10
0

Taxes


 invite response                  
2022 Jul 11, 5:28pm   21,458 views  300 comments

by GreaterNYCDude   ➕follow (2)   ignore (0)  

I've been thinking about this off and on lately, and there's been some recent threads related to the topic, so I figure I'll set up a separate thread.

Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.

Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.

For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.

In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.

So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.

Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.

Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".

Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.

« First        Comments 271 - 300 of 300        Search these comments

271   Misc   2025 Apr 11, 8:20am  

GreaterNYCDude says

> 40% of our house hold income goes back to the government. And > 25% comes off the top as top line payroll deductions. And I'm not pulling in $1M per year. Not even close.


You've gotta dig deeper. That's only for this years taxes. ---- You still owe major bucks for Reparations.
272   clambo   2025 Apr 11, 8:24am  

This year I paid about 11% Federal Tax.

I paid no state income tax (Florida).

Medicare premiums were 2935 + 154 prescription drug (part D). These are automatically deducted from Social Security.
273   WookieMan   2025 Apr 11, 6:10pm  

GreaterNYCDude says

Federal (Effective Rate): 13.5%

21.6% on my end. State is flat around 4.75% I believe. Registration for cars and trailers is about $600/yr. Max out SS, so whatever that is. IL has big property taxes though and we're low for now and about to go up massively.

I'm easily at around 50% everything included. Though not sales tax. Probably 55%.
274   ForcedTQ   2025 Apr 11, 6:28pm  

clambo says


This year I paid about 11% Federal Tax.

I paid no state income tax (Florida).

Medicare premiums were 2935 + 154 prescription drug (part D). These are automatically deducted from Social Security.

Medicare premiums are $2,935/month? That’s outrageous! Or is that total annual?
275   clambo   2025 Apr 11, 7:10pm  

2935 + 154 was the total for the year 2024; it's from the SSA-1099.

Although the IRS knows what you were paid by Social Security, they still send you a 1099 and you still enter it on your 1040.

My effective tax rate is pretty good, probably because of qualified dividends.
276   Ceffer   2025 Apr 11, 7:43pm  

Didn't get along with the Dominicans in Puerto Rico, or maybe they threatened her with the Inquisition if she didn't toe the line?

282   GreaterNYCDude   2025 May 5, 7:00pm  

That's really the second part of Trump's overall tarrif strategy. Yes they are disruptive. Yes American made goods cost more than third world made crap. And yes it will take time to bring even limited manufacturing back to the US of A. But if we can reduce or even eliminate the income tax people will bring home more which will help offset the recent price increases... But to make this work congress has to get off their buts and start passing (or trying to pass) meaningful legislation.

In a year and a half theres no guarantee that the Republicans pick up seats in the mid terms. Now is the time to get stuff done!
283   WookieMan   2025 May 6, 1:38am  

GreaterNYCDude says

In a year and a half theres no guarantee that the Republicans pick up seats in the mid terms. Now is the time to get stuff done!

Probably for the prediction thread and I don't like making them. They will gain House seats for sure. Senate here in IL will be interesting. Dick Durbin is retiring which is a signal for the party. They need a transition. They could lose a Senate seat here, I wouldn't be shocked.

IL Republican party is a shit show though. We'll see who they go with. I could see some Trump visits to IL. It's a winnable seat. They need to find a black MAGA guy from Decatur or Peoria. These races will be starting soon. With a 6 year term, it's a big deal and IL has elected R's before.
284   HeadSet   2025 May 6, 8:07am  

GreaterNYCDude says

But if we can reduce or even eliminate the income tax people will bring home more which will help offset the recent price increases...

True, but only for those of us who actually pay income taxes.
285   MolotovCocktail   2025 May 6, 8:49am  

AD says


What is your estimate as far as what the optimum median tax rate should be now ?


Whatever revenues vs tax rates show.

This is why European nations have imposed VATs. So they can collect more than what the income tax Laffer Curve will allow.
286   RWSGFY   2025 May 6, 8:51am  

As it stands now no tax cuts are anywhere to be seen. All they plan is to extend the ones that are sunsetting this year. So effectively for now we got tax increase because of tariffs. (Even Donnie has admitted the latter in his "put on a sweater" ...err... "eat cake"... err... "your kids don't need presents" speech, so it's time to switch gears snd stop pretending itʼs not what it is, lol)
287   SunnyvaleCA   2025 May 6, 11:17am  

GreaterNYCDude says


Last year's breakdown of taxes paid
... 40% of our house hold income goes back to the government. And > 25% comes off the top as top line payroll deductions. And I'm not pulling in $1M per year. Not even close.

