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Housing: A word from our long lost Buddy, Logan Mahtashami


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2023 Mar 25, 9:26pm   798 views  19 comments

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Existing home sales have gone down consistently every month for an entire year now. Inventory has also been at historic lows. While today’s data may be good news for the industry, it comes against a fresh backdrop of bank collapse and general recession anxiety.

Robert Padilla and his wife Patricia have been looking for a house to buy in Santa Fe, New Mexico, for about a year.

“It’s just the two of us, but we have family that we’d like they come down to visit us,” Padilla said. “So we wanted a three bedroom, two bath.”

But there hasn’t been much to look at in their price range — which is about $350,000. Padilla works as a security guard for public schools. The houses they’ve seen have been disappointing.

Okay, how much can a security guard make at a public school in New Mexico. $50K? Hold off, man!



“The roofs are leaking,” he said. “They’ve had animals living in there. chickens. I mean we just can’t do that.”

If mortgage rates were lower, Padilla says they’d be able to look at nicer houses. Rates have come down from their high of more than 7% last November. But with rates around 6.5%, buying is out of reach for many home shoppers.

It’s all a bit of a negative feedback loop between buyers and sellers, says Selma Hepp, chief economist at CoreLogic.

“Both sides think it’s a bad time to buy and it’s a bad time to sell,” Hepp said. “And so both are sitting on the sidelines.”

According to her, this trend has been worsening. “Both attribute it to higher mortgage rates,” Hepp said.

And now there’s the uncertainty of a banking crisis to factor in. “A lot of the expectation is that mortgage rates may again go up, and that we will see a tightening of lending conditions,” she said.

Hepp also points to consumer sentiment being low as an obstacle. Logan Mohtashami, a lead analyst for HousingWire, agrees.

“A friend of mine that works in the lending industry, told me that a homebuyer just took all the money out of out of their bank, because they were afraid that the bank was gonna go under,” Mohtashami said. “They said, ‘We don’t want to even buy a house, we just don’t want to lose our money.'”


But Mohtashami and other analysts do see a flicker of hope for the housing market going forward.

“Rates may decrease even further in the coming weeks depending on reactions to the financial market,” said Nadia Evangelou, a senior economist for the National Association of Realtors, the group that releases the monthly home sales reports.

Evangelou said she is cautiously optimistic because contract signings rose significantly for the second straight month and that’s a good indicator for home sales. But like many analysts and would-be home buyers and sellers — she’s holding her breath for the federal reserve’s next move.

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/03/21/after-banking-crisis-the-housing-market-faces-even-more-uncertainty/

Comments 1 - 19 of 19        Search these comments

1   AD   2023 Mar 25, 9:40pm  

Look at the dot plot that the Federal Reserve published recently. Its a plot of expected or forecasted Fed Funds rate.

The average rate for 2023 is 5.5% in the plot, and it is 4% in 2024. Longterm they expect the Fed Funds rate at 2.5% which shows they want to keep it at least 0.5% above their 2% inflation target.

A Fed Funds rate at 4%, that likely means the 30 year mortgage rate will drop from currently 6.5% to around 5.25%.

For every 1% increase in the 30 year mortgage rate there is a 10% drop in price; figure that peak prices were set around a 3.5% rate, so the median home price needs to drop about 15% to 20% with a 30 yr mortgage rate of 5.5%.

I think this +20% drop is what the Fed wants as it bring prices closer to late 2020 price levels.

All of this is the Establishment's effort to prop up the economy in the 2024 election cycle.
3   AD   2023 Mar 25, 9:43pm  

Also, there is mention the husband makes $50,000 (?) as a public school security guard.

Multiply that by 4 and he should qualify for a $200,000 mortgage in today's interest rate environment.

I suspect the wife works, so combined household income is at least $85,000. So that would qualify them for $350,000 which the article says is their price range.
4   Eman   2023 Mar 25, 10:14pm  

ad says





Actually, the dot plot suggests 5.1% for 2023 so maximum is another 0.25% hike this year. About 100% bps lower for 2024 and another 100 bps or more lower for 2025.

The Fed is in a really tough spot right now. They have to contain inflation while not blowing up the banking system. Every 25 bps increase = more unrealized losses on the banks’ balance sheet.
5   AD   2023 Mar 25, 10:22pm  

Eman says

the dot plot suggests 5.1% for 2023


I was conservative in my observations of that dot plot; but it is closer to 5.25%. I rounded that to 5.5%. I rather be cautious and conservative in matters like this.

Yes, the Fed has been losing money also with these basis points increases as it sells of its assets via quantitative tightening. Silicon Valley Bank lost significantly with long term Treasuries as the Fed Funds rate went from 0.25% (which was Obama's rate for 7 out of 8 years) to 4.75%. Also, just look Vanguard Total Bond Fund etf; it dropped about 23% from its late 2020 peak.
.


6   AD   2023 Mar 25, 10:52pm  

Eman says


The Fed is in a really tough spot right now. They have to contain inflation while not blowing up the banking system.


They could increase it 0.25% or 25 bps and then hold steady. CPI was around 9.2% and now is 6%. Powell's and the Fed's strategy is working as CPI will drop below 5% no later then this September. The stock market already has priced in a Fed Funds rate of 5.25%.

