patrick.net

Misc says

Sure they work fine in Cali, but don't try that shit where it gets cold.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here/ar-AA1n1Q5i?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=d0d06ef048f24c9284b3d7922557d2c4&ei=60

Thankfully I don’t live in the cold climate. However, a bunch of guys have been doing experiments and share their results. Very interesting. This guy is from Alberta, Canada where it’s even colder than Chicago.

https://x.com/brucethemodel3/status/1746903381757833696?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

This guy lives in Chicago.

https://x.com/thejefflutz/status/1747120788983980205?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Honest question. Have you ever owned an EV? If yes, which one(s) were they? When you say EVs are 💩. Is that based on your personal experience?

It's based on market data. Personal experience is only something EV Fluffers resort to.

Can you share the data please? Thanks.

UkraineIsFucked says

zzyzzx says

EV's need batteries that aren't proprietary and DIY replaceable, an

They need battery packs that aren't comprised of 2,000 distinct parts nor mineral content we can't mine enough of.

The EV Fluffers here don't seem to grasp that the rest of us are looking towards the future and scalability. They think things will scale as they have done so far.

The Tesla Sub-fluffers are even worse. 80% of EVs in the world are made in China. With cobalt. Yet Tesla fluffers see the EV world as being Tesla!

Our point is if anyone is going to buy an EV, buy a Tesla, not other brands, as the company is way ahead of the competitions when it comes to battery and technology. People buy other brands, then whine and bitch about it. People want to look “different” and pay the price. Then give all EVs a bad rep.

UkraineIsFucked says

It's based on market data. Personal experience is only something EV Fluffers resort to.

Ha ha!

"I don't need to use my own personal experience. Jim Cramer from CNBC told me....."

socal2 says

Ha ha!

"I don't need to use my own personal experience. Jim Cramer from CNBC told me....

Tesla Fluffer 'reasoning' ^^^^

Thanks for proving my point.

Eman says

Our point is if anyone is going to buy an EV, buy a Tesla,

Tesla Fluffing Example #2.

Herst is taking a bath because of the Teslas in their EV fleet. Didn't you even READ that article?

Oh, and the scaling problems with the industry don't magically exclude Tesla. But hey! Tesla Fluffers are gonna fluff. They can't admit they bought into the wrong side of history.

Ha ha! Wrong side of history? Tesla can't scale?

I am sure all the horse carriage companies were saying the same thing about Ford.

The Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the entire freaking world. Tesla managed this despite spending 0 on advertising or promotions and suffering all the retarded and Leftists attacks on Elon and Tesla.

Tesla is also making industry record profit margins on every car they make even before government incentives. All the while the other auto OEM's are cratering and burdened with decades of union pension liabilities and outdated factories pumping out crappy ICE cars fewer people want.

https://x.com/spotted_model/status/1747030543412174964?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Our point is if anyone is going to buy an EV, buy a Tesla,

Tesla Fluffing Example #2.

Herst is taking a bath because of the Teslas in their EV fleet. Didn't you even READ that article?

Oh, and the scaling problems with the industry don't magically exclude Tesla. But hey! Tesla Fluffers are gonna fluff. They can't admit they bought into the wrong side of history.

It seems like you have never owned a Tesla, or even an EV for that matter. The issue with Hertz taking a loss is not what you understand it to be. It’s alright. Time to move on.

Eman says

seems like you have never owned a Tesla, or even an EV for that matter. The issue with Hertz taking a loss is not what you understand it to be. It’s alright. Time to move on.

Tesla Fluffer Example #3. Like all the others, it is all about justifying your Tesla ownership. You can't argue on the facts/data. This one is ad hominem, too.

Wow. You make this too easy.

What amazes me Eman is how you tie your rep to socal2's. Talk about cutting off your own (Tesla tattooed, I am sure) street cred balls. << now THAT is how you deliver an ad hominem.

UkraineIsFucked says

You can't argue on the facts/data.

Let us know when you provide some "facts/data". Wookieman at least tries to provide his anecdotal experiences.

