10
0

Taxes


 invite response                
2022 Jul 11, 5:28pm   20,103 views  289 comments

by GreaterNYCDude   ➕follow (2)   ignore  

I've been thinking about this off and on lately, and there's been some recent threads related to the topic, so I figure I'll set up a separate thread.

Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.

Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.

For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.

In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.

So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.

Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.

Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".

Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.

« First        Comments 252 - 289 of 289        Search these comments

261   WookieMan   2025 Apr 5, 8:40pm  

The_Deplorable says





You'd have to be making over $1M to pay 1/3 at least federally. Overall with state and other taxes sure you could hit that number but federally you'd need well over $1M to hit 33%.

Also people with that money pay long term capital gains or borrow against their wealth tax free. So it's 0-15% generally. Near retirement age if not working borrow against your money and pay yourself tax free and convert to a roth or stock with no W-2 income after 59-1/2 or earlier if you have cash on hand to live.
262   The_Deplorable   2025 Apr 6, 10:53am  

WookieMan says

"You'd have to be making over $1M to pay 1/3 at least federally."

Ok... make it 1/4. Does it change anything? No! And the end
result is the same. The Globalist Nazis and their network of child rapists are stealing our
taxes from the government and the government goes on printing money out of thin air.
264   Patrick   2025 Apr 9, 11:10pm  

MolotovCocktail says







There should be no income tax or sales tax at all. We could fund everything with tariffs and a land-value tax.
265   clambo   2025 Apr 10, 12:47pm  

Don't forget to tax churches, especially fake ones like Joel Osteen.
266   WookieMan   2025 Apr 10, 2:19pm  

clambo says

Don't forget to tax churches, especially fake ones like Joel Osteen.

Agree, but good luck with separation of church and state. I think all churches should be paying property and income taxes. Unless you're legit poor as a corp or church, you pay taxes.

Hell a church like Joel's on TV gets massive ad revenue. That's Sunday morning TV for a lot of people as far as viewership. None of that is taxed on the corporate end for ads as an expense. Religion is a racket
267   stereotomy   2025 Apr 10, 4:09pm  

WookieMan says

clambo says


Don't forget to tax churches, especially fake ones like Joel Osteen.

Agree, but good luck with separation of church and state. I think all churches should be paying property and income taxes. Unless you're legit poor as a corp or church, you pay taxes.

Hell a church like Joel's on TV gets massive ad revenue. That's Sunday morning TV for a lot of people as far as viewership. None of that is taxed on the corporate end for ads as an expense. Religion is a racket

Now that most churches (Protestant, Muslim, Roman Catholicism) have put both feet into the pool of overthrowing the rule of law, I consider them all fair game. Muslims want to overthrow the government to install the Caliphate, while the Christian churches want globohomo.

Fuck them all. Maybe the Amish or the Mennonites are the only real religions left.

I left out Judaism and Eastern Orthodox because there are massive schisms appearing in both of these faiths, so it's too hard to call - they might pull it out.
268   WookieMan   2025 Apr 11, 5:54am  

stereotomy says

Fuck them all. Maybe the Amish or the Mennonites are the only real religions left.

I'd agree with this. They rely on each other, not the government. It's not a lifestyle I'd live but I respect it more than other religions or beliefs. Any religion that gets tax free gains is a pile of shit in my world. Sorry.
269   clambo   2025 Apr 11, 6:48am  

My grandmother would say when were being rambunctious:
"Quaker meeting has begun, no more laughing, no more fun."

There are still some Quaker dudes out there. The private school popular with presidents' daughters is a Quaker school.
270   GreaterNYCDude   2025 Apr 11, 7:38am  

Last year's breakdown of taxes paid

Federal (Effective Rate): 13.5%
State (Effective Rate): 5.7%
Social Security: 6.2%
Medicare: 1.5%
Property Taxes: 5.6%
= 32.5% off the top

Plus
Sales Tax: 8%

Plus "hidden" taxes, fees surcharges, etc.

> 40% of our house hold income goes back to the government. And > 25% comes off the top as top line payroll deductions. And I'm not pulling in $1M per year. Not even close.
271   Misc   2025 Apr 11, 8:20am  

GreaterNYCDude says

> 40% of our house hold income goes back to the government. And > 25% comes off the top as top line payroll deductions. And I'm not pulling in $1M per year. Not even close.


You've gotta dig deeper. That's only for this years taxes. ---- You still owe major bucks for Reparations.
272   clambo   2025 Apr 11, 8:24am  

This year I paid about 11% Federal Tax.

I paid no state income tax (Florida).

Medicare premiums were 2935 + 154 prescription drug (part D). These are automatically deducted from Social Security.
273   WookieMan   2025 Apr 11, 6:10pm  

GreaterNYCDude says

Federal (Effective Rate): 13.5%

21.6% on my end. State is flat around 4.75% I believe. Registration for cars and trailers is about $600/yr. Max out SS, so whatever that is. IL has big property taxes though and we're low for now and about to go up massively.

I'm easily at around 50% everything included. Though not sales tax. Probably 55%.
274   ForcedTQ   2025 Apr 11, 6:28pm  

clambo says


This year I paid about 11% Federal Tax.

