resumes his act! (grabbing popcorn)

Just as I pointed out in another thread how you recycle same old debunked BS - you don't disappoint.

Just so you know (who am I kidding? not you of course, someone who can possibly make a mistake of taking you seriously) BUK missile isn't meant to hit the target directly. It explodes at a distance, and destroys the target with pre-packaged shrapnel. Which is approximately bullet-sized, but different shape.

It's next to impossible for a casual observer to tell the difference between shrapnel holes and bullet holes on a small sample. On a larger sample, shrapnel holes pattern exhibits inconsistency. IIRC that inconsistency made it possible to tell somewhat soon that the damage was not caused by the gun fire.

Is that all? No, that's not all. The shape of shrapnel actually changed from release to release of BUKs. More detailed analyses, plus recovered shrapnel IIRC, made it possible to identify the shape in question, and pinpoint the version of BUK used in the shooting.

Indeed, team Putin clung to the "shut down by an aircraft" version real hard. So hard that they produced messages from air-traffic controller Carlos (LOL), someone who witnessed the pilot taking off (that didn't last either), and even went to Wikipedia and changed flying characteristics of SU-25. In short - they employed the "let's pile up lots of shit, something will stick, and if not - it will take time to clean it up" strategy.

Hey, by any chance, were you involved with any of that Wikipedia business? Asking for a friend.

mostly reader says

Just so you know (who am I kidding? not you of course, someone who can possibly make a mistake of taking you seriously) BUK missile isn't meant to hit the target directly. It explodes at a distance, and destroys the target with pre-packaged shrapnel. Which is approximately bullet-sized, but different shape.

So?

mostly reader says

It's next to impossible for a casual observer to tell the difference between shrapnel holes and bullet holes on a small sample. On a larger sample, shrapnel holes pattern exhibits inconsistency. IIRC that inconsistency made it possible to tell somewhat soon that the damage was not caused by the gun fire.

It's pretty fucking easy to tell when audio has been modified and grafted together though. The supposed admission from a Russian officer Igor Bezler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=968-IPGKRiA



See the splice? Where it went from stereo to mono? It's pretty obvious, NO effort was made to make it believable. This is how Billy Mitchell was caught. They don't even fucking try anymore. Download it yourself, verify it for yourself.

Gee, why was the evidence faked? Golly, I have no idea. It's almost like they had to create fake evidence to falsely convict somebody, but US intelligence agencies would never do that, and if they did, they'd be professional, and not be caught, right?


original link

Not anymore, they just depend on propagandists, and useful idiots like you to shout down anybody that has more than 2 braincells to rub together.

They were caught faking evidence, 8 years ago. EIGHT years ago. Why are they publishing fake evidence? Why hasn't PooTube taking it down for "false and misleading information"?

mostly reader says

Is that all? No, that's not all. The shape of shrapnel actually changed from release to release of BUKs. More detailed analyses, plus recovered shrapnel IIRC, made it possible to identify the shape in question, and pinpoint the version of BUK used in the shooting.

The first thing they did is that the UNITED STATES seized all the evidence, and now it's not available for inspection.

The US does false flags ALL THE FUCKING time. Mi6 does too. That's what the Skripal's OBVIOUSLY were.

The difference between me and you, is that I have evidence and can readily produce it. You don't. You have insults, a bunch of propaganda shit in your head, and not much more. I keep saying, this is the world's most powerful research and information tool EVER made. It's trivial to check the veracity of our government. Takes only minutes.

A lie has many stories, the truth, has only one.

CGI! False Flag! Altered audio! Admission! ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!!

Why don't you prove your earlier statement that those holes are "fucking bullet holes" (now that I explained to you the shrapnel thing)

Or will you, like your Kremlin gurus, grab a shovel and start piling up "anything but", for the sake of distraction?

I'm seeing the shovel.

mostly reader says

CGI! False Flag! Altered audio! Admission! ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!!

Never claimed CGI, this is a stawman. I expected a logical fallacy from you. As I said, I can readily produce evidence for my conclusions, you NEVER can. Why is that?

mostly reader says

Why don't you prove your earlier statement that those holes are "fucking bullet holes" (now that I explained to you the shrapnel thing)

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence. I don't think you're credible, and I don't believe you do any critical thinking at all. You just regurgitate. It's a waste of my time to try to prove that what you are saying is correct. You don't present supporting evidence, because you have none.

