patrick.net

socal2 says

richwicks says

They always, always, always, every fucking time, tell the most outrageous lies.

Is it not the most "outrageous lie" of them all to claim Ukraine is filled with Neo-Nazis threatening Russian sovereign territory - hence the need for a full blown war and hundreds of thousands of dead human beings?

That's not why Russia is at war with Ukraine.

Russia is at war with Ukraine, because Ukraine won't remain neutral. Russia has been EXTREMELY clear on this for 8 years. Beyond that, but FAR LESS RELEVANT is that Ukraine is in civil war and it's between the Ukrainian population and the Ethnic Russian population.

FURTHERMORE, it was the West claiming that Ukraine had a Neo-Nazi problem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/opinion/what-ukraines-jews-fear.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/world/europe/02history.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/02/neo-nazi-groups-recruit-britons-to-fight-in-ukraine

Those are the same assholes telling you why there's a war now and calling Putin Putler.

When I say the're FUCKING LIARS, I mean it. You'll go CRAZY listening to these assholes and believing anything they say. They'll never, ever stop lying to you.

socal2 says

Again - please tell me what the "threat" NATO expansion was on Russia other than keeping Russia within their internationally recognized borders?

The US is trying to prevent Russia from trading energy with Europe. They are trying to institute regime change within Russia.

Those threats.

WookieMan says

NATO wants nothing to do with Russia. There's nothing there and Westerners are not going in for gas and oil because it's cold as fuck and no one likes vodka generally. They were happy buying the gas and oil from Russia or the ME.

Well, what a waste it was then to blow up the Nordstream pipelines. I mean, nobody wanted it and they were all happy getting it from the Middle East...

Instead of all the bullshit back-and-forth on this thread, can we all just look at the title and agree, we don't want WWIII, and we won't support one. Fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia, fuck Europe, and fuck our government. No war!

NuttBoxer says

Instead of all the bullshit back-and-forth on this thread, can we all just look at the title and agree, we don't want WWIII, and we won't support one. Fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia, fuck Europe, and fuck our government. No war!

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

richwicks says

The US is trying to prevent Russia from trading energy with Europe. They are trying to institute regime change within Russia.

Those threats.

After the pipeline explosion Secretary Blinken said it was a great opportunity for the USA to sell LNG to Germany.

Right now Russia is getting by with selling natural gas and oil to India and China, albeit at lower prices than if it was to sell to the European Union.

Russia's economy is still holding up and has not collapsed like some forecasted.

Look at natural gas prices. Propane is back to 2019 levels, for example. So Europe did not suffer too much from very high gas prices.

.

The ongoing expansion of the Ukraine conflict ...

Mass Drone Attack Unleashes Chaos, Air Raid Sirens Inside Russia

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mass-drone-attack-unleashes-chaos-air-raid-sirens-inside-russia

socal2 says

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

socal2 says

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

Would be awesome if it were just that simple, but if that were true, war never would have started. If you want a more balanced view, check out antiwar.com

NuttBoxer says

Would be awesome if it were just that simple, but if that were true, war never would have started.

It is that simple.

Every other option is much more complicated and risks much more death and escalation.

Russia has to face the fact that they failed in their mission in the first month of the war by failing to topple Kiev and the central government. Russia has no hope of achieving their original goals now. Through Russia's incompetence and barbarity, they have alienated (or killed?) the remaining ethnic pro-Russian population that Putin claimed he cared so much about necessitating this useless war that has gotten hundreds of thousands of people killed.

So what is driving all this now - other than one man's vanity?

Fight for America's Ladies!

We've sent a never ending supply of MONEY and war material, but that's not enough. Not for Zelensky, that is. Now he's asking for American blood.

