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I Have Some Bad News About the Economy


               
2022 Oct 15, 5:36am   32,836 views  501 comments

by Patrick   follow (60)  

https://www.hennessysview.com/p/i-have-some-bad-news-about-the-economy?publication_id=572577&post_id=78488561&isFreemail=true


Accounts are widely out of balance

How bad, you might be asking yourself, will the economy get? We’re about to find out.




The orange line is US wealth. The blue line is US GDP. The gap is the amount of wealth American households and non-profits must surrender. You see, these two lines must move in lockstep. They do over time. When they get out of sync, something will put them back into sync.

The gap is debt.

Accounts must be settled. It’s called “a reckoning.” And the reckoning is here knocking on the door.

To put this gap into historical perspective, here’s an extended view of the same data with Dr. Hunt’s markups.




From 1951 to about 1997—the year the Monica Lewinsky story broke and Howe and Strauss published The Fourth Turning—the two lines moved in lockstep. Then Alan Greenspan decided to tinker, to grow wealth without growing GDP and without kicking off inflation. ...

What that gap represents is one of two things:

Money stolen from other people (other economies).

Money stolen from future generations of Americans.

How We Borrow from the Future
A few years ago, in the 1990s, we heard a lot of stories parents going to jail for identify theft perpetrated against their own children. About 1990, the government required babies to have a Social Security Number before they left the hospital. (I remember because it happened between our second and third children.)

Some shiftless parents soon realized they could apply for credit using their kids’ SSNs. They could default, and the creditor could do nothing. You can’t collect from a six-week-old infant.

This, of course, constituted credit fraud, so the parents who did this (and there were many) went to jail. (Not sure what happened to their kids who were left with no parents and lousy FICO score, but that’s not the point.)

The point is, all of us have been doing what those parents do only legally. The government allows us to run up our kids’ and grand kids’ debt as long as we do it with the government’s approved identity-theft programs.

So we did.

If you look at that chart, about 1/3 of our household and non-profit wealth is stolen from other generations or other countries. And we have to pay it back. Now. Or soon. ...

How We Borrow from the World
Some months ago, I wrote a series of posts about the US dollar (USD) as the world’s reserve currency and the petrodollar. (Here and here.) To summarize, almost all international debt is settled with USD regardless of the two local currencies involved. Britain settles its debts with Costa Rica in USD, etc. This includes the oil markets. Saudi Arabia, in turn, buys US treasuries (national debt) as a store of value for its copious oil profits. This allows the US run up massive debt knowing there’s always a market for our bonds.

Until there’s not.

Have you notice that Saudi Arbia is drifting out of the US orbit?

I wrote it about in those earlier posts, but the most certain sign of the Kingdom’s pending divorce with from Uncle Sam happened this week. Saudi Arabia disclosed that Joe Biden tried to strong-arm the Saudis into delaying OPEC+ oil production cuts until after the November elections. In diplomatic worlds, this was a slap in the face insult to the US and, particularly, to the Biden regime.

Rumors say Biden threatened to cut military sales to the Saudis if the OPEC+ cuts were announced before the elections. Not only did OPEC+ announce the cuts on its timetable, the Kingdom told the world about Biden’s threat (without disclosing the exact terms or names). Among “partners,” such public humiliation is a sign of pending breakup.

In return, the State Department and Joe Biden announced they would reevaluate the US’s strategic arrangements with Saudi Arabia after the election. That should be interesting.

What it means is that the US might not have as eager a buyer for debt as we’ve grown accustomed to. And that means the price of US treasuries will decline. Less demand means lower prices. When the price of bond goes down, the interest goes up. ...

I’m not saying the Saudis are about to stop taking our checks—I’m saying the for the first time since the Nixon administration, they’re acting like they might. Which means the are going to demand a bigger discount—the difference between the face value of the bond and sale price. That discount is the interest, and the bigger the discount, the less cash we have to spend tomorrow.

That’s one way to close that gap. You reduce the amount of cash you get in return for a future promise to pay. The amount you owe stays the same, but the amount you get now gets smaller.

How Our Kids Get Their Money Back
Remember the two ways we built that gap between wealth and GDP? That’s the first way. The holder of US treasuries want to cash their bonds, and they don’t want to buy new ones.

The gap begins to shrink, and that shrinking is mostly in household wealth.

The second way is intergenerational theft. So how do our kids and grandkids force their accounts settled?

Have you heard about the labor participation rate? Have you heard about the labor shortage?