You have no ability to think with nuance. You see everything as black or white, good or bad. You can't imagine that both governments are lying. I expect the Russian government to lie, but I get upset when the US government lies to me to try create the propaganda necessary for fucking World War III.

richwicks says

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence.

To be clear: you are denying my explanation that BUK missile is intended to destroy the target by remote explosion and shrapnel?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Your explanations aren't backed up with any evidence.

To be clear: you are denying my explanation that BUK missile is intended to destroy the target by remote explosion and shrapnel?

No, I'm saying I'm not going to take your word for it, CERTAINLY won't take the US government's word for it, and I know with certainty that the initial evidence the US presented that the Russians did it was falsified, something you've ignored, of course.

My reasoning is, if the United States had solid evidence (and confidence) that the Russians shot down MH17:

1) They wouldn't have produced a faked audio recording of Igor Bezler, but they did one day after the shoot down, on July 18, 2014 - the haste of which they produced this propaganda might explain the incompetence of the product.
2) Malaysia would have been allowed unfettered access to the wreckage of the plane, and they weren't.
3) Russians would have been allowed to investigate the wreckage of the plane, perhaps under surveillance, but that's fine, but they weren't.
4) Ukranians would have been allowed to investigate the wrekage of the plane, but they weren't.
5) Andriy Lysenko (Ukrainian security official) wouldn't have announced 2 weeks later that the black box indicated the plane had been hit by a missile, since the Ukrainians couldn't have had knowledge of this.
6) The black box would have been released IMMEDIATELY to prevent tampering, it wasn't.

They sure go to a lot of fuckery when all they have to do is tell the truth, don't they? Well, you have to go through a lot of fuckery, when you are lying.

The US doesn't even care if Russia shot down MH17 - they were going to claim that regardless. They don't give a shit about the victims, they don't care about the lives lost. All the propaganda works in the favor of the United States as well, so they had motive, as well.

Who benefits by shooting down MH17? Not Russia.

Russia gets blamed for everything, even that Neocon cunt losing the election to a carnival barker. They are being blamed now for inflation. Doesn't matter what they do, the US federal government has no integrity or honesty. They have no shame or pride and they just think people are fucking idiots, and largely, they are right. They lie STRAIGHT to our faces, and YOU say "can I have some more sir? Yes sir, I see 3, 4 or 5 fingers sir, whatever you tell me to see sir. No sir, I will deny my reasoning ability and senses, if you ask me to sir." It's pathetic to me, but whatever, it's YOUR integrity you have to live with, or lack of it.

mostly reader says

OMG, Bozo resumes his act!

@"mostly reader" that's a personal comment. Please don't do that.

richwicks says

No, I'm saying I'm not going to take your word for it, CERTAINLY won't take the US government's word for it, and I know with certainty that the initial evidence the US presented that the Russians did it was falsified, something you've ignored, of course.
...
...
...

Aaaand, here comes the shovel. You yet again get spanked and "pile for cover". Do you own fucking research. This particular question - about type of destruction caused by BUK missile - is trivial and takes about 5 minutes to look up. Way less than it took you to compose the pile of dung that you composed. You earlier said that it would get you to be embarrassed if you were proven wrong. But then you never are (to you) because you refuse to look.

Trouble is that you can't look away either. Hence, the hissy fits.

What a clown.

Patrick says

@"mostly reader" that's a personal comment. Please don't do that.

I'll try. But you can't not see how your platform is being used.

How is it being used?

mostly reader says

Aaaand, here comes the shovel. You yet again get spanked and "pile for cover".

You never cite any data ever. You have no basis for drawing any conclusion or thinking. You simply repeat what the US government claims.

If I wanted to know what you think, I would listen to CNN, or NPR - whatever. Same thing.

mostly reader says

his particular question - about type of destruction caused by BUK missile - is trivial and takes about 5 minutes to look up.

Then look it up and produce a link.

Patrick says

How is it being used?

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

That specific "contributor" is very passionate about a variety of topics, many of which I can't judge. But some I can, and very well.

In situations like that I apply a simple test to gauge quality of the source: how good are they on the topics that I DO understand very well? If they are mostly a match, or provoke thinking, that's likely a great source. If it's a mixed bag, then it's a "OK" source. If they are wrong time after time - well, it's a good reason to dismiss it altogether, at least without double-checking with other sources.

