patrick.net

Patrick says

Malcolm Are you still out there?

I really liked him - he was ApocalypseFuck with a European sense of propriety.

richwicks says

I don't know, isn't the dollar basically gold anyway?

Chiming in with @richwicks.

After Nixon closed the gold convertibility window in the early '70's, the USD went through massive inflation, until the USA made an agreement with Saudi Arabia to buttress the USD by requiring that all transactions for oil MUST be paid for in dollars. Thus, the petrodollar was created. This served the USA just fine until 2008 or so.

The petrodollar system depends on the USA buying Saudi oil and the Saudis in turn buying Us Treasury bonds. THIS is why the USA supports the Saudis unequivocally - the Saudis are the anchor to the petrodollar system.

TL/DR: the dollar is now the petrodollar, and is based on oil, not gold.

Most people's debts are in dollars.

Dollars are therefore valuable. If you don't believe me just send me all of your worthless dollars.

Misc says

It makes sense for foreign central banks to buy gold given the lawlessness of the US. However, for US citizens it makes no sense as the government can and probably will outlaw ownership of gold and silver. The IRS will simply put out bounties for those who report the holders (felons).

The state has already won, so inject the micro-chips, sell your car, and eat ze bugs right?

The same logic could be used to give up on home gardens, guns, and wells.

ad says

It is a very speculative asset

Because anyone can print it out of thin air? Because it rises and falls thousands of dollars in a single day? I mean if you don't want speculation, forget Federal Reserve debt notes, and all assets who's value is tied to same. So stocks, bonds, housing. And you definitely don't go anywhere near digital coins.

It's like you guys have never read a single iota of market history before central banks...

Misc says

FDR stole peoples' gold back in the 30s. Nothing ever came of it.

Private ownership of gold was illegal until 1974 when Ford reinstated the "right" for private citizens to own it legally.

Nope, complete fabrication. People traded their gold in, but there was no confiscation from private citizens. Junk silver is literally silver dimes, nickels, and quarters issued until the 1950's. Tell me how you would confiscate my gold when you don't know who I am, or if I have any? Door-to-door, every house in America?

stereotomy says

This is off-topic. I'm talking about GOLD.

Silver is what's important, and what leads all trends in metals. That's why they went after silver first in the late 1800's.

stereotomy says

After Nixon closed the gold convertibility window in the early '70's

This was only between central banks. Federal Reserve debt notes stopped being redeemable in gold for the average citizen long before the 70's.

NuttBoxer says

Nope, complete fabrication. People traded their gold in, but there was no confiscation from private citizens.

Not exactly. Banks were not allowed to open safe deposit boxes without a revenue agent present to "exchange" their gold for greenbacks.

U.S. citizens were given until May 1 of 1933 to turn in their gold. In exchange, they would be compensated $20.67 per ounce. The penalties for refusing to turn in gold were set by an amendment of the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 and were set as a fine of up to $10,000 and/or a prison sentence of up to ten years.

https://www.usgoldbureau.com/news/what-was-1933-gold-confiscation

Onvacation says

U.S. citizens were given until May 1 of 1933 to turn in their gold. In exchange, they would be compensated $20.67 per ounce. The penalties for refusing to turn in gold were set by an amendment of the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 and were set as a fine of up to $10,000 and/or a prison sentence of up to ten years.

While this is correct, a key element is missing. Owners of gold were compelled to take their coins, bullion or gold certificates to a bank, where they were exchanged for $20.67 per ounce. Within a year, the official 'gold price' was set by FDR's government at $35 per ounce. Simple math; let's say that you owned 10,000 ounces of gold and exchanged that for the government's set price of $20.67. You would have been paid just shy of $207K in PAPER currency. Once the price of gold was set at $35, you WOULD have owned $350K in paper currency. In effect, the money that you were paid took a $143K hit in just one year, and FDR's action also diminished the actual value of the dollar by 40%.

And Democrats (and Republicans) have been devaluing our money ever since.