An odd thing about the jobs numbers in recent months. While the number of “new jobs,” also known as “new hires,” has been strong, the number of people working has been going down, down, down. Why is that? ...

The kids aren’t taking our post-dated checks, either. They’re simply not participating in the US economy—at least, not in the official US economy. They siphoning of that excess household wealth NOW, in the present. They are not working in ways that grows the blue line (GDP). They’re shrinking the gap by lowering the orange line (wealth).

Wonder where inflation is coming from? We’re spending the excess household wealth without increasing the products and services available to buy with it. Inflation is how future generations close that gap. They spend your excess wealth without producing. And it’s happening right before our eyes. ...

In truth, we will only lose our ill-gotten gains.

While, we didn’t personally rob from the kids and foreigners, we were participants in a rigged game—a game that’s getting unrigged in a hurry. We enjoyed the spoils of the petrodollar and zero interest rates.

This account-settling process is called a reckoning, which sound harsh because it is.

https://www.epsilontheory.com/hollow-men-hollow-markets-hollow-world-2/

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449   AD   2025 Jul 6, 11:26am  

Americans live in separate economic realities: Those with a job are likely to stay employed, but those without one are likely to stay unemployed.

https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-education-health-care

Why it matters: Welcome to the low-hire, low-fire labor market. Private-sector layoffs are at historic lows, but that masks a dreadful outlook for unemployed workers or those unhappy with their current positions.

Driving the news: The labor market surprised in June with a better-than-expected payroll gain of 147,000, the government said on Thursday.

But a whopping 85% of those job gains came in just two sectors, according to calculations by Mike Konczal, a former Biden economic official: education and health care.
Hiring in other sectors — including professional and business services, a catch-all category for white collar jobs — was little changed, the government said.
The big picture: That continues the "frozen job market" trend that has plagued the economy in recent years. The trend is being exacerbated by the rise of AI, as employers experiment with how to make their workforces more productive.

Separate data released this week showed the number of layoffs fell by 188,000 in May, hovering above multi-decade lows.
But the number of people hired into new jobs also fell by 112,000, to a rate significantly below its pre-pandemic levels.
The number of workers continuing to collect unemployment benefits is at the highest level since 2021, a sign that it is taking jobless workers longer to find a job.
What they're saying: "We're in a complex jobs market —it's not falling apart but the lack of dynamism, the lack of churn and the lack of hiring has been punctuated in the first half of the year," says ADP chief economist Nela Richardson.

"Many employers are loath to lay off workers until they see the whites of the eyes of a recession, having had such problems finding suitable workers in the first place," David Kelly, chief global strategist at J.P. Morgan Asset Management, wrote in a recent note.
The bottom line: If you look only at how many Americans are losing their jobs, this appears to be a pretty terrific labor market. If you look only at how many are being hired for new jobs, it is the weakest in years.

The question ahead is how it gets unstuck — with a pick-up in hiring, or a pick-up in layoffs.
Go deeper: It's still a no-hire/no-fire job market
450   AD   2025 Jul 6, 11:27am  

AD says


But a whopping 85% of those job gains came in just two sectors, according to calculations by Mike Konczal, a former Biden economic official: education and health care.


This is vastly funded by government money. So essentially it is "guvmint jobs".

And some wonder why here are news stories about billionaire dollar medical fraud such as with Medicaid or why Birdbrain Joe (Biden) was so generous to the education sector such as with at least $170 billion going to student loan forgiveness :-/

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451   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2025 Jul 6, 11:50am  

HeadSet says

mell says


They are actively lowering it from what I have seen, which is what makes the prices stagnate. They come on the market with an expectation by the seller of 5% compounding interest p.a. since they bought it, and when nobody bites they start lowering them, and then they sell anywhere between 5%-20% of the original ask. But they all sell within 1-6 months except for very few.

That is the same situation as around here (coastal Virginia). I am also seeing a few bank foreclosures on upscale homes like this:



Do not let that $400k "asking price" fool you. That is a beachfront home that will fetch at least $1 million even in a foreclosure sale.

About this home
2525 Manion Dr is a 4,324 square foot house on a 0.89 acre lot with 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. - it last sold on June 14, 2002 for $759,000. Based on Redfin's Williamsburg data, we estimate the home's value is $1,329,036.
452   AD   2025 Jul 6, 1:56pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

About this home
2525 Manion Dr is a 4,324 square foot house on a 0.89 acre lot with 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. - it last sold on June 14, 2002 for $759,000. Based on Redfin's Williamsburg data, we estimate the home's value is $1,329,036.


only about 2.3% annual appreciation from 2002 to 2025 :-/

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453   PeopleUnited   2025 Jul 6, 8:31pm  

mell says

price declines.

