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Taxes


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2022 Jul 11, 5:28pm   16,458 views  227 comments

by GreaterNYCDude   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

I've been thinking about this off and on lately, and there's been some recent threads related to the topic, so I figure I'll set up a separate thread.

Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.

Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.

For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.

In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.

So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.

Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.

Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".

Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.

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185   WookieMan   2024 Oct 11, 10:54pm  

clambo says

When I tell them that I departed California and save $6000 per year in California taxes because Florida has no income tax, they are very surprised.

We were close to moving to CA about 7 years back. It didn't make sense. We'd make the same and get taxed double. That's saying a lot from IL. I'm sure your fees are higher too, things like car registration. Higher gas prices. 5 hours to the Caribbean. Sorry, I have no interest in Hawaii.

We would have loved the weather for sure, but we're talking $40-50k per year. Considering we max out retirement funds we'd look rich on paper, but be poor. And I'll never rent again, so housing would suck up a huge chunk.
186   clambo   2024 Oct 11, 11:23pm  

Fees are all lower in Florida compared to California.
My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.
My dental, medical, and car insurance premiums are less in Florida.
187   Rin   2024 Oct 12, 7:19am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says






Mel Gibson in 'The Patriot' said it the best ... why would I want 3000 tyrants, one mile away, versus one tyrant, 3000 miles away?
188   WookieMan   2024 Oct 12, 8:12am  

clambo says

My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.

I've heard different. Can the counties add on extra registration fees? Not questioning if you're right, you've lived there. I just recall my buddy saying his were insane there to register a car but that might have plate fees as well.

I don't know how you fund government without higher fees on something with no income tax. I imagine it's got to be the sales tax. I know beer is a fortune down there compared to IL. I've flown with cases of beer in checked bags to save $40-50 at least going to FL. I have a whole foam setup so baggage handlers don't break the cans.

We're wealthy for our age, but I'm a cheapskate. Southwest so two bags are free. Plus sometimes we get in late and I don't want to have to stop to crab a nightcap on vacation or stop at a bar and spend even more. Just get to the hotel or house and relax for an hour or two.
189   RC2006   2024 Oct 12, 8:23am  

clambo says

Fees are all lower in Florida compared to California.
My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.
My dental, medical, and car insurance premiums are less in Florida.


Same in Idaho. California rips everyone off. I register my cars two years at a time and it's still half as much as one year in CA. Insurance, utilities, property tax all less.
Screw the extra you have to pay in taxes for all the illegals and grifters.
190   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 12, 10:44am  

My car insurance went up when I moved from CA to TX. I was surprised.
191   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 12, 10:48am  

clambo says

So far, I've saved over $24,000 that I did not send to the California Franchise Tax Board.


About 50K for me so far...
192   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 12, 10:49am  

clambo says

So far, I've saved over $24,000 that I did not send to the California Franchise Tax Board.


About 50K for me so far over 2 years... I still work out of San Francisco, just remotely.
193   WookieMan   2024 Oct 12, 10:58am  

SoTex says

My car insurance went up when I moved from CA to TX. I was surprised.

Probably reckless cowboy driving. More trailers and potential accidents. Never liked a visit to TX at this point. I want to try San Antonio though. Austin, Houston, Dallas, Galveston all suck as an outsider from a shitty state myself.

Have to go to Chicago tomorrow morning. I'm dreading every minute of it. I'm a mostly solid spouse, so supporting the wife on a bull shit run where she'll have to dodge bullets likely. I worked during the marathon every year. It's a shit show. City is shut down basically. I'll probably lose 5lbs walking around.

Bringing the backpack cooler with beers and drinks for the kids (not beer for them). It's going to be a rough day. Whatever, it was a goal. I don't agree but I cannot control. Swimming would be more beneficial to her body type. She won't listen. Said every husband.
194   HeadSet   2024 Oct 12, 5:33pm  

Rin says

Mel Gibson in 'The Patriot' said it the best ... why would I want 3000 tyrants, one mile away, versus one tyrant, 3000 miles away?