How often have you watched news and thought: "well, those guys sound about right". Until they hit a topic with which you are intimately familiar, and you realize that they are actually quite wrong? Typical reaction is to think - "well, they got this one wrong, but they must be right most of the time". My approach suggests that they are not. It works every time: regarding a radio station, a news channel, a forum handle, etc. That's why I can't name a single US-based mainstream source that I would trust. Specifically here, on the topics that I DO understand, the person is wrong yet passionate to the splutter on almost everything. If you try to quantify accuracy of information and use it as a nominator, and assertiveness as a denominator, the fraction in this case would literally be 0.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence. But statistics suggests otherwise. Most likely, the person is full of shit on most topics. Which, by itself, is not a sin because many people are. But if you count the volume and the passion... well, you get the idea.

Indeed, to each their own. You may be fine with that.

Patrick says

How is it being used?

He wants you to think I'm an Russian agent, as if anything I think or could get anybody else to think about this stupid fucking war in Ukraine would make any difference as to the outcome of it - which will be plenty of men dead, a destroyed Ukraine, and Ukraine not joining NATO.

mostly reader says

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

So you believe in YOUR APPROVED PROPAGANDA?

Bwhahahabababa

mostly reader says

Patrick says

How is it being used?

My synopsis - as a propaganda platform. No more and no less. And not the type of propaganda that would make US a better place, either.

That specific "contributor" is very passionate about a variety of topics, many of which I can't judge. But some I can, and very well.

What you COULD do, is demonstrate your thinking. Explain your thinking.

I can certainly be wrong, undoubtedly, I have been wrong before...

20 years ago, I'd call you a moron for not believing in global warming. I would have said 97% of scientists agree. I would point out the melting icecaps.

But that was 20 years ago. Today, if I could talk to myself 20 years ago, I would explain why my 30 year old self was wrong. It's not 97% of scientists, it's a cherry picked list of people, most of which aren't actually scientists - go pick out 10 of them and find out what their credentials ACTUALLY are. I would point out the ice caps AREN'T melting and that despite the media making these claims, they are lying about it. We had satellite pictures back then, just as we do today - if the ice caps were melted, we'd see shipping lanes through it, and we didn't. I'd point out the ocean levels aren't rising, and there's many examples of that.

I would have talked to my 30 year old self. I'd pull up reports from the UN from the 1980s. I would have pointed out that SF, LA, and NYC aren't under water - something that was going to happen by 2000. I'd point out the Hubbert Peak hadn't hit anywhere yet, because we all still had energy.

It wouldn't matter if I could convince my 30 year old self that I am correct (although I am) - my earlier self would eventually find it out for himself, but I'm pretty certain I could convince him.

My point though, is that it doesn't matter if I could convince him or not. It doesn't matter AT ALL, what I think about Ukraine, the conflict in Ukraine, the motivations for it, or the results. The results will be the results. It doesn't matter what I think, you think, or anybody thinks. What will happen will happen - but you can't talk civilly about it, you can't pontificate, you show no ability to think, you don't show original sources so I can (re?)consider my opinion and form new ones, you can just be pissed off I don't agree with you, and you offer NO new information with which I can reconsider my opinion.

You just are outraged I don't agree with you, and I have no idea, because you won't share it, how you form your beliefs. I share mine frequently, and you just ignore them - refute them. If you refute them, and I find out you were correct, I can change my mind. But I will not be battered and cajoled and beaten into "changing my mind".

Look, you treat this as a battle, some sort of fight. If I'm wrong, I want to know it, but in order to change my mind, I need more information.

And it's not "Russian propaganda" that makes me distrust the US government and media either - it's that they're fucking complete liars. I try to ignore them as much as possible, because if they say "X is true", their history is SO HORRIBLE, I tend to think it's false, even if it is true. They are such fucking liars, that I have to actively guard myself against thinking they ALWAYS lie, and I do this by ignoring them as much as possible.

You think the US didn't overthrow Ukraine despite having Victoria Nuland caught in a call picking out Arseniy Yatseniuk as the next leader nearly 3 weeks before Viktor Yanukovych abandoned his hold on power and fled? Why would Nuland be picking out a next leader unless she knew what was about to happen, and how would she know? She's not a psychic. It was a coup, of course. What did the protesters want, what ACTION did they want Yanukovych to take? They just wanted him out. Elections were only a year away anyhow.