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Doubtful. But I do agree all real estate is local, so maybe coastal enclaves where prices rose higher than incomes allow, of course there will be corrections. But in many places there will be no correction, as there was no bubble. Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots.

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.

The only way we see housing become more affordable in the next 5 years is if people start losing jobs en masse. Of course if that happens we will see plenty of supply and cratering demand (except by investors not SFH owners).
454   AD   2025 Jul 6, 9:32pm  

PeopleUnited says

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.


Assumptions: peak price was around Feb 2022 with a 3% mortgage rate, household income increased about 20% since then , current mortgage rate is 7%
Rule: for every 1% increase in the 30 yr mortgage rate there should be a 10% drop in price

so home prices need to be around 72% of Feb 2022 price levels to return to January 2020 home affordability levels

((7 - 3) x 100%) x (1+20%) = 72%

There just may not be enough home owners willing to sell at that deep of a discount and the potential home sellers will "wait it out" while household income increases by about 2.5% a year.

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455   mell   2025 Jul 6, 9:56pm  

PeopleUnited says

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Most are still getting way more than they paid for them, if they bought early enough. Some of those who bought in the past 5 years though may sell for a small loss. And flipping is pretty much dead here. Still I expect a very slow rise p.a. on average over the next 5 years, possibly accelerating should Trump's golden age kick in
456   WookieMan   2025 Jul 7, 4:18am  

mell says

Some of those who bought in the past 5 years though may sell for a small loss.

A paper loss, but likely still tax free equity they can walk with with a primary home. As in not upside down loan wise, but still paid down some principle.

I also think a lot of the larger losses will be corporate owned homes for upper management/sales. Work from home has changed the game. Owning the homes of employees is a write off on net revenue. Big companies really don't care if it helps retain top employees and also put them in a region where they excel.

A former buddy got moved out to Ohio about 3 years ago. Toyota lost on that house because they bought the most expensive house in town for the employee during the housing boom. It was likely paid for with cash so it's just moving numbers around on paper to them. They probably win some and lose some with their employees, so the housing market isn't just John Doe losing his house because he lost his job. There's a lot of factors into lower sales prices, especially in urban areas.
457   GNL   2025 Jul 7, 10:46am  

PeopleUnited says

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Doubtful. But I do agree all real estate is local, so maybe coastal enclaves where prices rose higher than incomes allow, of course there will be corrections. But in many places there will be no correction, as there was no bubble. Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots.

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.

The only way we see housing become more affordable in the next 5 years is if people start losing jobs en masse. Of course if that happens we will see plenty of supply and cratering demand (except by investors not SFH owners).

I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.
458   Eric Holder   2025 Jul 7, 11:12am  

GNL says


I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.


Disparity is a false metric. The "have nots" are living the best quality life ever. As for how much the "haves" have: you can eat, drink and fuck only so much until you reach your physical limitations, so the difference between having $100M and $100B are basically moot.
459   WookieMan   2025 Jul 7, 12:33pm  

Just for reference in my area. I'm not talking bull shit on this thread or the housing thread. It's basically the entire region in which I live. https://www.timeout.com/chicago/news/chicago-area-home-prices-are-rising-four-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-the-u-s-062725

Neighboring states aren't doing bad either. Minneapolis is probably the worst. This is why I keep saying coastal areas. Even in a crappy state like IL we're doing well. Inland states doing slightly poorly are likely because of one metro. Not the entire state.
460   Glock-n-Load   2025 Jul 7, 12:53pm  

Eric Holder says

GNL says



I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.


Disparity is a false metric. The "have nots" are living the best quality life ever. As for how much the "haves" have: you can eat, drink and fuck only so much until you reach your physical limitations, so the difference between having $100M and $100B are basically moot.