Zelensky Said What? “The U.S. Will Have to Send Their Sons and Daughters” and “They Will Be Dying”

https://redwave.press/zelensky-said-what-the-u-s-will-have-to-send-their-sons-and-daughters-and-they-will-be-dying/

socal2 says

Russia has to face the fact that they failed in their mission in the first month of the war by failing to topple Kiev and the central government. Russia has no hope of achieving their original goals now. Through Russia's incompetence and barbarity, they have alienated (or killed?) the remaining ethnic pro-Russian population that Putin claimed he cared so much about necessitating this useless war that has gotten hundreds of thousands of people killed.

Pretty good summary. I'm not pro either nation. Frankly it seems like someone gave toddlers bottles of vodka in the sand box. Everyone's hands are dirty on this war. It's 100% unnecessary. And before idiots start bringing up our wars, this Ukraine/Russia conflict is exponentially worse on an exponential scale because it's run by idiots.

We lost less people in Afghanistan than Chicago over the same period. I suppose it was cheaper for the domestic killing versus Afghanistan, but this Russia/Ukraine war is awful for both sides. Europeans are pussies (NATO). I don't think our government has the gumption to throw our citizens at it, just weapons to Ukrainians. This escalates and expands to the Polish border though, Russia gets smoked and they know it. There's no sense in any of it.

The only net positive is I'm sure we're continuing to make weapons and people have jobs. And our young adults aren't dying in a drunken war so far. No one has been a true aggressor to Russia in a while. It's all rhetoric. They have oil and gas they can sell and Europe or the US seemingly have ZERO intentions of invading/attacking Russia. Basically this is stupid.

RayAmerica says

We've sent a never ending supply of MONEY and war material, but that's not enough. Not for Zelensky, that is. Now he's asking for American blood.

Zelensky Said What? “The U.S. Will Have to Send Their Sons and Daughters” and “They Will Be Dying”

https://redwave.press/zelensky-said-what-the-u-s-will-have-to-send-their-sons-and-daughters-and-they-will-be-dying/

If you watch his entire statement, he is clearly talking about if Russia wins in Ukraine and then starts attacking neighboring NATO countries - then the US would have an obligation to send troops to protect NATO countries.

Step by step, the escalation continues ...

Cross-Border 'Terror Attack' On Russia Involved Dozens Of Armed (Ukrainian) Saboteurs Attacking Villages

Russian presidency spokesman Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said militants entered the Bryansk Oblast in Western Russia and attacked villages there, resulting in the death of one civilian and another wounded. "This is an attack by terrorists," Peskov said.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cross-border-terror-attack-russia-involved-dozens-armed-saboteurs-attacking-villages

PS: The day is coming when Ukraine uses one of its American supplied weapons against Russian civilians, which could conceivably lead to retaliatory attacks upon American targets. We are witnessing the process of incrementalism that leads to the start of major wars.

Mark this day down in history. An NBC reporter actually states the truth regarding Zelensky's insane stated goal to attack Crimea:

NBC Reporter Goes To Crimea, Shocks Viewers By Telling The Truth (video)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/msnbc-reporter-goes-crimea-shocks-viewers-telling-truth

RayAmerica says

PS: The day is coming when Ukraine uses one of its American supplied weapons against Russian civilians, which could conceivably lead to retaliatory attacks upon American targets. We are witnessing the process of incrementalism that leads to the start of major wars.

Yes this leads to a major war. No we will not be attacked by Russia. No nukes. No attacks on US bases or territories. They don't have the capability. All their conflicts have been on the same land mass as long as there been a USSR or Russia.

I don't trust our DOD, but there's no chance Russia advances on the US when they can't even take out a Texas sized country that is mostly fields and a few big cities and suburban sized towns that are mostly shit anyway. Much of their weapons have already been destroyed. They have submarines, but I highly doubt they're active and working. They have literally no offensive capability. They could be launching missiles from subs today. They can't. They're a drunk, brut force country. They have no attack capabilities that aren't from the WWII era.

