patrick.net

RedStar says

You must live in another universe if you can't see the threat that NATO expansion was to Russia

Again - please tell me what the "threat" NATO expansion was on Russia other than keeping Russia within their internationally recognized borders?

It's not as if the USSR and Russia don't have a major history of invading and occupying their smaller and weaker neighbors.

RedStar says

All the history is there unless you want to be a NATO apologist.

NATO wants nothing to do with Russia. There's nothing there and Westerners are not going in for gas and oil because it's cold as fuck and no one likes vodka generally. They were happy buying the gas and oil from Russia or the ME.

When NATO attacks Russia let us know. This is a proxy war and the only country that's attacked anyone is Russia. No one ever attacked Russia. I don't get this point of view. If Russia want to fuel the fire bring it on. They'll lose. And I don't even care who wins. It's a waste of fucking time and life.

WookieMan says

When NATO attacks Russia let us know.

But but but........we are being told that NATO's very existence is somehow an existential threat to Russia! Therefore, Russia has every right to invade their non-NATO neighbors and get hundreds of thousands of people killed for nothing!

We are to believe that Russia is somehow safer now, after losing so many of their military in Ukraine and showing the whole world the sad state of affairs of the Russian fighting force. Russia is using prisoners for cannon fodder FFS! How much more pathetic can they be?

Russia getting so many of their young men killed for nothing is just hastening their demographic collapse.

Where is the silver lining for Russia in all of this?

How many Russians do you think have died in this war? Best count I saw was about 28,000 to ten times that number of Ukrainians. Russia isn’t losing. Not by any metric. They’ve won a fair amount of land that won’t be given up without blood and they might just finish off Ukraine

cisTits says

Shaman says

How many Russians do you think have died in this war? Best count I saw was about 28,000 to ten times that number of Ukrainians. Russia isn’t losing. Not by any metric. They’ve won a fair amount of land that won’t be given up without blood and they might just finish off Ukraine

About that in their regular army. Convicts used as cannon fodder by Wagner Group don't count.

In virtually every war - attackers have 3X the casualties as defenders. The ratio is probably worse with the incompetent Russian military, untrained convicts and trench warfare with heavy reliance on artillery.

Every day, there are new videos like this showing 100's of Russian's getting killed or grievously wounded by off the shelf drones. Imagine how many more Russians are dying from HIMARS or massive artillery strikes that can't be filmed this close and personal? How many Russians are being executed by the Russian military and Wagner for fleeing the front lines? How many are freezing to death?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmfrKLiml2Y

Is this a job for our 'Treasury Secretary?' Why is the former head of the Federal Reserve in Ukraine promising another $1.25 BILLION to this notoriously corrupt little nation? By doing so, does she get
kick back money deposited into her off shore account?

Yellen In Ukraine Announces Another $1.25 Billion

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/yellen-ukrainian-announces-another-125-billion

The New York Times reports that "The trip — during which Ms. Yellen announced the transfer of $1.25 billion in economic and budget assistance to Ukraine — is part of a concerted diplomatic push by the Biden administration to show support for Ukraine while maintaining pressure on Russia."

PS: Why is there no accountability as to where all of this money is going, and, how EXACTLY it is being used for Ukraine's 'economic and budget assistance?'

America has a $31 Trillion National Debt ... and counting, with another $150 Trillion in off budget obligations. How long can this insane, reckless spending go on before there is a collapse?

Sorry but that’s just speculation based on nothing but Hopium.
Ukraine is losing quite badly. Best estimates put their dead at almost 300,000 soldiers with at least that number wounded.
When the foreign mercenaries joined the fight to help Ukraine, they did better for a time. But the thing about mercenaries is that they tend to abandon a losing side because they’re unwilling to be martyrs.

The war in Ukraine is just more money laundering for the NWO. Putin is likely just playing his part as the villain, but he’s staying within the lines.
Honestly, he seems like a much better President than Joementia who totters between senility and bouts of angry old man irrationality. That and he’s a fucking Nazi fascist asshole who mandated that people take the poisonous vaccine which has undoubtedly caused the greatest medical disaster of our time, targeting our own younger work force. It’s shameful that he’s our President. This country is run by scammers and bastards. The world would be safer without the USA.

Shaman says

Ukraine is losing quite badly. Best estimates put their dead at almost 300,000 soldiers with at least that number wounded.

And? This is a fucking bar fight for no legitimate reason. Until one side admits they were the idiot this will drag on. Unfortunately both sides are idiots. We're just buying one idiot a couple beers or vodkas to drag the fight out. This is the war. Russia was insecure that someone was hitting on their girlfriend and it escalated to this. Now the friends of the girl are coming in with guns blazing. Or at least handing them guns. That's a real world depiction of this war that many/most people have experienced.