The CIA coups in Iran and Guatemala, it's the same fucking pattern. People are paid to protest "the leader" not a policy.

Today, if you point out the US government is lying, AGAIN, you're called Russian propaganda. It's so fucking tiresome. It's so stupid and lazy.

Like I said, a lie has many stories, the truth only has one. It's difficult to know the truth, but pretty easy to know the lies.

If there is something I've learned in life is most people just believe, they don't build a justification for their beliefs. They don't know why they think what they claim to "think". They merely believe. I may be wrong about my assessment of the Ukrainian situation, but what I'm quite certain about is that if I am, I won't learn it from you. You just believe. You don't know why you do and you don't care to explain certainly, and probably can't.

You seem to be simply enraged that I actually think, and that's not permitted when you don't do it.

richwicks says

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated and turned on, you suddenly know all the attrocities of Russia you're supposedly angry about but have

It is irritating that you are clueless about that part of the world yet continue to spout nonsense. Putin will not attack Ukraine, there were no Russian troops in Ukraine in 2014, Crimea is 90 pct ethnic Russian, Sevastopol is the only Russian port in Black sea, Russia does not experience inflation in prices, etc. After being wrong so many times it is better perhaps to just be quiet, learn Russian, and read up so you know a little bit.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

It's irritating, as soon as you NPCs are activated and turned on, you suddenly know all the attrocities of Russia you're supposedly angry about but have

It is irritating that you are clueless about that part of the world yet continue to spout nonsense. Putin will not attack Ukraine, there were no Russian troops in Ukraine in 2014, Crimea is 90 pct ethnic Russian, Sevastopol is the only Russian port in Black sea, Russia does not experience inflation in prices, etc. After being wrong so many times it is better perhaps to just be quiet, learn Russian, and read up so you know a little bit.

Then correct me, stupid. Jesus, yes, I'm not as knowledgeable about Ukraine as I am about the middle east, but I sure as fuck know MY government and propaganda complex.

I GUARANTEE the US is up to no good there and you know this too. What the fuck is Hunter Biden doing on the BOD of Burisma? Working???

You seem to be simply enraged that I actually think, and that's not permitted when you don't do it.

I'm pointing out that you are full of shit in most trivial, easy to verify topics, and that the amount of garbage that you produce makes it clear that you are something other than an honest agent.

Have you already finished your research on shrapnel vs. bullet holes? Or too busy "actually thinking"?

mostly reader says

I'm pointing out that you are full of shit in most trivial, easy to verify topics

FOR EXAMPLE?

All you do is ceaselessly make claims and make insults.

What SPECIFICALLY do you think I'm incorrect about? That the US overthrew Ukraine perhaps? Denying that is like denying water is wet.

mostly reader says

Have you already finished your research on shrapnel vs. bullet holes?

You have ZERO credibility with me and have earned that level of trust.

I just assume you're either lying or full of shit if you don't provide accompanying data at this point, and I'm right to do it

You make only claims, you never back the up, and a good reason not to back them up is you simply can't

You are utterly untrustworthy and no claim you make without justification should be taken seriously.

richwicks says

FOR EXAMPLE?

LOL. Again? FOR EXAMPLE - that horseshit about "bullet holes in fuselage". Since you don't read me, regretfully you'll have to do that research yourself, although I pointed out the direction. But despair not - it only takes minutes, if not seconds.

You should know that you look like a complete idiot to anyone who does trivial internet search on the subject ("how BUK destroys it's target" for wider scope, or "BUK shrapnel mh17" to get right to the point).

I can only imagine where you've picked up that "bullet holes" nonsense. Hint: when you go sewage-diving for info, at least cross-check your data. It's not honey that your sources feed you.

Anyone who thinks they know the truth is a fool imo. Most likely that both governments are lying their asses off. But, is it not fair to say Russia has kicked the shit out of Ukraine? If not, why the endless backup from other countries and all of a sudden other countries being added to NATO?

WineHorror1 says

But, is it not fair to say Russia has kicked the shit out of Ukraine?