Onvacation says

Not exactly. Banks were not allowed to open safe deposit boxes without a revenue agent present to "exchange" their gold for greenbacks.

There's a lot of myth around this, and I think it's quite intentional. The same way central banks have pushed the phrase Death and taxes. If you're gold is in a big bank deposit box, you don't understand the purpose of gold. If it's not, how you gonna confiscate it?

https://www.cpmgroup.com/gbi-reports/gold-confiscation-truths-2022-10-14/

I stand corrected. The safety deposit box story is a myth.

But the executive order did extort everyone's accumulated gold under threat of fine and or imprisonment if they did not give it up. Good citizens complied while criminals kept their coins. My grandfather was pissed off at FDR for the rest of his life for this and other reasons.

FDR's Executive Order 6102 to stop the "hoarding" of gold:

Section 1. For the purposes of this regulation, the term "hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them...
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Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.

Don't think they can't criminalize ownership of anything they want under "emergency powers".

Onvacation says

Don't think they can't criminalize ownership of anything they want under "emergency powers".

Oh they can, be we don't have the same population today as we did in the 1930's.

People who have gold and silver today have it, explicitly because they don't trust the government, and recognize it as being run by the corrupt and criminal.

They're not going to comply. I would seriously go to the Mariana trench and drop some unmarked, and heavy, boxes into the ocean before I'd send them off to this government.

Fact remains, people voluntarily turned their gold in. No one went door-to-door, no one pointed a gun at them.

If they outlaw guns, will you turn yours in? Point being government can't take what you don't give them, and don't tell them you have. So STFU and keep buying!

I guess the failures of SVB and their partners in grift (all told almost a trillion in the last several days) has caused gold to get a little feisty - just in time for the leprechauns on St. Patrick's Day:

"Premiums on silver are insane. Friday last US 90% coin at wholesale cost $3.05/oz over spot, today you can’t buy any at $6 over. Silver rounds climbed 40¢ today alone, and are disappearing. This is a buying panic worse than I’ve ever seen."

- Franklin Sanders, physical silver/gold dealer for over 40 years.

Onvacation says

Don't think they can't criminalize ownership of anything they want under "emergency powers".

100% correct. Under the guise of "national security" with the nation's survival at risk, the government has "emergency powers" to confiscate your home, your bank account and all assets.

IMO, this has a high probability of actually happening. It's what the Globalist elites have planned with their Great Reset, whereby you will own nothing and be happy.

NuttBoxer says

Fact remains, people voluntarily turned their gold in. No one went door-to-door, no one pointed a gun at them.

If they outlaw guns, will you turn yours in? Point being government can't take what you don't give them, and don't tell them you have. So STFU and keep buying!

I keep buying guns…does that count?

RayAmerica says

IMO, this has a high probability of actually happening. It's what the Globalist elites have planned with their Great Reset, whereby you will own nothing and be happy.

Yeah, but will be through a system that drains it without anyone knocking on your door. Currency change-over at pennies on the dollar, less chance of armed resistance.

Premium for Silver Eagles is almost 50% over spot. Pretty crazy. Bars are a bit more sane (if you can find them...)

Gold is killing it.

Has doubled since 1/1/23

Long live Malcom AKA "MEGA."

How do you think 'Gold' will react to this?

Distressed Debt Soars By 29%, Or $66 Billion, In One Week Amid Surge In Bankruptcies
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/distressed-debt-soars-29-or-66-billion-one-week-amid-surge-bankruptcies
The cascade of defaulted regional US banks is blowing out the circulating inventory of distressed debt which expanded by about $65.9 billion last week as US insolvency courts saw six new, large bankruptcy filings, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The heap of dollar-denominated corporate bonds and loans in the Americas trading at distressed levels rose to $295.4 billion in the week ended Friday, a 28.7% increase from $229.5 billion a week earlier, Bloomberg-compiled data show.