I paid no state income tax (Florida).

Medicare premiums were 2935 + 154 prescription drug (part D). These are automatically deducted from Social Security.

Medicare premiums are $2,935/month? That’s outrageous! Or is that total annual?
275   clambo   2025 Apr 11, 7:10pm  

2935 + 154 was the total for the year 2024; it's from the SSA-1099.

Although the IRS knows what you were paid by Social Security, they still send you a 1099 and you still enter it on your 1040.

My effective tax rate is pretty good, probably because of qualified dividends.
276   Ceffer   2025 Apr 11, 7:43pm  

Didn't get along with the Dominicans in Puerto Rico, or maybe they threatened her with the Inquisition if she didn't toe the line?

282   GreaterNYCDude   2025 May 5, 7:00pm  

That's really the second part of Trump's overall tarrif strategy. Yes they are disruptive. Yes American made goods cost more than third world made crap. And yes it will take time to bring even limited manufacturing back to the US of A. But if we can reduce or even eliminate the income tax people will bring home more which will help offset the recent price increases... But to make this work congress has to get off their buts and start passing (or trying to pass) meaningful legislation.

In a year and a half theres no guarantee that the Republicans pick up seats in the mid terms. Now is the time to get stuff done!
283   WookieMan   2025 May 6, 1:38am  

GreaterNYCDude says

In a year and a half theres no guarantee that the Republicans pick up seats in the mid terms. Now is the time to get stuff done!

Probably for the prediction thread and I don't like making them. They will gain House seats for sure. Senate here in IL will be interesting. Dick Durbin is retiring which is a signal for the party. They need a transition. They could lose a Senate seat here, I wouldn't be shocked.

IL Republican party is a shit show though. We'll see who they go with. I could see some Trump visits to IL. It's a winnable seat. They need to find a black MAGA guy from Decatur or Peoria. These races will be starting soon. With a 6 year term, it's a big deal and IL has elected R's before.
284   HeadSet   2025 May 6, 8:07am  

GreaterNYCDude says

But if we can reduce or even eliminate the income tax people will bring home more which will help offset the recent price increases...

True, but only for those of us who actually pay income taxes.
285   MolotovCocktail   2025 May 6, 8:49am  

AD says


What is your estimate as far as what the optimum median tax rate should be now ?


Whatever revenues vs tax rates show.

This is why European nations have imposed VATs. So they can collect more than what the income tax Laffer Curve will allow.
286   RWSGFY   2025 May 6, 8:51am  

As it stands now no tax cuts are anywhere to be seen. All they plan is to extend the ones that are sunsetting this year. So effectively for now we got tax increase because of tariffs. (Even Donnie has admitted the latter in his "put on a sweater" ...err... "eat cake"... err... "your kids don't need presents" speech, so it's time to switch gears snd stop pretending itʼs not what it is, lol)
287   SunnyvaleCA   2025 May 6, 11:17am  

GreaterNYCDude says


Last year's breakdown of taxes paid
... 40% of our house hold income goes back to the government. And > 25% comes off the top as top line payroll deductions. And I'm not pulling in $1M per year. Not even close.

Yeah. I retired a few years ago, but before that my typical year was along the lines of:
$450k income.
• 25% federal (just shy of AMT, would would be 26% on the entire amount)
• 9% California (already into the 11.3% bracket)
• 6% on other payroll taxes such as obamacare tax, medicare, california stuff
• $17k social security (which I would gladly opt out of, as I'll get back a tiny amount compared to what I pay in)
• an extra $12k property taxes on a 3/2 shack with 6500 feet of dirt
• 9% on sales tax on $50k of spending = $4500

So, 40% for just the parts that are a percentage of my income. Thats $180k. The other parts are $33.5k. That's 47.4% paid in taxes right there, and I'm sure I missed plenty of other small taxes.
288   WookieMan   2025 May 6, 7:40pm  

SunnyvaleCA says


So, 40% for just the parts that are a percentage of my income. Thats $180k. The other parts are $33.5k. That's 47.4% paid in taxes right there, and I'm sure I missed plenty of other small taxes.

Adds up quickly for those that pay. Don't have the percentages. Rounding within reason on these.
• $73k Fed income
• $17k State income
• $500 on car, trailer and golf cart registration (I know, not a big deal)
• $10,453 on SS (do you have a pension? - it maxes out after $168ish I believe)
• $16k on sales taxes. Wife expenses and gets reimbursed. We're over $50k personal spending. But the government gets a shit load from us.
• $6,700 on medicare
• $3,600 on property taxes. About to go to probably $14k once we're assessed on the new house.

Everyone thinks we're fucking rich. Nope. This doesn't include my principle, interest and insurance on the new house at $700k. The bullet points are well above the family median income. And sure we travel more than most, but still, we don't feel wealthy. But we life once. Sometimes it is tight. But we generally have 6-10 months cash on hand if we didn't have jobs. And we have $1.5M we could tap with penalty and taxes. Hard no.

Kids and travel cost a lot, that's our vice. Probably $20-30k a year.

« First        Comments 252 - 289 of 289        Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   users   suggestions   gaiste