Apparently that reporter is now on a Ukrainian hit list!? No link to actual site, so take this with a grain of salt:
https://twitter3e4tixl4xyajtrzo62zg5vztmjuricljdp2c5kshju4avyoid.onion/MaxBlumenthal/status/1631124426463879171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Yes, it's an onion link, it's what I use.

socal2 says

Russia has legitimate rights to their former Commie Slave colonies they occupied after WWII

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union before WW2.
Crimea was part of Russia since 1922. Before that the Crimean Peninsula was a perennial battleground. .
What do you suppose the Bidens were doing in Ukraine before Russia invaded?

socal2 says

Russia getting double-crossed by their Nazi allies, is in no way a legitimate excuse for Russia being the aggressor again in Ukraine 80 years later!

You meant Soviet Union.

Russia has legitimate reasons to stop the neoconservative envelopement of their country.

Funny how Hillary was beating the war drums against Russia in 2016, then peace for 4 years. Now that Biden the corrupt (senior) is in power we're at war with Russia.

cisTits says

Onvacation says

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union before WW2.

And a big chunk of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire before that.

Who gives a shit? Texas was part of Mexico. Also ever hear of the Louisiana purchase? Should the French now attack us? That's the same logic. I swear to god the retard pills are in circulation of late here. AND I give no shits about Ukraine or Russia. Let them kill each other. Let's manufacture weapons that create jobs stateside. As long as we're not losing enlisted men it's a win win outside of the money. Russia is toast long term regardless.

WookieMan says

AND I give no shits about Ukraine or Russia. Let them kill each other. Let's manufacture weapons that create jobs stateside. As long as we're not losing enlisted men it's a win win outside of the money.

You do know that makes the world worse for everyone? All of the money that goes into Ukraine could be used in the United States. Manufacturing weapons means we manufacture less consumer goods. Wars are inflationary. Refugees lower the standard of living. Not to mention the environmental damage modern weapons of war cause.

The same globalist that are trying to kill or enslave us are the ones fighting in Ukraine against Russia. Trump was impeached for trying to investigate what was going on. Many of our politicians and their families have become rich over Ukrainian corruption.

We should have no interest in Ukraine. The real war, for liberty and freedom, is right here in America.

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Amazing.

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

socal2 says

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Amazing.

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

No.

The United States overthrew Ukraine. This entire situation is PRECISELY what the United States wanted, right down to controlling Russia's ability to send energy to Europe.

This war could have been easily prevented, and it wasn't, because the puppets the CIA put in power were ordered to encourage it.

Want to prevent future wars? Just send all the Neocons to prison. There, we'll FINALLY have a peace dividend.

cisTits says

WookieMan says

Who gives a shit?

Exactly my point. social2 apparently does.

I care in that I don't want to see needless death and world instability because Russia is so fucking incompetent getting hundreds of thousands of people killed in their failed war.

Some folks here only seem to care and support Russia's illegal invasion to punish Ukraine for being a money laundering playground of US Democrats.

As much as I loathe the Democrats, I would never in a million years cheer on fucking Putin's Russia to succeed in an illegal and total cock-up of an invasion that has gotten so many people killed.

socal2 says

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

Do you deny that the west started this war?

Why do the neocons want to strangle Russia?

the goal was ultimately to create the conditions for regime change in Russia. By “overextending and unbalancing” Russia in the military, economic and diplomatic spheres the U.S. could realistically hope to replace the Russian state with one of its own choosing, as it had done with Ukraine.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/6-reasons-the-neocons-in-the-west-wanted-this-war-with-russia/

richwicks says

This entire situation is PRECISELY what the United States wanted, right down to controlling Russia's ability to send energy to Europe.

Ah - America pulling all the strings?

The geniuses in the Biden (and former Obama) administration goaded Russia into launching a massive invasion and fighting a losing battle for over a year?

Russia is too stupid and just playing along like a little pawn?

Onvacation says

Do you deny that the west started this war?

The war started a year ago when Russia foolishly invaded Ukraine with 200,000+ troops.

Oh, are you talking about the "Cold War"?