Last week’s bankruptcy filings include the Chapter 11 petitions of sports broadcaster Diamond Sports Group as well as SVB Financial Group, the former parent company of Silicon Valley Bank.

In total, there were 48 large bankruptcy filings - those related to at least $50 million of liabilities - this year through March 20. That’s the highest since 2009, which saw 88 large cases through March 20, per Bloomberg-compiled data.

Gold is the ultimate insurance against the failure of the Bretton Woods/Petrodollar monetary system. Biden has, to my personal benefit, greatly increased the price of gold. As in past history, the breakdown of civilization is accompanied by an increased demand for specie, as opposed to fiat currency, because the fiat paper is backed by governments that are not long for this world.

Gold hovering above $2000. I guess all that talk about decoupling from the dollar among the BRICKs is filtering thought to the financial markets.

IDGAF - I'm going back to playing keyboards for a band that plays primarily angry women tunes and torch (alpha widow) songs. I think I'll have a blast watching the Red Pill in action among the crowd.

stereotomy says

. Biden has, to my personal benefit, greatly increased the price of gold.

Yeah, look also at the run up of silver during Obama's first term.

But the gold bugs who are buying at $2000 may be set up for a crash like the silver bugs did after 2011.

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ad says

stereotomy says

. Biden has, to my personal benefit, greatly increased the price of gold.

Yeah, look also at the run up of silver during Obama's first term.

But the gold bugs who are buying at $2000 may be set up for a crash like the silver bugs did after 2011.

,

Gold is NOT and investment. It is an insurance policy against the failure of Bretten Woods -> Petrodolar system. How many Patnetters have fire insurance, or flood insurance? That's all it is. It earns no interest, and there are continuing storage costs. We have been reminded again and again about the consequences of not being prepared for the next fiat currency collapse.

I was lucky enough (Thanks iTulip - RIP) to time the $50 silver trade. I fucked up and bought additional gold instead of stocks in 2011. I could be retired like @Patrick if I had timed the investments better. Woe is me.

EBGuy says

Premium for Silver Eagles is almost 50% over spot.

yes, silver eagles are a safe play as well as silver ETF (ticker SLV) ... i had started a thread on patrick.net about how a silver quarter being equivalent to the price of a gallon of gasoline for the last +50 years ...
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stereotomy says

Gold is NOT and investment. It is an insurance policy against the failure of Bretten Woods -> Petrodolar system.

I agree with you @stereotomy

Gold and silver are great for maintaining value more or less over very long time periods. I still have some silver dollars my grandfather gave me, and they are still worth about the same.

My dream is for silver coins to return, but without the bogus "dollar" deception printed on them. They are just silver by weight. Let's call a pound of silver a pound once again.

Patrick says

maintaining value

yep, it stores values

1 silver quarter (25 cents piece) should continue to buy 1 gallon of gasoline or whatever its equivalent replacement would be

1 ounce gold piece can buy a 3 to 4 very stylish and high quality 3 - piece suits, and it should also do the same in the future

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Interesting site:

U.S. SILVER COIN MELT VALUES
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/coin-melt-values.aspx

One that surprised me was the Kennedy Half Dollar (1965-1970) coins which consist of 60% copper, 40% silver. Current melt value is $3.84.

Also, Eisenhower Dollar (1971-1976), same 60/40 ratio is now worth $8.21 melt value.

stereotomy says

Gold is NOT and investment. It is an insurance policy against the failure of Bretten Woods -> Petrodolar system. How many Patnetters have fire insurance, or flood insurance? That's all it is. It earns no interest, and there are continuing storage costs. We have been reminded again and again about the consequences of not being prepared for the next fiat currency collapse.

This is partially correct. Specie cannot be inflated, and thus it's greatest value is a hedge against inflation(theft). It has use in free economies, but as I've mentioned many times, Griffin tells us bad money drives out good, so it's not widely used. It is a long term investment. It can increase through swaps, but you hold, don't sell unless you really need to use it.