They've done serious damage, but Russia knows they have no serious threat of attack from Ukraine. So they can play a long game. Besides the nukes, Russia is not powerful with conventional warfare. But neither is Ukraine without support from Europe and us. This is the usual proxy war with Russia. We've played the same game.

Fact is, where have all conventional wars been recently. The ME and Eastern & Western Europe. It's a shit show and likely always will be. The last major conflict in North America was the Civil war. It's been ages since we've had any local conflict. Fact is though, we could take Canada or Mexico in a couple weeks if we wanted to. There's no need to. That is why Russia looks to be the jackass in all this. Ukraine ain't no saint, but they've just been fighting on their own land and not invading Russia.

Given the cultures are somewhat similar, this is all a big fucking joke. Offer Ukraine $X billion for whatever swath of land Russia wants. If Russia takes and keeps the East it is going to cost substantially more than just offering to buy it up. Countries sell land, hello Louisiana Purchase and tons of other examples. This is clearly a breakdown in adulting or just wanting to kill people. I think it's both.

WineHorror1 says

But, is it not fair to say Russia has kicked the shit out of Ukraine?

Depends on perspective. Russia was thought of as the second army in the world. This is no longer the case. Ukraine? Everyone expected that they would fold in 3 days. Melnyk, Ukrainian ambassador in Germany, recollected how on the first day of the war, in response for his pleas for help, was told: "it's pointless, in 48 hours we'll be living in new reality".

Instead, in the next week Ukraine proved that it can defend itself and that the takeover is not a walk in the park. Only then conversations about help got serious.

Now, I think that strategically Russia has already lost, as in "will have to be China's bitch for decades to come". The situation on the battlefield is not going well for them either.

Although the situation on the battlefield is harder to predict. Major developments in the upcoming months will be: 1) on one hand - lend-lease and more weapons to Ukraine. HIMARS, even in small numbers, are already wrecking havoc and making Russians reconsider their tactics 2) on the other - winter, crop shortage, and bribery of western politicians by Russians. In short - we'll see.

WineHorror1 says

If not, why the endless backup from other countries and all of a sudden other countries being added to NATO?

Because Russia is now recognized as a clear and present danger. That's the answer to both questions. It's not that everyone fell in love with Ukraine, although some did. It's that they'd rather pass the ammo than pay with blood

mostly reader says

richwicks says

FOR EXAMPLE?

LOL. Again? FOR EXAMPLE - that horseshit about "bullet holes in fuselage". Since you don't read me, regretfully you'll have to do that research yourself, although I pointed out the direction. But despair not - it only takes minutes, if not seconds.

You should know that you look like a complete idiot to anyone who does trivial internet search on the subject ("how BUK destroys it's target" for wider scope, or "BUK shrapnel mh17" to get right to the point).

I can only imagine where you've picked up that "bullet holes" nonsense. Hint: when you go sewage-diving for info, at least cross-check your data. It's not honey that your sources feed you.

Show me the reason why you believe a Russian BUK missile hit it, and that it produces a shrapnel pattern before it hits.

Show me why you believe that. Demonstrate your reasoning, for once.

You complain I don't pay attention to you, it's because you only present your opinions. You never present reasoning.

Everything that had strikethrough on it, I don't care about. It's just you raving again. Demonstrate you're capable of reasoning and not just repeating what the guberment told ya.

WineHorror1 says

RWSGFY says

WineHorror1 says

ohomen171 says

Decades ago, Stalin and Chairman Mao engineered famines that killed millions of people. Putin is the same kind of monster

Lots of people say this. Where's the proof? Seriously.

And another one goes off the deep end...

Where is the proof that Putin is the same kind of monster? I think you be full of shit.

The frivolous war he started to restore the empire is not enough of a monster deed for you? Open gloating about hunger his blockade may cause in the 3rd world unless Ukraine surrender and submit to his rule is acceptable in your book too? (In my best Yoda voice) Such a moral high ground occupy you.

mostly reader says

I can only imagine where you've picked up that "bullet holes" nonsense.

Sucked it right out of Putin's dick. Leave the guy alone: he's feeble-minded and have just confirmed that by confessing to being a Globull Worming believer in the past.

Eric Holder says

The frivolous war he started to restore the empire is not enough of a monster deed for you?

The war wasn't started to restore the empire. It was started because the United States overthrew Ukraine and started moving in NATO weaponry. On top of that, they also setup more than 30 BSL1 labs in the country.