I (nor Eman?) are advocating for forced government adoption of EV's or even incentives. However, we will gladly take whatever incentive the Feds or California throws at us..........as I have personally paid enough State Income Tax to last a lifetime for most people.

What we are arguing is that Tesla is a superior product and continues to be one of the most profitable and fastest growing car companies in the world.

Enjoy driving your primitive ICE cars, owning a Tesla allows me to enjoy the benefits of driving a luxury sports car like a Porsche at half the price!

https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/my-us-senate-testimony-on-epas-ev

also electric vehicle batteries work best between 50 degrees and 110 degrees Fahrenheit

because of electrochemistry principles, battery efficiency drops off a lot below 38 degrees when i was on the solar electric vehicle team we would heat the batteries to around 90 degrees to ensure peak performance
.



.

socal2 says

Let us know when you provide some "facts/data".

I already did. You, as always, pretend I didn't or those facts don't exist because you can't handle reality that clashes with your fantasies. You do this with the Ukraine war, too.

socal2 says

I (nor Eman?) are advocating for forced government adoption of EV's or even incentives

Strawman. I never claimed that you did. But you defend it anyway while denying it

socal2 says

What we are arguing is that Tesla is a superior product and continues to be one of the most profitable and fastest growing car companies in the world.

No, you are not. You make stupid arguments about EVs, then assume EV = Tesla. And then it's all Tesla Fluffing. Like you are doing now.

socal2 says

Enjoy driving your primitive ICE cars, owning a Tesla allows me to enjoy the benefits of driving a luxury sports car like a Porsche at half the price!

^^^ Tesla Fluffing with a dash of snobbery. Not serious policy discussion.

Yo @Eman

This is what I was referring to. I am giving you this last opportunity to throw socal2 under the bus or be forever tarred with his shitty cred here on PatNet.

Eman says

Our point is if anyone is going to buy an EV, buy a Tesla, not other brands

What if I hate AWD and RWD? Tesla doesn't offer the vastly superior FWD format.

socal2 says

I am sure all the horse carriage companies were saying the same thing about Ford.

EVs are not different from ICEs as ICEs are different from horse drawn carriages.

But you just post logic-free 'horse shit' w/o a thought.

Yo @Eman ^^^ this is the 'horse drawn carriage' you are hitching your rep wagon to unless you denounce socal2's bs right here and now.

So when the AI apocalypse begins, just wait until mid January then there will be hell to pay.

If all of this tech shit can't stand up to abuse from small children, then how will it hold up to revolting adults?

socal2 says

, owning a Tesla allows me to enjoy the benefits of driving a luxury sports car like a Porsche at half the price!

Is that the way you see your Tesla?
They look like an over priced economy coupe that most every manufacturer makes. They remind me of a Sunbeam electric egg beater with the paddles removed.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2793977/wheels-falling-off-forced-transition-to-electric-vehicles/

Putin's porn boy is having a moment and now demanding posters "denounce" me for articulating my first-hand views of the economics and joy of driving EV's for the last 5 years. Putin's porn boy seems to think his 2 minutes of Googling can somehow match my half decade experience. I've driven mediocre EV's (Chevy Bolt, Volt) and have driven the best (Tesla).

It is laughable how little you know about this (and many subjects). But you do you!

Meanwhile, I bought 10 more shares of Tesla during the dip this month. I am putting my money where my mouth is. I can't think of any other US based company that has the margin and growth potential as Tesla has including all of their AI, robotics and battery production.

socal2 says

Putin's porn boy is having a moment and now demanding posters "denounce" me for articulating my first-hand views of the economics and joy of driving EV's for the last 5 years. Putin's porn boy seems to think his 2 minutes of Googling can somehow match my half decade experience. I've driven mediocre EV's (Chevy Bolt, Volt) and have driven the best (Tesla).

It is laughable how little you know about this (and many subjects). But you do you!

Meanwhile, I bought 10 more shares of Tesla during the dip this month. I am putting my money where my mouth is. I can't think of any other US based company that has the margin and growth potential as Tesla has including all of their AI, robotics and battery production.

More Tesla Fluffing! He can't help himself. Like a mental disease or something.

Hey, did you trade in your horse drawn carriage when you bought your Snobbery Symbol?

