patrick.net

Any opines about the US CBDC that's going live next July? I think it's Orwellian.

I really like this idea of gold/silver backed crypto - https://kinesis.money/

Works as a Mastercard...

Still has counterparty risk though, you have to trust that its actually backed and that nobody is going to skip town

richwicks says

GNL says

Imagine all the things that are unsustainable without fiat...good and bad. Endless wars, welfare, open borders etc.

List something that is good with endless fiat. You haven't yet.

There's nothing good about fiat. It's main purpose is to give the government a total monopoly on power.

I think it could be backed by labor if done differently.

This...
1. Money comes into existence through lending.
2. Interest rates set by the free market.
3. Interest is paid to the government in lieu of taxes.
4. No other taxes.
5. No too big to fail and no bailouts.
6. State and federal required balanced budgets.

just_passing_through says

Any opines about the US CBDC that's going live next July? I think it's Orwellian.

See exec order: 140672

That's supposedly to investigate it. However by July of next year the Fed will already have all of the infrastructure in place for Fed Coin. And activated. Initially it will be only bank to bank. It's called "FedNow". Don't believe the BS articles stating it's not CBDC, it is. Just a flip of the switch to roll it out to the public.

Pointing at the GIANT elephant in this room.

cisTits says

GNL says

1. Money comes into existence through lending.

No. CREDIT comes into existence through lending. Money and Credit are completely different things.

When a lender creates credit for a loan, it still has to cough up actual money, usually.

And that it can only get from a) reserves or b) borrowing it from another lender. If that lender is the Fed, then The Fed creates the money on the spot to do so.

But banks/lenders DO NOT create money.

The belief otherwise is right up on the the top most 100% bullshit 'facts' that damage what people think 'how things work'. Right up there with 'the US is a democracy'.

I'm listening to you but, as I see it, no borrowing = no $$. Regardless of the actual process. No?

Patrick says

Looks dangerously woke though.

It's not.

AlignPay is a new payment processing solution that’s built for freedom and driven by the time-tested American conviction that everyone – no matter their race, religion, gender, or ideology – has the right to pursue happiness and live the American dream.

While some in society seek to undermine these foundational American values by canceling those who dare to disagree with them, we believe in American ingenuity, opportunity, and that our best days are still to come.

That’s why we created AlignPay. Our mission is to support freedom with tools designed to empower economic prosperity, not stifle it.

https://alignpay.com/mission.html

Patrick says

What we need to solve is the ability for people to easily send gold and silver to each other without waiting for days and paying hefty postage fees.

An honest bank could easily provide this. As history has shown, if they prove reliable at appraising coins, and always having full account balance on hand, most people would never convert the paper slips, or digital balance into physical.

Misc says

While it is possible to imagine a world where an airline purchases a Boeing 737 with gold, the practicality of arranging security for the transaction would be ruinous for the buyer and seller, but the transport companies would make out quite well.

What about purchase of a ship? Or building a factory? Buying land? All of those have been done in real money for centuries without issue.

Misc says

If you end up trusting the bank, it doesn't matter whether it is gold or fiat. The end results are the same. We've tried the gold standard numerous times in the US and it always ended badly.

You really need to learn more about the pre-central banking system to understand why the difference in fiat and real money means everything. In the simplest terms, it's honesty vs corruption.

We've tried the fiat in the US, and it's always gone badly. First time was during the revolution, and we only recovered by trading tobacco until real money returned. It left such a bad taste, they couldn't even breathe the words "central bank" for nearly 50 years. The single greatest time of prosperity in this nation's history was at the beginning of the 19th century, under a real money system. We have never rivaled that success since.

Under fiat/central banks we have experienced the worst inflation and contraction in our nation's history. Present day is a GREAT example.

Blue says

I do not think its safe these days particularly for large amounts. Guy could tip off before or after the delivery to make you robbery target at best.

Most transactions would be in silver. Gold is too valuable. this has always been the case historically. Under an honest system, prices would quickly return to nearly what they've always been. Real inflation in an honest system moves at a snail's pace. Monopolies would cease to exist, large corporations would disappear, de-centralization would return with a vengeance.

Most of the problems you guys see are because you try to force real money into a dishonest system. In reality, these two cannot co-exist.

Misc says

Why not some crypto???

You want to create a system based on hyperbolic valuations? All real wealth comes from the earth.

I can't begin to respond to the rest. The central bankers main goal is to lie, and they are very good at lying. Your views are proof. Please balance them so you can understand a system that does not seek your enslavement.

GNL says

1. Money comes into existence through lending.

With point one you have already enslaved us. Even the Bible states that if you borrow money, the lender becomes your master. Wealth should be earned, not printed from nothing.

cisTits says

But banks/lenders DO NOT create money.

Actually not true in the current system. Banks used to be allowed to lend out something like $100 for every dollar they actually have. A few years ago they basically lowered the reserve to zero. Oh yeah, and even when there was a reserve, that hundred they loaned out was considered an asset, so now they could loan $100 for every one of those dollars. The system is leveraged to the gills!

NuttBoxer says

An honest bank could easily provide this. As history has shown, if they prove reliable at appraising coins, and always having full account balance on hand

People would have to pay for the bank to store the coins though.

The alternative is to get "free" banking by letting the bank lend out the coins for interest, and risk not getting paid back.

AmericanKulak says

Patrick says

Looks dangerously woke though.