Eric Holder says

mostly reader says

I can only imagine where you've picked up that "bullet holes" nonsense.

Sucked it right out of Putin's dick. Leave the guy alone: he's feeble-minded and have just confirmed that by confessing to being a Globull Worming believer in the past.

Can any of you demonstrate you can actually think and access information and not just insult people, when they are demonstrating that you are simply parroting American propaganda?

All you do is insult people, but can you demonstrate the basis of your "thinking"? Show me why you believe that Russia shot down MH17. Was it an accident? Why did the United States construct a fake recording from officer Igor Bezler:

https://patrick.net/post/1346294/2022-06-20-the-terrible-consequences-of-the#comment-1855462

It's obviously fake. If you like, I can show you how to extract the audio, I think Windows has a waveform viewer built into it, it used to, but it's been years since I've used it.

Why does the US construct false evidence constantly, if the US cares about what is true?

Can any of you demonstrate you can actually think? Show me your reasoning. I don't think you can though. I'm merely demonstrating you can't. You're the "conservative" version of this:



You can't be talked with, you're incapable of conversation, you can't defend "your" supposed thoughts because it's all indoctrination. You don't form "your" opinions, you just repeat them, angrily. THAT is what I'm demonstrating.

The US ALWAYS produces a bunch of bullshit in our "news" media, and (surprise!) it all was bullshit. They did this with Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iraq - they're doing it now with Ukraine. You guys don't learn, you're not even suspicious. It's weird. I didn't realize how easy it was to propagandize people. You realize, there's no handbook of "this works", what is astounding is what actually works. I completely understand how Nazi Germany, Communist China, and Bolshevik Russia was created now. Most people surrender their thinking to a master. I never realized that most people, BY FAR, are natural slaves.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/the-west-refuses-to-be-a-peacemaker-between-russia-and-ukraine-heres-why/

According to Radio Free Europe, Russia has “nearly doubled its income from energy sales to the EU” since it entered Ukraine, this despite the fact that the EU cut its oil imports by 20 percent and coal by 40 percent.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-13/us-quietly-urges-russia-fertilizer-deals-to-unlock-grain-trade

The US government is quietly encouraging agricultural and shipping companies to buy and carry more Russian fertilizer, according to people familiar with the efforts, as sanctions fears have led to a sharp drop in supplies, fueling spiraling global food costs.

Wait, what?

What happened to cutting off trade with Russia?

But many shippers, banks and insurers have been staying away from the trade out of fear they could inadvertently fall afoul of the rules. Russian fertilizer exports are down 24% this year. US officials, surprised by the extent of the caution, are in the seemingly paradoxical position of looking for ways to boost them.

Ah, just as with the oil industry, they are not going to risk any investment that senile pedo Biden's administration may confiscate at any moment.

So, the farmers' protests in the Netherlands is that supposed to be Putin's doing as well??

Trying to cause mass starvation by shutting down 1/3 of the farms in a country that has the second highest amount of agricultural goods exported in the world???

Nope, that is European arrogance the likes we last saw from Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Their righteousness offends every rational person.

The West now has a nightmare of a propaganda issue. The 3rd world can easily believe it is the Ukraine causing the grain holdups at the behest of Western governments.

richwicks says

What the fuck is Hunter Biden doing on the BOD of Burisma? Working???

Earning money for the big guy, we all know that

richwicks says

Can any of you demonstrate you can actually think

Aaaand, just like that, the village idiot appeals to "actually thinking".

See, @richwicks This is one of the techniques of Russian info-war: they throw bunch of shit on the fan and demand rebuttal for each brown spot on the wall. "Air-controller Carlos", "they were already dead", "they were shot down from the space", "bullet holes", "forged audio", etc, etc, etc. This technique - throwing shit on the fan - is now well recognized. Everyone knows that there is no point in jumping from one of your debunked point to another until there's closure in the first, because that's the point of the technique, to produce quantity and not worry about quality.

For you, that "first" is the point about bullet holes. That's where you crapped your pants, but were too shy to admit it. You chose to throw another hissy fit instead.