Actually, Virginia says it best...


198   stereotomy   2024 Oct 21, 12:08pm  

SoTex says

My car insurance went up when I moved from CA to TX. I was surprised.

TX has to deal with mass car theft and illegals causing crashes. I moved from TX to the PRNY and I'm paying half what I did in TX.
199   HeadSet   2024 Oct 21, 12:36pm  

stereotomy says

TX has to deal with mass car theft and illegals causing crashes.

In Virginia, USAA raised my car insurance specifically to cover uninsured illegal drivers.
202   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 23, 7:01pm  

HeadSet says

In Virginia, USAA raised my car insurance specifically to cover uninsured illegal drivers.


I have USAA too, for being a military brat. I don't think I get the same end of year rebates that actual military people do though. My dad's are better that's for sure.

Come to think of it I don't remember getting one the past few years. I get like $15 lol.
203   ForcedTQ   2024 Oct 23, 8:02pm  

The_Deplorable says





North Dakota Right Now
204   HeadSet   2024 Oct 24, 2:21pm  

SoTex says

I have USAA too, for being a military brat. I don't think I get the same end of year rebates that actual military people do though. My dad's are better that's for sure.

Yes, that "Subscriber's Savings Account" surplus comes every year in Dec and makes a nice $300 or so Xmas present.
208   Misc   2024 Nov 3, 7:45pm  

Always remember that California has enshrined a balanced budget amendment into its State Constitution.

Obviously, that's why its government is trying to hit up the citizens for a $20 billion dollar bond issuance. - No you can't just make something like that up.

I think everyone should pay as much attention to laws as our political elites do.
210   WookieMan   2024 Nov 13, 6:24am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says






IL is dragged higher by sales taxes from Chicago/Cook County. Property taxes are somewhat high, but that would really only effect poor homeowners. $15k per year is not that big of a deal. Currently only at $3,300 myself but going to that level. One less trip, whatever. 3 kids in sports, there's less time to do travel anyway.

Income tax is the bigger bitch in most states if you make good money. IL is actually within reason. I don't mind it too much paying $5,600 roughly on $100k. Federal income taxes are the biggest bitch if you make W-2 income. We have solid infrastructure compared to a state like Indiana. Wisconsin has upped it's game, but state income taxes I think are slightly higher than IL.

I'm sure these numbers don't account for the housing tax either. Montana has no sales tax, but 6.5%(ish) off the top of my head income tax. But the overpriced subdivision houses selling for $500k in Montana are overpriced by $200k for the build quality. There's land out the ass. A house should be $300k max in Montana unless it's custom, luxury built style. So you get hit with $100-300k out the gate moving to MT.
212   Misc   2024 Nov 15, 3:28am  

Yep, that's just income taxes. I thought I saw somewhere that when factoring in all taxes VAT, etc. France had the highest at 70%.
213   WookieMan   2024 Nov 15, 4:14am  

Misc says

Yep, that's just income taxes. I thought I saw somewhere that when factoring in all taxes VAT, etc. France had the highest at 70%.

This is why a hate Europe without wanting or willingly visit. Ewwwwww high speed rail. Old infrastructure. No human should be taxed at 50% of their output.

USA exists because of these retards. And it's a slow creep here. My wife alone employs 30 people with her sales. Corporate and personal tax is getting worse. We'll personally pay $40k and her company probably $300-400k. Her company SAVES government money. We're talking $4-5M annually, every year in savings for counties and municipalities.

My other buddy runs a business and it saves government and other businesses massive amount of money. Don't want to dox, but it was a brilliant idea. Best man in my wedding. Yet we punish business. Yes there are some bad actor businesses, but in just these two examples of people I know it saves government at least $10M/yr and employees get paid.