It's not.

Align is a company that provides reviews on business's based on their love for America, and lack of wokeness. I assume Alignpay is part of that same company?

Patrick says

People would have to pay for the bank to store the coins though.

I believe the bank of Venice(?) never made loans, and their profits came from notary, and other services they offered.

AmericanKulak says

Patrick says

Looks dangerously woke though.

It's not.

I'm saying that the black woman is pretty much the universal virtue-signal of wokeness. Maybe this place just has tone-deaf advertising.

We should just start our own country and call it "patrick.net-stan". We could buy an island or some offshore oil rigs...we will be fine. We should probably grow some crops in greenhouses on them. Then we will issue our own currency....which will be great!

1337irr says

We should just start our own country and call it "patrick.net-stan". We could buy an island or some offshore oil rigs...we will be fine. We should probably grow some crops in greenhouses on them. Then we will issue our own currency....which will be great!

... and immediately apply for foreign aid from the US.

Patrick says

The transaction could be done as promises to deliver gold or silver. Those promises can then be re-spent.

I believe that was the premise of the US "Silver Certificates" which stood in place of all the silver coins sitting in bags in vaults. Gold coins circulated until Roosevelt collected all of them for safe keeping in Fort Knox.


5 silver dollars would have $100 to $150 silver value, depending on who you sold it to.

GNL says

Money comes into existence through lending.

Fiat money. Real money comes into existence through labor.

It takes a lot of labor to mine and refine metals that become money. It takes a lot of labor to create materials to build things people want. The value of a gold coin, or a colored shell, is the labor it took to find it and make it presentable to the market.

Money has intrinsic value. Colored shells can make jewelry and gold can be used for high tech circuits. Fiat and crypto currency have no intrinsic value. I still hold that real money has value based on labor where as fiat money is based on the evil promises of a corrupt government.

Onvacation says

5 silver dollars would have $100 to $150 silver value, depending on who you sold it to.

There's .71 ounces of silver in every $1.00 of silver coins, so it works out to be about 3.5 ounces and that's around $70 bucks - maybe $85 as of today.

cisTits says

And what happens when mining is fully roboticized?

Still takes energy to run the equipment.

Really, money is energy, ultimately. If energy was free and unlimited, this entire would would be packed with people, and we would destroy nature. With unlimited energy, you can build anything, and anywhere.

cisTits says

Cowry shells were used as money. So have been beads. Ledger entries of wheat stored in the silos of Ancient Egypt was used as money.

Gold and silver are the only form of money that has held up throughout the centuries. Yes, you can use anything if you get people to buy into your system, or force them to, as is necessary with fiat. Gold and silver grow at a specific rate, and cannot be created by man, which prevents inflation. Intrinsic means every culture throughout history recognizes they have value. They can be VERY specifically measured, are small enough to easily store, and are very divisible. It is God's money, he made it for this purpose.

cisTits says

And what happens when mining is fully roboticized?

There have been improvements in mining already, but if you read my post on technology, you'll know ever new invention comes with a cost. Better machinery costs more money, offsetting the mining improvement by creating a higher barrier to entry.

cisTits says

We finally mine one of those NEOs, there will be millions of tons of gold, platinum and silver flooding our markets.

Then you should easily be able to buy gold and silver coins, and get delivery for far below current spot right? Let me know when that happens, I WON'T be holding my breath.

Any alternative you come up with will only work on a small scale, one that the government doesn't deem worthy of dealing with. I've always been fine with living small and under the radar like this, but anything that gains any real traction with the public and threatens their system will result in them coming for it, by force if necessary. A major source of their power is derived from this and they will never let it go without a fight.

You can be as clever as they come, but these are social problems that do not have technological solutions on a large scale. If you have honest, decent, hardworking people with integrity, you will have an honest, decent system even without technological or constitutional frameworks. We don't have that, as the last 2 years have shown us.

It's like coming up with a cunning plan to outsmart the casino at their own game, only to find that when bested, rather than give in and hand you your winnings, they have goons drag you out back and and go to work on your hands with a couple of ball peen hammers.

Understand that these people do not play fair.

NuttBoxer says

Then you should easily be able to buy gold and silver coins, and get delivery for far below current spot right?

I'm still somewhat shocked at the spread. There's an outfit in Marin that seems pretty large, and, last I checked, the premium for gold was 10% over spot and silver was an outrageous 20% over spot. And most of the well known branded bars/coins were out of stock.

Ceffer says

Barter and underground economies based on gold backed rubles, like the Russians used to do with dollars and parallel economies during the hard core Kommie times..

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richwicks says

There's .71 ounces of silver in every $1.00 of silver coins, so it works out to be about 3.5 ounces and that's around $70 bucks - maybe $85 as of today.

You're right. Coin or silver shop would try to pay you somewhere around spot price.

But you would have a hard time buying 5 silver dollars for less than $100. Five silver eagles would set you back $150+.

Can you say, "FedNow"? Repeat after me kiddos!

Karloff says

It's like coming up with a cunning plan to outsmart the casino at their own game

That's why you leave the casino and start your own game. One outside their control, using the systems God setup that can never be wholly suppressed or eliminated. And yes, it probably does mean a fight, but when the alternative is slavery, is there another fucking option?

Patrick should start running an Ethereum validator. I'd stake him an ETH coin (once I figure out how to buy one)....