I must assume - the info-dumpster in which you crawl mentioned "holes" (of course!) and likely implied that those are "bullet holes". Now, why do I call it "info-dumpster"? Because anyone close to the topic knows that BUK primarily destroys target via remote explosion and shrapnel. I.e. holes in fuselage are BUK signature. As wikipedia explains, primary detonation mechanism is "proximity fuse" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system Indeed, feel free to go more technical than wikipedia (doubt that you will). Simple illustration is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q723WYABqjE (they made some mistakes but illustration of fragmentation effect is good enough) Seeing holes and describing them as "bullet holes" is a proximity manipulation, and you are either too stupid to recognize that or you are willingly lying. To reassert my opinion: I'm quite convinced that you are a propagandist and a liar. Reclassifying you as stupid would be an upgrade.

Should I expect another hissy fit about unreliable sources, or will you just try to jump to the next brown spot on the wall?

Misc says

Nope, that is European arrogance the likes we last saw from Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Their righteousness offends every rational person.

Neoliberalism is a return to feudalism, with the current top technocrats trying to reserve a permanent ruling class for themselves.

The war on Whites is actually a war on meritocracy. What space are reserved for Merit end up going to alumni, Princeton, Havard, Yale etc. actively discriminate against Asians, too.

The EU intends to ban new gas cars after 2035. They aren't building massive new energy generation plants to cover the new drain. Why? Because restricting travel is next. They buy up land under the guise of Green Open Space to reserve a future local monopoly food market for themselves, and openly discuss selling Ze Bugs as the only source of animal protein, while they eat plenty of fish and beef. Another way, by the way, to impose feudalism: High protein/fat diets make people more intelligent, aggressive, sex drive, and injury/sickness free.

My take: it is all Kayfabe, ALL of it.
2020 repo-market-imminent-bank-crash gets laundered through COVID bailouts. COVID bailout gets laundered through inflation. Inflation laundered through war in Ukraine. The resultant metastasized war will be laundered through Climate Change.
Neo-Eco-Tech-Feudalism results.

You are authorized to use your automobile only on alternate Tuesdays to go to 'Our Walmart Partners' for your family's Carbon adjusted Calorie Allotment

https://slaynews.com/news/europe-slash-gas-usage-survive-winter-iea-chief-warns/

Europe must drastically reduce natural gas consumption in order to survive through the winter, the head of the International Energy Agency (IEA) has warned.

IEA chief Fatih Birol recently called on all European Union (EU) member states to reduce gas consumption by 15% in the face of the threat of a complete Russian gas cutoff.

However, the IEA now says the EU will need to cut even more in order to get through the winter.

“Even if there is no single accident… Europe still needs to reduce its gas consumption about 20% compared to today in order to have safe and normal winter months,” Birol said.

Birol made the comments while issuing, what he called, a “red alert” for energy markets.

Patrick says

https://slaynews.com/news/europe-slash-gas-usage-survive-winter-iea-chief-warns/

Europe must drastically reduce natural gas consumption in order to survive through the winter, the head of the International Energy Agency (IEA) has warned.

IEA chief Fatih Birol recently called on all European Union (EU) member states to reduce gas consumption by 15% in the face of the threat of a complete Russian gas cutoff.

However, the IEA now says the EU will need to cut even more in order to get through the winter.

“Even if there is no single accident… Europe still needs to reduce its gas consumption about 20% compared to today in order to have safe and normal winter months,” Birol said.

Birol made the comments while issuing, what he called, a “red alert” for energy markets.

More like 40%.

Europe has always been dependent on Russian Energy, even when it was the USSR. When the USSR collapsed, if traitors didn't run their nations, they would have made inroads and agreements with Russia.

I think it's just a question of when. Either Europe will ally itself with Russia and dump their alliance with the United States, or the United States will dump their alliance with Europe and ally itself with Russia. When Russia was communist, the choice was clear, but they aren't communists anymore, they're just horrifically corrupt, just like Europe and the United States is.

Terrible consequences indeed:

Business Retreats and Sanctions Are Crippling the Russian Economy

118 Pages
Posted: 20 Jul 2022
Last revised: 27 Jul 2022
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld
Yale School of Management

Steven Tian
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Franek Sokolowski
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Michal Wyrebkowski
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Mateusz Kasprowicz
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Date Written: July 19, 2022

Abstract
As the Russian invasion of Ukraine enters into its fifth month, a common narrative has emerged that the unity of the world in standing up to Russia has somehow devolved into a “war of economic attrition which is taking its toll on the west”, given the supposed “resilience” and even “prosperity” of the Russian economy. This is simply untrue – and a reflection of widely held but factually incorrect misunderstandings over how the Russian economy is actually holding up amidst the exodus of over 1,000 global companies and international sanctions.