.
7   Eman   2023 Mar 25, 11:09pm  

ad says

Eman says



The Fed is in a really tough spot right now. They have to contain inflation while not blowing up the banking system.


They could increase it 0.25% or 25 bps and then hold steady. CPI was around 9.2% and now is 6%. Powell's and the Fed's strategy is working as CPI will drop below 5% no later then this September. The stock market already has priced in a Fed Funds rate of 5.25%.

.

I agree. I really like this Charlie Bilello. He presents data and facts. All in all, the data and history suggest inflation will likely come down in the 2nd half of this year. The Fed’s rate hiking mission is almost complete.

https://twitter.com/charliebilello/status/1638895751324483589?t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q&ref_src=patrick.net

8   Eman   2023 Mar 25, 11:10pm  

This is similar to the dot plot that you shared above, but in a graph format. A picture is worth a thousand words.



https://twitter.com/charliebilello/status/1639236076916072449?t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q&ref_src=patrick.net
9   RWSGFY   2023 Mar 25, 11:13pm  

WTF, hasn't he announced his early retirement last year?
10   AD   2023 Mar 25, 11:22pm  

Eman says

This is similar to the dot plot that you shared above, but in a graph format. A picture is worth a thousand words.


I don't see the Fed cutting rates in 2023. The market is overly optimistic as far as Fed pivot occurring that early. Its going to take at least to August or September of this year for CPI to drop below the Fed Funds rate. And I don't see unemployment significantly increasing in 2023 to cause alarm within the FOMC.

.
11   GNL   2023 Mar 26, 8:55am  

Can someone please tell me why rates have "historically" been 7 - 8% when inflation wasn't that high?
12   GNL   2023 Mar 26, 8:56am  

If they go down to 2 - 3% again, why? Are they trying to spur inflation again?
13   AD   2023 Mar 26, 10:28am  

GNL says

Can someone please tell me why rates have "historically" been 7 - 8% when inflation wasn't that high?


That was a different era. Notice after the early 1980s how "growth stocks" (and not dividend-paying or value stocks) have become the rage in investing ?

That means interest rates need to be tampered to allow ease with borrowing money by "growth companies" like new technology companies.

That is why you may have noticed that interest rates have been restrained since the 1980s.

Also innovation like robotics and the internet have lowered prices through productivity, as well as free trade.

Look at how automobile manufacturing has modernized such as robotic paint booths.

Also quality management (ie.. Six Sigma, Total Quality Management, etc.) have been the rage as far as productivity gains and driving down labor hours per unit.

This has kept inflation down, and therefore interest rates remain low.

Since the 1980s, free trade, less blue collar union participation, and computers/ automation / robotics have had their effects.

,
14   AD   2023 Mar 26, 10:32am  

GNL says

If they go down to 2 - 3% again, why? Are they trying to spur inflation again?


I think they anticipate inflation will reach their goal of 2% and they will set the Fed Funds rate equal to inflation or just above inflation.

Notice during Obama's 7 out of 8 years in office that the Fed Funds rate was 0.25% while inflation was only around 1.5% to 2%.

I think there were various factors why inflation was relatively low during those 7 years such as the economy was slowly crawling out of a deflationary spiral (ie.., Great Recession), free trade with Mexico, China, etc. was keeping prices down, Obama did not target oil and natural gas, there was an excess inventory of cheaper homes, etc.

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16   HeadSet   2023 Sep 5, 8:26am  

zzyzzx says

Logan on CNBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHJ3lK03Nw0

Let's see how his predictions pan out. Logan claiming a "great economy" right now makes me suspect he is just talking his book. I noticed that in the last few weeks house prices in the gated communities around me are now dropping at $15,000 to $20,000 increments.
17   GNL   2023 Sep 5, 8:32am  

Well, Logan was certainly correct. What I can't understand is 1. How did all experts miss the 08 debacle? 2. Peter Schiff was right in 08 but wrong now? 3. Why does he say rates coming down is the only way to get RE sales up? 4. Are incomes really matching home price appreciation? 5. How can one expert say the economy is strong and another say the economy is weak?
18   stfu   2023 Sep 5, 8:45am  

My only criticism of Logan is that his models do not allow for the possibility that the 'official' numbers coming out of the BOL are legit. His predictions are (in some part) based on the employment figures and the 10 yr. yield. So far every employment number this year has been revised downwards 2 or 3 months after the fact.

I guess this really isn't a criticism of Logan. After all, 'garbage in - garbage out'.
19   mell   2023 Sep 5, 8:45am  

GNL says

Well, Logan was certainly correct. What I can't understand is 1. How did all experts miss the 08 debacle? 2. Peter Schiff was right in 08 but wrong now? 3. Why does he say rates coming down is the only way to get RE sales up? 4. Are incomes really matching home price appreciation? 5. How can one expert say the economy is strong and another say the economy is weak?

The reason ther me isn't a crash is that many bought at cheap rates and won't (need to) sell. I agree with Logan it's just a sluggish stalemate. The economy however is much worsen than they (both) paint it, xidenomics has wrecked it. Plenty of people long term unemployed, even in tech. Wages not going up, they are actually going down in tech, even nominally, or flat at best.

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