We all know the system is rigged(see Gamestonk). And we all know you can't predict a top. And if you've paid attention to real money, you also know it can be harder to get now days, and value has not been at spot for years(decoupled from fake paper market). If you stay un-diversified, you will lose everything at some point, and you won't be able to find any specie you can buy at any reasonable price, and take immediate ownership of.

This is the scenario, protect your wealth, or lose it all. You can also invest in your own business, land, crops, livestock, and guns and ammo. Will need the last regardless to protect what you have, but at least no one will instantly drain with the flick of a switch. You will have a chance to keep it. And in that case, gold silver is most transportable form of wealth.

I've never paid storage fees in my life, nor would I trust anyone else to protect my asset and not steal it when shit hits the fan.

ad says

yes, silver eagles are a safe play as well as silver ETF (ticker SLV)

Keeping in mind the comment above, ETF's are paper, so will lose all value with everything else that isn't real. Eagles command a high premium, and premiums always disappear over time. Rounds are a better bet, or WHATEVER you can get the most most ounces for.

ad says

Patrick says

maintaining value

yep, it stores values

1 silver quarter (25 cents piece) should continue to buy 1 gallon of gasoline or whatever its equivalent replacement would be

1 ounce gold piece can buy a 3 to 4 very stylish and high quality 3 - piece suits, and it should also do the same in the future

.

This is more relevant when you also state the inverse. Fiat paper always loses value over time.

"IF GOLD IS GOOD FOR CENTRAL BANKS, WHY NOT FOR US, TOO? “A [recent] annual poll of 83 central banks with a combined $7 trillion in foreign exchange assets, found that more than two-thirds of respondents thought their peers would increase their gold holdings in 2023.”

In fact, since 2015 they’ve bought three times as much gold as treasury securities, and in 2022 central banks bought more gold than any other year since data began in 1950. "Gold is now up 20% in six months and the heavy buyers are central banks, who are sharply reducing dollar holdings in favor of a safe alternative. Presently they account for 33% of monthly gold demand.” See Financial Times article"

https://www.ft.com/content/e9c78b99-8a29-47e2-b5bf-9f7542608cf6

"LOCAL MONETARY NETWORKS. When folks ask me about the dollar crashing or how will you use silver and gold as money after CBDC is installed, I am always a bit frustrated. For me, of course, dealing with metals all these years it’s no problem but not so for most folks. This morning my son Justin gave me the answer: create local monetary networks that use gold and silver right now. Create social media groups whose members offer their goods and services for payment in silver or gold. Accustom yourselves and others to using gold and silver. Stop waiting for somebody on a white horse to save you and begin to save yourselves, and others.

Here’s a way to get started: familiarize your self with the website Catherine Austin Fitts and I put up, https://silverandgoldaremoney.com./ You can punch in any paper money amount and it will tell you ho you can pay it in silver or gold. It even has a way you can enter the premium on the item.

Wait! How do you know what the premium is? Simple, the prices I send y’all daily are wholesale prices and if you’ll look at the price table you’ll find the premium on the far right hand side in both percentage and dollar terms. Use the percentage in the silver and gold calculator.

Finally, remember that a price is what a willing buyer and willing seller agree on. If you agree one it, it’s the “right” price.

Also, your state doesn’t need any special law for you to use gold and silver as money. That’s a private contract between buyer and seller, and you can use any money the two of you agree on. You are free to choose!! “Legal tender” only apple when no particular money is specified."

- Franklin Sanders

Silver has been dead for a long time.

ad says

silver eagles are a safe play as well as silver ETF (ticker SLV)

SLV and GLD are fine investments for your non-taxable IRA account, but do yourself a favor and don't hold them in a taxable account. Those funds sell a tiny bit of their metal holdings each month to fund their daily activities. As an owner of the instrument, you need to make a complicated entry on your taxes for each month or part of a month that you own them. For those who have already made this mistake, here's a website that can help you: https://www.costbasistools.com/silver/SLV.php