What about you, @Eman? You're awfully quiet now that your buddy is going Full Metal Fluffer.

Who here at Patnet is arguing for a "forced transition" to EV's?

Can you use your own thoughts and logic and stop spamming us arguments that no one is making? No one is forcing anyone to buy a Tesla. Tesla has massive demand because word of mouth about the quality of their product.

I have personally gotten 3 referrals convincing Conservative truck guys and motor heads to buy Teslas simply by giving them test rides in my car.

What other car company (or any product company in history) can have this level of success without advertising? Let alone having the Media, Democrat Politicians, Unions, Woke retards, short-sellers, OPEC, Russia all against it?

People have a job you know. “Working” between 10:30am-12pm. Then lunch from 12pm to whenever and go home. Then exercise from when I’m home to 2-3pm…ish.

There’s life outside Patnet you know. 😂

The hard reality is that EVs have long been a niche-market product rather than a mass-market one. Further, that niche market is primarily defined by class and ideology. Some 57% of EV owners earn more than $100,000 annually, 75% are male, and 87% are white.

As they lose their jobs to DEI, those white dudes won't be able to make those payments.

Last October, researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, released a remarkable study that found “counties with affluent left-leaning cities” like Cambridge, San Francisco, and Seattle “play a disproportionately large role in driving the entire national increase in EV adoption.”[xiii] The researchers found that over the past decade, about half of all the EVs sold in the U.S. were sold in the most heavily Democratic counties in the country.

This explains socal2, at least.



https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/my-us-senate-testimony-on-epas-ev

socal2 says

Who here at Patnet is arguing for a "forced transition" to EV's?

Can you use your own thoughts and logic and stop spamming us arguments that no one is making? No one is forcing anyone to buy a Tesla. Tesla has massive demand because word of mouth about the quality of their product.

I have personally gotten 3 referrals convincing Conservative truck guys and motor heads to buy Teslas simply by giving them test rides in my car.

What other car company (or any product company in history) can have this level of success without advertising? Let alone having the Media, Democrat Politicians, Unions, Woke retards, short-sellers, OPEC, Russia all against it?

You keep.making that strawman argument up while avoiding the hard facts. Just like you do with everything else.

Eman hasn't denounced it, so he's in board. Fluffing for Tesla!

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

Eric Holder says

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

If they want to unload them, they'll reduce the prices.

Actually, they are probably going to be mass auctioning them off to used car dealers or brokers in between.

Nothing proves a car's true market worth more than it's market resale price.

And EVs right now are dog shit. (waiting for socal2 to make a bullshit transfiguration of 'market' into 'utility' value)

Even with new cars, car dealers are selling their dealership contract back to GM because they don't want to carry them anymore. That's BAD.

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations. Now this is an important phase for new products prior to real mass adoption, that's true. But that is all it is despite Team socal2 & Eman Fluffing for Tesla while pretending to be meaningfully debating the future viability of EVs.

In fact, their comments reinforce my 'niche' and 'vanity' characterizations.

UkraineIsFucked says

If they want to unload them, they'll reduce the prices.

Nothing proves a car's true market worth more than it's market resale price.

Well, duh.

Eric Holder says

Well, duh.

socal2, Eman and probably others following along actually have to be told that, believe it or not.

Not that they will listen. This is emotional for them.

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations.

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla. Months of backlog without a lick of advertising.
https://www.greencars.com/news/the-tesla-model-y-is-the-best-selling-car-in-the-world

Just wait until the Cybertruck production ramps up.

What other car in the history of the world has this type of reaction on the street?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCyy5yqkrWE
https://twitter.com/X_E_U_S/status/1746521721023189046
https://twitter.com/teslaownersSV/status/1746393808680722690

socal2 says

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla.

Tesla Fluffing Example...what number is this one? 6?

This still holds true:

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

Explain again how the best selling car in the world is niche?

socal2 says

Explain again how the best selling car in the world is niche?

Already did. And the fact that only 6 percent in the US want an EV for their next vehicle explains it even more.

Oh... and far more cars other than Tesla are sold - both here and especially abroad. So one can't claim Tesla's are the world's best selling cars.

