Colonizing Mars Has Exciting Possibilities
invite response
2023 Apr 5, 4:31am 1,885 views 34 comments
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1
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:36am
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:36am
That's pure fantasy Jack.. The follow up mission to Mars after the first maned mission, will be a robotic recovery of dead bodies.
That's if the first manned mission ever makes it there in the first place. Turns out Jack space travel is pure fantasy, the stuff of Gene Roddenberry's head.
Sure we jump in a capsule and take a spin around the yard for a joyride. But we're not getting out on the highway for a long road trip.
That's if the first manned mission ever makes it there in the first place. Turns out Jack space travel is pure fantasy, the stuff of Gene Roddenberry's head.
Sure we jump in a capsule and take a spin around the yard for a joyride. But we're not getting out on the highway for a long road trip.
2
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 7:24am
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 7:24am
Imagine the biggest structure you can think of, built to whatever specifications you wish. You can populate it with whatever manner of flora or fauna you wish and it will be created.
But you must spend your entire life in this structure.
That's what a colony on Mars would be like, at it's BEST - also at 1/3rd gravity.
People who think they would want to live on Mars, haven't considered what a hell it would be.
But you must spend your entire life in this structure.
That's what a colony on Mars would be like, at it's BEST - also at 1/3rd gravity.
People who think they would want to live on Mars, haven't considered what a hell it would be.
3
RayAmerica
2023 Apr 5, 7:38am
RayAmerica
2023 Apr 5, 7:38am
Me thinks you've been watching far too many Star Trek episodes. The whole thing is extremely 'illogical.'
4
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 7:46am
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 7:46am
Tenpoundbass says
Oh, we could. We'd need centrifuges to simulate gravity, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and it wouldn't amount to much in terms of science or knowledge, but we could.
There's just no reason to do it. The only people that want to do this are the naive that are experiencing the hangover of the propaganda of the 1960's, or the insane that haven't really thought it out.
What would be so wonderful about settling on another planet, when the entire environment is deadly to you? The Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station is right at the very tip of the South Pole, and that exists for (some limited) research. It's probably really an psychology test for a off planet colonization. The people there consume far too much alcohol, and there's been one apparent murder, possibly suicide. The victim, Rodney Marks, died of wood alcohol poisoning. If the accounts of his last few days are accurate, he was murdered or perhaps he accidentally poisoned himself. He was an astrophysicist.
Sure we jump in a capsule and take a spin around the yard for a joyride. But we're not getting out on the highway for a long road trip.
Oh, we could. We'd need centrifuges to simulate gravity, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and it wouldn't amount to much in terms of science or knowledge, but we could.
There's just no reason to do it. The only people that want to do this are the naive that are experiencing the hangover of the propaganda of the 1960's, or the insane that haven't really thought it out.
What would be so wonderful about settling on another planet, when the entire environment is deadly to you? The Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station is right at the very tip of the South Pole, and that exists for (some limited) research. It's probably really an psychology test for a off planet colonization. The people there consume far too much alcohol, and there's been one apparent murder, possibly suicide. The victim, Rodney Marks, died of wood alcohol poisoning. If the accounts of his last few days are accurate, he was murdered or perhaps he accidentally poisoned himself. He was an astrophysicist.
5
clambo
2023 Apr 5, 8:05am
Make it a prison colony, like the Roach Motel; you can never leave.
I remember the Twilight Zone episode where a guy was alone on some planet as his punishment for a crime; they sent him a female robot to keep him company.
I think Elon talks about this stuff so he can get money to build ever larger rockets; nobody wants to live where there is nothing to see.
Why not just build an insulated igloo in Boron, CA and refrigerate it in the summer and watch endless Netflix, occasionally gazing outside at the awful heat shimmering off the ground?
I remember the Twilight Zone episode where a guy was alone on some planet as his punishment for a crime; they sent him a female robot to keep him company.
I think Elon talks about this stuff so he can get money to build ever larger rockets; nobody wants to live where there is nothing to see.
Why not just build an insulated igloo in Boron, CA and refrigerate it in the summer and watch endless Netflix, occasionally gazing outside at the awful heat shimmering off the ground?
6
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 8:11am
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 8:11am
clambo says
The Lonely, 1959 - Season 1, Episode 7.
I never got to see the original Twilight Zone until I was in my 30's. I've got a copy of the episode if you want it.