How far back are we going to go to justify Russia's illegal invasion?

socal2 says

Some folks here only seem to care and support Russia's illegal invasion to punish Ukraine for being a money laundering playground of US Democrats.

There would be no war if the US got their thumb on top of the warmongers and murderers that started this whole thing.

The FSB revealed that the US did a coup by producing the recording between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt. That fact Americans did NOTHING about that, makes all Americans complicit.

Remember, what brought down the USSR was that the US just reported the truth on what a criminal government the USSR was. Russia is now doing what we USED to do - telling the public the truth. So everything that government wants to lie about and continue to lie about is now called "Russian propaganda" - from Hunter Biden's laptops, to vaccines being neither safe nor effective.

Russia is no friend of the people of the United States, but they recognize we have a common enemy and they are pointing it out, JUST LIKE the US did back in the 1980's with Radio Free America.

The war in Ukraine will end the SECOND the US stops funding it, it wouldn't even started if the US didn't fund the Ukrainian civil war in the first place, even if the US still overthrew the nation. This can all stop, but no. Let Ohio get poisoned, open the borders, and send 100 billion to continue this war.

Russia will win this war, but it's going to be a war of attrition. They'll wipe out the male Ukrainian population, because Ukraine's puppet government is forcing them to fight, and it's going to take years because the US wants to "weaken Russia". That's the goal. It's not to topple Russia, simply to weaken it. It's just another human tragedy caused by the Neocons that drag us into every fucking war, by lying to the public, and by their laptop media that protects them.

socal2 says

The geniuses in the Biden (and former Obama) administration goaded Russia into launching a massive invasion and fighting a losing battle for over a year?

We don't know what the situation is. Let me remind you that "Afghanistan was won" 10 years ago. That's what our media was saying.

I understand I don't have complete information, I understand both sides lie. I understand what this war is about, it's a proxy war, a war of attrition to weaken each side, this is Vietnam II or III or IV or whatever. I don't bother to pay attention to what the propagandists say, on EITHER side.

The goals at this point is for the US to weaken Russia, and for Russia to weaken the EU and the United States. I expect this war to go on for YEARS. Hopefully I'm wrong, but being cynical serves me well.

socal2 says

The war started a year ago when Russia foolishly invaded Ukraine with 200,000+ troops.

Oh, are you talking about the "Cold War"?

socal2 says

The war started a year ago when Russia foolishly invaded Ukraine with 200,000+ troops.

Oh, are you talking about the "Cold War"?

You're being obtuse.

socal2 says

I care in that I don't want to see needless death and world instability because Russia is so fucking incompetent getting hundreds of thousands of people killed in their failed war.

From the Russian prospective it needed to happen and has been happening. I get 2014 and our role and Crimea but this was always in the works with Putin regardless. He's trying to create a legacy. What I don't think he realizes is in modern times no one really truly cares. In American history books he'll declared a war mongering dictator. I also think he is souring with Russia nationals as well. They just don't have an outlet. Putin and the oligarchs control everything.

We are similar, but as flawed as the US is with media, you generally can find out what you want. It's the execution of doing anything about it that's the problem. I've literally gotten a direct response from the county prosecutor that admitted evidence that I produced was illegal with what my kids school district was doing. They violated OMA and reporting what they were doing with tax payer money. I could have sued and taken action, but that's money out of my pocket two fold since I'd be suing the body I pay taxes to, essentially myself.

Our legal system on the Federal, state, county and city level is shit. They look the other way. So the DOD thinks they can get away with anything. The FBI thinks they can get away with anything. The CIA thinks they can get away with anything. Guess what they do. There are no consequences and that's because of fucking lawyers. Politicians are bad, but the "police" so to speak with regards to lawyers do nothing.

Put this way I could run a kid over with a 0.25 BAC and get out of it. Lawyers control everything. Even judges. Now just take this to the federal level. FBI, CIA, DOD, FDA, CDC, etc all have the best lawyers. If we had a true legal system things would be substantially different.

socal2 says

Onvacation says

Do you deny that the west started this war?