AND as far as EVs go, China's BYD outsells Tesla: https://mishtalk.com/economics/only-6-percent-in-the-us-want-an-ev-for-their-next-vehicle/

You see, the 'world' comprises a helluva lot more than just Southern California.

Oh...one more added caveat: when you have woketarded CEOs at Herrz and the other fleet buyers ruining their company's net worth by purchasing Teslas in the tens of thousands, that's going to goose the sales figures.

"That won't do nothing but make Cadillac number-one dealership in the country." - Barbershop (2002)

Why do you post your bullshit when it can be so easily proven to be bullshit?

Since EVs are broadly more expensive to purchase upfront than comparable gas vehicles, the best way to assess whether an EV will ultimately be cheaper to own over the long term is by looking at its break-even time: when its lower recurring costs make up for its higher upfront cost. Woody and his team found that 200-mile range compact and midsize electric sedans reach this point in 3 to 7 years, while 300-mile range variants take nine to 20 years to break even. Electric SUVs and trucks with 300 miles of range generally take more than 20 years, while 400-mile range EVs will never break even over their lifetimes.

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2024/01/16/are_evs_actually_cheaper_to_own_maybe_not_1005129.html

More on socal2's 'best selling car':

Desperate Tesla owners in and around Chicago were seen trying to charge their vehicles with no luck amid frigid temperatures that have gripped the Midwest.

“Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent,” Tyler Beard, who had been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook, Illinois Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon, told the news outlet. “And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday.”

“This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously,” said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle. Mizelle said she abandoned her car and got a ride from a friend after hers would not charge. “We got a bunch of dead robots out here,” one man said.

[Someone pushes a Tesla at a Chicago-area vehicle charging station where many of the electric vehicles have been forced to sit amid freezing temperatures. Many of the vehicles failed to charge at stations around Chicago amid the cold weather.] Best Selling Car In America!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here


original link

UkraineIsFucked says

Already did.

Where - how?

Also, it is staggering how much more successful this American company is compared to everyone else including Volkswagen. Most of these OEM's will be out of business before the end of this decade. They are nothing more than a bankrupt Municipal Pension fund who make crappy cars on the side.

More math for the short bus folks. Less than 2 years ago, all the "smart people" were predicting VW would be eclipsing Tesla's EV sales and profits by now.



https://twitter.com/alojoh/status/1747303213173235838

socal2 says

Where - how?

Ok. You are now just trolling. And you aren't even doing a good job as that.

Hey @Eman ! Proud of your boy here?

Finished the workout earlier too. Focus on things that better your life. The stuff on Patnet is for fun. Don’t get to hang up on it if we disagree.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

seems like you have never owned a Tesla, or even an EV for that matter. The issue with Hertz taking a loss is not what you understand it to be. It’s alright. Time to move on.

Tesla Fluffer Example #3. Like all the others, it is all about justifying your Tesla ownership. You can't argue on the facts/data. This one is ad hominem, too.

Wow. You make this too etop.

What amazes me Eman is how you tie your rep to socal2's. Talk about cutting off your own (Tesla tattooed, I am sure) street cred balls. << now THAT is how you deliver an ad hominem.

There’s nothing to justify. Hertz bought the EVs at the top of the market when inflation was running rampant, and there were NO tax incentives.

Let’s run some numbers:

Hertz paid $50k/car without tax incentives.
The same car is selling for $39k with $7.5-$15k tax incentives brand new. Run the math and see how much beating Hertz is taking…for the right reason. Who in their right mind would pay $25k for a used Tesla model 3 with 70-90k miles on it?

Eric Holder says

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

Our siblings bought a few months ago and got $9.5-$15k tax rebates and tax credit. $2k to $7.5k from State and $7.5k from Federal. PG&E also offers $500 to install a level 2 charger at home. There are a lot more rebates for low income folks and folks with a beater car, etc… the incentives could be over $20k if one qualified for all these.

This is why Hertz is taking a bath with their used fleet EV. It’s the freaking market and all the incentives that are being offer. It’s not their fault or the car’s fault.