You can re-experience it as a radio drama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY09bFIn2DE
Yeah, they did radio dramas of the original series, the entire series, and then some.
I remember the Twilight Zone episode where a guy was alone on some planet as his punishment for a crime; they sent him a female robot to keep him company.
The Lonely, 1959 - Season 1, Episode 7.
I never got to see the original Twilight Zone until I was in my 30's. I've got a copy of the episode if you want it.
You can re-experience it as a radio drama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY09bFIn2DE
Yeah, they did radio dramas of the original series, the entire series, and then some.
7
clambo
2023 Apr 5, 8:22am
I was a little kid and watched the shows when they came out.
For years, we watched the reruns on TV too.
The show made an impact on my young mind, but I was able to appreciate them entirely.
Many episodes were about nuclear destruction or it's aftermath; I was definitely affected by those episodes.
I can see many parallels to some Twilight Zone episodes since the pandemic.
If Rod Serling were alive today, I think he would be annoyed about the censorship of Facebook, Twitter, etc. and the lies by Fauci and others.
For years, we watched the reruns on TV too.
The show made an impact on my young mind, but I was able to appreciate them entirely.
Many episodes were about nuclear destruction or it's aftermath; I was definitely affected by those episodes.
I can see many parallels to some Twilight Zone episodes since the pandemic.
If Rod Serling were alive today, I think he would be annoyed about the censorship of Facebook, Twitter, etc. and the lies by Fauci and others.
8
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 8:26am
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 8:26am
richwicks says
You'll need much more than that. And a Centrifuge is not analogous to gravity. There's also the exposure to Gama rays, radiation and particles so small they pass right through the space craft, at thousands of miles per hour, damaging your DNA in the process. The only way to shield against that is an atmosphere and magnetic field like you see on a planet. An interplanetary craft would have to have much more mass, than a simple metal structure fashioned in a flimsy vehicle. It would take a rock or metal chunk of mass at least 1/3 the size of the moon, with a magnetic core. Even that thought exercise, is a pure fantasy in execution.
Oh, we could. We'd need centrifuges to simulate gravity, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and it wouldn't amount to much in terms of science or knowledge, but we could.
You'll need much more than that. And a Centrifuge is not analogous to gravity. There's also the exposure to Gama rays, radiation and particles so small they pass right through the space craft, at thousands of miles per hour, damaging your DNA in the process. The only way to shield against that is an atmosphere and magnetic field like you see on a planet. An interplanetary craft would have to have much more mass, than a simple metal structure fashioned in a flimsy vehicle. It would take a rock or metal chunk of mass at least 1/3 the size of the moon, with a magnetic core. Even that thought exercise, is a pure fantasy in execution.
9
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 8:45am
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 8:45am
Tenpoundbass says
Not if you make the centrifuge large enough. We experience Coriolis effects as the world turns, but over the course of 24 hours. Make a big enough centrifuge and centripedal force would be identical to gravity. If we experienced Coriolis effects over the course of a minute, or even 30 seconds, would we notice it, would we adjust to it? Who knows.
Tenpoundbass says
We can build shields for this. Like I said, we CAN do this, but it might be astronomically expensive to do it. Maybe a ship would have to be covered in 20 feet of lead - get THAT shit into space.
Tenpoundbass says
Radiation... Yes, indeed... You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you? Pernicious nonsense! Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too.
When they cancelled the project, it almost did me in. One day my mind was full to bursting. The next day - nothing! Swept away! But I'll show them. I had a lobotomy in the end!!
richwicks says
Oh, we could. We'd need centrifuges to simulate gravity, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and it wouldn't amount to much in terms of science or knowledge, but we could.
You'll need much more than that. And a Centrifuge is not analogous to gravity.
Not if you make the centrifuge large enough. We experience Coriolis effects as the world turns, but over the course of 24 hours. Make a big enough centrifuge and centripedal force would be identical to gravity. If we experienced Coriolis effects over the course of a minute, or even 30 seconds, would we notice it, would we adjust to it? Who knows.
Tenpoundbass says
There's also the exposure to Gama rays, radiation and particles so small they pass right through the space craft, at thousands of miles per hour, damaging your DNA in the process.
We can build shields for this. Like I said, we CAN do this, but it might be astronomically expensive to do it. Maybe a ship would have to be covered in 20 feet of lead - get THAT shit into space.