The war started a year ago when Russia foolishly invaded Ukraine with 200,000+ troops.

Oh, are you talking about the "Cold War"?

How far back are we going to go to justify Russia's illegal invasion?

It started in 2014 when the United States overthrew Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44TrkyAkZw4

original link

Even the secretary general of NATO has admitted this. When a politician tells the truth, which is INCREDIBLY rare, listen. What's happened is clear, please stop clouding the issue. I have pointed out what is going on, countless times here. I get people complaining that I repeat myself, what I don't get though, are people contesting what I'm saying.

So long as people keep repeating falsehoods, I'll keep correcting them.

Watched War Games last night. I think it's a really under-rated movie. Early hacker genre, good suspense, somehow still light-hearted, and a great lesson more than a few people here need to be reminded of. There are no winners in war, so the best move is not to play.

This can't be. I thought the defeat of the Russian forces was imminent and that the next conquest for the victorious Ukraine army was Crimea.

Bakhmut "Practically Surrounded" As Wagner Chief Urges Zelensky Surrender His Forces 'To Save Lives'

"As we reported earlier this week, Zelensky and his top aides have lately issued statements appearing to pave the way for a 'strategic withdrawal' - or in reality a retreat - as better-armed and numerically superior Russian forces have the city almost completely encircled."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bakhmut-practically-surrounded-wagner-chief-tells-zelensky-surrender-save-lives

PS: Attention Joe Biden: Please send more boatloads of taxpayers money in order to save Ukraine. Your 10% will naturally go into your off-shore account, as per usual, Your pal and partner Zelensky.

RayAmerica says

This can't be. I thought the defeat of the Russian forces was imminent and that the next conquest for the victorious Ukraine army was Crimea.

Bakhmut "Practically Surrounded" As Wagner Chief Urges Zelensky Surrender His Forces 'To Save Lives'

Even if Russia manages to capture Bakmut (hasn't happened yet) - how massively pathetic is it for Russia (and the US fanboy club?) to celebrate Bakhmut as some sort of major achievement for Russia after 4+ months of losing thousands of men to this meat grinder?

How many months and how many thousands of Russian lives were lost or grievously wounded to capture this one city? Yeah yeah - they were just throw away Russian prisoners from Wagner, but Russia is already in a demographic death spiral and can't afford to lose thousands of fertile men for a lost cause. This is not WWII where Russia had an endless supply of peasants who had 8+ kids per family.

At this rate, it will take Russia 50+ more years and a million lives to get back to the ground they temporarily held in the first month of the war.

socal2 says

At this rate, it will take Russia 50+ more years and a million lives to get back to the ground they temporarily held in the first month of the war.

Again the purpose of the war is to drag it out, for both Russia and the United States. It's a war of attrition.

Steve Bannon at CPAC: We Are Being Led Into World War III
https://rumble.com/v2bnhn8-steve-bannon-at-cpac-we-are-being-led-into-world-war-iii.html

I don't get it. How can we call ourselves Americans giving shit tons of money to some foreign country, and leaving people in Ohio to die from being poisoned? Seems like the only thing that should be discussed on this topic is how to turn all that fucking fake support and sentiment to good use for the people suffering in East Palestine.

By the way. I have noticed some of you who barely mentioned the train wreck except to downplay it, have been VERY vocal in support of Ukraine. What does that say about your priorities?

socal2 says

So what is driving all this now - other than one man's vanity?

This has been answered many times before, but you just ignore it in favor of bullshit US propaganda. It's tiresome. You ask questions and you ignore answers.

Putin is just like our president, a figurehead. I imagine Putin has some ACTUAL power though, unlike Biden, but if Putin drops dead tomorrow, that won't end the war. Remember when Georgia attacked S. Ossetia, and Russia went in to put an end to that? It wasn't Putin that did that, it was Dmitry Medvedev.

It's Western FICTION that Putin is the "one man behind this". It's stupid and childish to believe that.