WookieMan says

Shaman says

Ukraine is losing quite badly. Best estimates put their dead at almost 300,000 soldiers with at least that number wounded.

And? This is a fucking bar fight for no legitimate reason. Until one side admits they were the idiot this will drag on. Unfortunately both sides are idiots. We're just buying one idiot a couple beers or vodkas to drag the fight out. This is the war. Russia was insecure that someone was hitting on their girlfriend and it escalated to this. Now the friends of the girl are coming in with guns blazing. Or at least handing them guns. That's a real world depiction of this war that many/most people have experienced.

The problem is we are edging closer and closer to a hot war.And if it comes to that, I sure as hell dont want Lets go Brandon at the wheel.

And we are literally paying billions for it.

RayAmerica says

Nomograph says

RayAmerica says

Is Ukraine worth risking World War III???

Well said, Neville.

Question: How is Ukraine, one of the most corrupt nations on earth, a threat to our national interests?

you know this got me thinking. is ukraine more corrupt than us? lately im not sure if that answer is clear. have witnessed too much corruption.

Maybe there will be a Coup in Ukraine and WW III can be avoided? We can only hope ...

Zelensky, not Putin, is increasingly threatened by the prospect of a palace coup

Engaged in a continuing Great Purge against top officials, the authoritarian Ukrainian president finds himself with fewer and fewer allies where it matters.

From the article:

He’s got the Uniparty in Washington, D.C. on his side, coupled with the international globalists in the robust World Economic Forum-attached network, along with the public-private asset management behemoth financiers in BlackRock and co, and another heavy line of credit through the IMF-World Bank group.

Domestically, it’s an entirely different story. The Ukrainian people are suffering greatly under Zelensky, with mandatory conscription and half the country’s land mass now exposed to the horrors and bombardment of an indefinite war footing. Kiev once pursued neutrality and embraced its role as a buffer state as the functioning gold standard for geopolitical relations. Now, at the insistence of the western ruling class, Ukraine has committed realpolitik seppuku and has become fiercely antagonistic to its more powerful neighbor.

More here:
https://dossier.substack.com/p/zelensky-not-putin-is-increasingly

Biden isn't capable of running in this complicated game as said above ^ The world uni-party is going to get blind sided by the chi-coms and their ilk. The US is focused on global unity lol

socal2 says

richwicks says

They always, always, always, every fucking time, tell the most outrageous lies.

Is it not the most "outrageous lie" of them all to claim Ukraine is filled with Neo-Nazis threatening Russian sovereign territory - hence the need for a full blown war and hundreds of thousands of dead human beings?

That's not why Russia is at war with Ukraine.

Russia is at war with Ukraine, because Ukraine won't remain neutral. Russia has been EXTREMELY clear on this for 8 years. Beyond that, but FAR LESS RELEVANT is that Ukraine is in civil war and it's between the Ukrainian population and the Ethnic Russian population.

FURTHERMORE, it was the West claiming that Ukraine had a Neo-Nazi problem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/opinion/what-ukraines-jews-fear.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/world/europe/02history.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/02/neo-nazi-groups-recruit-britons-to-fight-in-ukraine

Those are the same assholes telling you why there's a war now and calling Putin Putler.

When I say the're FUCKING LIARS, I mean it. You'll go CRAZY listening to these assholes and believing anything they say. They'll never, ever stop lying to you.

socal2 says

Again - please tell me what the "threat" NATO expansion was on Russia other than keeping Russia within their internationally recognized borders?

The US is trying to prevent Russia from trading energy with Europe. They are trying to institute regime change within Russia.

Those threats.

WookieMan says

NATO wants nothing to do with Russia. There's nothing there and Westerners are not going in for gas and oil because it's cold as fuck and no one likes vodka generally. They were happy buying the gas and oil from Russia or the ME.

Well, what a waste it was then to blow up the Nordstream pipelines. I mean, nobody wanted it and they were all happy getting it from the Middle East...

Instead of all the bullshit back-and-forth on this thread, can we all just look at the title and agree, we don't want WWIII, and we won't support one. Fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia, fuck Europe, and fuck our government. No war!

NuttBoxer says

Instead of all the bullshit back-and-forth on this thread, can we all just look at the title and agree, we don't want WWIII, and we won't support one. Fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia, fuck Europe, and fuck our government. No war!

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

richwicks says

The US is trying to prevent Russia from trading energy with Europe. They are trying to institute regime change within Russia.

Those threats.

After the pipeline explosion Secretary Blinken said it was a great opportunity for the USA to sell LNG to Germany.

Right now Russia is getting by with selling natural gas and oil to India and China, albeit at lower prices than if it was to sell to the European Union.

Russia's economy is still holding up and has not collapsed like some forecasted.

Look at natural gas prices. Propane is back to 2019 levels, for example. So Europe did not suffer too much from very high gas prices.

.