That these misunderstandings persist is not surprising. Since the invasion, the Kremlin’s economic releases have become increasingly cherry-picked, selectively tossing out unfavorable metrics while releasing only those that are more favorable. These Putin-selected statistics are then carelessly trumpeted across media and used by reams of well-meaning but careless experts in building out forecasts which are excessively, unrealistically favorable to the Kremlin.

Our team of experts, using private Russian language and unconventional data sources including high frequency consumer data, cross-channel checks, releases from Russia’s international trade partners, and data mining of complex shipping data, have released one of the first comprehensive economic analyses measuring Russian current economic activity five months into the invasion, and assessing Russia’s economic outlook.

From our analysis, it becomes clear: business retreats and sanctions are catastrophically crippling the Russian economy. We tackle a wide range of common misperceptions – and shed light on what is actually going on inside Russia, including:

- Russia’s strategic positioning as a commodities exporter has irrevocably deteriorated, as it now deals from a position of weakness with the loss of its erstwhile main markets, and faces steep challenges executing a “pivot to Asia” with non-fungible exports such as piped gas

- Despite some lingering leakiness, Russian imports have largely collapsed, and the country faces stark challenges securing crucial inputs, parts, and technology from hesitant trade partners, leading to widespread supply shortages within its domestic economy

- Despite Putin’s delusions of self-sufficiency and import substitution, Russian domestic production has come to a complete standstill with no capacity to replace lost businesses, products and talent; the hollowing out of Russia’s domestic innovation and production base has led to soaring prices and consumer angst

- As a result of the business retreat, Russia has lost companies representing ~40% of its GDP, reversing nearly all of three decades’ worth of foreign investment and buttressing unprecedented simultaneous capital and population flight in a mass exodus of Russia’s economic base

- Putin is resorting to patently unsustainable, dramatic fiscal and monetary intervention to smooth over these structural economic weaknesses, which has already sent his government budget into deficit for the first time in years and drained his foreign reserves even with high energy prices – and Kremlin finances are in much, much more dire straits than conventionally understood

- Russian domestic financial markets, as an indicator of both present conditions and future outlook, are the worst performing markets in the entire world this year despite strict capital controls, and have priced in sustained, persistent weakness within the economy with liquidity and credit contracting – in addition to Russia being substantively cut off from international financial markets, limiting its ability to tap into pools of capital needed for the revitalization of its crippled economy

Looking ahead, there is no path out of economic oblivion for Russia as long as the allied countries remain unified in maintaining and increasing sanctions pressure against Russia, and The Kyiv School of Economics and McFaul-Yermak Working Group have led the way in proposing additional sanctions measures.

Defeatist headlines arguing that Russia’s economy has bounced back are simply not factual - the facts are that, by any metric and on any level, the Russian economy is reeling, and now is not the time to step on the brakes.

Download the visual slide deck accompanying this research monograph here: https://yale.box.com/s/7f6agg5ezscj234kahx35lil04udqgeo

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193

RWSGFY says

Terrible consequences indeed:

Business Retreats and Sanctions Are Crippling the Russian Economy

118 Pages
Posted: 20 Jul 2022
Last revised: 27 Jul 2022
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld
Yale School of Management

Steven Tian
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Franek Sokolowski
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Michal Wyrebkowski
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Mateusz Kasprowicz
Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute

Date Written: July 19, 2022

For Fuck's Sake - the West has the same stupid propaganda nonsense bullshit the Soviets did now.

You know what happened when McDonald's closed their doors? ALL the buildings were seized and now there's a Russian McDonald's running in its place, meanwhile, western propaganda is telling us that we need to eat fucking bugs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vkusno_i_tochka

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/07/28/first-major-german-city-turns-off-hot-water-and-public-building-electricity-to-save-gas/

Hanover, a city in the northwest of Germany, has become the first major metropolitan area to try and reduce the use of natural gas by removing hot water from public buildings. The move comes as natural gas supplies from Russia are reduced to 20% of capacity. Germany is attempting to fill up storage facilities of natural gas in order to survive the winter.