This is why I was a Trump voter. As long as he doesn't fuck this term up for whatever reason, we have a bright future. These faggot issues need to get swept under the rug. Let's just run a country like men should. Powerful smart women are fine. But we need to stop pandering to the 1% of fucking weirdos. I don't want to be Europe.
214   GreaterNYCDude   2024 Nov 16, 7:27am  

Well when you compare the US to Europe, the US doesn't look so bad.
It will be interesting to see what Trump can do with tarrifs his second time around. I'm not holding my breath that the DOGE duo of Musk and Vivek will be able to come in and lop off a third of the government. Sure they put forth a range of ideas for cost savings, but implementation is where the rubber meets the road. Many in government are unionized employees so one just can't come in and fire them without cause.
215   Booger   2024 Nov 16, 7:39am  

GreaterNYCDude says

Many in government are unionized employees so one just can't come in and fire them without cause.


If they shut down the entire agency or lose funding, they lose their jobs just the same.
216   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Nov 16, 11:51am  

Booger says

If they shut down the entire agency or lose funding, they lose their jobs just the same.


Or move the agency to Guam.
218   zzyzzx   2024 Nov 25, 5:37am  

SoTex says

Or move the agency to Guam.

I don't understand that reference. Please explain.
219   WookieMan   2024 Nov 25, 5:44am  

zzyzzx says

SoTex says


Or move the agency to Guam.

I don't understand that reference. Please explain.

Ongoing joke/troll directed at a former (I think) user. I do actually want to go to Guam. I think SoTex and I are the only ones that toss Guam out on threads. I honestly forget the reason. If I recall someone had a bad take and brought up Guam and we made fun of him. It was funny at the time.
220   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Nov 25, 5:49am  

Trump Treasury pick Scott Bessent to prioritize tax cuts, WSJ reports

Nov 24 (Reuters) - President-elect Donald Trump's nominee for U.S. Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, will prioritize delivering on election tax cut pledges, he told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published on Sunday.

Bessent told the WSJ that tax cut measures would include making Trump's first term tax cuts permanent, as well as eliminating taxes on tips, social-security benefits and overtime pay.

Bessent would also focus on enacting tariffs, cutting spending and maintaining the status of the dollar as the world's reserve currency, he told the newspaper in the interview.

Bessent, who has been a donor, economic adviser and booster on TV for Trump, was nominated as U.S. Treasury secretary by Trump on Friday.

Bessent has spent his career in finance, working for macro investment billionaire George Soros and noted short seller Jim Chanos, and has advocated for tax reform and deregulation, particularly to spur bank lending and energy production, as noted in a recent opinion piece, opens new tab he wrote for The Wall Street Journal.

As U.S. Treasury secretary, Bessent will essentially be the highest-ranking U.S. economic official, responsible for maintaining the world's largest economy, from collecting taxes and paying the nation's bills to managing the $28.6-trillion Treasury debt market and overseeing financial regulation.

The Treasury boss also runs U.S. financial sanctions policy, has influence over the U.S.-led International Monetary Fund, World Bank and other international financial institutions, and manages national security screenings of foreign investments in the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-treasury-pick-scott-bessent-prioritize-tax-cuts-wsj-reports-2024-11-25/


221   ForcedTQ   2024 Nov 25, 6:14am  

Booger says

GreaterNYCDude says


Many in government are unionized employees so one just can't come in and fire them without cause.


If they shut down the entire agency or lose funding, they lose their jobs just the same.

The big thing that not many are talking about will be vetting the Constitutionality of all these agencies. That’s how you get rid of them, if they are not expressly called out for by function, they are for the States to create and control. Congress cannot even create a law that creates an agency that does not have reason for being in alignment with the constitution, although we know they have and that’s what needs to be fixed here. Consequently, Federal taxes will/should go down.
222   clambo   2024 Nov 25, 6:57am  

The "Tax Burden By State" map above is interesting.
Wyoming, New Hampshire, Florida and Tennessee had the lowest.
I have lived in New Hampshire which was nice except the weather was a bit extreme.
Last year in Florida I heard from several people they were moving to Tennessee because housing was cheaper there.
I've never met someone who was from Wyoming.
Tangental to this, I recall talking about taxes etc. in France with a French lady living in La Paz for a while.
Taxes are terrible in France from her report.

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