Good Lord man, who’s talking about millionaires and billionaires?
461   PeopleUnited   2025 Jul 7, 8:18pm  

AD says

There just may not be enough home owners willing to sell at that deep of a discount and the potential home sellers will "wait it out" while household income increases by about 2.5% a year.


most homeowners are going to do the math, and wait until buyers have more cash. And those who make the most money, will get a house, those that can’t make enough have plenty of new apartment buildings to choose from.
462   preed   2025 Jul 8, 6:03pm  

AD says

Microsoft laying off 4% of workforce: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/layoffs-doge-tariffs-cbs-news-explains/

www.wnd.com/?s=Amanda+Bartolotta

www.wnd.com/2025/05/from-redmond-to-bengaluru-how-microsofts-india-first-ai-agenda-exported-americas-future/

www.wnd.com/2025/06/americas-hidden-subsidy-to-india/
463   preed   2025 Jul 8, 6:07pm  

www.wnd.com/2025/05/u-s-pension-funds-used-to-fuel-indias-rise-and-americas-fall/
464   WookieMan   2025 Jul 9, 7:07am  

PeopleUnited says

And those who make the most money, will get a house, those that can’t make enough have plenty of new apartment buildings to choose from.

This really is it. There are plenty of apartments, townhomes and houses. Save up over 5 years in an area where renting is cheaper. I went in young at 21 and would have been better off waiting. Don't do the 3.5% down with FHA. Get a real 10-20% down and you're golden with 5-10 years of ownership.

On paper you may sell for less than you bought for, but you won't be upside down on the principle. Anyone that bought in the housing bust in 2006 at peak and held for 7-10 years, walked with a check from closing 98% of the time. Ghetto areas, eh, that's where the problem was.
468   AD   2025 Aug 5, 11:44pm  

.

M2 money supply



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471   GNL   2025 Aug 16, 4:34pm  

Trump says the American economy is growing and in better shape than ever before.
472   AD   2025 Aug 16, 5:49pm  

GNL says

Trump says the American economy is growing and in better shape than ever before.


W I N N I N G

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473   Glock-n-Load   2025 Aug 16, 7:14pm  

AD says

GNL says


Trump says the American economy is growing and in better shape than ever before.


W I N N I N G

.

You believe it?
474   Misc   2025 Aug 17, 6:11pm  

Since there are 1.5 million less illegals in the country, it has an effect on the overall GDP numbers.

The mainstream media doesn't put out maps that show the GDP per capita because that destroys their narrative.
475   Glock-n-Load   2025 Aug 17, 6:41pm  

What’s their narrative, that illegals don’t effect GDP?
476   Misc   2025 Aug 17, 7:24pm  

Glock-n-Load says

What’s their narrative, that illegals don’t effect GDP?


The narrative is that the economy is going to shit because of Trump.
477   Glock-n-Load   2025 Aug 17, 7:28pm  

Misc says

Glock-n-Load says


What’s their narrative, that illegals don’t effect GDP?


The narrative is that the economy is going to shit because of Trump.

Is the economy going to shit? And if so, why?
478   MolotovCocktail   2025 Aug 17, 7:29pm  

Misc says

The narrative is that the economy is going to shit because of Trump.


Isn't this always their narrative?
479   Misc   2025 Aug 17, 7:45pm  

Glock-n-Load says

Is the economy going to shit? And if so, why?


If you look at that map, it shows a preponderance of negative GPD numbers for the states. It is misleading because it does not show that GDP per capita increased. This occurred because there are sooooooooo many less illegals. However, the mainstream media doesn't point out the increase in GDP per capita.
480   WookieMan   2025 Aug 17, 9:11pm  

Misc says

Glock-n-Load says


What’s their narrative, that illegals don’t effect GDP?


The narrative is that the economy is going to shit because of Trump.

Where though? There are 10-20 jets worth $10-100M at my local airport. This is just an FBO airport with no terminal or any airline even regional. Housing bust there were literally no jets. There are individual hangers with at least 80-100 hangers for private planes. Those people make money to own a plane and have hanger space. Busy on the weekends for sure. Flight training which is expensive AF.

Wisconsin is booming. I don't like IL, but it's where we'll make the most. Regionally things are solid. Not a boom or bust, just normal activity. Don't go to Indy or Michigan as often, but in the past 5 years they're both doing well.

This might be shrugging off hardships, but AD posts about Panama City. I don't have the number he's mention but something like $280k down to $250k for a townhome isn't that big of a deal. A 10-11% loss sucks, IF you have to sell. Now go to coastal areas (yes PCB is coastal) that are high end. I like PCB, not a dig.

This is a pre-construction listing which would be included in the new home numbers numbers being thrown around on Patnet. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/303-Gulf-Dr-N_Bradenton-Beach_FL_34217_M53509-02051

You could get 10-20% less and still make a ton of money. People sucked up a lot of land during the bust. It's easier to get high margins on the land and house.