Yeah. I retired a few years ago, but before that my typical year was along the lines of:
$450k income.
• 25% federal (just shy of AMT, would would be 26% on the entire amount)
• 9% California (already into the 11.3% bracket)
• 6% on other payroll taxes such as obamacare tax, medicare, california stuff
• $17k social security (which I would gladly opt out of, as I'll get back a tiny amount compared to what I pay in)
• an extra $12k property taxes on a 3/2 shack with 6500 feet of dirt
• 9% on sales tax on $50k of spending = $4500

So, 40% for just the parts that are a percentage of my income. Thats $180k. The other parts are $33.5k. That's 47.4% paid in taxes right there, and I'm sure I missed plenty of other small taxes.
288   WookieMan   2025 May 6, 7:40pm  

SunnyvaleCA says


So, 40% for just the parts that are a percentage of my income. Thats $180k. The other parts are $33.5k. That's 47.4% paid in taxes right there, and I'm sure I missed plenty of other small taxes.

Adds up quickly for those that pay. Don't have the percentages. Rounding within reason on these.
• $73k Fed income
• $17k State income
• $500 on car, trailer and golf cart registration (I know, not a big deal)
• $10,453 on SS (do you have a pension? - it maxes out after $168ish I believe)
• $16k on sales taxes. Wife expenses and gets reimbursed. We're over $50k personal spending. But the government gets a shit load from us.
• $6,700 on medicare
• $3,600 on property taxes. About to go to probably $14k once we're assessed on the new house.

Everyone thinks we're fucking rich. Nope. This doesn't include my principle, interest and insurance on the new house at $700k. The bullet points are well above the family median income. And sure we travel more than most, but still, we don't feel wealthy. But we life once. Sometimes it is tight. But we generally have 6-10 months cash on hand if we didn't have jobs. And we have $1.5M we could tap with penalty and taxes. Hard no.

Kids and travel cost a lot, that's our vice. Probably $20-30k a year.
291   Misc   2025 May 19, 8:14pm  

It takes 7 years before welfare benefits are taken from illegals.

I say let's reverse that and say they have to be paying taxes for 10 years before they see a dime of welfare.

I know....But....but...but the children.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/thousands-of-immigrants-will-lose-their-ssi-in-may/ar-AA1F5In1
292   clambo   2025 May 20, 7:43am  

My female Mexican friend asked me why I departed California for Florida; I said I didn't want to pay taxes in California to pay for illegal Mexican children's pampers and formula.

At Home Depot I saw those orange buckets for sale, with a diagram on the side of a baby falling into it.

"Look Patty, Mexican baby traps!"

"Why are they Mexican baby traps??????"

"What else do you see around?"
293   zzyzzx   2025 May 20, 9:12am  

RWSGFY says

As it stands now no tax cuts are anywhere to be seen. All they plan is to extend the ones that are sunsetting this year


I will call it a major win if they extend the existing tax cuts and exempt Social Security. It's nonsense to think that taxes can be cut in a meaningful way when a national debt of 36.5T.
294   AD   2025 May 20, 10:39am  

The Left and Chamber of Commerce keep saying we need more workers and that is main reason we import 3rd world families.

So if this is a demographics solution which will benefit the economy in the intermediate and long terms, then they have to figure out how to financially sustain this like raise taxes slightly and make a few fiscal reforms over at least 4 years, and then make adjustments afterward.
297   clambo   2025 Jun 20, 11:21am  

Property taxes pay the rich salaries and pensions of firemen; why do you need them if you have fire insurance?
Property taxes also pay the teachers; do you have children in school?
Property taxes pay for the police; OK, these are useful.
Property taxes pay the wages and rich pensions of county and city workers; boy there are sure a lot of them.
298   Patrick   2025 Jun 22, 8:59pm  

I think land is the only appropriate object of taxation because no one created it, so it does not discourage creation of new land.

The land value tax rate should be set by the market, not the government. Whoever agrees to pay the highest land value tax should get to own the land the next time it is sold. The elderly should be able to defer the land value tax until they die and the land gets sold, then the accumulated tax should be taken from the proceeds.

There should be no tax at all on the house or any improvements. Productive work should never be taxed.

Taxing sales discourages commerce, so that's bad. Taxing income discourages work, so that's also bad.
299   HeadSet   2025 Jun 23, 1:43pm  

Patrick says

Whoever agrees to pay the highest land value tax should get to own the land the next time it is sold.

This sounds like the government owns all land, auctions off leaseholds, then reclaims the land when the leaseholder ends the lease, only to then auction the leasehold again. The country becomes one massive trailer park owned by government.

What happens when I get a leasehold on vacant land and build an expensive building on it? When I decide to sell, will I have an issue where I will get very little for my building because the buyers decide to compete by bidding only on land tax?

« First        Comments 271 - 300 of 300        Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   users   suggestions   gaiste