Tenpoundbass says
The only way to shield against that is an atmosphere and magnetic field like you see on a planet. An interplanetary craft would have to have much more mass, than a simple metal structure fashioned in a flimsy vehicle. It would take a rock or metal chunk of mass at least 1/3 the size of the moon, with a magnetic core. Even that thought exercise, is a pure fantasy in execution.
Radiation... Yes, indeed... You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you? Pernicious nonsense! Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too.
When they cancelled the project, it almost did me in. One day my mind was full to bursting. The next day - nothing! Swept away! But I'll show them. I had a lobotomy in the end!!
11
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 11:35am
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 11:35am
richwicks says
Gravity is NOT a Centrifugal force. It is caused by a Mass being so great that electrons from smaller objects around it are attracted to it. That fused entanglement of positively and negatively charged atoms pulling and pushing at each other. We pull the Earth to us as much as the Earth pulls us to it.
Gravity is not just pulling us down, it is pulling us to center the nucleolus of the Earth. And since Earth is not perfectly flat, that down isn't always straight down, it is bent or not as forceful in other parts of the planet. The only thing a Centrifuge does, is serve as simile to demonstrate what Gravity is doing to mass, without taking into account the counter lift that smaller mass being attracted to the larger mass gives back. For a science class model that works fine, but for biology, physics and how simple lifeforms created complex lifeforms, it matters a lot. Where as spinning is actually the opposite of gravity. Where as the thing holding you back, is only keeping you from being flung out. It's the opposite of an attraction. If the tether holding you back breaks you fling out in space. Where as there is no stopping large mass attracting smaller mass. Even if the Earth Stopped rotating, gravity would not be affected.
Two baseballs placed in space 1 meter apart would attract to each other in only a few weeks. The opposite of being flung away.
Not if you make the centrifuge large enough. We experience Coriolis effects as the world turns, but over the course of 24 hours. Make a big enough centrifuge and centripetal force would be identical to gravity. If we experienced Coriolis effects over the course of a minute, or even 30 seconds, would we notice it, would we adjust to it? Who knows.
Gravity is NOT a Centrifugal force. It is caused by a Mass being so great that electrons from smaller objects around it are attracted to it. That fused entanglement of positively and negatively charged atoms pulling and pushing at each other. We pull the Earth to us as much as the Earth pulls us to it.
Gravity is not just pulling us down, it is pulling us to center the nucleolus of the Earth. And since Earth is not perfectly flat, that down isn't always straight down, it is bent or not as forceful in other parts of the planet. The only thing a Centrifuge does, is serve as simile to demonstrate what Gravity is doing to mass, without taking into account the counter lift that smaller mass being attracted to the larger mass gives back. For a science class model that works fine, but for biology, physics and how simple lifeforms created complex lifeforms, it matters a lot. Where as spinning is actually the opposite of gravity. Where as the thing holding you back, is only keeping you from being flung out. It's the opposite of an attraction. If the tether holding you back breaks you fling out in space. Where as there is no stopping large mass attracting smaller mass. Even if the Earth Stopped rotating, gravity would not be affected.
Two baseballs placed in space 1 meter apart would attract to each other in only a few weeks. The opposite of being flung away.
12
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 11:45am
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 11:45am
Woo says Mars is already occupado by aliens. Get your phasers and light sabers ready.
13
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 12:38pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 12:38pm
Tenpoundbass says
True, but both act like a force. If one lived in a large spinning "bicycle wheel" spaceship, the correct speed of spin would produce a 1g force for anyone walking on the inside of the outer rim. That would simulate Earth's gravity. Of course, everything out the window would be spinning in your perspective.
Gravity is NOT a Centrifugal force.
True, but both act like a force. If one lived in a large spinning "bicycle wheel" spaceship, the correct speed of spin would produce a 1g force for anyone walking on the inside of the outer rim. That would simulate Earth's gravity. Of course, everything out the window would be spinning in your perspective.
14
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 12:42pm
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 12:42pm
HeadSet says
Yeah but I'm wagering it takes a lot more than that to sustain our human molecular structure. 1G is just a counter measurement against what Gravity is doing.
True, but both act like a force. If one lived in a large spinning "bicycle wheel" spaceship, the correct speed of spin would produce a 1g force for anyone walking on the inside of the outer rim.