The ongoing expansion of the Ukraine conflict ...

Mass Drone Attack Unleashes Chaos, Air Raid Sirens Inside Russia

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mass-drone-attack-unleashes-chaos-air-raid-sirens-inside-russia

socal2 says

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

socal2 says

Agreed - that is why I keep pointing out the quickest way to end the war and avert WWIII is for Putin to end his illegal invasion and bring his troops home.

There is no conceivable "win" for Russia that doesn't involve MANY more dead on all sides and further world instability.

Whereas a Ukrainian "win" (Russia leaving and going back to status quo ante) would end the violence and world instability overnight.

Would be awesome if it were just that simple, but if that were true, war never would have started. If you want a more balanced view, check out antiwar.com

NuttBoxer says

Would be awesome if it were just that simple, but if that were true, war never would have started.

It is that simple.

Every other option is much more complicated and risks much more death and escalation.

Russia has to face the fact that they failed in their mission in the first month of the war by failing to topple Kiev and the central government. Russia has no hope of achieving their original goals now. Through Russia's incompetence and barbarity, they have alienated (or killed?) the remaining ethnic pro-Russian population that Putin claimed he cared so much about necessitating this useless war that has gotten hundreds of thousands of people killed.

So what is driving all this now - other than one man's vanity?

Fight for America's Ladies!

We've sent a never ending supply of MONEY and war material, but that's not enough. Not for Zelensky, that is. Now he's asking for American blood.

Zelensky Said What? “The U.S. Will Have to Send Their Sons and Daughters” and “They Will Be Dying”

https://redwave.press/zelensky-said-what-the-u-s-will-have-to-send-their-sons-and-daughters-and-they-will-be-dying/

socal2 says

Russia has to face the fact that they failed in their mission in the first month of the war by failing to topple Kiev and the central government. Russia has no hope of achieving their original goals now. Through Russia's incompetence and barbarity, they have alienated (or killed?) the remaining ethnic pro-Russian population that Putin claimed he cared so much about necessitating this useless war that has gotten hundreds of thousands of people killed.

Pretty good summary. I'm not pro either nation. Frankly it seems like someone gave toddlers bottles of vodka in the sand box. Everyone's hands are dirty on this war. It's 100% unnecessary. And before idiots start bringing up our wars, this Ukraine/Russia conflict is exponentially worse on an exponential scale because it's run by idiots.

We lost less people in Afghanistan than Chicago over the same period. I suppose it was cheaper for the domestic killing versus Afghanistan, but this Russia/Ukraine war is awful for both sides. Europeans are pussies (NATO). I don't think our government has the gumption to throw our citizens at it, just weapons to Ukrainians. This escalates and expands to the Polish border though, Russia gets smoked and they know it. There's no sense in any of it.

The only net positive is I'm sure we're continuing to make weapons and people have jobs. And our young adults aren't dying in a drunken war so far. No one has been a true aggressor to Russia in a while. It's all rhetoric. They have oil and gas they can sell and Europe or the US seemingly have ZERO intentions of invading/attacking Russia. Basically this is stupid.

RayAmerica says

We've sent a never ending supply of MONEY and war material, but that's not enough. Not for Zelensky, that is. Now he's asking for American blood.

Zelensky Said What? “The U.S. Will Have to Send Their Sons and Daughters” and “They Will Be Dying”

https://redwave.press/zelensky-said-what-the-u-s-will-have-to-send-their-sons-and-daughters-and-they-will-be-dying/

If you watch his entire statement, he is clearly talking about if Russia wins in Ukraine and then starts attacking neighboring NATO countries - then the US would have an obligation to send troops to protect NATO countries.

Step by step, the escalation continues ...

Cross-Border 'Terror Attack' On Russia Involved Dozens Of Armed (Ukrainian) Saboteurs Attacking Villages

Russian presidency spokesman Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said militants entered the Bryansk Oblast in Western Russia and attacked villages there, resulting in the death of one civilian and another wounded. "This is an attack by terrorists," Peskov said.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cross-border-terror-attack-russia-involved-dozens-armed-saboteurs-attacking-villages

PS: The day is coming when Ukraine uses one of its American supplied weapons against Russian civilians, which could conceivably lead to retaliatory attacks upon American targets. We are witnessing the process of incrementalism that leads to the start of major wars.

Mark this day down in history. An NBC reporter actually states the truth regarding Zelensky's insane stated goal to attack Crimea:

NBC Reporter Goes To Crimea, Shocks Viewers By Telling The Truth (video)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/msnbc-reporter-goes-crimea-shocks-viewers-telling-truth

RayAmerica says

PS: The day is coming when Ukraine uses one of its American supplied weapons against Russian civilians, which could conceivably lead to retaliatory attacks upon American targets. We are witnessing the process of incrementalism that leads to the start of major wars.