My take is the economy is fine. There are pockets that will get hit, but 90% of the country land wise is totally fine. Not great and not bad. Trump has limited control on the economy. Ultimately it's up to cash and banks. Either or. A lot of boomers that were responsible with saving likely have a ton of cash. Remember the DOW got to roughly 6k in 2006-2007 and it's at 45k 18 years later.

If you were 45 at the time and had been maxing out the 401k or stock investments, you have a shitload of money and are retired and collecting SS or already died and don't own a home.

Transportation. Rail freight a train rolls through town every 30-40 minutes a mile plus long. Traffic is shitty. So people can clearly afford gas. There's a shitload of lumber being moved around. I'm somewhat near a distribution facility for a large construction product company and trucks are coming and going 24/7.

You're gonna hear some sob stories. 9 out of 10 times it was the persons fault and not the economy.
481   HeadSet   2025 Aug 18, 7:15am  

WookieMan says

You're gonna hear some sob stories. 9 out of 10 times it was the persons fault and not the economy.

Yep. In Virginia, a major campaign issue for the Dem candidate for Governor is the sob story of all those laid off DC workers.
482   AD   2025 Aug 18, 10:20am  

WookieMan says

Wisconsin is booming.


Yeah, Wisconsin is faring a lot better than Illinois.

Wisconsin’s population reached approximately 5,991,540 in 2025, reflecting 0.51% annual growth.

Between 2010 and 2022, the state saw population gains in 11 of 12 years, averaging 0.3% growth per year

Personal income is forecast to rise by 5.1% in 2025, with real disposable income up 2.8%.

The state is projected to add 82,867 new jobs between 2023 and 2025—a 2.47% increase across all industries.

Wisconsin’s unemployment rate averaged 3.0% in 2024, below the national rate of 4.0%
483   WookieMan   2025 Aug 18, 11:05am  

AD says

Yeah, Wisconsin is faring a lot better than Illinois.

Agreed. I don't have state pride. Just make more here. IL is not doing all that bad either though after the housing crash exodus. We're coming out of the ashes. Ain't perfect, but there are many places I wouldn't want to be.
484   AD   2025 Aug 18, 1:28pm  

WookieMan says


Glock-n-Load says

What’s their narrative, that illegals don’t effect GDP?


I can only tell you for Panama City metro area (Bay County) that it does not have much of an impact as I noticed they can easily fill the void here.

There was a 3 hour wait to get an interview at Top Golf (just opened near Dolly Parton's new dinner theater).

Now maybe in posh white liberal areas it may be a lot more problematic as far as losing landscapers, dishwashers, and other manual laborers who voluntarily or involuntarily left the country due to illegal immigration status.

Same white liberals likely financing AntiFa operations to terrorize ICE in order to try to get enough independent voters and "moderate" Republicans to come to the Democrat open border + welfare state side.

But not sure how this impacts rental market as a lot where already over crowded in residential units. I don't see a big or noticeable supply of empty housing because of a +1 million exodus of illegal immigrants out of the USA.

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485   Glock-n-Load   2025 Aug 18, 5:59pm  

I think it would take 20 million or so to make a dent.
486   AD   2025 Sep 5, 9:56pm  

.

How much of the job numbers were inflated by Biden regime during the election year of 2024 ?

Trump admin is going to have to do some major adjustments to all the economic stats maintained by the federal government.

They should call in for a special counsel (not the inspector generals) to investigate this.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/05/nx-s1-5529937/economy-jobs-trump-bls

Cracks in the U.S. economy: Job growth slows 75% from a year ago

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487   AD   2025 Sep 5, 10:07pm  

.

This is because Trump admin is honestly reporting economic statistics. The "downturn" likely started a year after the Fed Funds rate reached 5.25%.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/interest-rate-cut-us-economy-22k-jobs-hpfccmd7n

Fears of US recession as economy adds just 22,000 jobs
August’s weaker-than-expected report has increased the likelihood of an interest rate cut by the US Federal Reserve this month to 99 per cent, traders believe

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488   RWSGFY   2025 Sep 11, 10:03am  

The consumer price index rose at an annual rate of 2.9 percent, the fourth-straight month of acceleration, while a less volatile gauge that excludes food and energy costs remained stuck above 3 percent, according to a Labor Department report released Thursday.

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