Yeah but I'm wagering it takes a lot more than that to sustain our human molecular structure. 1G is just a counter measurement against what Gravity is doing.
18
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 4:46pm
Ask and thou shalt receive
https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1940365HeadSet says
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 4:46pm
What, no 3 titted woman?
Ask and thou shalt receive
https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1940365HeadSet says
19
socal2
2023 Apr 5, 5:03pm
I think the first 20+ years of Mars "colonization" will be done mostly by Tesla robots and boring machines. Humans will live on Mars for short stints mostly underground.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
20
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 5:05pm
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 5:05pm
socal2 says
Planetary Colonization is vastly overplayed.
Makes more sense to hollow out an asteroid or use low G planets to build big structures.
The most important thing about getting off the Earth is to eliminate the possibility that all humanity will be dominated by a NWO and avoiding other Fermi Filters, like a massive asteroid impact or another Siberan Eruption that would be 100x worse than Krakatoa.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
Planetary Colonization is vastly overplayed.
Makes more sense to hollow out an asteroid or use low G planets to build big structures.
The most important thing about getting off the Earth is to eliminate the possibility that all humanity will be dominated by a NWO and avoiding other Fermi Filters, like a massive asteroid impact or another Siberan Eruption that would be 100x worse than Krakatoa.
21
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:09pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:09pm
HeadSet says
I'm just quoting from one of the best films ever made - RepoMan from 1984, by Alex Cox. He's criminally unknown, he did Three Businessmen as well. I recommend both films.
He also did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, bet you heard of that.
I used to be a film buff, and every now and then, I'd trip across somebody that was worthy of recognition - he's one of them.
He's also made complete garbage, Repo Chick was crap - but you might have a different opinion, and that's fine.
richwicks says
I had a lobotomy in the end!!
Most lobotomies are in the head. :-)
I'm just quoting from one of the best films ever made - RepoMan from 1984, by Alex Cox. He's criminally unknown, he did Three Businessmen as well. I recommend both films.
He also did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, bet you heard of that.
I used to be a film buff, and every now and then, I'd trip across somebody that was worthy of recognition - he's one of them.
He's also made complete garbage, Repo Chick was crap - but you might have a different opinion, and that's fine.
22
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:19pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:19pm
I know of course!
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it. Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Tenpoundbass says
NO! We don't know what gravity is. Nobody does. We can see it exists, we don't understand that, and yes, I know we've (supposedly?) found the Higgs boson. We're an amazingly ignorant species. Nobody knows fuck all. We're all fucking stupid and ignorant.
Tenpoundbass says
I'm aware, but it's practically straight down to the center of the Earth. We might be off by a few tiny bits of a 1000th of a degree. This just creates instability, and probably an eventual earthquake.
Tenpoundbass says
It provides acceleration, and a large enough centrifuge is practically indistinguistable from gravity.
Tenpoundbass says
Yes, the Coriolis effect is reversed, upside down. That's it. You're still experiencing constant acceleration.
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it. Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Tenpoundbass says
That fused entanglement of positively and negatively charged atoms pulling and pushing at each other. We pull the Earth to us as much as the Earth pulls us to it.
NO! We don't know what gravity is. Nobody does. We can see it exists, we don't understand that, and yes, I know we've (supposedly?) found the Higgs boson. We're an amazingly ignorant species. Nobody knows fuck all. We're all fucking stupid and ignorant.
Tenpoundbass says
Gravity is not just pulling us down, it is pulling us to center the nucleolus of the Earth. And since Earth is not perfectly flat, that down isn't always straight down, it is bent or not as forceful in other parts of forceful in other parts of the planet.
I'm aware, but it's practically straight down to the center of the Earth. We might be off by a few tiny bits of a 1000th of a degree. This just creates instability, and probably an eventual earthquake.
Tenpoundbass says
The only thing a Centrifuge does, is serve as simile to demonstrate what Gravity is doing to mass, without taking into account the counter lift that smaller mass being attracted to the larger mass gives back.
It provides acceleration, and a large enough centrifuge is practically indistinguistable from gravity.
Tenpoundbass says
Where as spinning is actually the opposite of gravity
Yes, the Coriolis effect is reversed, upside down. That's it. You're still experiencing constant acceleration.