Yes this leads to a major war. No we will not be attacked by Russia. No nukes. No attacks on US bases or territories. They don't have the capability. All their conflicts have been on the same land mass as long as there been a USSR or Russia.

I don't trust our DOD, but there's no chance Russia advances on the US when they can't even take out a Texas sized country that is mostly fields and a few big cities and suburban sized towns that are mostly shit anyway. Much of their weapons have already been destroyed. They have submarines, but I highly doubt they're active and working. They have literally no offensive capability. They could be launching missiles from subs today. They can't. They're a drunk, brut force country. They have no attack capabilities that aren't from the WWII era.

Apparently that reporter is now on a Ukrainian hit list!? No link to actual site, so take this with a grain of salt:
https://twitter3e4tixl4xyajtrzo62zg5vztmjuricljdp2c5kshju4avyoid.onion/MaxBlumenthal/status/1631124426463879171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Yes, it's an onion link, it's what I use.

socal2 says

Russia has legitimate rights to their former Commie Slave colonies they occupied after WWII

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union before WW2.
Crimea was part of Russia since 1922. Before that the Crimean Peninsula was a perennial battleground. .
What do you suppose the Bidens were doing in Ukraine before Russia invaded?

socal2 says

Russia getting double-crossed by their Nazi allies, is in no way a legitimate excuse for Russia being the aggressor again in Ukraine 80 years later!

You meant Soviet Union.

Russia has legitimate reasons to stop the neoconservative envelopement of their country.

Funny how Hillary was beating the war drums against Russia in 2016, then peace for 4 years. Now that Biden the corrupt (senior) is in power we're at war with Russia.

cisTits says

Onvacation says

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union before WW2.

And a big chunk of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire before that.

Who gives a shit? Texas was part of Mexico. Also ever hear of the Louisiana purchase? Should the French now attack us? That's the same logic. I swear to god the retard pills are in circulation of late here. AND I give no shits about Ukraine or Russia. Let them kill each other. Let's manufacture weapons that create jobs stateside. As long as we're not losing enlisted men it's a win win outside of the money. Russia is toast long term regardless.

WookieMan says

AND I give no shits about Ukraine or Russia. Let them kill each other. Let's manufacture weapons that create jobs stateside. As long as we're not losing enlisted men it's a win win outside of the money.

You do know that makes the world worse for everyone? All of the money that goes into Ukraine could be used in the United States. Manufacturing weapons means we manufacture less consumer goods. Wars are inflationary. Refugees lower the standard of living. Not to mention the environmental damage modern weapons of war cause.

The same globalist that are trying to kill or enslave us are the ones fighting in Ukraine against Russia. Trump was impeached for trying to investigate what was going on. Many of our politicians and their families have become rich over Ukrainian corruption.

We should have no interest in Ukraine. The real war, for liberty and freedom, is right here in America.

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Amazing.

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

socal2 says

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Russia is toast long term regardless.

That's neocon thinking. Can't we just get along?

Amazing.

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

No.

The United States overthrew Ukraine. This entire situation is PRECISELY what the United States wanted, right down to controlling Russia's ability to send energy to Europe.

This war could have been easily prevented, and it wasn't, because the puppets the CIA put in power were ordered to encourage it.

Want to prevent future wars? Just send all the Neocons to prison. There, we'll FINALLY have a peace dividend.

cisTits says

WookieMan says

Who gives a shit?

Exactly my point. social2 apparently does.

I care in that I don't want to see needless death and world instability because Russia is so fucking incompetent getting hundreds of thousands of people killed in their failed war.

Some folks here only seem to care and support Russia's illegal invasion to punish Ukraine for being a money laundering playground of US Democrats.

As much as I loathe the Democrats, I would never in a million years cheer on fucking Putin's Russia to succeed in an illegal and total cock-up of an invasion that has gotten so many people killed.

socal2 says

Shouldn't that be directed at Putin?

Do you deny that the west started this war?

Why do the neocons want to strangle Russia?

the goal was ultimately to create the conditions for regime change in Russia. By “overextending and unbalancing” Russia in the military, economic and diplomatic spheres the U.S. could realistically hope to replace the Russian state with one of its own choosing, as it had done with Ukraine.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/6-reasons-the-neocons-in-the-west-wanted-this-war-with-russia/

richwicks says

This entire situation is PRECISELY what the United States wanted, right down to controlling Russia's ability to send energy to Europe.

Ah - America pulling all the strings?

The geniuses in the Biden (and former Obama) administration goaded Russia into launching a massive invasion and fighting a losing battle for over a year?

Russia is too stupid and just playing along like a little pawn?

Onvacation says

Do you deny that the west started this war?

The war started a year ago when Russia foolishly invaded Ukraine with 200,000+ troops.

Oh, are you talking about the "Cold War"?

How far back are we going to go to justify Russia's illegal invasion?