23
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:37pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:37pm
richwicks says
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
richwicks says
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it.
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
richwicks says
Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
24
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:43pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:43pm
HeadSet says
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order. Our sun would not be producing light, it would be producing gamma rays.
HeadSet says
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
richwicks says
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it.
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order. Our sun would not be producing light, it would be producing gamma rays.
HeadSet says
richwicks says
Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
25
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:48pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:48pm
richwicks says
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order.
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
26
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:54pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:54pm
HeadSet says
I do not think that acceleration is equivalent to gravity. I think this is a breakdown and error in General Relativity. They can't be the same because the universe would be continually speeding up from our point of view, and it's not.
Quantum physics and relativity can't be reconciled, because both are wrong. Good models, but they are MODELS. Gravity is some fundamental force or something. We don't know. We simply don't know at this point, maybe we can never know.
richwicks says
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order.
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
I do not think that acceleration is equivalent to gravity. I think this is a breakdown and error in General Relativity. They can't be the same because the universe would be continually speeding up from our point of view, and it's not.
Quantum physics and relativity can't be reconciled, because both are wrong. Good models, but they are MODELS. Gravity is some fundamental force or something. We don't know. We simply don't know at this point, maybe we can never know.
27
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:55pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:55pm
richwicks says
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation? Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation? Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
28
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:00pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:00pm
HeadSet says
Haha, yep! But not ACME, US government - bunch of insane fuckers. Their bullshit works just as well as what Willie E. Coyote purchased..
HeadSet says
It produces a lot of energy, and force = mass x acceleration. It would work as a propulsion system, shoving out radioactive particles to propel it.
It's doable but it was abandoned because (officially) it would have been too detrimental to life on Earth.
richwicks says
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation?
Haha, yep! But not ACME, US government - bunch of insane fuckers. Their bullshit works just as well as what Willie E. Coyote purchased..
HeadSet says
Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
It produces a lot of energy, and force = mass x acceleration. It would work as a propulsion system, shoving out radioactive particles to propel it.
It's doable but it was abandoned because (officially) it would have been too detrimental to life on Earth.
29
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:05pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:05pm
richwicks says
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
It produces a lot of energy, and Force = mass x acceleration.
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
30
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:09pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:09pm
HeadSet says
It works well in an atmosphere, that was the mass.
Like I said, this was fucking insane. This was back when our government did insane things that weren't obviously insane to the general public.
richwicks says
It produces a lot of energy, and Force = mass x acceleration.
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
It works well in an atmosphere, that was the mass.
Like I said, this was fucking insane. This was back when our government did insane things that weren't obviously insane to the general public.
31
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:13pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:13pm
richwicks says
The whole discussion was about use in space. Well, I guess Ralph Cramden can use Orion to really send Alice to the Moon.
It works well in an atmosphere
The whole discussion was about use in space. Well, I guess Ralph Cramden can use Orion to really send Alice to the Moon.
32
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:27pm
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:27pm
Gravity is NOT acceleration. In fact Einstein argued that in free fall you're NOT actually under any forces. Falling off the Empire State Building is indistinguishable aside from breathing air, to free falling in space. Sure you can calculate acceleration to solve other unrelated equations. But once you reach terminal velocity you're not accelerating. In relation to the mass you're being attracted to. In our case the one unit of Gravity. Which would be calculated differently depending the size of the mass' effect on other smaller masses. Like the two baseballs taking a couple weeks to be attracted to each other. Whereas a bowling ball would attract a Ping-Pong ball in hours at one meter away in the vacuum of space.
There's acceleration going on, but acceleration isn't the whole picture. I'm sure a spinning rocket ship might relive some maladies caused by zero gravity, but I bet it wont be enough to mitigate every affliction of an Artificial Travel through space. Rather than having blood in your veins just floating around and going nowhere. Putting them in the Tornado carnival ride is just going to suck their blood down their feet. What are they going to do, a few hours on their feet, then turn upside down and do a few hours on their head?
If we ever develop the technology where we can intercept a large 100 klm Asteroid, and stir it away. Then we could stir it into orbit outside the moon while we figure out how to harness it as a space ship suitable for human space travel. We would have to study what it does to the Earth's tidal flow with the increased gravitational pulls.
It takes Real Estate to travel the galaxy and beyond. You get a hot molten core generating heat, breaking down atoms, creating gasses building an atmosphere. It would be a project span across multiple possibly tens of tens of generations. Like the Pyramids and great structures of antient times were.
Go back look throughout history every great technology developed over generations, not over night. Look at what the TV, Telephone, Electronics, Computers. All of which started development when the Greatest Generation was young, then handed off to the Boomers, and the GenX got it ready for primetime for the Millennials to come along and fuck it all up with just one hand held device.
We're not going to leave a mark on humanity by trying to shoehorn interplanetary space travel into a Whirly Woo. At least not this generation.
There's acceleration going on, but acceleration isn't the whole picture. I'm sure a spinning rocket ship might relive some maladies caused by zero gravity, but I bet it wont be enough to mitigate every affliction of an Artificial Travel through space. Rather than having blood in your veins just floating around and going nowhere. Putting them in the Tornado carnival ride is just going to suck their blood down their feet. What are they going to do, a few hours on their feet, then turn upside down and do a few hours on their head?
If we ever develop the technology where we can intercept a large 100 klm Asteroid, and stir it away. Then we could stir it into orbit outside the moon while we figure out how to harness it as a space ship suitable for human space travel. We would have to study what it does to the Earth's tidal flow with the increased gravitational pulls.
It takes Real Estate to travel the galaxy and beyond. You get a hot molten core generating heat, breaking down atoms, creating gasses building an atmosphere. It would be a project span across multiple possibly tens of tens of generations. Like the Pyramids and great structures of antient times were.
Go back look throughout history every great technology developed over generations, not over night. Look at what the TV, Telephone, Electronics, Computers. All of which started development when the Greatest Generation was young, then handed off to the Boomers, and the GenX got it ready for primetime for the Millennials to come along and fuck it all up with just one hand held device.
We're not going to leave a mark on humanity by trying to shoehorn interplanetary space travel into a Whirly Woo. At least not this generation.
33
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 7:29pm
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 7:29pm
Aliens have decided we are not allowed off our planet because we are motherfuckers. I can't disagree with them. Apparently, we have to release the dynastic hold of the psychopathic Draco Bloodlines. Then, we might be gifted some extra-planetary rapid technology.
Snuff a Satanic dynastic, maybe you'll live long enough to get your own UFO to bop around in.
Snuff a Satanic dynastic, maybe you'll live long enough to get your own UFO to bop around in.
Elena and I have had numerous discussions over the years about the possibility of flying to Mars and living there for the rest of our lives. Elena consistently rejects it. She could not imagine having to live six months in a spacecraft ("a tin can") while in transit to Mars. It was unthinkable for her to live in a place with no vegetation, no trees, no animals. She would not want to wear a spacesuit every time she went outside.
Some years ago, I was at a Mars Society Convention. One of the speakers asked all in the audience who were ready to go to Mars and spend the rest of their lives to stand up. I stood up. To me living on Mars would be an incredible adventure with so many new things to discover including life on the planet. Unfortunately, I am too old for this ever to be a reality.
I was once in a meeting with NASA scientist Chris McKay. He compared Mars to Antarctica. He said that it would never be more than a remote outpost with scientific research stations like McMurdo.
An intrepid man from Holland started an organization called Mars One. His goal was to establish a viable colony on Mars. He got the attention of Lockheed Martin and SpaceX. He got some 200 highly-qualified and educated men and women to sign up to start their lives over again on Mars. I have been in meetings with the founder and a number of people who had signed up for the trip. Sadly, not enough money was raised to get this project off the ground.
As a matter of interest, Elon Musk has the goal to retire on Mars.
Jordan Wright debunked a lot of past theories about colonizing Mars. He pointed out that these settlements would not be "a backwater" for a few research scientists and eccentrics. Rather it would be a dynamic and commercially viable venture. He pointed out several asteroids super rich with all sorts of minerals and rare metals. Mining these asteroids would be administered from the Mars colonies. Major human exploration missions to the moons of Saturn, Jupiter, and the outer planets would be launched from Mars. One could imagine interstellar missions with humans going to other stars beginning at Mars. Mars is a natural launching pad that is superior to Earth in many respects. Here is a fascinating podcast that I urge all of you to watch:
(183) Starship launches 4/10!!! Plus, why SpaceX Mars Colonists will be the richest humans alive! - YouTube